Another stupid housing question

[boosh96]

This one is even more stupid than my last question regarding housing, but would it be possible to house a small to medium monitor in an appropriately sized stock tank, if one were to make the necessary modifications?

[stephanbakir]

Technically yes, but then it would no longer be a tank.
You would need to design a housing for it so that it was reasonably insulated, it would also need to be front opening so that you reduce the stress to the monitor, why go through all the trouble if the alternative is lighter, cheaper and generally... Better?

[smy_749]

why not? Only thing is a 'small to medium size monitor' can mean alot of sizes. A medium water monitor or albigs is pretty large....

The only true downside I can think of, that modifications won't fix on a stock tank is that you are coming into the tank from the top, like a predator as opposed to front opening doors.

[stephanbakir]

The only true downside I can think of, that modifications won't fix on a stock tank is that you are coming into the tank from the top, like a predator as opposed to front opening doors.

It's quite easy to put a glass tank on its side and modify it to be functional in that orientation.

[boosh96]

How much would it cost to build a 4 x 2 x 2' Ackie cage with all the necessary supplies and stuff? I just kinda figured a stock tank might be cheaper, but it seems like I was wrong.

Edit: I guess I mean versus a stock tank in terms of cost.

[smy_749]

How much would it cost to build a 4 x 2 x 2' Ackie cage with all the necessary supplies and stuff? I just kinda figured a stock tank might be cheaper, but it seems like I was wrong.

That also depends again on the types of wood and what not. If your going to look into a cage build, building one around a cattle trough is a popular design idea. One of the members here had a thread about it, ayanab1 or something like that (can't remember spelling)

[boosh96]

Would it be possible for me to orient the stock tank on its side and board up the front so the enclosure holds dirt, or something along those lines?

[smy_749]

It's quite easy to put a glass tank on its side and modify it to be functional in that orientation.

Your so much more innovative than me. I was just thinking about how you would do the lightning if you house it on its side...I guess you could just drill holes and run wire through and have them hang.

The moral of the story here to the OP, is its not as easy as you prob thought, and with that level of modification you might as well spend a bit more and have something designed for the purpose you need, rather than a ghetto looking tank on its side with styro foam all over it.

With the right level of modification you could probably turn your couch or big screen TV into a cage too :P

[boosh96]

That also depends again on the types of wood and what not. If your going to look into a cage build, building one around a cattle trough is a popular design idea. One of the members here had a thread about it, ayanab1 or something like that (can't remember spelling)

I really don't mean to be stupid, but what do you mean by building it around a cattle trough?

[stephanbakir]

You can get cattle and horse troughs and build a base around them, then build up from there. I'll find you a link.
There are very few stupid questions.

[stephanbakir]

The Monitor FAQ--Housing (http://www.kingsnake.com/monitorfaq/housing.htm)

[smy_749]

I really don't mean to be stupid, but what do you mean by building it around a cattle trough?

You know what they say, there are no stupid questions, only stupid people asking questions.

Just kidding. Ask away, and don't bother writing 'stupid question' because its probably not stupid and someone else surely asked it before you.

[jarich]

The stock trough makes a great base. Look at this build, which starts with a similar base...

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/varanid/98068-ackie-enclosure-build.html

[boosh96]

The Monitor FAQ--Housing (http://www.kingsnake.com/monitorfaq/housing.htm)

Judging by that link, it sounds like I could house an Ackie up to a Savannah in the right size stock tank.. The other enclosure looks a lot better though, but I'm horrible with building stuff.

[boosh96]

Nevermind. I just finished reading that not being able to observe their surroundings is stressful on the monitors. So even if I do get one, I'm just going to use a stock tank as a base. I think I might go with an Ackie.

[boosh96]

Now, could a baby Savannah live in a sealed 40 breeder until it reaches about 16" or so? I'm thinking I MIGHT go the Savannah route, that's if I even get a lizard, but I'd have to see if I would be able to properly care for it.

[Pirarucu]

I wouldn't house it in there once it hit a foot long, even that would be a stretch..
My advice would simply be to build the adult enclosure before even getting the monitor.

[boosh96]

I wouldn't house it in there once it hit a foot long, even that would be a stretch..
My advice would simply be to build the adult enclosure before even getting the monitor.

That's probably a good idea. I just feel like I should make it clear that I'm going to think VERY extensively before I make that kind of commitment. That is, if I'm realistically able to do so.

[stephanbakir]

No way in hell you can get a hotspot at 160f and till have a temp gradient in a 40...

[smy_749]

No way in hell you can get a hotspot at 160f and till have a temp gradient in a 40...

Put the cool end near the air conditioner, or inside a refrigerator.

[boosh96]

No way in hell you can get a hotspot at 160f and till have a temp gradient in a 40...

That answers my question. Should I just put the baby in its adult enclosure from the start, then? Or would it be a good idea for me to build, say, a 4 x 2' and house the monitor in there until it's big enough to move into the adult-size enclosure?

[stephanbakir]

start it in an adult enclosure, unless you plan to track its feeding, but I wouldn't bother.

[Pirarucu]

No way in hell you can get a hotspot at 160f and till have a temp gradient in a 40...I have achieved a basking area of 200F while leaving the cool side of the cage in the seventies or the low eighties. You would be surprised how easy it is. Just raise the basking area to the lights until you get the temp you're after..

[Pirarucu]

That answers my question. Should I just put the baby in its adult enclosure from the start, then? Or would it be a good idea for me to build, say, a 4 x 2' and house the monitor in there until it's big enough to move into the adult-size enclosure?Start in an adult enclosure. Contrary to popular belief, there is no way in which a large cage will be detrimental to a small or young animal if it is set up properly.

[boosh96]

I'm thinking I'll just build the top and then cut the bottom so I can use a stock tank to hold the dirt. What size stock tank would be good for holding the dirt the monitor will need?

[Pirarucu]

As big as the bottom of the tank. It should be two feet deep for a sav. Unfortunately they don't make 8x4 troughs, just 8x3 so far as I've seen. Just make the top four feet wide and put a lip on it. Or go bigger if you can. You could make it 8x8 or 10x10, they make circular troughs that big.

[boosh96]

Holy crap, I just thought of something. What about nighttime heating? Would I have to install infrared bulbs for nighttime, or would the cage be insulated enough to last the Savs through the night, or what exactly?

[smy_749]

As big as the bottom of the tank. It should be two feet deep for a sav. Unfortunately they don't make 8x4 troughs, just 8x3 so far as I've seen. Just make the top four feet wide and put a lip on it. Or go bigger if you can. You could make it 8x8 or 10x10, they make circular troughs that big.

They make 8 x 2's. You can just put 2 side by side, but you would have an akward metal barrier in the middle. And it depends on where you live and how cold your night time house temps are, but most people use CME's or something for night time typically.

[Pirarucu]

Holy crap, I just thought of something. What about nighttime heating? Would I have to install infrared bulbs for nighttime, or would the cage be insulated enough to last the Savs through the night, or what exactly?If it's insulated it should hold heat through the night. Many keepers simply leave the heat lamps on 24/7 with no ill effects and with a number of benefits, particularly if keeping more than one monitor in the same cage.

[DeadlyDesires]

Holy crap, I just thought of something. What about nighttime heating? Would I have to install infrared bulbs for nighttime, or would the cage be insulated enough to last the Savs through the night, or what exactly?


my tank usually holds head through the night if i turn everything off but i have a heat emitter i use at night when i turn off the lights.

[stephanbakir]

Che's and rhp's on a thermostat are the way to go.

[boosh96]

Can someone give me a ballpark estimate of the cost of building a good Sav cage? I'm planning to use a stock tank as a base and to hold the dirt.

[DeadlyDesires]

Can someone give me a ballpark estimate of the cost of building a good Sav cage? I'm planning to use a stock tank as a base and to hold the dirt.


my cage cost me about 1grand to build.

[boosh96]

my cage cost me about 1grand to build.

Oh. If it costs that much to build a good cage for a Sav, then I'm probably best off seeking another lizard.

[smy_749]

Oh. If it costs that much to build a good cage for a Sav, then I'm probably best off seeking another lizard.

What state do you live in? If you live in a tropical climate you can build an outdoor enclsoure for much cheaper and get something like a tegu / iguana etc.

[murrindindi]

Hi, if you live in a tropical climate you can house a tropical Savannah monitor outdoors for at least the warmer more humid months, then bring indoors during the dry season! :)
I think you could make an indoor enclosure for less than $1,000.

[boosh96]

What state do you live in? If you live in a tropical climate you can build an outdoor enclsoure for much cheaper and get something like a tegu / iguana etc.

I live in the Kansas City area of Missouri. Would it be possible for me to build a summer home for a monitor or tegu?

[Danimal]

Your north of me I wouldn't unless you want to build 2 enclosures

[DeadlyDesires]

Hi, if you live in a tropical climate you can house a tropical Savannah monitor outdoors for at least the warmer more humid months, then bring indoors during the dry season! :)
I think you could make an indoor enclosure for less than $1,000.


lol thats including everything from scratch, tools, and all... it wasn't very cheap.

[jarich]

If you're using a stock tank for the bottom then the rest shouldn't cost more than around $300.

[Danimal]

If you're using a stock tank for the bottom then the rest shouldn't cost more than around $300.


Agreed, Deadly was including the cost of tools which will quickly inflate the price. When I was younger, I bought precut panels and cut everything else by hand with a miter box. If you have a circular saw you can cut pretty much anything with a couple of clamps and a straight 2 x 4.

[stephanbakir]

I need to say... If you're worried about 1000 for a cage, keep in mind that the cost of feeding an adult sav is amazing to say the least. Mine cost me close to 10$ a day on average.

[murrindindi]

I need to say... If you're worried about 1000 for a cage, keep in mind that the cost of feeding an adult sav is amazing to say the least. Mine cost me close to 10$ a day on average.


Hi, I can feed my 180cm+ V. salvator for around £12 to £15 Sterling a week (approx $18 to $23 U.S), what are you feeding a Savannah monitor half that size on for $70 a week?

[stephanbakir]

Waters have a less restrictive diet, roaches aren't cheap to maintain (cheaper then buying food tho) and neither are whole shrimp and snails.

[boosh96]

Yeah, it's really kinda hit me how expensive a Savannah can get. I'm leaning towards possibly getting an Ackie instead.

[murrindindi]

Waters have a less restrictive diet, roaches aren't cheap to maintain (cheaper then buying food tho) and neither are whole shrimp and snails.


There`s no need to feed shrimp in any great ammount, and raoches aren`t that expensive to maintain!?
V. exanthematicus doesn`t have a particularly "restricted" (specialised) diet in captivity.

[stephanbakir]

Depends if you talk to Wayne now or a year ago LMAO!!!
The only feeders you can get here are roaches, the rest aren't ideal for monitors and I'd rather pay more and have a healthier animal then any alternative.
I rarely fed shrimp, it was mostly roaches, and snails.
If you are going to feed a sav mostly roaches, a massive colony will cost quite a bit to maintain if you only feed organic.

[DeadlyDesires]

Yeah, it's really kinda hit me how expensive a Savannah can get. I'm leaning towards possibly getting an Ackie instead.


they are cheaper but not by a whole bunch they are still eating machines..

[DeadlyDesires]

I need to say... If you're worried about 1000 for a cage, keep in mind that the cost of feeding an adult sav is amazing to say the least. Mine cost me close to 10$ a day on average.


if i hadn't started breeding my own mice and getting my roach colony going i would be paying somewhere around 50 bux a week so it sounds right to me.. including paying for mice which are 4bux a pop here... unless i order. and my night crawlers, roaches which eat a lot lol..

[stephanbakir]

Technically rodents should not even be included in a savs diet...

[murrindindi]

Technically rodents should not even be included in a savs diet...


Absolute nonsense. Maybe you can tell Dr. Daniel Bennett ("Boddleyitis" on many forums including this one), and Ravi Thakoordyal (co-author with Daniel of the Savannah monitor book) that you have some information they`ve missed about the captive care of this species, I`m sure they`ll be most impressed with your "research and results"!
Would you be prepared to state publically why "technically" rodents should not be part of the CAPTIVE diet (even though it`s already been "done to death")?
You and others of the same mind cause so much unnecessary confusion, it needs to stop, rodents have NOT caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands of these animals in captivity, improper conditions have, in which case no diet is healthy. Thanks! :)

[stephanbakir]

When did I say it caused deaths? Now your puttingwords in MY mouth...

The fat content of adult rodents is huge, and the average captive Varanid is obese... Proper husbandry, and enclosures, and mental enrichment can increase your savs activity and give you a lean monitor.
My opinion is that you have an insectivore, feed it ****ing insects. It's your job to try and closely match their wild food items, and if you can't, get as close as u can.
When did either of those indeviduals, or anyone claim (with a shred of proof) that the wild varanids are rodents as a staple.

[DeadlyDesires]

rodents aren't my staple.... nightcrawlers are..

http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s638/cynthia_mitchell/20130220_1343410_zps1af21aab.jpg

[murrindindi]

When did I say it caused deaths? Now your puttingwords in MY mouth...

The fat content of adult rodents is huge, and the average captive Varanid is obese... Proper husbandry, and enclosures, and mental enrichment can increase your savs activity and give you a lean monitor.
My opinion is that you have an insectivore, feed it ****ing insects. It's your job to try and closely match their wild food items, and if you can't, get as close as u can.
When did either of those indeviduals, or anyone claim (with a shred of proof) that the wild varanids are rodents as a staple.


You say they (V. exathematicus) are insectivores, who told you that, and who mentioned feeding rodents to properly supported captive Varanids causes obesity (any medium to large species in particular)?
How "huge" is the fat content of a rodent such as a small to adult mouse/rat?
As I say, why not contact the authors of the most informative Savanah monitor book yet published and present them with your own results? I take it you have studied them throughout their range in the wild, and breed them successfully and repeatedly in captivity on insects/inverts alone?
I`m interested personally to know how you support mature females in particular on an insect only diet, particularly during gravidity?
I hope you, like me see this purely as a discussion, NOT an "argument"!

[murrindindi]

rodents aren't my staple.... nightcrawlers are..


Hi, why would you feed earthworms as the most important part of the captive diet? That`s just a question, not a criticism your ladyship!

[DeadlyDesires]

Hi, why would you feed earthworms as the most important part of the captive diet? That`s just a question, not a criticism your ladyship!

because they are high in calcium (i was told) its more of a mixture of earth worms and dubia's and then he gets rodents around once a week.

[murrindindi]

O.k, earthworms ARE good prey, though there`s very little roughage in them, that`s also important in the diet. How many worms equal a vertebrate item (not necessarily a rodent) in terms of calcium, etc?
Have you tried fertilised quail eggs?
How do earthworms and some roaches and a rodent or two a week come to $50 (you say that`s what it costs you for food)? :confused: :)

[DeadlyDesires]

O.k, earthworms ARE good prey, though there`s very little roughage in them, that`s also important in the diet. How many worms equal a vertebrate item (not necessarily a rodent) in terms of calcium, etc?
Have you tried fertilised quail eggs?

I haven't tried quail eggs yet, i have been looking and having trouble finding any :(... he probably gets more worms than invert. for the ratio but i dust his food with a multi vitamin and calcium when i feed the roaches and wined pups. i give him an egg (hen) about once a week maybe twice sometimes. and since you said something about the shrimp i only feed him shrimp (coated in egg lol) once every couple weeks.. about 3 jumbo (cut up with heads and shells still on)

[smy_749]

Murr, deadly tends to change her answer when she realizes what she says doesnt make any sense. I asked her how much she spent on wood, she said it came close to 1000 bucks, then the 1000 was majority wood but other stuff, then the 1000 was everything all together including power tools when people said you could build one for 300.

Earth worms, I mean earth worms and roaches, I mean earth worms , roaches , rat pups, and egg....and shrimp...you get the point.

Don't forget the thread on being out of the enclosure only 5 minutes because temps, I mean mostly humidity, I mean mostly a mixture of humidity and temps.... :hmm:


And for the natural diet thing, just a question : who is to say that the prey items in the wild are the optimal food source for good health? Has anyone actually proved that a natural diet is better than other options not found in the savannah?

[stephanbakir]

You say they (V. exathematicus) are insectivores, who told you that, and who mentioned feeding rodents to properly supported captive Varanids causes obesity (any medium to large species in particular)?
How "huge" is the fat content of a rodent such as a small to adult mouse/rat?
As I say, why not contact the authors of the most informative Savanah monitor book yet published and present them with your own results? I take it you have studied them throughout their range in the wild, and breed them successfully and repeatedly in captivity on insects/inverts alone?
I`m interested personally to know how you support mature females in particular on an insect only diet, particularly during gravidity?
I hope you, like me see this purely as a discussion, NOT an "argument"!
Trust me, I love healthy debates.

Feeding | The Savannah Monitor, Varanus exanthematicus (http://savannahmonitor.org/feeding/)
“I have examined the stomach contents and fecal samples from over 200 of these animals in the wild. Only one specimen was recorded as having eaten a mammal, the rest had fed only on invertebrates.”

I never claimed that rodents caused obesity, but since captive varanids are pronto to it, I avoid the potential problem by feeding lean food items.

I've never bred varanids (although I hope to in the next few years) but I plan to jam just about as much food as the females want into em prior to the season to build up their fat reserves.

Mouse fat chart Nutrition Feeder Mice | Nutrient Composition of Feeder Animals (http://www.rodentpro.com/qpage_articles_03.asp)



And for the natural diet thing, just a question : who is to say that the prey items in the wild are the optimal food source for good health? Has anyone actually proved that a natural diet is better than other options not found in the savannah?
Never said it was better, but they have plenty of rodents in the wild, why are so few found in stomach contents?

[smy_749]

I'm not disagreeing whether they eat them or not, I don't actually have a clue. Was just wondering if theres any benefit to mimicking a natural diet or is it possible to provide something better.

[stephanbakir]

How do you know what's better?

Also, missed one of his questions... Name more then 2 SUCCESSFUL sav breeders, and I'm not talking about some moron with 2 unhealthy savs that got eggs one day...

[smy_749]

How do you know what's better?

Also, missed one of his questions... Name more then 2 SUCCESSFUL sav breeders, and I'm not talking about some moron with 2 unhealthy savs that got eggs one day...

Thats what I'm wondering :P has anyone tried to figure it out...I'm not making the assumptions, I'm just asking if we actually have any idea.

[stephanbakir]

Thats what I'm wondering :P has anyone tried to figure it out...I'm not making the assumptions, I'm just asking if we actually have any idea.

Even if someone did, it would be an educated guess unless the study was done in a controlled environment with hundreds of subjects.

[murrindindi]

Trust me, I love healthy debates.

Feeding | The Savannah Monitor, Varanus exanthematicus (http://savannahmonitor.org/feeding/)
“I have examined the stomach contents and fecal samples from over 200 of these animals in the wild. Only one specimen was recorded as having eaten a mammal, the rest had fed only on invertebrates.”

I never claimed that rodents caused obesity, but since captive varanids are pronto to it, I avoid the potential problem by feeding lean food items.

I've never bred varanids (although I hope to in the next few years) but I plan to jam just about as much food as the females want into em prior to the season to build up their fat reserves.

Mouse fat chart Nutrition Feeder Mice | Nutrient Composition of Feeder Animals (http://www.rodentpro.com/qpage_articles_03.asp)


Never said it was better, but they have plenty of rodents in the wild, why are so few found in stomach contents?

Good to hear we both consider this a serious discussion and nothing more, hopefully we`ll all learn something in the process!
I take it you haven`t read "Varanus exathematicus, the truth about the Savannah monitor" By Dr. Daniel Bennett and Ravi Thakoorydal (Viper Press), also on "kindle"?
The scientist who did the studies on the species (Daniel Bennett) and his co author RECOMMEND including rodents in their captive diet, so please let them both know that you know better (respectfully, of course)!
It`s not altogether about what they take in the wild, it`s about what`s best for them in captivity. It`s absolutely true that the ammount of energy offered must be in relation to the ammount used. How come Wayne`s pair are not even close to being overweight after one whole year of being fed a diet consisting of (I`m guessing) at least 50% rodents, in fact they are UNderfed if anything, I think if more energy (inc. rodents) were offered they would be a excellent physical condition. I strongly suspect Wayne hasn`t been spending $140 a week on them, as you would ($70 each per week)! :)
On the one hand you say you would feed a female as much as she could eat to build up the fat reserves, but you wouldn`t feed rodents because of the fat content, instead you supplement the inverts, which at best is purely guesswork?
Perhaps the inverts they take are easier to procure, that must be at least a part of it, they wouldn`t survive long if they expended more energy than they consumed!
You haven`t answered the question I asked about who told you they were insectivores in the wild and should be treated as such in captivity?
If the conditions inside the matchboxes of dirt don`t support them, no diet is healthy, that`s what we, the more experienced keepers need to get across to the (mainly) beginners who keep Savannah monitors.

[stephanbakir]

I'm in agreement with just about everything you said, but since I don't claim to know everything about the species, I make the effort to mimic what they would get in the wild, but in quantities that would allow for significant growth but not the build up of fat stores.
I "could" feed females mice or other mammals if I chose to, but since its much easier for me to have a massive dubia colony. 70$ is what I spent on both dubia food, shrimp (when my colony needed a break) and other inverts. The staple was Dubias. My mom also fed a ton of my roaches to the birds which is partly why I needed such a large colony.

Regarding answering your question, please re-read what I wrote and you will find your answer. I never was never told to feed them the way I do, I chose to to mimic their natural diet as closely as possible.

[DeadlyDesires]

Murr, deadly tends to change her answer when she realizes what she says doesnt make any sense. I asked her how much she spent on wood, she said it came close to 1000 bucks, then the 1000 was majority wood but other stuff, then the 1000 was everything all together including power tools when people said you could build one for 300.

Earth worms, I mean earth worms and roaches, I mean earth worms , roaches , rat pups, and egg....and shrimp...you get the point.

Don't forget the thread on being out of the enclosure only 5 minutes because temps, I mean mostly humidity, I mean mostly a mixture of humidity and temps.... :hmm:


And for the natural diet thing, just a question : who is to say that the prey items in the wild are the optimal food source for good health? Has anyone actually proved that a natural diet is better than other options not found in the savannah?


im not lying if that is what you are implying... i am simply explaining further what i feed or what i bought... and its none of your damn business what i say, i would appreciate it if you would stop talking about me all together.. you dont know what i do or what i dont do... i told him everything i feed my monitor... you can't even keep a damn monitor in a cage much less decide on which monitor you friggin want... so as far as im concerned keep your stupid opinions to yourself and keep me out of your stupid conversations.

and as for your stupid comment on my enclosure, i did NOT write down everything i bought so i am simply guessing on how much i spent on crap...

[smy_749]

im not lying if that is what you are implying... i am simply explaining further what i feed or what i bought... and its none of your damn business what i say, i would appreciate it if you would stop talking about me all together.. you dont know what i do or what i dont do... i told him everything i feed my monitor... you can't even keep a damn monitor in a cage much less decide on which monitor you friggin want... so as far as im concerned keep your stupid opinions to yourself and keep me out of your stupid conversations.

and as for your stupid comment on my enclosure, i did NOT write down everything i bought so i am simply guessing on how much i spent on crap...

Thats funny, because most people here have had escaped animals. Even infernalis had escaped monitor, why don't you go say that little fact to him? You just make stuff up off the top of your head, someone calls you out on it, and you try to explain your way out of it. :D Don't get mad because I pointed out another stupid pattern that I've noticed with you (just like the trying desperately to point out flaws that you used to do, until I pointed it out. At least you stopped.)

Oh, and I don't think your lying ,I just think you don't know what your talking about and when you realize it you try to fix it but usually just make it worse and refuse to admit that your wrong.

[DeadlyDesires]

Thats funny, because most people here have had escaped animals. Even infernalis had escaped monitor, why don't you go say that little fact to him? You just make stuff up off the top of your head, someone calls you out on it, and you try to explain your way out of it. :D Don't get mad because I pointed out another stupid pattern that I've noticed with you (just like the trying desperately to point out flaws that you used to do, until I pointed it out. At least you stopped.)

Oh, and I don't think your lying ,I just think you don't know what your talking about and when you realize it you try to fix it but usually just make it worse and refuse to admit that your wrong.


yea because thats what happens... not so much, anyway, its not your business what i say to someone else so stay out of my conversation with someone else thanks! it was asked what i feed so i went more in depth on my feeding schedule. my monitor is happy alive *in the proper enclosure* so as far as im concerned you can take your stupid *assumptions* and go somewhere else with them. i dont change what i say, i simply go more indepth on what i am explaining, and i even asked my man we did spend everything i said. and most of it was on wood, yes i was not lying about that, how much i dont think anyone really know when they build something. and i would never say anything to wayne like that hes not a jerk like you are.

[stephanbakir]

yea because thats what happens... not so much, anyway, its not your business what i say to someone else so stay out of my conversation with someone else thanks! it was asked what i feed so i went more in depth on my feeding schedule. my monitor is happy alive *in the proper enclosure* so as far as im concerned you can take your stupid *assumptions* and go somewhere else with them. i dont change what i say, i simply go more indepth on what i am explaining, and i even asked my man we did spend everything i said. and most of it was on wood, yes i was not lying about that, how much i dont think anyone really know when they build something. and i would never say anything to wayne like that hes not a jerk like you are.

First of all, it was a healthy debate before you guys got at eachothers throats...
Second of all, it's an OPEN FORUM therefor you really don't have any inherent privacy, so he's he is allowed to read what you post...
Other then that... I hardly care what you guys are arguing about, but figure it out in private so you don't drag down a healthy conversation.

K? Thx!

[smy_749]

yea because thats what happens... not so much, anyway, its not your business what i say to someone else so stay out of my conversation with someone else thanks! it was asked what i feed so i went more in depth on my feeding schedule. my monitor is happy alive *in the proper enclosure* so as far as im concerned you can take your stupid *assumptions* and go somewhere else with them. i dont change what i say, i simply go more indepth on what i am explaining, and i even asked my man we did spend everything i said. and most of it was on wood, yes i was not lying about that, how much i dont think anyone really know when they build something. and i would never say anything to wayne like that hes not a jerk like you are.

I was talking with murr, not you anyways. ;)

Maybe you should go back and read what you wrote in the enclosure cost threads. It doesn't actually make a bit of sense or add up, but it doesnt matter anyways. You said it to me as an insult, so whether you direct it to wayne or anyone else or not, it still applies to them as well. I am an idiot because my monitor got out, so is everyone else then ;)

[murrindindi]

I'm in agreement with just about everything you said, but since I don't claim to know everything about the species, I make the effort to mimic what they would get in the wild, but in quantities that would allow for significant growth but not the build up of fat stores.
I "could" feed females mice or other mammals if I chose to, but since its much easier for me to have a massive dubia colony. 70$ is what I spent on both dubia food, shrimp (when my colony needed a break) and other inverts. The staple was Dubias. My mom also fed a ton of my roaches to the birds which is partly why I needed such a large colony.

Regarding answering your question, please re-read what I wrote and you will find your answer. I never was never told to feed them the way I do, I chose to to mimic their natural diet as closely as possible.


You say you like to mimic what they take in the wild, so where are the Giant African millipedes, Giant African crickets, amphibians (vertebrates), etc (and neither do they take shrimp/prawns in the wild)!?
I take it you also made sure you created a "hot dry season" in the enclosure so the monitor remained fairly inactive for at least several months each year? Sorry, it`s late over here I need to log out, thanks for taking part so far!

[stephanbakir]

I said as closely as possible, they may not have prawns but they do have crayfish so its as close as I could get without feeding Wc food.

I never planned to breed him so I kept his temps pretty stable, no need for a monitor to get excited every year looking for a female and wanting to breed with no potential copulation if we can't see a benefit to them.

[boosh96]

I've been thinking pretty hard about whether or not I should get a monitor, and I'm thinking it'll be best for me and my hypothetical lizard if I wait until I'm totally sure I can provide the lizard with the happiest life possible. If I have to wait to get one until I have my own house after college and stuff, then, well, I guess that kinda sucks for me.

[murrindindi]

I've been thinking pretty hard about whether or not I should get a monitor, and I'm thinking it'll be best for me and my hypothetical lizard if I wait until I'm totally sure I can provide the lizard with the happiest life possible. If I have to wait to get one until I have my own house after college and stuff, then, well, I guess that kinda sucks for me.


Well done for realising this is a long term commitment and not just rushing in. I hope one day in the not too distant future you will keep Varanids, I`m sure you`ll be a very resposible owner!

[boosh96]

Well done for realising this is a long term commitment and not just rushing in. I hope one day in the not too distant future you will keep Varanids, I`m sure you`ll be a very resposible owner!
Thanks! I can't describe how badly I want to keep Varanids or Tegus. My dream lizard is an Asian water monitor, a Blackthroat, and/or a Croc monitor.

[smy_749]

Thanks! I can't describe how badly I want to keep Varanids or Tegus. My dream lizard is an Asian water monitor, a Blackthroat, and/or a Croc monitor.

Croc monitors are a bad idea imho. Massive teeth, massive claws, lightning fast, and huge. One slip up or bad day and you may lose feeling in your hand completely, or a few fingers...

[boosh96]

I know that Croc monitors are a bad idea. And as amazing as they are, I don't think I'll ever own one.

[Pirarucu]

Croc monitors are a bad idea imho. Massive teeth, massive claws, lightning fast, and huge. One slip up or bad day and you may lose feeling in your hand completely, or a few fingers...I would say they are a bad idea for someone who doesn't know what they're doing and doesn't have an enclosure and proper safety procedures for working with such an animal. With such a large and fast animal, you really ought to have a way to feed from outside the enclosure, as well as a separate holding area where the monitor can be confined while you enter the enclosure. If a keeper chooses not to do those things then that's on them, but I personally would not keep them without those things. I know how fast and potentially dangerous they can be and while they are beautiful and fascinating monitors, they command a lot of respect.

[boosh96]

Okay, so I was posting on the Varanus.net forums around the same time I posted on this thread, and I was told that stock tanks are just fine as far as you don't have to worry about stressing the monitor. They said that thousands of monitors over the years have been raised and still did well with stock tanks. Any thoughts? I'm thinking I MIGHT be able to manage an Ackie or two. Just maybe. Naturally I'd have to see if family/friends would be willing to step in to care for the monitor(s) when I go to college, go out of town, and stuff like that. If it doesn't work out then I'll just wait.

[franks]

With the right level of modification you could probably turn your couch or big screen TV into a cage too :P

You are not as far-fetched as you may think... My wife wants me to make our guest bed into an enclosure for my savanah monitor.

@ the op. I have a stock tank that I have modified to temporarily house a monitor, but it really is not ideal. No matter what you try to do, you cannot get a stock tank to have room for 18" of substrate.

[boosh96]

You are not as far-fetched as you may think... My wife wants me to make our guest bed into an enclosure for my savanah monitor.

@ the op. I have a stock tank that I have modified to temporarily house a monitor, but it really is not ideal. No matter what you try to do, you cannot get a stock tank to have room for 18" of substrate.

I'm sorry but I thought Ackies needed 12" of substrate? If they need more I'll trash the stock tank plan.

[Toothless]

I thought the general rule for substrate depth was usually half the total length? I think ackies get approx 2 feet so wouldn't that mean 12 inches of substrate- please someone correct me if I'm wrong?

[smy_749]

I thought the general rule for substrate depth was usually half the total length? I think ackies get approx 2 feet so wouldn't that mean 12 inches of substrate- please someone correct me if I'm wrong?

Its all speculation. If you put 4 feet they might use it all too....If you put 12 inches or 18 they may do just fine and dandy. Like I said earlier, 2 feet is just what people use and see good results, its not the do or die number. Just remember it doesn't hurt to provide too much, but it does to provide not enough, so trying not to provide the "minimal requirement" is your safe bet.

[smy_749]

I would say they are a bad idea for someone who doesn't know what they're doing and doesn't have an enclosure and proper safety procedures for working with such an animal. With such a large and fast animal, you really ought to have a way to feed from outside the enclosure, as well as a separate holding area where the monitor can be confined while you enter the enclosure. If a keeper chooses not to do those things then that's on them, but I personally would not keep them without those things. I know how fast and potentially dangerous they can be and while they are beautiful and fascinating monitors, they command a lot of respect.

I guess I was talking about as a 'pet lizard'. Someone seriously into monitors who is going to observe behavior and whatever, fine. But the risks still out weigh the benefits in my opinion. I think even the most experienced keepers wil l have a difficult time with a determined salvadorii if he decides to make for the door, or doesn't want to have his cage cleaned :P

[Pirarucu]

I guess I was talking about as a 'pet lizard'. Someone seriously into monitors who is going to observe behavior and whatever, fine. But the risks still out weigh the benefits in my opinion. I think even the most experienced keepers wil l have a difficult time with a determined salvadorii if he decides to make for the door, or doesn't want to have his cage cleaned :PHence the holding pen which he would go into and which would be sealed while the keeper entered the cage. Most zoos use systems like this for large or dangerous animals, the idea is that the animal is always confined to a space other than where the keeper is.

[Pirarucu]

Twelve inches is fine for ackies, that is their average burrow/nest depth in the wild. A metal horse trough or stock bin ought to be perfectly capable of holding that much or more. I know of people with a good eighteen inches of dirt in stock tanks with ackies, and in general they will use it but not as often, judging by the depth at which eggs were usually buried.
If you really want to be thorough, just pile it up higher on one side.

[boosh96]

What's the best method of heating/sealing a stock tank? What number/type of lights should I use and what should I use to seal the cage? Also, my understanding is that Ackies need ambient humidity as well as humid burrows-is that correct?

[Pirarucu]

What's the best method of heating/sealing a stock tank? What number/type of lights should I use and what should I use to seal the cage? Also, my understanding is that Ackies need ambient humidity as well as humid burrows-is that correct?You can use sealed plywood or plexiglass for the lid, for heating you want a couple halogen flood bulbs, around 50 watts or so, maybe 60.
I am not sure whether they need ambient humidity as high as other species do, but they certainly are more active and spend less time in their burrows when it is provided. It may also depend on which subspecies you are looking at. Yellows come from a somewhat more arid region, while reds are significantly closer to the equator.

[smy_749]

You can use sealed plywood or plexiglass for the lid, for heating you want a couple halogen flood bulbs, around 50 watts or so, maybe 60.
I am not sure whether they need ambient humidity as high as other species do, but they certainly are more active and spend less time in their burrows when it is provided. It may also depend on which subspecies you are looking at. Yellows come from a somewhat more arid region, while reds are significantly closer to the equator.

According to FR (I know I know) they like it dry and arid, with a place to retreat for humidity. Just thought I'd say that because I remembered it from the few days I was on their forums.

[boosh96]

What's the best way to achieve a bioactive substrate in a monitor enclosure? Like one with bugs already in the soil and bacteria that help break down waste and stuff like that?

[smy_749]

What's the best way to achieve a bioactive substrate in a monitor enclosure? Like one with bugs already in the soil and bacteria that help break down waste and stuff like that?

Thats basically the definition of bioactive substrate, if it doesn't have stuff like that in it to break down waste and stuff like that, ....its not bioactive.

Like whats the best type of car to buy, I want one with 4 wheels and door and a steering wheel :-P.

Get soil from outside and some leaf liter. Done.

[jarich]

Not quite that easy, but thats a good start. Its pretty simple to order things like isopods, springtails, earthworms etc to put in the soil though. All these help with the breakdown of the wastes and the bioactivity of the soil. The leaf litter is essential though as you need to provide ground cover for all the little beasties that help with the wastes.

[smy_749]

Not quite that easy, but thats a good start. Its pretty simple to order things like isopods, springtails, earthworms etc to put in the soil though. All these help with the breakdown of the wastes and the bioactivity of the soil. The leaf litter is essential though as you need to provide ground cover for all the little beasties that help with the wastes.

I just didn't include that because he said he wanted one with bugs in it so I figured he was going to get those anyways. Almost any log I lift up around here has sow bugs, millipedes, and whatever else. Maybe I should have said, grab some soil, leaf litter, and a few old pieces of wood. They most probably will have alot of the little beasties.

[jarich]

The problem with most of those bugs in your area is that they wont last very long inside a monitor enclosure. Depends on where you are from of course, but monitor enclosures are too hot for normal bugs from my area to thrive in, or at least that has been my experience.

[smy_749]

The problem with most of those bugs in your area is that they wont last very long inside a monitor enclosure. Depends on where you are from of course, but monitor enclosures are too hot for normal bugs from my area to thrive in, or at least that has been my experience.

I put them in my GTP's enclosure and they do great because its not really hot, especially at the bottom where they all hang out under the layer of spaghnum. The moni enclosure I have to agree, but ants do great lol