Why isn't he burrowing??

[Toothless]

Toothless has been in his enclosure for about 2 weeks now, and he still has not started a burrow:mad:! Instead he prefers to sleep under the shelf on the bottom level.
The soil does hold a burrow, and I've even started one for him, but still no luck. The soil area has lots of cover, so I doubt he feels exposed.
What else can I do to encourage him to burrow or what things can I look into that I may be doing wrong?
Soil is well tamped down and clumps nicely.

[DeadlyDesires]

you say soil area? what does this mean? forgive me if i forgot about other threads or if you showed a pic i can not remember? im going to assume you have a seperate area just for soil right? how much soil do you have in there? also how large is he? when i got my monitor it took him over 2 weeks to make a borrow... he would just dig "ditches" so to speak and just lay in them lol... other people have also started a borrow for their lizards and say it works but others will tell you that they wont even go in it anyway so its pointless, i've never tried so i dont know if it works but you can try that if you want, other than that, i wouldn't really worry about it, he will dig and go down when he wants. check temps and humidity make sure everything is good, if hes feeding well and everything is right, just let him be. Dont stress..

[Toothless]

The soil area is 4 x 4 feet. Depth ranges from 1.5-2 feet. My guy's approx 2 and a half feet long.
He burrowed in his old enclosure, and he only had a foot of soil in there.
The area he sleeps has about 80% humidity, but I'd feel much better if he was sleeping in the nice, damp dirt where he's supposed to.
Feeding and activity wise he's normal.

[DeadlyDesires]

The soil area is 4 x 4 feet. Depth ranges from 1.5-2 feet. My guy's approx 2 and a half feet long.
He burrowed in his old enclosure, and he only had a foot of soil in there.
The area he sleeps has about 80% humidity, but I'd feel much better if he was sleeping in the nice, damp dirt where he's supposed to.
Feeding and activity wise he's normal.


i wouldn't worry, he is probably adjusting to his new enclosure... it takes longer than 2 weeks to do that for some monitors they are picky about new things in their home. im sure he will start one soon 2 1/2 ft is great! mine at 2 just now.. you could try adding a little more dirt in make it deeper? but im sure he will be fine.. they know when they need moisture and stuff he knows where to find it.. trust their instincts.

[Toothless]

True, I guess he is smart enough to use it if he needs it. I added a bunch of earthworms to the soil as well, thinking it would encourage him to dig, but no luck with that one either.
I don't know exactly what his ToL is, but its at least 2 1/2 feet, and he just finished shedding again. He's about a year old right now.

[DeadlyDesires]

very cool. mine digs for dubias... maybe he doesn't like the half and half enclosure?

[Toothless]

The enclosure's actually three levels, all of which he uses regularly. He explores and walks around on the soil, but just won't dig.

[DeadlyDesires]

The enclosure's actually three levels, all of which he uses regularly. He explores and walks around on the soil, but just won't dig.


i would say to just give it time then. he will come around.

[Pirarucu]

Often times Savs will look for an existing burrow to take over and expand before they resort to starting their own. He might be hoping one will appear. Just make a little hole in the dirt and he will take over.

[nepoez]

Instead of having hiding areas, I place logs and things with a flat base and my guy will dig under it. I tried using a hide, e.g. an object with a hollow inside, and they will just go in and not dig. Once all the objects don't have space for them to hide in, they'll dig a hole under the object and eventually form a tunnel. At least for mine.

[Toothless]

I guess I could try blocking off the area under the shelf and see if that will encourage him to dig a burrow...Its definately worth a try. There are logs, moss, and leaf litter in the soil area- so plenty of things to burrow under.

[Toothless]

Often times Savs will look for an existing burrow to take over and expand before they resort to starting their own. He might be hoping one will appear. Just make a little hole in the dirt and he will take over.
I already tried that, but the little stinker just ignores it :).

[murrindindi]

Hi, which part of the enclosure is the "dig box" located in (the warm or cool end), and what`s the temp under the surface?

[Mark Taylor]

Hi, which part of the enclosure is the "dig box" located in (the warm or cool end), and what`s the temp under the surface?

I thought you said.

Hi, you need to know just two temps; the lowest ambient (air) in the coolest parts at approx 24c (75f), then the surface temp at the basking site at betwen approx 50 to 60c (120 to 140f), no other temp matters. They must have the opportunity to cool down at times.
What`s the usual ambient temp in the room the enclosure`s in during the day and night throughout the year?

So why are you now asking about other temps?:rolleyes:

[V87]

This is a good question .....I would say give him more time in the new viv ... He will do it eventually .... If he is happy then all is well even if it takes a while to did so

[DeadlyDesires]

This photo was givin to me to post on this forum to show proof that Green Trees do infact borrow... This is a photo of Frank Retes' green trees

http://i.imgur.com/yGnwmew.jpg

[V87]

This photo was givin to me to post on this forum to show proof that Green Trees do infact borrow... This is a photo of Frank Retes' green trees

http://i.imgur.com/yGnwmew.jpg

Good photo .... See smy told ya so...:p

[murrindindi]

I thought you said.



So why are you now asking about other temps?:rolleyes:


Hi, I take it you don`t understand the importance of knowing what the coolest ambient temps are? I asked what it was in the "dig box" because I wasn`t sure the OP had measured those. I also asked what the room temps are as obviously they make a difference to the enclosure temps to some extent, and type of heating used.
Do you keep Varanids yourself? :rolleyes:

[V87]

Hi, I take it you don`t understand the importance of knowing what the coolest ambient temps are? I asked what it was in the "dig box" because I wasn`t sure the OP had measured those!? :rolleyes:

U make no sense ..... U clear stated that only two temps are all u need to knw .... But then ask about a temp under the suface of the dig box ... So this temp now matters ??? And I take it u don't understand the question being put to u ??? Don't think the op mentioned lowest air temp or not seeing an importance in it ... Think he was just pointing out that maybe ur making statements then going back on them ... Hi ... Just saying ....
That may come across as a lil confrontational but on another thread u did this sort of thing to me .....

[Toothless]

The soil area is on the second level. Ambient temp above the soil level is about 85F last I checked, but I'll stick the thermometer there again to check. Not sure what the temp is underneath the soil. What's the best way to check this?

[V87]

The soil area is on the second level. Ambient temp above the soil level is about 85F last I checked, but I'll stick the thermometer there again to check. Not sure what the temp is underneath the soil. What's the best way to check this?

Meat probe ....:D

[Toothless]

U make no sense ..... U clear stated that only two temps are all u need to knw .... But then ask about a temp under the suface of the dig box ... So this temp now matters ??? And I take it u don't understand the question being put to u ??? Don't think the op mentioned lowest air temp or not seeing an importance in it ... Think he was just pointing out that maybe ur making statements then going back on them ... Hi ... Just saying ....
That may come across as a lil confrontational but on another thread u did this sort of thing to me .....
I thought the question was quite valid. The temp at the bottom of the dig box may very well be the lowest ambient temp in the enclosure, in which case I would want to make sure its not too low. That's what I got out of the question anyways :).

[Toothless]

Meat probe ....:D
Thanks! I actually have one of those in my drawer, so I'll dig it out and see what I find. Never would have crossed my mind to use it.

[V87]

I thought the question was quite valid. The temp at the bottom of the dig box may very well be the lowest ambient temp in the enclosure, in which case I would want to make sure its not too low. That's what I got out of the question anyways :).

I may have just been reading into it a lil too much ....:hmm:

[Toothless]

So, I just checked the soil temp, and its 75.9F about 7 inches down- which means the bottom is most likely below 75.
I think I may add another 50w halogen over the second basking spot to raise the temps a bit. Or is there possibly another easier way to attempt to heat the substrate a bit? I think the room temp is around 70, but havn't measured it- its not cold though.

[murrindindi]

I thought the question was quite valid. The temp at the bottom of the dig box may very well be the lowest ambient temp in the enclosure, in which case I would want to make sure its not too low. That's what I got out of the question anyways :).

Hi, thanks for understanding why I asked the perfectly reasonable question!;)
You mention the monitor not burrowing so I wondered what the substrate temps were (possibly too cold). The temp you give 7 inches down isn`t too bad, lower down still may be a little too cool.

[V87]

Hi, thanks for understanding why I asked the perfectly reasonable question!;)
You mention the monitor not burrowing so I wondered what the substrate temps were (possibly too cool).

It's maybe not the question but the manner in which u ask ... Thanks for understanding

[murrindindi]

It's maybe not the question but the manner in which u ask ... Thanks for understanding


The manner in which I ask??? You CLEARLY misdunderstand!! ;)

[V87]

The manner in which I ask??? You CLEARLY misdunderstand!! ;)

I clearly do .... The tone of arrogance in ur posts is clear ...

May just b me but u seem to have a condescending air about ur posts ....:rolleyes: anyway I digress ....

[Toothless]

The problem with written messages is that alot is missed in the whole communication process. Your not able to hear the tone of the voice, nor body language.
I try to always keep that in mind when posting or reading these threads. What comes across as arrogance to one person, may be interpreted by someone else much differently. I've read almost every monitor thread on this site and notice it happens quite a bit (not directing this at anyone by the way, just in general).
I also don't care what people's attitudes appear to be long as they are offering helpful information- which is the reason we're all here right:)?

[DeadlyDesires]

realize i posted that on the wrong thread lol... sorry

[smy_749]

I think there is just bad blood between you two :P (murr and v87). I don't think either of you come off as arrogant in posts, you just usually never agree hhahaah

[nepoez]

The problem with written messages is that alot is missed in the whole communication process. Your not able to hear the tone of the voice, nor body language.
I try to always keep that in mind when posting or reading these threads. What comes across as arrogance to one person, may be interpreted by someone else much differently. I've read almost every monitor thread on this site and notice it happens quite a bit (not directing this at anyone by the way, just in general).
I also don't care what people's attitudes appear to be long as they are offering helpful information- which is the reason we're all here right:)?

Unless you all start to be more like me, a person who has outstanding communications skills, this sort of stuff will keep happening! Come to Canada to learn some real English!

[murrindindi]

Unless you all start to be more like me, a person who has outstanding communications skills, this sort of stuff will keep happening! Come to Canada to learn some real English!

If you want to learn real English you need to come to Oz sport, no flies on us, cobber ...... :D

[Toothless]

Ok, I need a bit of help here...
I plan to add another halogen light over the second basking spot to raise the ambient temps a bit, but have no idea how to go about hooking up another light?? The one's I'm using now are just old reptile dome lights I had lying around, but I really don't want to go out and spend a bunch of money on another one when I'm sure there's a cheaper way to set one up. There's a hardware store close by, so I am able to easily get the required supplies to hook one up myself, but having never done it before, have no idea where to even start!

[murrindindi]

Hi, which ambient temp are you trying to raise and what is it just now, and what exactly aren`t you sure of when you say you don`t know how to hook another bulb up (do you mean which colour wire goes in which terminal)?

[smy_749]

If you want to raise ambient temps, get a ceramic heater on a thermostat just don't get a huge wattage one. Anyways, another ceramic fixture is like 9 dollars at petsmart...

[Toothless]

A ceramic heater would work, but he needs another bulb over his second basking spot anyways, so figured I would be better adding another 50w halogen there first to see if it raised the ambient temp enough to keep the soil a bit warmer. If it doesn't work, I can always change the halogens to two 25 watts instead of 2 50s and then add another heat source?
Just trying to figure out the best way to go about raising the temperature of the soil. Right now, the lowest ambient air temp above ground is 78F, but the soil temp is below 75F.

As for the lights- I know nothing :). If there's a cheap, ready made fixture where I just have to add the bulb that would be great, otherwise I need to know exactly what stuff I need to buy and how to hook it up, as I'm clueless :). I used to buy all this kind of stuff at the petstore, but they charge an arm and a leg for those dome light fixtures, and I don't really want the dome part, just the light socket and plug- if that makes any sense?

[DeadlyDesires]

75 soil temp is great actually why would you wanna raise it? mine stays around 77

[V87]

Unless you all start to be more like me, a person who has outstanding communications skills, this sort of stuff will keep happening! Come to Canada to learn some real English!

In the nicest way possible ......


eat my shorts :D

[V87]

75 soil temp is great actually why would you wanna raise it? mine stays around 77

I would raise to about 80 to 82 personally ....

[Toothless]

75 soil temp is great actually why would you wanna raise it? mine stays around 77
Soil temp is below 75 :).

[DeadlyDesires]

I would raise to about 80 to 82 personally ....


it be a little cooler than your cool side which should be around 82 my hot side stays at 95 usually so he can always go down to the cool borrow if he wishes... thats on my cool side by the way, soil temp on the warm side is mid 80's

[RyanReptile]

This is just a thought but Perhaps he does not like the sand and soil ratios assuming that is what you use. Maybe try adding more soil or vice virsa.

[murrindindi]

A ceramic heater would work, but he needs another bulb over his second basking spot anyways, so figured I would be better adding another 50w halogen there first to see if it raised the ambient temp enough to keep the soil a bit warmer. If it doesn't work, I can always change the halogens to two 25 watts instead of 2 50s and then add another heat source?
Just trying to figure out the best way to go about raising the temperature of the soil. Right now, the lowest ambient air temp above ground is 78F, but the soil temp is below 75F.

As for the lights- I know nothing :). If there's a cheap, ready made fixture where I just have to add the bulb that would be great, otherwise I need to know exactly what stuff I need to buy and how to hook it up, as I'm clueless :). I used to buy all this kind of stuff at the petstore, but they charge an arm and a leg for those dome light fixtures, and I don't really want the dome part, just the light socket and plug- if that makes any sense?


If you have a female monitor the substrate needs to be heated to the very high 70`s to mid eighties F, with a male it`s not so critical, obviously down in the 60`s is not warm enough, mid 70`s is o.k.

Try Ebay for the ceramic fixture, I`ve seen them on the U.K site sold with the electric flex and plug already in place, maybe someone does that where you are, otherwise you could ask a friend/neighbour.

[murrindindi]

it be a little cooler than your cool side which should be around 82 my hot side stays at 95 usually so he can always go down to the cool borrow if he wishes... thats on my cool side by the way, soil temp on the warm side is mid 80's


Hi, the coolest parts need to be around 24c (75f), the warm side ambient isn`t important as such, it`s the suface temp at the basking site that`s critical (unless the whole of the "warm side" gets too warm). The idea is to create conditions similar to the somewhat cooler rainy season when they are most active (in the wild).

[Donnie]

Unless you all start to be more like me, a person who has outstanding communications skills, this sort of stuff will keep happening! Come to Canada to learn some real English!
Have a look at the flag on toothless's profile ;)

If you want to learn real English you need to come to Oz sport, no flies on us, cobber ...... :D

You all use a bastardised version of our language, just remember that :smug::smug::smug:

[DeadlyDesires]

Hi, the coolest parts need to be around 24c (75f), the warm side ambient isn`t important as such, it`s the suface temp at the basking site that`s critical (unless the whole of the "warm side" gets too warm). The idea is to create conditions similar to the somewhat cooler rainy season when they are most active (in the wild).


im talking about the soil temp.

[Toothless]

This is just a thought but Perhaps he does not like the sand and soil ratios assuming that is what you use. Maybe try adding more soil or vice virsa.
Its the same ratio that was in his last enclosure, and he didn't mind burrowing there, so I'm doubtful that is the problem- most of the soil is the same stuff as in the old enclosure, I just added a bit more with the same ratio as last time (same products too). It holds a burrow quite nicely as well as I've already dug him one, but he ignores it.

[Toothless]

If you have a female monitor the substrate needs to be heated to the very high 70`s to mid eighties F, with a male it`s not so critical, obviously down in the 60`s is not warm enough, mid 70`s is o.k.

Try Ebay for the ceramic fixture, I`ve seen them on the U.K site sold with the electric flex and plug already in place, maybe someone does that where you are, otherwise you could ask a friend/neighbour.
He's a male :) which I love because I don't have to worry about him becoming gravid. I can't reach the bottom of the soil to check the temps, but I'm assuming its in the low 70s, it wouldn't be lower though I would guess as the house temp is around 70.

[nepoez]

Have a look at the flag on toothless's profile ;)



You all use a bastardised version of our language, just remember that :smug::smug::smug:

hahaha that's funny.

[jarich]

Its the same ratio that was in his last enclosure, and he didn't mind burrowing there, so I'm doubtful that is the problem- most of the soil is the same stuff as in the old enclosure, I just added a bit more with the same ratio as last time (same products too). It holds a burrow quite nicely as well as I've already dug him one, but he ignores it.

I think it maybe that the soil has to settle a bit. Ive noticed the same with many other keepers, as well as my own, especially if it isnt packed down hard.

[Toothless]

I think it maybe that the soil has to settle a bit. Ive noticed the same with many other keepers, as well as my own, especially if it isnt packed down hard.
Could be, but its packed down pretty hard. I actually got into the enclosure and walked on it multiple times while I was adding the dirt since I made the mistake of not packing it down in the old enclosure and had to spend hours re-wetting and packing down the dirt:no:- NOT fun.

[Toothless]

I just added another 45 watts to the enclosure- so will have to see if that helps a bit. The ambient temps have been dropping too low this past week so I plan to add another few light fixtures to the enclosure which will enable me to turn off and on lights depending on what the ambient temp in the room is. Since the enclosure isn't insulated, I figure this will be an easy way to adjust the temps at any given time if need be. Then I can just play with turning the lights off/ on, or rotating between different wattages to achieve the proper temps. The cage is extremely well sealed, so the extra wattage if need be shouldn't affect the humidity too much. He has a gradient right now of 60-95% and it maintains itself very well with little maintenance.
On a funny note, I realized my guy is an acrobat! This morning he did a front flip off his shelf like it was no big deal to get a roach that was on the bottom level. It terrified me for a minute until I realized that he new exactly what he was doing and was fine. It was almost like watching a cat fall. Pretty amazing how flexible this dude is.
I'm seriously debating putting a camera in the enclosure to catch all this on video as of course I'm never filming him when he does anything interesting. Is there some cheap way to set up a video-recorder in the enclosure? I'm not very techo savy so have no idea how people do it or what they use.