Introducing...

[Lickeypie]

Introducing.... Zara my new female pastel :)

http://25.media.tumblr.com/f8260a41c9b90ef2fcfabd8ddd2a3b37/tumblr_mk3f56CJN31qen9jzo1_1280.jpg

[Freebody]

oh very nice! grats.

[franks]

Is that the lighting, or is she really that orange? Congrats on the lil lady

[Lickeypie]

It's probably the lighting! I'll take better pics once shes more acclimated :)

[mykee]

So I see you're not a fan or quarantine, eh?

[Lickeypie]

I see you need a new hobby ;)

[mykee]

I think that if you practice poor quarantine, it's you that needs the new hobby. For the health of your snakes.

[Mark Taylor]

I completely agree with mykee on this..:pissedoff::pissedoff::pissedoff:

[rmfsnakes32]

I have to say I agree to. If that new snake has any diseases your current snake will get it and your going to risk illness or worst case scenario two dead snakes. Poor judgement IMO!

[Theweinz]

So I see you're not a fan or quarantine, eh?

I'm still laughing about the comment... however, no matter the inconvenience, it should be done!

[Lickeypie]

Wasn't sure if it still applied, I bought both from the same breeder, less than a month apart :S

[KORBIN5895]

May I ask why the chips are blue and do you cohab them?

[lady_bug87]

Wasn't sure if it still applied, I bought both from the same breeder, less than a month apart :S

It ALWAYS applies.

[bcr229]

It's probably the lighting! I'll take better pics once shes more acclimated :)
Would love to see pics in natural light, I thought she was incredibly orange as well!

[Lickeypie]

Korbin, the "chips" are aspen (all my pets use aspen). And no, they are not housed together.

I colored each individual chip with blue sharipe. But really, the bedding is Fluker's colored aspen bedding. Its 100% all natural aspen. The dye is non toxic and reptile safe, also the dyes do not bleed.

[KORBIN5895]

Korbin, the "chips" are aspen (all my pets use aspen). And no, they are not housed together.

I colored each individual chip with blue sharipe. But really, the bedding is Fluker's colored aspen bedding. Its 100% all natural aspen. The dye is non toxic and reptile safe, also the dyes do not bleed.

Out of curiosity..... why are they even in the same enclosure if you don't house them together?

[Lickeypie]

Out of curiosity..... why are they even in the same enclosure if you don't house them together?

You couldn't criticize me about the aspen, so now another question? If you have more questions, you'll have to set up an appointment ;)

[KORBIN5895]

You couldn't criticize me about the aspen, so now another question? If you have more questions, you'll have to set up an appointment ;)

I could criticize you about all kinds of things bit instead I choose to ask you questions so we can help you. If you think your above help then we will bring you back down to earth.

But wait! You're new so you obviously know how everything works. Silly of me to think you wouldn't know something! It's obvious with your stellar quarantine practices you really know your stuff.

[mykee]

She's gonna take the elevator down out of her Ivory Tower and you're gonna get it Kevin.
I'll criticize you about the aspen; don't use a coloured one, you have ZERO idea what's in it or how your snake will react to it.
Common sense Little Miss Know-It-All.

[Lickeypie]

Thanks for helping Korbin, I do appreciate it, I wish there was less hostility on this forum. I actually do have a question about husbandry, does it matter if the bins are colored? The quarantine was an honest mistake :c

Mykee, my daddy calls me a little miss know-it-all... but you can call me princess ;)

About the aspen, I do know exactly what's in it... labels say a lot. But you do have a point, I have no idea how a certain animal will react.

http://www.flukerfarms.com/images/products/detail/8QtAspenRed.1.jpg

[Aaron_S]

That looks like the biggest money grabber out of a reptile company I've seen in awhile.

I get huge bags for probably less than that one that would last you an entire year or more.

Aside from that, you're a fool to believe everything you see on a label...especially on reptile products.

[Lickeypie]

That looks like the biggest money grabber out of a reptile company I've seen in awhile.

I get huge bags for probably less than that one that would last you an entire year or more.

Aside from that, you're a fool to believe everything you see on a label...especially on reptile products.

Does the price really matter? If I want something aesthetically pleasing, then by all means, I can pay for it. However, what really matters... if you can tell me a hazard from this please, let me know. Instead of telling me that I'm a "fool" for buying colored aspen, prove it. I will keep using it unless it is harmful towards my animals. Please don't nit pick for the hell of it.

NOTE: I bake the aspen first to prevent mites.

[e] I'm not an idiot, I buy bulk aspen from a farm store. But I saw the colored chips and I was mesmerized. c:

[lady_bug87]

Snake mites don't live in aspen. If you find mites in the aspen chances are they're wood mites

[Aaron_S]

Does the price really matter? If I want something aesthetically pleasing, then by all means, I can pay for it. However, what really matters... if you can tell me a hazard from this please, let me know. Instead of telling me that I'm a "fool" for buying colored aspen, prove it. I will keep using it unless it is harmful towards my animals. Please don't nit pick for the hell of it.

NOTE: I bake the aspen first to prevent mites.

[e] I'm not an idiot, I buy bulk aspen from a farm store. But I saw the colored chips and I was mesmerized. c:

Just any mites or snake mites?

If it's snake mites you're still a fool. How does a mite get into that sealed bag? How about how does it survive for any length of time even if it does? They solely live off blood.

As I said, you shouldn't take the label or the sale pitch on the front of the bag as full truth. Do you know the legislation upon reptile products and what they have to put into their product to say certain things? Just because they say "it doesn't bleed" doesn't make it so. Or the fact that it is completely non-toxic for them.

I don't believe pine shavings have any kind of warning on them to stop someone from keeping their reptiles on them due to the oils I believe. Lots of products say are great to use, like hot rocks for example. I'd just question it is all.

Do you know what kind of dye they use? Certain dyes in certain products (not saying this one) can cause serious illnesses. The red dye in maraschino cherries are linked to cancer? Do you know about these ones? It's wise to look into them. What if your snake digests a piece or pieces?

[Lickeypie]

Just any mites or snake mites?

If it's snake mites you're still a fool. How does a mite get into that sealed bag? How about how does it survive for any length of time even if it does?


Better safe than sorry. Stop getting so defensive. If you really want to help, you'd prove that this particular brand is harmful. Do you have any evidence? No. If you are able to prove it, then I will respect your opinion.

[mykee]

Why is the honus on us to do the legwork? Your snakes, not ours.
I personally could care less what happens to your snakes, I was just trying to be helpful.
in the 15 years I've been keeping and breeding balls, I've used it all,
but I have never used a coloured substrate.
I'll call you Princess if you call me Big Daddy.

[Lickeypie]

Why is the honus on us to do the legwork? Your snakes, not ours.
I personally could care less what happens to your snakes, I was just trying to be helpful.
in the 15 years I've been keeping and breeding balls, I've used it all,
but I have never used a coloured substrate.
I'll call you Princess if you call me Big Daddy.

I've looked at reviews, everything seems to be okay with the colored except it is known to have mites, which is why I bake it :)

And deal, Big Daddy! :p

[Aaron_S]

I searched for a product label. I couldn't find one on Fluker's website. I don't goto pet stores so I won't be going just to prove myself right here.

I'd consider doing the research as I suggested.

I don't know why you'd openly buy a product apparently known to have mites if you're trying to be "better safe than sorry". What happens if a mite climbs onto you while you put it into the oven? Or off the tray? Or magically flies out of the bag when you open it?

Better safe than sorry.

[Lickeypie]

I dont know much about mites, so you could actually help me out here. Don't all substrates technically have the chance of harboring mites? I know some have higher chances than others but when I buy the bulk aspen and hay, the aspen has holes punched out, does that aspen also have the chance of harboring mites? I was under the assumption that it may. Like I said before, I dont know much about mites. If theyre comparable in a sense of how fleas are to cats and dogs, then they seem like a pain in the butt!

[lady_bug87]

Snake mites cannot live long without a host. They need blood to survive. The mites in the substrate are a different kind and pose no threat to the animal. However, if you bring a snake INFESTED with mites into your collection which has established animals in it and fail to use proper quarantine they can spread pretty easily.

[Aaron_S]

I dont know much about mites, so you could actually help me out here. Don't all substrates technically have the chance of harboring mites? I know some have higher chances than others but when I buy the bulk aspen and hay, the aspen has holes punched out, does that aspen also have the chance of harboring mites? I was under the assumption that it may. Like I said before, I dont know much about mites. If theyre comparable in a sense of how fleas are to cats and dogs, then they seem like a pain in the butt!

Only wood substrates have any chance of harbouring WOOD mites. They are harmless to reptiles but may just be annoying to the keeper.

Let's differentiate between the two for other new people.

Any other substrate choice should not contain mites. Paper towel, newspaper etc.

As mentioned, snake mites need a host to survive. I believe they can't live without food for 48 hours.

They are indeed a pain in the butt.

[red ink]

Korbin, the "chips" are aspen (all my pets use aspen). And no, they are not housed together.

I colored each individual chip with blue sharipe. But really, the bedding is Fluker's colored aspen bedding. Its 100% all natural aspen. The dye is non toxic and reptile safe, also the dyes do not bleed.

Was the ink from the sharpie non toxic to reptiles?

How does the dye react to prolonged heat exposure? Does it gas out?

What do they mean reptile safe in which way, as in not sharp and cut them or safe for ingestion or just generally reptile safe?

[Lickeypie]

Was the ink from the sharpie non toxic to reptiles?

How does the dye react to prolonged heat exposure? Does it gas out?

What do they mean reptile safe in which way, as in not sharp and cut them or safe for ingestion or just generally reptile safe?

I was being sarcastic with the sharpie. :p No it does not gas out or bleed when wet. By "safe" the company means it contains no toxic oils- that cedar would.



Aaron: Where would one buy unprinted newspaper?

[Aaron_S]

I was being sarcastic with the sharpie. :p No it does not gas out or bleed when wet. By "safe" the company means it contains no toxic oils- that cedar would.



Aaron: Where would one buy unprinted newspaper?

I dunno. I've never used unprinted newspaper. Try shipping stores like UPS or FedEx.

Also, if it doesn't contain toxic oils and that's all the company says, how are you sure it doesn't gas out? As I said, did you look into the dyes they use or are you taking the company's word for it?

[Lickeypie]

If I feel ambitious tomorrow, perhaps I'll call the customer support. What substrate do you use then Aaron?

Supposing that I do take the company's word, they state that the coloring is all natural. Of course there is a debate (for everything, oh dear) about the impossibility of being genuinely "all natural". USDA certified organic foods are not completely organic. So yeah, what do you consider natural?

[Theweinz]

I dunno. I've never used unprinted newspaper. Try shipping stores like UPS or FedEx.

Also, if it doesn't contain toxic oils and that's all the company says, how are you sure it doesn't gas out? As I said, did you look into the dyes they use or are you taking the company's word for it?

For unprinted newspaper try uline.com they have all sorts of paper products. I use their indented Kraft paper for substrate it tends to absorb liquid waste and makes clean ups easier.

[Aaron_S]

If I feel ambitious tomorrow, perhaps I'll call the customer support. What substrate do you use then Aaron?

Supposing that I do take the company's word, they state that the coloring is all natural. Of course there is a debate (for everything, oh dear) about the impossibility of being genuinely "all natural". USDA certified organic foods are not completely organic. So yeah, what do you consider natural?

Nothing is natural that we buy. I just do my best to use the most non-harmful product. I do not believe coloured substrate would be my choice. Ever.

I use newspapers that I get. It's a specific one that uses thick paper and the ink doesn't run and it's vegetable based I believe. I know this because I looked into it and I have yet to see ink on my light coloured snakes.

I've used many other substrates including the one you are. If your snake is in a fish tank I would suggest using a mulch based substrate.

There's good information to find kraft paper in the post above this.

[Lickeypie]

Thanks for the link weinz!

Aaron, where do you get the vegetable based newspaper? Is it your local paper? If so, I wish America was efficient enough to use vegetable based =/

I had one in a 10 gal tank temporarily, but the humidity was a big issue, and I was using a cypress/aspen mix, but the humidity wouldn't keep, so I switched to 17Qt tubs for now.

[mykee]

Princess; unprinted newspaper stock can be found at any moving supply strore. It's primary purpose is to wrap your plates and chinaware prior to a move. It comes in various sizes and will need to be folded or cut down to fit in your bins.
As for wood mites, they come in almost any wood-based substrate. If you have a wood-based substrate, you will likely have wood mites. They are completely 100% harmless to anything that isn't wood.
They're a pain in the ***, but do no real harm to anything.

[franks]

I dunno. I've never used unprinted newspaper. Try shipping stores like UPS or FedEx.

Also, if it doesn't contain toxic oils and that's all the company says, how are you sure it doesn't gas out? As I said, did you look into the dyes they use or are you taking the company's word for it?

Home depot (or any hardware/paint store) sells unprinted rolled recycled brown paper for odd uses.

[mykee]

Brown paper, or Kraft Paper as its called, molds in about 4.2 seconds.

[Lickeypie]

Thanks guys :)

[Aaron_S]

Thanks guys :)

You forgot to call him by name!

Anyway, aspen/mulch is a useless combo. Go straight mulch.

[Lickeypie]

Ooops i meant big daddy!

Should I even bother baking the mulch?

[Lickeypie]

Here's another pic of her.. I'll take some nicer pictures this weekend with my macro lens :3

http://25.media.tumblr.com/35b3c8558e5e75dba4beb08b98012c49/tumblr_mkco3paw681qen9jzo1_1280.jpg

[jarich]

So you called her out for using aspen chips with vegetable dyes made specifically for reptiles because of the possibility that it might not be good for reptiles, and instead suggested newspaper, which is the cheapest paper produced, made from recycled paper of unknown origin, and in no way made for direct contact with any animal? Thats an interesting logic. Since you want to be so picky about the possible issue of this reptile product, do any of you know the chemicals used in recycling paper for newsprint? No, I thought not. If you did, I think youd be less worried about the vegetable dye. Either way, neither one is likely to be any more problematic than the other. Its just simply keeper preference.

Lickeypie, continue using the aspen chips if you like the look of it. Natural dyes are made from vegetables usually; hardly a toxic hazard for your snake. Aspen is an acceptable substrate; the fact that yours is blue or whatever colour seems inconsequential.

As for the mites from the aspen, its not a worry. Though most of the information you were given here about snake mites was wrong, they were right in saying you wont get them from the aspen. The chances of you getting snake mites from the aspen is like lightening striking you kind of small. Wood mites are possible of course, and while these arent harmful to your snake at all, they are a pest. If you dont want the possibility of wood mites you can bake the aspen, but dont do it if the only reason is to protect your snake.

[Hurrok]

Here's another pic of her.. I'll take some nicer pictures this weekend with my macro lens :3

http://25.media.tumblr.com/35b3c8558e5e75dba4beb08b98012c49/tumblr_mkco3paw681qen9jzo1_1280.jpg

Awe she is so cute :) Do you plan on breeding the pair in the future?

[Lickeypie]

Awe she is so cute :) Do you plan on breeding the pair in the future?

Good question, obviously she's no where close to being breeding size, so I guess it gives me quite a bit of time to think about it! But right now, I don't have any intentions on making/buying an incubator, and I'm weary about maternal incubation (and I don't know enough about bp breeding)... But I do love pewter balls, they're one of my favorite morphs :3

I've been trying not to handle her this week, but everytime I change her water, she wants to explore :p

[Aaron_S]

So you called her out for using aspen chips with vegetable dyes made specifically for reptiles because of the possibility that it might not be good for reptiles, and instead suggested newspaper, which is the cheapest paper produced, made from recycled paper of unknown origin, and in no way made for direct contact with any animal? Thats an interesting logic. Since you want to be so picky about the possible issue of this reptile product, do any of you know the chemicals used in recycling paper for newsprint? No, I thought not. If you did, I think youd be less worried about the vegetable dye. Either way, neither one is likely to be any more problematic than the other. Its just simply keeper preference.

Lickeypie, continue using the aspen chips if you like the look of it. Natural dyes are made from vegetables usually; hardly a toxic hazard for your snake. Aspen is an acceptable substrate; the fact that yours is blue or whatever colour seems inconsequential.

As for the mites from the aspen, its not a worry. Though most of the information you were given here about snake mites was wrong, they were right in saying you wont get them from the aspen. The chances of you getting snake mites from the aspen is like lightening striking you kind of small. Wood mites are possible of course, and while these arent harmful to your snake at all, they are a pest. If you dont want the possibility of wood mites you can bake the aspen, but dont do it if the only reason is to protect your snake.

You're so completely jaded to trying to prove me wrong you lost the ability to comprehend and read.

I'll repost my suggestions of what you claim is "newspaper".

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/829414-post37.html

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/829544-post43.html

[jarich]

You're so completely jaded to trying to prove me wrong you lost the ability to comprehend and read.

I'll repost my suggestions of what you claim is "newspaper".

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/829414-post37.html

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/829544-post43.html

Ah, Aaron, always the center of the universe eh? I have no need to prove you wrong, merely a desire to protect new members from unnecessary abuse.

My post was meant to be a general statement, not necessarily in reference to you alone. A new person was harassed over one single valid point, quarantine (a moot point really since it was already done) and when she didnt bow down to your collective greatness, a number of members called her names, and picked at her for any little detail they could find to grasp at. However, in the process they stumbled over a lack of knowledge and showed a complete loss of perspective.

Yes, the new snake should have been quarantined, which the OP admitted. Pretty much everything else after that was arrogance and largely useless.

[Aaron_S]

Ah, Aaron, always the center of the universe eh? I have no need to prove you wrong, merely a desire to protect new members from unnecessary abuse.

My post was meant to be a general statement, not necessarily in reference to you alone. A new person was harassed over one single valid point, quarantine (a moot point really since it was already done) and when she didnt bow down to your collective greatness, a number of members called her names, and picked at her for any little detail they could find to grasp at. However, in the process they stumbled over a lack of knowledge and showed a complete loss of perspective.

Yes, the new snake should have been quarantined, which the OP admitted. Pretty much everything else after that was arrogance and largely useless.

I guess you'll continue to ignore the fact that you were wrong in what was said/suggested.

I guess everything was SO bad that we'll ignore this post as well as the PM where we were thanked by the OP. Stop thinking that I and others, don't help in our own ways.

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/829502-post42.html

[franks]

I think its cool that you try to help anybody with questions or situations "in your own way," but there really is no reason to talk down to and bully OPs who have either made mistakes and/or do things differently then you might. We should be able to have awesome discussions and learn from each other's experiences without resorting to hostile jargon on an internet forum. Not cool.

[jarich]

I guess you'll continue to ignore the fact that you were wrong in what was said/suggested.

I guess everything was SO bad that we'll ignore this post as well as the PM where we were thanked by the OP. Stop thinking that I and others, don't help in our own ways.

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/829502-post42.html

No, we just have a different agenda, Aaron. Unlike you, mine is not to prove you wrong, it's to try to get you to improve your ability to communicate your knowledge without abuse. I'm well aware you have the capability to help others; Ive seen you do so before. I only have issue with the times that you require other members to propitiate you in order to "gain access". Understand, Princess, that no matter how high you think your tower is, there's always a higher tower; so it's good to be nice about it. If a noob doesn't get your advice right away, it's not the noob's fault, it's yours. Learn to communicate better; because believe me, there are times someone is looking at what you write and biting their tongue, just like I'm sure others do with me.

And do some better research on mites, what you said was..disappointing.

[Aaron_S]

No, we just have a different agenda, Aaron. Unlike you, mine is not to prove you wrong, it's to try to get you to improve your ability to communicate your knowledge without abuse. I'm well aware you have the capability to help others; Ive seen you do so before. I only have issue with the times that you require other members to propitiate you in order to "gain access". Understand, Princess, that no matter how high you think your tower is, there's always a higher tower; so it's good to be nice about it. If a noob doesn't get your advice right away, it's not the noob's fault, it's yours. Learn to communicate better; because believe me, there are times someone is looking at what you write and biting their tongue, just like I'm sure others do with me.

And do some better research on mites, what you said was..disappointing.

I believe you're being arrogant in the idea that it's YOUR job to change my ways. Who are you to even take such a task without even talking to me about me? Are you somehow a better person than I am and that gives you the right?

[jarich]

I believe you're being arrogant in the idea that it's YOUR job to change my ways. Who are you to even take such a task without even talking to me about me? Are you somehow a better person than I am and that gives you the right?

Let me see if I understand your reasoning here. You and a few others were bullying a new person for no good reason, so I stepped in, and somehow you think Im the arrogant one?!

We have talked many times about this, you and I. I obviously do not have the ability to change you, nor would I, even if I could. I think you are a pretty smart guy and have the ability to be helpful and considerate. However, you sometimes also seem to enjoy belittling and berating people for some unknown reason. If thats how you want to be, thats your problem; but understand that by being a bully, you make yourself a target.

[franks]

Ten Anti-Bullying Tips ~ The Anti-Bully Blog (http://antibullyingblog.blogspot.com/2011/11/ten-anti-bullying-tips.html)

lol

[lady_bug87]

Ten Anti-Bullying Tips ~ The Anti-Bully Blog (http://antibullyingblog.blogspot.com/2011/11/ten-anti-bullying-tips.html)

lol

Lol for real!