Timor monitor questions

[Zosime]

I was thinking about getting a timor monitor i did a little reading on it and it seems like a better idea to get one of these than a savannah monitor. So what i was wondering How big should the enclsoure be? What should the basking and humidity temps be, And what should i use for substrate? Also How is their temperment will i be able to hold it or is it going to be super skittish what should i look forword to. I wont get it for awhile so im going to build the enclsoure first so id also like to get some enclsoure ideas.If there are any other monitors out there that stay kind medium and are like 200$ and under i will be willing to learn a bit about it. Im really looking forword to getting a monitor and id like to get all the help i can get.
Thanks for reading..

[jarich]

It might help to have you tell us what made you decide on a Timor. We're there specific things you read about them that appealed to you? Was it something as simple as size or appearance? What is it you really want out of keeping this animal? Also things like how large an area do you have for an enclosure? What is your experience level? This will help us with a suggestion that fits you better.

[Zosime]

It might help to have you tell us what made you decide on a Timor. We're there specific things you read about them that appealed to you? Was it something as simple as size or appearance? What is it you really want out of keeping this animal? Also things like how large an area do you have for an enclosure? What is your experience level? This will help us with a suggestion that fits you better.
It wasthe size and appearance, I really want just to have a active monitor that can be taken out and handled on a regular basis like 1-2 times a week maybe more. I want to be able to take it on a walk thats just something id want to try if i got a monitor iv always just wanted to see peoples faces. Iv only kept a bearded dragon that i have now but im good at paying attention and i usually write down or save all the info i get and read over alot. I know quite a bit about savannah monitors iv wrote down acouple care sheets and read over them alot.

[Aaron_S]

You should PM the member BarelyBreathing. She owns one apparently.

[infernalis]

I want to be able to take it on a walk thats just something id want to try if i got a monitor
iv always just wanted to see peoples faces.


Please don't get ANY monitors......

[Zosime]

Please don't get ANY monitors......
why i dont mean literally walk it on like cement.... they sell those lizard leashes and id take it to like a grassy park and let it rome for like an hour and then bring it home.. Iv seen people take their monitor outside you act like taking it out would be bad im sure people on this fourm have taken their monitor out once...

[lady_bug87]

Do. It. Up.

Make sure you take it somewhere public where you can use it to freak people out or better yet it freaks out and bites someone. Then they can come and destroy it and add varanids to the ban. Sounds awesome.

[Zosime]

Please don't get ANY monitors......
you tell me not to get any yet you have your monitor eating outside?
Savannah Monitor Chows down - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_qnCia0Tx0)

[Valvaren]

you tell me not to get any yet you have your monitor eating outside?
Savannah Monitor Chows down - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_qnCia0Tx0)

The difference is Wayne has acres of private land that he let his monitor enjoy. You want something you can take out in public to get oohs and aahs and freak people out, those are the types of people who get animals for the cool factor and generally end up getting the rest of us in crap.

[Zosime]

The difference is Wayne has acres of private land that he let his monitor enjoy. You want something you can take out in public to get oohs and aahs and freak people out, those are the types of people who get animals for the cool factor and generally end up getting the rest of us in crap.
well i do know places i can take him where wed be all alone and i do know people who have land too so why not just say take it to some private land not in public. insted of saying DONT GET A MONITOR. :p

[Valvaren]

Because your statement of "I want to see people's faces" comes of as "I want a monitor cause ill be cool and people will be like wow he has a monitor and they'll give me lots of attention" which isn't the reason any reptile or pet should be bought.

[Zosime]

Because your statement of "I want to see people's faces" comes of as "I want a monitor cause ill be cool and people will be like wow he has a monitor and they'll give me lots of attention" which isn't the reason any reptile or pet should be bought.
yeah who wouldnt i mean it isnt the only reason i want one i just want to if i can. I want a monitor because i just love monitors and i love lizards in general and i actually can house this monitor good and i think it is a good choice for me because i have tons of time to devote to it i go to online school so im home like all the time. I have colonies of crickets super worms and dubia roaches and im going to get started on hissing cockaroaches.

[infernalis]

you tell me not to get any yet you have your monitor eating outside?
Savannah Monitor Chows down - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_qnCia0Tx0)

That's right.

I Own 40 acres.

I chase people away at gun point, not look for reactions to my pets.

[poison123]

I chase people away at gun point,

now thats something you gotta record haha

[infernalis]

now thats something you gotta record haha

I find no pleasure nor humour in trespassing.

Sorry, usually I catch people mud bogging in my frog sanctuaries. So it's rather nasty when it happens.

[Zosime]

That's right.

I Own 40 acres.

I chase people away at gun point, not look for reactions to my pets.
Alright well i know people who have acouple acers that is private too so there is no need to just up and say i shouldnt have one just for that reason... it would be cool to take it out and show people who wouldnt want to show a monitor that they would raise from a baby to a adult lizard... it would be like showing off your little baby.. also i wouldnt take it out if i knew it wasnt tame around people its just common sense...

[DeadlyDesires]

now thats something you gotta record haha

you and me both daniel haha.. i almsot wanna go on his land just to see :D

edit - j/k wayne.. i'd like to stay alive.. i have a sav of my own to care for :P

[DeadlyDesires]

Alright well i know people who have acouple acers that is private too so there is no need to just up and say i shouldnt have one just for that reason... it would be cool to take it out and show people who wouldnt want to show a monitor that they would raise from a baby to a adult lizard... it would be like showing off your little baby.. also i wouldnt take it out if i knew it wasnt tame around people its just common sense...

the only reason i dont think you should get one is because you seem to change you mind about what you want every week.. no offense.. but monitors aren't exactally easy to care for and they require lots of attention.. You also need to understand that you have to lug a huge tank with you everywhere you move to.. and be able to support this monitor when you get out on your own (away from parents house). you wont be able to depend on them forever to take care of it and they are expensive to feed..

[infernalis]

edit - j/k wayne.. i'd like to stay alive.. i have a sav of my own to care for :P

Big difference. Welcome guests get a BBQ and camping.

My favourite vivarium is my back yard.

I enjoy the uncounted number of snakes, amphibians, turtles, fish and other wildlife so mush more than captive animals.

sitting out by the creek on a summer night listening to the owls "talk" and the frogs singing their mating songs over the crackle of a campfire, it's heavenly.

[monitorlizard]

Wayne could you make a thread showing your property? The ecological part primarily?

[Zosime]

the only reason i dont think you should get one is because you seem to change you mind about what you want every week.. no offense.. but monitors aren't exactally easy to care for and they require lots of attention.. You also need to understand that you have to lug a huge tank with you everywhere you move to.. and be able to support this monitor when you get out on your own (away from parents house). you wont be able to depend on them forever to take care of it and they are expensive to feed..
I dont change my mind every week i just go through my options most of the time because its mostly a space matter i can have a max of a 9 foot long enclsoure iv got food, and i know they require alot of attention im home schooled i can give attention to it,, and im not taking the tank with me im building it at the new house before i buy it id rather have the cage setup and ready to go before i buy one, And my parents dont care for it i work for the money and i have colonies on dubia roaches and super worms and crickets and im getting hissing cockaroaches for a next breeder roach. i have alot of food for a monitor and plus i wouldnt be getting anymore reptiles after a monitor and id only have a beardie and a monitor and tarantulas to care for and adult beardies eat mostly greens and tarantulas eat like 1-5 crickets a week and they can go months without eating so im not worried about feeding i think i have it under controll

[DeadlyDesires]

Big difference. Welcome guests get a BBQ and camping.

My favourite vivarium is my back yard.

I enjoy the uncounted number of snakes, amphibians, turtles, fish and other wildlife so mush more than captive animals.

sitting out by the creek on a summer night listening to the owls "talk" and the frogs singing their mating songs over the crackle of a campfire, it's heavenly.

if im ever in new york imma look u up :P i'd love to see it all take a whole bunch of pics :D

[infernalis]

Wayne could you make a thread showing your property? The ecological part primarily?

Wayne's walkabouts (http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/members-lounge/83921-my-little-slice-heaven-wayne-s-walkabouts.html)

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/general-amphibian-forum/93600-tadpole-rescue-2012-drought.html

Satellite view of my place (http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/members-lounge/90609-satellite-view-my-place.html)

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/general-turtle-tortoise-forum/93379-found-baby-snapper.html

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/general-discussion/84805-building-massive-herp-habitat.html

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/field-herping/86729-wayne-s-2011-field-pics-new-pics.html

[varanus_mad]

Timorensis is possibly one of the worst choices for what you have in mind they are incredibly shy dont like to be handled dont like to be viewed

They are difficult to get right in captivity.

Personally im off the opinion this is one species that should be left in the wild.

They dont take to captivity well.

[Lankyrob]

You keep mentioning wanting a "tame" monitor that you can interact with. If you read any of the monitor threads on here then what you really want is a monitor that is huffing and puffing and tail whipping you as these ones are more likely to be healthy and well looked after.

[jhinton6932]

lots of monitors dont take well to captivity...becuz the owner didnt take the time to ask questions and do some research from reputable sources. find forums where people have this species, its is thriving, and ask how much time and effort it took to get there. and Timors will not want a rope around their neck lol. get a dog if thats what you want to do, and if u want something to make ppl ooh and aah get a wolf hybrid, not a monitor, although both would be bad choices if thats your motive

[Zosime]

lots of monitors dont take well to captivity...becuz the owner didnt take the time to ask questions and do some research from reputable sources. find forums where people have this species, its is thriving, and ask how much time and effort it took to get there. and Timors will not want a rope around their neck lol. get a dog if thats what you want to do, and if u want something to make ppl ooh and aah get a wolf hybrid, not a monitor, although both would be bad choices if thats your motive
i have dogs their lame i like reptiles im going to get a monitor what ever all anyone has ever said is to not get one insted of actually helping me so screw it if it dies then it freakin dies what ever.....

[DeadlyDesires]

i have dogs their lame i like reptiles im going to get a monitor what ever all anyone has ever said is to not get one insted of actually helping me so screw it if it dies then it freakin dies what ever.....


and this is the reason you dont deserve a monitor lizard... you are too young and immature to understand the responsibility of owning and caring for one..

[War Machine]

Get an adult Niloctus, Salvator, or Albig. And try and put a leash on it :)

[Zosime]

and this is the reason you dont deserve a monitor lizard... you are too young and immature to understand the responsibility of owning and caring for one..
ok so you guys have been telling me since last year when i was on RF and iv done my research on monitors just not all of them.. just one and that was a savannah i know quite a bit about them and how to care for them and yet after a year of researching and not getting any other lizards im still not ready for one... then when will i be because getting constantly told no im not ready or what ever when i am iv been breeding my colonies of super worms and dubia roaches,, and when the monitor comes im going to get hissing cockaroaches and have acouple thousand crickets at all time..... I know the responsibility of caring for them i know what it takes iv watched all of your guyses threads for a year on RF and other fourms and i have nothing but time to devote to the monitor and im going to be building really good cage for it by the end of this month or i will try but it will get built before i buy a monitor and i saw you cage build for your savannah so i have the concept of building a cage... Why do you say im immature because you only know what i type through the computer... thats really small minded to think like that i troll alot on the computer but when i actually need help i will take the time to read it go over it write it down and remeber it i have care sheets for almost all the reptiles i asked about through out the year...

[DeadlyDesires]

Get an adult Niloctus, Salvator, or Albig. And try and put a leash on it :)

lol no kidding..

[Zosime]

Get an adult Niloctus, Salvator, or Albig. And try and put a leash on it :)
you want to buy it for me :) smartass

[Lankyrob]

i have dogs their lame i like reptiles im going to get a monitor what ever all anyone has ever said is to not get one insted of actually helping me so screw it if it dies then it freakin dies what ever.....

This attitude is exactly the reason why people are responding to you in a negative way. How old are you? From your responses and inability to take advice and negative feedback i would guess you are a teenager?

This is a living breathing creature you are talking about, and you couldnt care if it died? If that is the case then you dont deserve to have any animals :no:

[infernalis]

whoa.... regroup.

try this again polite this time.

I know exactly who this is, and if you guys (including me) give him the time, he will learn.

Just try and answer his questions in a civil manner.

And no more calling people smartass if you really want to learn, ask questions, take the good with the bad..

Now in all honesty, taking any large lizard out where the public can interact with it is not a good thing.

I made that mistake once with Chomper, and some idiot started up a dirt bike, the sound freaked him out and things got real ugly quick.

[Zosime]

This attitude is exactly the reason why people are responding to you in a negative way. How old are you? From your responses and inability to take advice and negative feedback i would guess you are a teenager?

This is a living breathing creature you are talking about, and you couldnt care if it died? If that is the case then you dont deserve to have any animals :no:
im 17.. yeah i understand that and well i would care if it died but its just pissing me off because iv waited a year to learn from the mistake i had with my first Savannah monitor it had had parasites and then it died at the vet..and i only had it for 3 days before i brought it to the vet.. i was very upset about that so i waited a year and did research read alot wrote down a care sheet and got plans for a cage set out so i can get a Sav monitor..But i did a little reading on timor monitors and someone on another fourm said the care was a little like sav's just like humidity and temp wise not cage, I didnt know they were skittish or what ever i thought they were like savs temp wise i didnt know... MY BAD... thats why i was asking questions here because i wasnt sure i didnt know i read some sheet for like 30 min on timor's and for all i know it could have been wrong so there is no need to say i shouldnt have any monitors its just pissing me off because iv been waiting for a year wanting to get another monitor and then when i ask for help people just say i shouldnt get one >.< thats not helping me im going to get one ither way i just want to go through my options and see if there is something smaller than a sav and is under 200$

[DiscoPat]

I agree that public is not a good idea at all, no matter how "tame" the monitor is you can't rely on everyone have thing common sense to not do something very stupid.

People are very unpredictable, and will do stuff that seems like it is common sense not to do. I have seen people put there finger by a monitors mouth.


This brings up kind of a separate question in my mind.
Do you think a monitor enjoys time outside the enclosure in a place such that is away from loud noises and other people? Such as Wayne's Property.

It seems like they would enjoy it because there is much more space to explore but it may just stress the lizard out.

[DiscoPat]

im 17.. yeah i understand that and well i would care if it died but its just pissing me off because iv waited a year to learn from the mistake i had with my first Savannah monitor it had had parasites and then it died at the vet..and i only had it for 3 days before i brought it to the vet.. i was very upset about that so i waited a year and did research read alot wrote down a care sheet and got plans for a cage set out so i can get a Sav monitor..But i did a little reading on timor monitors and someone on another fourm said the care was a little like sav's just like humidity and temp wise not cage, I didnt know they were skittish or what ever i thought they were like savs temp wise i didnt know... MY BAD... thats why i was asking questions here because i wasnt sure i didnt know i read some sheet for like 30 min on timor's and for all i know it could have been wrong so there is no need to say i shouldnt have any monitors its just pissing me off because iv been waiting for a year wanting to get another monitor and then when i ask for help people just say i shouldnt get one >.< thats not helping me im going to get one ither way i just want to go through my options and see if there is something smaller than a sav and is under 200$

Why not get another type of lizard that can live in something that is easy to move?

At 17 I assume you will be moving out of your parents house within the next few of years.

Moving with a monitor that requires a cage larger than 4x2x2 is really hard to move. even moving a 4x2x2 sucks. I am renting a place now and I am kicking myself for not building Steve's cage with wheels, I will eventually have to move even if it is 3 years from now. It is going to be near impossible to move that enclosure and I will probably have to pay rent at 2 places at once and build a new enclosure at the new place, With Wheels this time. Then move Steve to the new enclosure and tear apart the old enclosure.

If you absolutely have to have a monitor for some reason build the enclosure with reenforced wheels. Remember the enclosure will have around a ton of dirt in it.

[Zosime]

And no more calling people smartass if you really want to learn, ask questions, take the good with the bad..

Now in all honesty, taking any large lizard out where the public can interact with it is not a good thing.

I made that mistake once with Chomper, and some idiot started up a dirt bike, the sound freaked him out and things got real ugly quick.
alright. ok i understand that now i didnt know iv'e seen videos on YT with theirs out at the park so i thought i could do it to but now i know that it isnt smart so i wont do it. Yeah that dosnt sound like a good situation lol i wouldnt want to deal with a scared like 3-4 foot monitor outside

[ilovemypets1988]

hi zos, ive been reading all of your monitor threads lately and ive come up with this so far:

i understand that your are indecisive about what to get (understandable).
i read that the majority of your research has been based on a sav.
i read and understand that you want something that you can take for a walk (no pun intended).
i read that you have some friends that have private land upon which you would use to do the above on.
i read that you would like people to see the animal.

well im gunna make a few suggestions here, these are;

as your research has been based on a sav, then this would be your best option as that is where your knowledge is.
taking a monitor out in public could lead to serious problems that could possibly have a terrible knock on effect for the entire hobby (which in todays world is still frowned upon).
if you want people to see your monitor, why not take him/her somewhere private, do some videos and post them online, people will still see him/her but in a safe manner.
why dont you ask around to see if you can help someone with there monitor for a period of time, so you can see and get the experience before you buy 1 which will help you make your decision aswell.


1 last thing, i know that negative feed back and being told no is frustrating and you react as such, but please understand that they way you word things sometimes is what encourages such feed backs and comments, try to use your mind before you post a comment or say something as that can be the difference between people being polite and people being harsh :D

however overall i really do wish you take this all in as it is meant to be nice and polite and good luck with your decision.

[Zosime]

Why not get another type of lizard that can live in something that is easy to move.

At 17 I assume you will be moving out of your parents house within the next few of years.

Moving with a monitor that requires a cage larger than 4x2x2 is really hard to move. even moving a 4x2x2 sucks. I am renting a place now and I am kicking myself for not building Steve's cage with wheels, I will eventually have to move even if it is 3 years from now. It is going to be near impossible to move that enclosure and I will probably have to pay rent at 2 places at once and build a new enclosure at the new place, With Wheels this time. Then move Steve to the new enclosure and tear apart the old enclosure.

If you absolutely have to have a monitor for some reason build the enclosure with reenforced wheels. Remember the enclosure will have around a ton of dirt in it.
eh because i really want a monitor i dont really like the other lizards i have a beardie i like it but i want a big lizard, yeah i bet just moving my beardies 55 gallon is a pain in the butt lol i cant even imagine how hard it would be to move a huge tank. Yeah i was actually going to build it on wheels but im worried about it just like leaving marks in the hardwood floor or the wheel breaking. Would you pick up the wheels at like home depot and what type of wheel like what should the max weight be like 1000 pounds for the wheels?

[infernalis]

I would get wheels that are rated for 1000 pounds each wheel.

http://www.allproducts.com/manufacture100/junkai/product3.jpg

[DiscoPat]

eh because i really want a monitor i dont really like the other lizards i have a beardie i like it but i want a big lizard, yeah i bet just moving my beardies 55 gallon is a pain in the butt lol i cant even imagine how hard it would be to move a huge tank. Yeah i was actually going to build it on wheels but im worried about it just like leaving marks in the hardwood floor or the wheel breaking. Would you pick up the wheels at like home depot and what type of wheel like what should the max weight be like 1000 pounds for the wheels?

Wheels on hardwood would be a lot better than sliding plywood against it.

I saw a thread on here a while back with someone building a mobile enclosure. I will see if I can find it. It requires more reenforcing but it will be so worth it.

Also if you do move it you'll need the most expensive U-Haul that is offered with the large ramp.
If you put 8 wheels on it the weight will be more equally distributed also.

Edit: Found it

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/varanid/95935-diy-monitor-enclosure.html

The search function on this forum is great!

Way better than most forums I have been on.

[varanus1]

Please don't get ANY monitors......

I was going to say same thing lol. From what you mentioned in your post a monitor is not the choice If you need something to take out and play with.Unless your wanting to learn how to properly care for any monitors i would suggest not to get one.

[jarich]

I know you were thinking of a bigger monitor, but based on a lot of your other criteria I think maybe an ackie would be your best bet for a first monitor. They are very active, very cool and somewhat more forgiving of things than a sav or timor would be. You can easily find captive bred babies that are used to humans and would be less likely to freak out when your friends are over and you take it out to hold them. Plus the enclosure doesnt have to be room sized, so when you move out its much easier to deal with and find space for in an apartment. They are smaller, but really that shouldnt deter you. They arent like bearded dragons that spend most of their days like bumps on a log. They are REALLY active. They have all the character and cool traits of a big monitor, maybe more, just in a smaller package. I really think they might be your best bet.

[Zosime]

I know you were thinking of a bigger monitor, but based on a lot of your other criteria I think maybe an ackie would be your best bet for a first monitor. They are very active, very cool and somewhat more forgiving of things than a sav or timor would be. You can easily find captive bred babies that are used to humans and would be less likely to freak out when your friends are over and you take it out to hold them. Plus the enclosure doesnt have to be room sized, so when you move out its much easier to deal with and find space for in an apartment. They are smaller, but really that shouldnt deter you. They arent like bearded dragons that spend most of their days like bumps on a log. They are REALLY active. They have all the character and cool traits of a big monitor, maybe more, just in a smaller package. I really think they might be your best bet.
Yeah id be willing to get an ackie but iv only seen them for like 350+ and i dont know where really to find anyone who sells ackies iv seen them on back water reptile should i try there

[jarich]

No, Backwater would definitely not be my recommendation, ever.

You can find them for cheaper but it may take a bit of time and searching. Do you have an expo that is coming in your area anytime soon? You can find them there cheaper. Kingsnake or Faunaclassified are both places to watch. They sell pretty quickly, especially the captive bred ones, but you can find yellows for around $250 or so. You get what you pay for though, so if you can save up, then the ones for $350-400 are really great.

[Jeepers]

Yeah id be willing to get an ackie but iv only seen them for like 350+ and i dont know where really to find anyone who sells ackies iv seen them on back water reptile should i try there

NO. NEVER... I recently ordered a Cuvier's Dwarf Caiman from there and it arrived dead.. They didn't even have any indications on the package that a live animal was inside... If I report that it can actually terminate their contract with FedEx.

I've heard many MANY reports of customers receiving dead or dying animals from Backwater, either dying from the trip or dying from illness. I do NOT recommend them based on what I went through with them.

[infernalis]

Several members here breed them, I would support a fellow forum member first.

[DiscoPat]

Several members here breed them, I would support a fellow forum member first.

I agree with this.

I plan on buying Ackies in a few years (once I own a house.) and this is would be the first place I'd look.

[poison123]

Out of curiosity what is the minimum size cage for timors?

[stephanbakir]

While I agree that some locations aren't exactly ideal for taking pets to, its up to the individual animals personality, and the keepers level of responsibility.
I took our big sav and one of my retics to G-lit-ch last year, almost 400 people, live bands, flamethrowers, firedancers, fireworks, burlesque, and more for 4 days. I only took the animals out when it was appropriate, and it was a fantastic learning experience for everyone who was there. More then half the people were scared/tense when they saw them but by the end of it, everyone had a blast.
No more rewarding feeling then seeing kids smile when they come over a fear. (excuse my hairy chest)

[stephanbakir]

Be careful when and where you take your animals, condition them for it, test out the waters with some mock gatherings, try 2-3 people and work your way up from there. add music, add surprising sounds etc, small pets...
I lost the photo but I had one of the sav sleeping in the grass with 3 small dogs piled on him asleep...

[Aaron_S]

I expected more from you. :no:

[stephanbakir]

I expected more from you. :no:
Can you elaborate? They were never out during any of the activities that I thought would scare them in the least, they were never in the crowds, always off to the side, both of those animals are 100% comfortable around new people as long as those people don't act like morons. Whenever the sav is uncomfortable he lets me know and it stops there, we go off to the side and he runs around in the water chasing crayfish and bugs.

[Terranaut]

I totally disagree with taking our reptiles out in public places but if there are places this activity is ok , then functions like the above or burning man or any alternative lifestyle showcase functions are it.
If you took a space alien to a sunday mass the people would run out of the building screeming but take him to a comicon and he would be a celebrity. The crowds at events like this respect the unusual and would embrace interactions with reptiles in most cases. I also doubt a day or 2away from their enclosures would pose any health threat. I also remember the thread these pics are from and it was a hot humid weekend so even better .
Call me crazy but I see a world of difference between the above and seeing peoples faces in a local park. So to me no harm ,no foul.

[stephanbakir]

I took their enclosures with me, they were in them 50% of the time at least, Chomper spent most of the days cruising around at his digression, mostly basking > chasing critters > basking > swimming > basking etc... He did what he wanted at his own pace, with me keeping a close eye on him.
I agree with Terranaut, there is a time and place for everything.

[ilovemypets1988]

i agree with stephanbakir on this 1 as quite frankly, taking his reptiles to that event is no different than taking them to am expo, infact id go as far to say that it would stress the reptiles more at an expo because of all the different species, sex`s, etc, not to mention the fact that it is potentially alot more harming as anything could be contracted.
atleast at the show where stephan took his reptiles was a place to take them and people obviously enjoyed.

[Aaron_S]

i agree with stephanbakir on this 1 as quite frankly, taking his reptiles to that event is no different than taking them to am expo, infact id go as far to say that it would stress the reptiles more at an expo because of all the different species, sex`s, etc, not to mention the fact that it is potentially alot more harming as anything could be contracted.
atleast at the show where stephan took his reptiles was a place to take them and people obviously enjoyed.

Wait? What?

You're trying to say that my snakes in a simple display case care that there's a corn snake at the other end of the hall and that it may be of the opposite sex? You've never been to an expo, have you?

On top of that, no one goes to a reptile expo not expecting them to be there so it's a completely different situation.

So Stephan, you brought your savannah's 8x4x4 with all that good soil/sand for making burrows on a trip? Interesting.

[stephanbakir]

It was a 7X3X2 but yeh, I did. - the proper soil depth, he only had about 6 inches of soil on that trip, simply because it wasn't reasonable to transport that much weight.

Also, I advertised that I was bringing them in advance, every1 knew what to expect, I also wasn't in their face about it, if they wanted to see them they could... otherwise they could avoid em.

[murrindindi]

I took their enclosures with me, they were in them 50% of the time at least, Chomper spent most of the days cruising around at his digression, mostly basking > chasing critters > basking > swimming > basking etc... He did what he wanted at his own pace, with me keeping a close eye on him.
I agree with Terranaut, there is a time and place for everything.


Hi, I`d just like to ask if it was late in the day when the some of the photos were taken, as it seems to be quite dark?

[stephanbakir]

If you have facebook, the photos are here. https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.358162000935021.81727.100002236710396&type=3
It's a 96 hour party, it doesn't stop. Photos were taken at all hours of the day. (might be some mild nudity in a few of the photos, but I'm pretty sure I removed the "inappropriate" ones

[murrindindi]

If you have facebook, the photos are here.
It's a 96 hour party, it doesn't stop. Photos were taken at all hours of the day. (might be some mild nudity in a few of the photos, but I'm pretty sure I removed the "inappropriate" ones


Thanks for the link, I was concerned that the temps might be quite cool late in the day, so how long was the animal outside it`s enclosure, and how did it thermoregulate?

[stephanbakir]

It had sun + shade, it was the middle of summer here and in the middle of a heat wave so heat wasn't a problem, even at night.
Just to be sure my buddy and I dug a 2 foot by 1 foot trench that was about 18 inches deep and filled it with coals and covered it back up with soil, we use the same technique when we go winter camping. Gives you a nice warm bed to sleep on :) He used it once or twice but for the most part it was too hot out anyway to be of much use.
They were outside the enclosure for 2-3 2-3 hour sessions a day, Chomper was out longer because he is much more used to people and I have no issues letting him roam around on his own and chase critters in the grass/weeds. The shoreside was a much better space for him to spend time at then his enclosure.

[Terranaut]

Just an fyi for some.
In the wild, snakes leave their enclosures and encounter less than perfect living conditions for short periods of time :)

[infernalis]

I'm pretty sure I removed the "inappropriate" ones

That sucks... bring on the skin!

[Gregg M]

You cant smell a troll??? Stop feeding into this, please....

[Aaron_S]

Just an fyi for some.
In the wild, snakes leave their enclosures and encounter less than perfect living conditions for short periods of time :)

Just free roam your animals then Dan. Leave all their doors open so they can do as they please. They all meet up at some point or another in the wild so who cares anymore?

[Terranaut]

Just free roam your animals then Dan. Leave all their doors open so they can do as they please. They all meet up at some point or another in the wild so who cares anymore?

Well I don't think I would go that far but a little wilderness neverhurts if your paying attention and not being dumb about it . Also when I take my snakes outside I din't allow them to interact.

[Jeepers]

I think this is a situation of two different people that have polar opposite opinions on something and it's pointless to continue on considering this.

I say this because, through my ownership of parrots, I've learned there's the owners that feel it's healthy for the bird to go outside and get some sun(which, in all honesty, it is, they love sunlight) using proper safety precautions, and there are owners that seem to abhor the thought of EVER letting their birds outside, harness or not. These people I do not understand, but I've realized you're best off just leaving them alone and nodding your head because there's just no possible way you're ever going to prove your point with them.

Simple as that. It's just a personal preference, belief, opinion, what have you. I just think it's best to leave it at that.

I understand both viewpoints in the situation of reptiles. Yes, most are shy, flighty, nervous, what have you. Though, if your reptile has a relaxed demeanor, has been accustomed to loud noises, flashes, etc., or anything that would allow them to be suitable to go into public(obviously where people won't flip out and stress the animal, somewhere where people will be ok with it), and you make sure conditions are suitable, take necessary precautions, etc., then I honestly don't see the harm. Once again, though. Personal preference.

[Terranaut]

Ahhh but Aaron and I can discuss stuff and still be friends where others on here get all pissy. So we are good :)

[Jeepers]

Ahhh but Aaron and I can discuss stuff and still be friends where others on here get all pissy. So we are good :)

Lol~ Okay then, so long as it's in good humor :D

[murrindindi]

Simple as that. It's just a personal preference, belief, opinion, what have you. I just think it's best to leave it at that.

I understand both viewpoints in the situation of reptiles. Yes, most are shy, flighty, nervous, what have you. Though, if your reptile has a relaxed demeanor, has been accustomed to loud noises, flashes, etc., or anything that would allow them to be suitable to go into public(obviously where people won't flip out and stress the animal, somewhere where people will be ok with it), and you make sure conditions are suitable, take necessary precautions, etc., then I honestly don't see the harm. Once again, though. Personal preference.


Hi, I think you`re forgetting at least one extremely important point; the climate in Canada couldn`t be considered tropical, which is where the Savannah monitor in particular originates from, the poster states the animal was outside it `s enclosure possibly over 9 hours a day, including into the evening when the temps would surely have dropped (even in summer), so no way to thermoregulate effectively at the later time. I don`t consider that to be good husbandry (not in the animal`s best interest).

[poison123]

Hi, I think you`re forgetting at least one extremely important point; the climate in Canada couldn`t be considered tropical, which is where the Savannah monitor in particular originates from, the poster states the animal was outside it `s enclosure possibly over 9 hours a day, including into the evening when the temps would surely have dropped (even in summer), so no way to thermoregulate effectively at the later time. I don`t consider that to be good husbandry (not in the animal`s best interest).

Savannah's are from the tropics? I was always under the impression that they were from grassland areas.

[infernalis]

Savannah's are from the tropics? I was always under the impression that they were from grassland areas.

Tropical grasslands. The African Savannah is VERY tropical. :D

Tropics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropics)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4a/World_map_torrid.svg/800px-World_map_torrid.svg.png

[Terranaut]

Hi, I think you`re forgetting at least one extremely important point; the climate in Canada couldn`t be considered tropical, which is where the Savannah monitor in particular originates from, the poster states the animal was outside it `s enclosure possibly over 9 hours a day, including into the evening when the temps would surely have dropped (even in summer), so no way to thermoregulate effectively at the later time. I don`t consider that to be good husbandry (not in the animal`s best interest).


In the summer it can be 85+ overnight and 100+ during the day. I don't think a few hours of this would kill a sav or even hurt it at all.IMHO.
Canada is not always cold. Also he said he brought it's enclosure so poor husbandry is a stretch.

[jarich]

'Tropical' is a reference to a certain latitude, basically the area between the Tropic of Cancer and the Tropic of Capricorn. As it sits at the center of the globe the temperatures remain pretty constant throughout the year.'Grassland' is an ecological niche that describes a type of habitat and can be found almost anywhere on earth, and are variable in temperature as a result of their location.

[poison123]

Ah ok then makes sense lol.

[stephanbakir]

Hi, I think you`re forgetting at least one extremely important point; the climate in Canada couldn`t be considered tropical, which is where the Savannah monitor in particular originates from, the poster states the animal was outside it `s enclosure possibly over 9 hours a day, including into the evening when the temps would surely have dropped (even in summer), so no way to thermoregulate effectively at the later time. I don`t consider that to be good husbandry (not in the animal`s best interest).
We have hot summers here too :P The party was at a hot time in the summer, even at night it was at the lowest point 18C outside (by that point he had been in his cage for a while), and if I can find the photos Chomper was roaming around and chilling by the fire every time he needed to warm up, but for the most part he didn't bother. He was always warm, alert and curious, climbing people, chasing bugs, digging, and just relaxing. (that fire put out a ton of heat when you are anywhere close to it)
If you want to see for yourself, why not come to glitch next year? People come from all over, we had a pile of people from the states, a few from the uk and a few from europe. It's open to anyone with an open mind who isn't going to start anything with others. (3-4 days of partying, 3-400 people, and not 1 fight... that says something)

[Jeepers]

Hi, I think you`re forgetting at least one extremely important point; the climate in Canada couldn`t be considered tropical, which is where the Savannah monitor in particular originates from, the poster states the animal was outside it `s enclosure possibly over 9 hours a day, including into the evening when the temps would surely have dropped (even in summer), so no way to thermoregulate effectively at the later time. I don`t consider that to be good husbandry (not in the animal`s best interest).

I know nothing about Canada and its temperatures, so I'm not judging based on location when I know nothing about it. I know even areas you think would be butt-freezing cold can get surprisingly hot in the summer months, so I'm not going to judge temporary husbandry and the likes based on location. As I said, if weather is PERMITTING, as in SUITABLE for the reptile, then I see no harm if you're RESPONSIBLE about taking part in this activity. If done right, it can be very enjoying for your reptile and you.

[murrindindi]

If done right, it can be very enjoying for your reptile and you.


I know of no Varanid species that "enjoys" being surrounded by hundreds of strangers when it`s core temps are at "preferred" activity levels, anything could spook them in an instant, and with serious problems occurring.
I have no problem allowing my monitors "outside" time when conditions suit as you say, but to deliberately put them into potentially very stressful situations which this could have been, IS poor husbandry in my opinion.
I don`t think it`s something that should be encouraged, I regularly hear beginners asking if it`s o.k to take their monitor for walks in the park/neighbourhood (on a leash).

[Terranaut]

The walk on the leash in the park is a no no to me. Not because the park has poor conditions but because of public reaction.
I would think a keeper would know if his animal was going to be spioked by the crowd or sounds. I could easily pass my male jcp around with no issues but my female boa would lose her mind.
Again I am not saying this is what people should do with their reptiles but rather it can be done without harm to the animal at all if done properly with a willing animal.

[infernalis]

All I can say is IF either of my monitors were introduced into this situation, they would run away like no tomorrow, never to be seen again.

Wound up like an 8 day watch, just the way I like it.

[Terranaut]

Yes but you know that and would never do this.
Most of my animals would freak out too but I have others that would not.
Mick here is always up for a party and never has issues with noise or crowds. He just wants to climb on everyone.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j9/terranaut0/IMG_1532_zps41e9303f.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j9/terranaut0/IMG_1428_zpsa2301d4a.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j9/terranaut0/IMG_1426_zps1bb639cd.jpg

[Jeepers]

I know of no Varanid species that "enjoys" being surrounded by hundreds of strangers when it`s core temps are at "preferred" activity levels, anything could spook them in an instant, and with serious problems occurring.
I have no problem allowing my monitors "outside" time when conditions suit as you say, but to deliberately put them into potentially very stressful situations which this could have been, IS poor husbandry in my opinion.
I don`t think it`s something that should be encouraged, I regularly hear beginners asking if it`s o.k to take their monitor for walks in the park/neighbourhood (on a leash).

Once again, I said if your -specific- reptile is -comfortable- with other people and not shy, reclusive, nervous, what have you. It's up to the owner to determine this. All of mine are too flighty to be in any sort of crowd environment, I know this, so I wouldn't dare think of taking mine out until they're better acclimated, if they ever do get acclimated to it. Some just don't and that's a simple fact, but for people that know their reptile and know that they're more laid back than others may be, I don't believe it's an issue so long as they're responsible about it in ALL aspects. What crowd they'll be around, temperatures, etc.

I'm no beginner by any means, I've been dealing with reptiles for 5 - 6 years, since I was young. I'm actually a far older member here than you are, I just did not choose to revive my old account, nor do I wish to state who I was.

Once again, I believe this is a topic of one person prefers this, one person prefers that, it's pointless to even continue this because it's just one of those topics that has no conclusion. It's an issue of preference, for the most part, and many other factors.

[varanus_mad]

Relatively simple to determine if a large varanid is stressed by an experience check the heart rate if its going ten to the dozen while in a situation like that... its stressed.

[Aanayab1]

Zosime: I just want to touch on the food topic. I realize you breed a variety of insects and that is awesome. I just want to bring up how much my ackies actually eat so that you can prepare appropriately in the case you do purchase a monitor.

per week: total of 4 Ackies approximately 8-9 months of age
1000 large crickets
500ish med-lrg dubia

per lizard that is 250 crickets and 125 roaches

through out the time I have had them the numbers have not changed, the only variable is the size of the food item.

I also include 1 sm fuzzie each month but not all of them take it every time it is offered.

I simply can not fathom the numbers of food intake on a non-dwarf species. I want to add here that I am not attempting to deter you in any way, my goal in posting is to help you prepare. I thought one colony of each food item would work but to keep a constant daily supply and deal with the constant fluctuations in production I now have 2 cricket t-cans and 4 dubia tubs. The food intake numbers I mentioned above is the low average of their diet. At times they will decimate all of my crickets and dubia to the point I have to order more from suppliers. I'm not sure what causes the eating spikes and can not even come up with a viable pattern, it is truly, at this point sporadic.

If you decide on an ackie please feel free to send me a PM and I will do my best to lead you in the right direction in order to find the answer to your question(s).

Antonio.