Still hasn't shed.

[TheSuppishOne]

So, it's now been an entire week since my little guy's eyes cleared, and 10 days since his eyes went blue. Still no sign of a shed. I have not been handling him. I fed him on Friday and he ate like a champ. I didn't handle him for two days after feeding like everybody has said. Left him alone entirely except to change his water. Humidity has been at 70-80% constantly and temps have been maintained in their ideal range.

Now I just don't know what to do. I'm gonna start soaking him and/or wet pillow-casing him, but my concern is that even when I have seen him rubbing his face on hard stuff, he's quite slow and seemingly lazy about it, and when I try to soak him, he just sits there. He has yet to soak at all in his water bowl, which is easily big enough to fit his entire body. I know he's a boa so he's not as energetic as this guy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qj4gNxwBv8

but I don't know what's going on. His enclosure is pretty bare bones, so there's NO WAY I missed the skin. I haven't even found pieces.

What do I do? Continue to simply wait? Is there anything else I can do?

Please help.

(If possible, I would appreciate if you did so without insulting me.)

[TeaNinja]

keep it humid and wait it out :P nothing you can do except give him optimal conditions and let him do his thing.

[KORBIN5895]

He is a snake so leave him alone.

[lady_bug87]

^^^ this.

I really don't know why some keepers are so obsessed with micro managing their collection. Its complete instinct for them to shed. Just let nature take its course.

[TheSuppishOne]

There are two main reasons.

1. Because he's my first. (I'm going to nearly be a hypochondriac as a first time parent of a human child, haha.)
2. Because he's a baby. Is it really instinct for them to shed? It's not something that has to be learned?

[lady_bug87]

Lol don't worry about being hypochondriac. It passes and resurfaces as you keep going. And yes I'd say its hard wired instinct.

Just make sure your husbandry is correct

[Starbuck]

soaking/pillowcasing etc work when there are pieces of stuck shed/problem shedding. Since it seems like he hasnt even 'broken the seal yet' lol i dont think they would help anything. They certainly wont be a catalyst to start the shed. I imagine in a few days you'll be posting pics of your kids new colors :)

My kingsnake sheds 4 days after clearing, no fail; but one of my corns went almost 2 weeks after clearing up before i found a skin. Every snake is different. I think it also depends on how much they are growing.

[Terranaut]

Just leave him. He will shed on his own in time.

[moshirimon]

Snakes and other reptiles are born with instinct. Shedding does not have to be learned, I've had snakes go a long time before shedding even after blue. Keep his conditions right, and hell surprise you with fresh new skin soon enough.

[smy_749]

There are two main reasons.

1. Because he's my first. (I'm going to nearly be a hypochondriac as a first time parent of a human child, haha.)
2. Because he's a baby. Is it really instinct for them to shed? It's not something that has to be learned?

Who do you suppose is supposed to teach them in the wild? Keep it humid enough and give him something to rub on. Too often people stress, lift all the hides, change everything around, handle the animal, try to 'help him' , and this is what ends up killing him, and then they think he died from whatever they were worried about. Stress is a major issue, and shedding is already pissy time for them. Keep his husbandry right, and forget you have him for a bit (not too long :P)

[TheSuppishOne]

soaking/pillowcasing etc work when there are pieces of stuck shed/problem shedding. Since it seems like he hasnt even 'broken the seal yet' lol i dont think they would help anything. They certainly wont be a catalyst to start the shed.

This is another thing I was wondering about; whether the soaking and stuff was only meant for after the initial shed. You even answered the question I neglected to ask! =D

[TheSuppishOne]

Who do you suppose is supposed to teach them in the wild? Keep it humid enough and give him something to rub on. Too often people stress, lift all the hides, change everything around, handle the animal, try to 'help him' , and this is what ends up killing him, and then they think he died from whatever they were worried about. Stress is a major issue, and shedding is already pissy time for them. Keep his husbandry right, and forget you have him for a bit (not too long :P)

Can stress kill a snake?? I mean, I know it can make them not want to eat, but if they're eating, can they die simply from being "too stressed"?

[DeadlyDesires]

he will be fine. When my boa goes into shed i just let her be. never touch her,bother her, or really even look at her. i figure when she sheds she sheds, i know my husbandry is correct so i have nothing to worry about, and i have never had any issues.

[smy_749]

Can stress kill a snake?? I mean, I know it can make them not want to eat, but if they're eating, can they die simply from being "too stressed"?

Stress is like aids. It won't in itself kill the snake (I think), but may cause other illnesses,weakened immune system, going off feeding, etc.

[Terranaut]

Soooooo to sum it all up. Leave it alone. Leave it's enclosure alone. Keep the husbandry right and the snake will shed. Just be patient.

[TheSuppishOne]

Yeah. That's what I'm doing. He hasn't pooped or peed yet, either. I'm simply concerned.

But, I'll continue to be patient.

[Terranaut]

Sorry if we are ramming the patients thing but we have had members forcefeed animals and do other wierd things that they had no buisness doing. Unlike you they did not listen to the sites advice and actually killed thier animals. They only need your help if your husbandry is off. You will giggle at this a year from now ;)

[TheSuppishOne]

Oh the last thing I would ever do is try to force anything. I'll keep the feeding schedule and keep my husbandry correct and just let him live. The hardest part is that I don't want to handle him until the damn shed happens. I'm stuck with a pet that I can't...pet... Kinda defeats the purpose. THAT'S why I'm impatient.

So now I just stare at him from a distance like a creepy pervert. =P

[lady_bug87]

Get used to it. There are going to be a LOT of times when you *CAN'T* touch him for various reasons and believe me, he's going to be waaayyy more OK with that than you will be.

[smy_749]

Oh the last thing I would ever do is try to force anything. I'll keep the feeding schedule and keep my husbandry correct and just let him live. The hardest part is that I don't want to handle him until the damn shed happens. I'm stuck with a pet that I can't...pet... Kinda defeats the purpose. THAT'S why I'm impatient.

So now I just stare at him from a distance like a creepy pervert. =P

It doesn't defeat the purpose at all. Maybe for you, but reptiles aren't domesticated animals that enjoy the company of humans (some may argue with regards to tegus/iguanas etc.) You can still admire him in his cage, watch his behavior. And you are learning so you don't make silly mistakes with future animals. You also get to enjoy watching him grow into an adult.

[bcr229]

Oh the last thing I would ever do is try to force anything. I'll keep the feeding schedule and keep my husbandry correct and just let him live. The hardest part is that I don't want to handle him until the damn shed happens. I'm stuck with a pet that I can't...pet... Kinda defeats the purpose. THAT'S why I'm impatient.

So now I just stare at him from a distance like a creepy pervert. =P
This is why you have several, there's usually at least one that isn't shedding or hasn't just eaten, so you can handle it. :D

[TheSuppishOne]

This is why you have several, there's usually at least one that isn't shedding or hasn't just eaten, so you can handle it. :D

Lol. Maybe I should've just bought the Herpstat 4 and been done with it. =P

But I only bought the Herpstat 1, and can't afford another huge purchase like this guy. Maybe in a year or so... (The next will DEFINITELY be a BRB. I saw one in person and that shimmery iridescence is just too gorgeous.)

[Snakesitter]

Having an extra outlet on your stat is always useful. :-) Next time you buy, move up one level to plan ahead for future acquisitions -- so long as you plan more snakes, it really saves money in the long run.

Re Brazilians, no idea what you mean. ;-)

[TheSuppishOne]

No shed yet. He's been in his hot-spot hide for 3 days solid, now. No activity at night whatsoever. (I'm up until 1 every night for my job, so I should be able to see him moving...right?) Refused a meal, but I'll try again next Wednesday. Only handled him once in the past week. I'm starting to think I must've imagined his blue and cloudy eyed stage...

Stressful for the snake? Snakes are more stressful to the human!

[Mark Taylor]

Frustration hahahah. Just leave him alone he will be OK. Just check temps and humidity and offer food as usual.

[TheSuppishOne]

Okay, here's a question. Boas are nocturnal, right? When exactly do nocturnal animals start to move around/become active?

[DeadlyDesires]

Okay, here's a question. Boas are nocturnal, right? When exactly do nocturnal animals start to move around/become active?


dusk and dawn i believe. but my BCI doesn't really move too much, she likes her hides.

[KORBIN5895]

Okay, here's a question. Boas are nocturnal, right? When exactly do nocturnal animals start to move around/become active?

He probably doesn't feel comfortable with you there.

[Lankyrob]

Whilst we are sat quietly in our living room where the snakes are they will explore their vivs but if i stand up some of them will disappear very quickly. If you are moving around near the viv then there is a good chance you wont see it. Most snakess are Diurnal (active dusk and dawn) rather than nocturnal.

[DeadlyDesires]

Whilst we are sat quietly in our living room where the snakes are they will explore their vivs but if i stand up some of them will disappear very quickly. If you are moving around near the viv then there is a good chance you wont see it. Most snakess are Diurnal (active dusk and dawn) rather than nocturnal.


SCORE!! i was right lol :P...but seriously, my snake runs when she sees me too. lol

[TheSuppishOne]

I read somewhere that snakes feel vibrations... Well in my case I'm on the top floor of an apartment complex where the parking garage is 2 floors underneath us, and right off two main streets. So the apartment seems to "vibrate" almost constantly. I put the quotes because it's never enough for me to even notice, but the windows rattle to some extent and I'm sure a snake would feel that.

Is that the case? Could this be a source of his shyness?

[DeadlyDesires]

I read somewhere that snakes feel vibrations... Well in my case I'm on the top floor of an apartment complex where the parking garage is 2 floors underneath us, and right off two main streets. So the apartment seems to "vibrate" almost constantly. I put the quotes because it's never enough for me to even notice, but the windows rattle to some extent and I'm sure a snake would feel that.

Is that the case? Could this be a source of his shyness?


if it is he will adapt to it, just let him be and he will warm up to you on his own terms.

[Mark Taylor]

Snakes are sensitive to vibrations not sure if its a source of his shyness more likely he is stressed.

[TheSuppishOne]

This is the weirdest thing to be excited about, but he POOPED today! =D

Also, when I noticed he pooped, naturally I went to change his substrate, and had to pull him out to do so. Upon getting him out, I noticed that a tiny part of his tail skin was peeling off! Beginnings of shed!?

Question though. Is it normal for the tail skin to have started peeling before he gets his face skin off? Isn't the face skin supposed to come off first?

[DeadlyDesires]

This is the weirdest thing to be excited about, but he POOPED today! =D

Also, when I noticed he pooped, naturally I went to change his substrate, and had to pull him out to do so. Upon getting him out, I noticed that a tiny part of his tail skin was peeling off! Beginnings of shed!?

Question though. Is it normal for the tail skin to have started peeling before he gets his face skin off? Isn't the face skin supposed to come off first?


usually its from head to tail, what is your humidity at?

[TheSuppishOne]

Roughly 70%. Give or take 5%.

[DeadlyDesires]

how are you measuring it?

[TheSuppishOne]

With this.

Extech 445713 Big Digit Indoor/Outdoor Hygro-Thermometer - Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/Extech-445713-Indoor-Outdoor-Hygro-Thermometer/dp/B000WTH3NQ/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top)

The unit itself measures in the middle top of the enclosure, and the probe is in the cool side hide. Obviously the probe measures a bit lower for temp and humidity, but the hot side is measured by the probe from the Herpstat.

[TheSuppishOne]

Just fyi. This is the finished enclosure. You can see the probe on the bottom left. The unit top middle. The cave looking thing is the hot side, and the Herpstat (currently on night drop mode at 85 degrees) probe is directly underneath, taped in the center of the Ultratherm heat mat. Flint is currently resting on the wooden log hide on the cool side. I see skin starting to flake.

http://i49.tinypic.com/4smm15.jpg

The humidity is a bit low because I just took the top off to mist the enclosure for tonight.

[Mark Taylor]

If its flaking of he is dry you need to up humidity.

[Snakesitter]

This is the weirdest thing to be excited about, but he POOPED today! =D
These events will be exciting again when you're 90. ;-)

Jokes aside, glad to see a good sign. Check again for sheds, however, because they often wait to go as they shed...at least rainbows do.

[DeadlyDesires]

If its flaking of he is dry you need to up humidity.

from 72%? how much higher should it be? i keep my BCI at 70% when she is shedding never had any issues... i've heard higher and heard lower too so i get confused sometimes lol..

[DeadlyDesires]

Just fyi. This is the finished enclosure. You can see the probe on the bottom left. The unit top middle. The cave looking thing is the hot side, and the Herpstat (currently on night drop mode at 85 degrees) probe is directly underneath, taped in the center of the Ultratherm heat mat. Flint is currently resting on the wooden log hide on the cool side. I see skin starting to flake.

http://i49.tinypic.com/4smm15.jpg

The humidity is a bit low because I just took the top off to mist the enclosure for tonight.

have you considered trying a nice sand/soil mixture instead of paper towels? it holds humidity so much better and i've never had any issues with shedding.

[KORBIN5895]

have you considered trying a nice sand/soil mixture instead of paper towels? it holds humidity so much better and i've never had any issues with shedding.

It's in quarantine.

[DeadlyDesires]

It's in quarantine.


oh ok, why?

[KORBIN5895]

To male sure it doesn't have mites, internal parasites or an ri.

[DeadlyDesires]

To male sure it doesn't have mites, internal parasites or an ri.


aah ok, i understand thanks :D

[TheSuppishOne]

Well, my worst fear happened. The shed is coming off in pieces. I'm not happy about this.

Granted, I'm happy that I'm finally seeing the skin coming off, but I don't know. It started really kicking into gear yesterday when I upped the ambient temps, so maybe that was the problem. Last night after holding him for a bit and giving him a soak, I put him back into his enclosure and he just started rubbing his face against EVERYTHING. I took it as a good sign. In all honesty it may have been all the crazy factors (previous husbandry, new house, baby snake, noob owner) combined.

Nevertheless, I will be happy that he has shed, eaten, and pooped (twice), and will continue chugging along. I'll just hope that his next shed will be better. =]

[stephanbakir]

I haven't had a full shed from my snakes in over a year, mind you, it's rare to get full sheds from big snakes but still, as long as the eye caps came off, you should be happy :p
Check your humidity and temps then keep chugging.

[Starbuck]

glad he started to shed :)
I too would chalk it up to new house, new owner, new place, etc, and i guess we'll see in a few weeks with shed #2

[TheSuppishOne]

Eye caps aren't off yet. He seems to be shedding in reverse; from tail to face.

Thank you for the reassurance. I feel like a terrible parent and I needed a bit of encouragement.

[Terranaut]

Time for a warm bath and a rub down with a soft cloth or facecloth. Let the snake move through your hand with the cloth in it . It will come off. So back to your humidity...it's low. Doesn't matter what youe guage told you. The snake is telling you it's low. Close off most of those holes especially the ones on the top and get something in there to keep the moisture up.

[TheSuppishOne]

Yep. I made a sphagnum moss hide today and there was a 70% long piece in it. =D

[Snakesitter]

^^ Good move! ^^

[TheSuppishOne]

Yep. Now there's just his head. The top 2 inches of his head and "neck" (lol) are still on there. And when I try to hold him with a wet towel, he doesn't move enough. Ugh.

[TeaNinja]

a good way is to just soak a pillow case and put them inside and let them cruise around on their own for a few minutes and it usually rubs right off.

[Terranaut]

a good way is to just soak a pillow case and put them inside and let them cruise around on their own for a few minutes and it usually rubs right off.

This is a great way to kill your snake. Stuff a wet cloth in your mouth and try to breath. A wet pillow case will not allow air to flow into the bag and could hurt your snake. Use a small tub and put an inch or 2 of warm water in it. Drop in the snake and close the lid (with air holes of course) leave it for 30 min and then got at it with a damp facecloth.

[DeadlyDesires]

This is a great way to kill your snake. Stuff a wet cloth in your mouth and try to breath. A wet pillow case will not allow air to flow into the bag and could hurt your snake. Use a small tub and put an inch or 2 of warm water in it. Drop in the snake and close the lid (with air holes of course) leave it for 30 min and then got at it with a damp facecloth.


I have heard several people say this but i have never tried or needed to try it but i wouldn't anyway just because of this reason, i am super worried i would suffocate my snakes :-/

[stephanbakir]

This is a great way to kill your snake. Stuff a wet cloth in your mouth and try to breath. A wet pillow case will not allow air to flow into the bag and could hurt your snake. Use a small tub and put an inch or 2 of warm water in it. Drop in the snake and close the lid (with air holes of course) leave it for 30 min and then got at it with a damp facecloth.

I've got a project for you, get a warm wet towel and wrap it around your face.
It ps actually quite a nice feeling if you aren't claustrophobic...



Use a temp gun!
I use the pillow case method with my retics and my scrubs when they need it, but generally they shed fine.

[Terranaut]

I've got a project for you, get a warm wet towel and wrap it around your face.
It ps actually quite a nice feeling if you aren't claustrophobic...



Use a temp gun!
I use the pillow case method with my retics and my scrubs when they need it, but generally they shed fine.


;) That was good. I love a warm cloth on the face. When I was in Japan I had one before every meal. They hand you one when you sit down to clean up with before you eat. I thought that was awesome.

Towels are loose weave but most pillow cases are not so my return project for you is to wet a pillow case and pull it over your head. Now seal it around your neck to simulate the big knot when your snake is in there. now wait the amount of time you would leave your snake in there :)
Actually don't try it...seriously don't ,but they do not breath much at all.

[TheSuppishOne]

I had a history teacher once tell me that he accidentally told a waiter one day that he loved putting "sanitary napkins" on his face when they were wet. He was thinking of those wet-nap lemon scented things, but the waiter gave him QUITE the disturbed look, lmao.

[stephanbakir]

;) That was good. I love a warm cloth on the face. When I was in Japan I had one before every meal. They hand you one when you sit down to clean up with before you eat. I thought that was awesome.

Towels are loose weave but most pillow cases are not so my return project for you is to wet a pillow case and pull it over your head. Now seal it around your neck to simulate the big knot when your snake is in there. now wait the amount of time you would leave your snake in there :)
Actually don't try it...seriously don't ,but they do not breath much at all.

Tried it IN my sauna this morning... Was awesome.

[KORBIN5895]

Are we forgetting that a humans respiratory capability far surpasses what a snake is capable of?

[Terranaut]

Tried it IN my sauna this morning... Was awesome.
Putting a sack over someones head during interrogations and then wetting it has been practiced by many over the years. Ask the question = no answer = bucket of water over the head = panic as the person can't breath. I would never use a bag. Just not worth the risk IMHO. Unless your snake is suicidal it will not drown in a tub so to me this is the better way to go .

[TheSuppishOne]

Well I came home from "vacation" today (4 days in Ohio for my wife's family reunion) hoping that Flint would've gotten his last little bit of shed off, but to no avail. The top part of his head is still dull and needing to shed. As far as I can tell, he shed one eye-cap, but not the other, and the bottom part of his face/neck is also shed. It's just the top portion.

So now I begin the soaks. According to you all, I just put him in a container/bathtub with about an inch or two of water, and leave him there for 20-30 minutes, then try to rub his face with a damp washcloth? He REALLY hates my trying to rub his head, but I'll keep at it.

Is this a once a day until it comes off procedure, or should I do it more/less frequently than that?

[TheSuppishOne]

Also, he peed on me after soaking. Little jerkface. Lol, but I know that being in the pool makes me have to pee as well, so I won't begrudge him this. =P

[DeadlyDesires]

maybe you should try upping your humidity

[Terranaut]

Ok if you have tried all of that and it's still there leave it. Work on the next shed. Get the humidity up. A small snake like yours will shed before you ever have to worry about scale rot so next meal get some serious moisture in there. The retained shed Should come off with the next shed provided husbandry is correct or above normal humidity. Don't wait for blue this time. After the shed get the humidity back to normal. One bad shed is fine , it happens. A few bad sheds is harmful but not one.

[smy_749]

This might be a tad bit off topic, but I just received a neonate GTP with bits of stuck shed all over, including the end of the tail. I opted not to fidget around with him, hes very bitey and I don't like to mess with the babays because I have shakey hands. Anyways, the moisture is 85 - 99 (a bit high I'm aware) but the shed is coming off piece by piece on the leafs and branches. I think the next shed should take care of it.

Provide high humidity and stuff for him to rub on and just leave him alone if you couldn't get it off by bothering him and picking at him. If the next shed is problematic then worry about it more.

[TheSuppishOne]

Gotcha. As long as it's not harmful to him, I'm okay with whatever happens. =] Humidity is now maintained around 80%.

[Terranaut]

Well eye caps are not good to leave on but at that age they shed often so I would wait one more shed and if they are still not coming off let us know and we can explain how to remove it from the eye.

[Snakesitter]

Ok if you have tried all of that and it's still there leave it. Work on the next shed.
I agree. The stress it will cause is not worth it when it will likely correct with the next shed anyway.

As another suggestion, if the snake does not have a rock in its viv to help with starting sheds, you might want to add one.

Good luck!

[TheSuppishOne]

UPDATE.

Went to the vet today with general concerns and questions. She noticed his (lack of) shed and asked what I'd done, then gave me some advice. She told me to take a q-tip, wet it thoroughly and just start rubbing it against his nose to try to get the shed off. Plus, she told me that snakes' scales are actually directional, so trying to rub from back to front may be too harsh and could possibly take off scales.

Well, Flint wouldn't let me focus his nose too much, so I went from back to front anyway (VERY carefully and slowly), and...

http://i40.tinypic.com/2yyaufo.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/suzf2f.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/ojimg7.jpg

YAY!!!

I had to wet the q-tips OVER AND OVER because his shed skin would just absorb all the moisture, then peel up, but it was so worth it. And the eye caps came off very easily, too. As a bonus, I had to get REALLY close to his face with mine, and he seemed to mellow out after feeling what I was doing. It was as if he trusted me to not hurt him. (Again, not saying he was bonding with me or anything, but it was as if he trusted me enough to not eat him.)

Anyway, full shed complete. Let's see what happens next time, lol. =D

[TheSuppishOne]

Oh, and I'm so upset that these pictures can't pick up his shimmer, but let me tell you, Dumeril's have a very comparable iridescence to BRBs. It's downright spectacular in the sun.

[Starbuck]

nice pokemon backsplash- love it :)

Did the vet comment at all on the spiraling behavior?

[smy_749]

UPDATE.

Went to the vet today with general concerns and questions. She noticed his (lack of) shed and asked what I'd done, then gave me some advice. She told me to take a q-tip, wet it thoroughly and just start rubbing it against his nose to try to get the shed off. Plus, she told me that snakes' scales are actually directional, so trying to rub from back to front may be too harsh and could possibly take off scales.

Well, Flint wouldn't let me focus his nose too much, so I went from back to front anyway (VERY carefully and slowly), and...

http://i40.tinypic.com/2yyaufo.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/suzf2f.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/ojimg7.jpg

YAY!!!

I had to wet the q-tips OVER AND OVER because his shed skin would just absorb all the moisture, then peel up, but it was so worth it. And the eye caps came off very easily, too. As a bonus, I had to get REALLY close to his face with mine, and he seemed to mellow out after feeling what I was doing. It was as if he trusted me to not hurt him. (Again, not saying he was bonding with me or anything, but it was as if he trusted me enough to not eat him.)

Anyway, full shed complete. Let's see what happens next time, lol. =D

GTP did that as well a few days ago. As soon as I finished he nailed me 3 or 4 times in a row.

[TheSuppishOne]

nice pokemon backsplash- love it :)

Thank you! =D

But... it's not a backsplash. That, my friend, is the inspiration I had after my wife (girlfriend at the time) gave me a holographic Charizard card for our first Christmas together. I turned it into a picture frame containing all of the cards for the original 151 Pokemon, plus the Ancient Mew promo card from the first movie. All near-mint or better. A fun month on eBay. :D

Did the vet comment at all on the spiraling behavior?

She said it could be a neurological issue, which may be able to be diagnosed if I want to get blood work done, but she said to really pay attention to it for the next week and tell her how often and when it happens. If it's not too frequently, she said not to worry.

She did mention IBD, but she said there's no reason whatsoever for her to try to test for it, since the tests aren't 100% and since it's my only reptile, I don't even necessarily need to know because I won't be risking any others in my collection. She said that if it is IBD, he'll eventually get bad and need to be euthanized, but I should enjoy him in the meantime. She also said it looks most like he was just freaked out about how deep the water was and how big the tub was. She said that she has even seen snakes drown in bathtubs, which I didn't think was physically possible since a snake should always be able to hold its head up...

Nevertheless, she gave me a cup for a fecal sample to test for parasites, and sexed him for me as well. He is, in fact, a he. =P

[TheSuppishOne]

GTP did that as well a few days ago. As soon as I finished he nailed me 3 or 4 times in a row.

Lol. I've always heard that GTPs are biting machines.

[Snakesitter]

Glad to hear the shed treatment worked. Hopefully it all turns out to have been a stress reaction!

[TheSuppishOne]

To be honest, if he was in a tub where the water was too deep for him to touch, PLUS he still had his eye caps on? I wouldn't be surprised at all that he was turning upside down.

[rocknhorse76]

Good looking little Dum. Hopefully he doesn't have IBD, and its merely stress-related.