varanus griseus [Archive] - sSNAKESs : Reptile Forum

smy_749

03-22-13, 09:38 PM

Apparently this is the only species of varanus in Jordan, from the Petra/Wadi Rum area of Jordan. I visit Jordan 2 or 3 times a year, however I have never been to Petra/Wadi Rum because it is about 5 hours from the capital, and scorching heat in the middle of nowhere (check the pic). Normally, I just check around closer areas to the capital, I havent seen any snakes but some of the stuff I've seen include various species of agamids (all over the place), LOTS of skinks, frogs, lots of gecko species, and a chameleon species that I can't honestly remember the name of. Anyways, back to the topic, does anyone have experience working with these? They apparently inhabit a pretty large area, going into Egypt, Saudi, and wherever else. Will be going to Jordan this May after graduation :yes: and would like to go to wadi Rum and petra and take pics of my adventure this time.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/Wadi-rum-woestijn.jpg

They have really beautiful pattern, and seem to be a medium sized monitor, is there a reason why they aren't readily available?

http://myreptile.ru/upload/images/13tct.jpg

Also forgot to mention, was on a picnic, and the sun went down. To my delight, I found a camel spider crawling up my buddies leg, about 6 inches long. Never saw one before in the wild, and my excitement didn't last as he preceded to pulverize it with a rock haha

Freebody

03-22-13, 10:35 PM

smy_749

03-23-13, 05:06 AM

perhaps its and import export thing? really sweet looking monitor that's for sure. I was this close to buying a camel spider a couple years ago, but I read they only live a short time in captivity but cant find out why, so I decided not to, they look like aliens eh lol

I'm not huge on keeping insects, just because I have 3 siblings under 6 years old living with me, and my son is only a few months...if someone decided to 'explore' the cage I may be in for some trouble. But yea they are pretty cool, much larger than I expected. They come out at night in the less crowded areas of the capital, and the mountain sides are LITTERED with the burrows they make. After I realized what made the burrows I'll be honest I was a little freaked out at how many there were. The other thing which was all over the place, was a small tan scorpion which I decided to collect a bunch in a bucket...lost the pics, and it turns out I was playing with fire....Israel deathstalker or something like that? lol

http://www.greenbiz.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/wide_large/0310Scorpion.jpg

And that export thing could be possible, but in my experience, Arab countries tend not to follow the rules and if you wanted you could have it exported paying a small bribe...I did manage to see american alligators at the down town pet store.

murrindindi

03-23-13, 11:33 AM

Hi, Varanus griseus are available in the pet trade (at least here in Europe), and there`s been quite a lot of research done on them in the wild, notably by Dr. Alexey Yu Tsellarius (Russia), who studied them in the Kyzylkum desert for 15 years. He`s published a number of articles, several are in English.

smy_749

03-23-13, 11:40 AM

murrindindi

03-23-13, 11:55 AM

Do you have any of them? Can you link me?

Yes, I think I still have two or three of Alexey`s papers, though I don`t think they`re available to read online, you should be able to get them from any decent library (they do a search and charge for each page), it usually only takes a few days. I`ll check through and put the titles up in a few minutes. If you can`t manage to get copies let me know, I`ll be more than happy to mail them to you.
I`m not sure if there`s been any very recent work done on them in the wild, Alexey told me that his work with them stopped when the Soviet Union broke up, he said they treated him like a second class citizen (as far as these types of studies were concerned). I think I might have another article by someone else on some aspects of captive care (I`ll check).

murrindindi

03-23-13, 12:28 PM

These are some of the articles I have, I`m sure I have something on their care in captivity, but whether it`s in a research paper or book I`m not sure (I have well over 200 articles and many books to look through)!

"Aging, longevity and growth of the Desert monitor Lizard (Varanus griseus)".
E. M. Smirina and A. Yu. Tselllarius: Russian Journal of Herpetology, Vol. 3, no.2, pages 130 to 142 (1996).

"Behaviour of Varanus griseus during encounters with conspecifics".
Alexey Yu Tsellarius and Elena Yu Tsellarius: Asiatic Herpetological Research, vol. 7, pages 108 to 130 (1997).

"A radio telemetric study of the body temperature of Varanus griseus in Zaranik Protected Area, North Sinai, Egypt";
Adel A. Ibrahim: Egyptian Journal of Biology, vol.2, pages 57 to 66 (2000).

smy_749

03-23-13, 12:40 PM

Yes, I think I still have two or three of Alexey`s papers, though I don`t think they`re available to read online, you should be able to get them from any decent library (they do a search and charge for each page), it usually only takes a few days. I`ll check through and put the titles up in a few minutes. If you can`t manage to get copies let me know, I`ll be more than happy to mail them to you.
I`m not sure if there`s been any very recent work done on them in the wild, Alexey told me that his work with them stopped when the Soviet Union broke up, he said they treated him like a second class citizen (as far as these types of studies were concerned). I think I might have another article by someone else on some aspects of captive care (I`ll check).

Thanks I appreciate it. Btw is there anyway we can get the FR thread deleted, its getting out of hand now...

murrindindi

03-23-13, 01:43 PM

Thanks I appreciate it. Btw is there anyway we can get the FR thread deleted, its getting out of hand now...

If other members keep making comments it will keep going, if not it won`t. I don`t think it will get deleted.

Barlow

03-23-13, 02:55 PM

Thanks I appreciate it. Btw is there anyway we can get the FR thread deleted, its getting out of hand now...

Why is it out of hand. Because people are disagreeing with you?

Freebody

03-23-13, 04:42 PM

I'm not huge on keeping insects, just because I have 3 siblings under 6 years old living with me, and my son is only a few months...if someone decided to 'explore' the cage I may be in for some trouble. But yea they are pretty cool, much larger than I expected. They come out at night in the less crowded areas of the capital, and the mountain sides are LITTERED with the burrows they make. After I realized what made the burrows I'll be honest I was a little freaked out at how many there were. The other thing which was all over the place, was a small tan scorpion which I decided to collect a bunch in a bucket...lost the pics, and it turns out I was playing with fire....Israel deathstalker or something like that? lol

http://www.greenbiz.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/wide_large/0310Scorpion.jpg

And that export thing could be possible, but in my experience, Arab countries tend not to follow the rules and if you wanted you could have it exported paying a small bribe...I did manage to see american alligators at the down town pet store.
lol yup, just remember with scorpions, the smaller the species they are, the more deadly they are.

smy_749

03-23-13, 05:58 PM

Good to know, so exactly HOW deadly are they? Just curious...we found a few in the house in the summer, but my family has since then moved out of the 'remote' area back to the city so no worries

monitorlizard

03-23-13, 06:08 PM

Why is it out of hand. Because people are disagreeing with you?
LOL

Aren't griseus endangered?

bodiddleyitis

03-25-13, 01:31 AM

smy_749

03-25-13, 05:20 AM

Varanus griseus is CITES Appendix 1. All international commercial trade in the species has been banned for a long time. The reasons for this have nothing to do with conservation, and have been explained elsewhere online

From what I know, they have a VERY VERY large territory, much of it is in the middle east. And from my experiences with the middle east, the meat of monitor is not to be eaten, and arabs NEVER keep reptiles as pets. They live in the deserts in petra where nobody lives, and theres no natural resources out there, so atleast in areas like Jordan/Saudi/Israel, I don't see them becoming endangered any time soon. I will be going to Jordan in May after finishing my last semester, and I'm going to take a trip down to wadi rum for some herping, so I'll let you guys know if I find any! lol

murrindindi

03-25-13, 12:51 PM

smy_749

03-25-13, 02:10 PM

I should have made it clear that the only V. griseus in the pet trade legally are the captive bred ones, and they were available up to a few years ago (they were being bred in the E.U).
There was someone on an English forum that had a pair in 2008. I`m almost sure there were more relatively recently, but can`t remember where I saw them?

Someone named anthony sainz or saintz here in the U.S had them just a few years back, I tried to contact him on fauna but he didn't answer. Hes got a few vids on youtube too of his 1.1 pair

monitorlizard

03-25-13, 02:15 PM

California Breeders Union has a pair:
Californiabreedersunion.com

Anthony Sainz:
Varanus Griseus Griseus "Iran Desert Monitors" - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxH9hJNJe0M)

murrindindi

03-25-13, 02:27 PM

[QUOTE=monitorlizard;829033]California Breeders Union has a pair:
Californiabreedersunion.com

Anthony Sainz:

Hi, thanks for those details, I know they are around, hopefully they`ll be bred, though I imagine the price of the offspring would be quite high (cheaper to buy a new house)! ;)

smy_749

03-25-13, 05:19 PM

Nvm I forgot to scroll down.

Too bad "all offspring are confined to california" I live in CT :-/ and thats if they produce. They are very good looking monitors

murrindindi

03-25-13, 05:39 PM

According to Alexey Tsellarius the have a very complicated "mammal like" social structure in the wild.

smy_749

03-25-13, 06:12 PM

According to Alexey Tsellarius the have a very complicated "mammal like" social structure in the wild.

Yea I found the papers you suggested online, I read something that I thought was interesting but forgot to ask here. One of the research papers said that they babies hatch in the fall, however they do not emerge the underground nesting site until spring (I think it said march I'll go back and check). Is there any other species which hatches in at the START of the cold season, and spends its first few months underground? I found it very odd.

bodiddleyitis

03-26-13, 01:28 AM

Yea I found the papers you suggested online, I read something that I thought was interesting but forgot to ask here. One of the research papers said that they babies hatch in the fall, however they do not emerge the underground nesting site until spring (I think it said march I'll go back and check). Is there any other species which hatches in at the START of the cold season, and spends its first few months underground? I found it very odd.
There aren't any other monitors that live in such harsh conditions: the summers in the central Asian deserts are too hot for lizards and the winters are much too cold. It's possible that the hatchlings only overwinter in their nests in this part of the world and not in north Africa or the easternmost part of their range. The griseus in captivity are animals that have been smuggled back by squaddies and come from Iraq/Qatar. Most reports suggest that they don't survive long unless they are allowed to hibernate.