View Full Version : baby bosc not growing need help
pll Hi there im new to this form as it was recommended to me earlier. I have had a baby bosc for 2-3 months now, he was 11" when I got him and is still exactly the same size. He is only eating around 6-8 crickets a day and occasionally a few wax worms.
His tank size is 4x2x2 ( I know its too small but shall be getting a bigger one after Christmas) hot side air temp is usually between 108 and 120f, cooler, end is around 90-99f, basking last I checked was sitti bf at 147f the other day although I have seem to misplaced the temp gun and humidity is 60% day and upto 75 at night. The substrate for now is I know not deep enough but ranges from a couple of inches at the basking to around 8 inches at the cooler end.
infernalis
11-27-12, 08:56 AM
welcome to the forum.
Is there a lot of activity going on in the same room that could be spooking your lizard?
When little, they are exceptionally skittish about larger creatures in close proximity.
Thanks.
Not really. He is in my bedroom right enough but im only ever in it when im sleeping and his lights are out and getting up in the morning, unless ofcourse when im feeding him etc. He does tend to hide when he see's me enter. He was in a spare room when I first got him until last week, where noone would enter atall unless feeding etc and he has always been the same.
War Machine
11-27-12, 09:31 AM
Are you trying to handle him at all? He should be eating way more as well, try giving him a pinky, or roaches.
I know he should be eating way more, he wont even eat them when I first put them in. I have to leave them in till I come back from work and they are normally all gone. Ive not tried them yet as I shall need to order roaches. Being only 11" you think he should be able to handle anpinky? Ive only handled him a few times, once being when I first got him (bad info on the net said to tame him he should be handled straight away). Ps sorry for any bad spelling as im on my phone lol
Forgot to say I bought 3rd hoppers last night to try and hes not touched any
infernalis
11-27-12, 11:04 AM
My Boscs were taking pinkies at 6 inches.
If they can fit it in their mouth, they can swallow it.
They also go mental for lobworms. Have you tried offering lobworms?
Squirtle
11-27-12, 11:09 AM
I remember when I had my sav. He went NUTS for pinkies and mice; he was little too, only about 8 inches when I started feeding him rodents. Is it possible to see pictures of your stuff (monitor, cage, temps etc)?
BeardedDee
11-27-12, 12:34 PM
Can I point out that the coolest temp is 90F, that's higher than the norm.
What size/type of bulb are you using?
Not yet tried lob worms as im really limited to what I can buy from shops here but ill look into that and get some stuff ordered. How many mice per day would you say then and is it limited to pinkies at the moment? Cool ill try get some pics uploaded
infernalis
11-27-12, 12:38 PM
Considering we want to get some growth, I wouldn't hesitate to give it 2-3 hopper size mice a day, if he will take them that is.
Couldnt upload on this cause of my phone but heres a link, hopefully it should work http://s1320.photobucket.com/albums/u530/
Have you been supplementing those crickets? Im guessing that you must have some sort of calcium powder, but just want to be sure.
I gutload them with veggies and Nutrobal daily
Did the link work?
infernalis
11-27-12, 01:38 PM
no, it came up with We're sorry, we cannot find the page you requested
Bah, really need to get myself a pc lol. Today he has only ate a couple of hoppers but tomorrow I shall try some pinkies. Are there any other sort of frozen foods I might be able to try for just now? Ive read some crustations are ok? Over the past couple of days just from being in my room I have noticed he isnt as scared. Right now he has popped his head out from a log to have a look about even though im sitting infront of him, which im taking as a good sign.
DSC_0369.jpg photo by fuzzhc | Photobucket (http://s1320.photobucket.com/albums/u530/fuzzhc/?action=view¤t=DSC_0369.jpg)
War Machine
11-27-12, 03:50 PM
cram more dirt in there man! Then you'll see some really cool stuff, Make a substrate damn out of logs or something in front of the door so you can make it higher then the door level.
Cool I will do then and just buy more hides. What kinda dirt is ok to use? Currently I have a mixture of repti sand and that compact dirt from the pet shop that expands when wet but thats quite expensive to buy alot of
Squirtle
11-27-12, 06:12 PM
Cool I will do then and just buy more hides. What kinda dirt is ok to use? Currently I have a mixture of repti sand and that compact dirt from the pet shop that expands when wet but thats quite expensive to buy alot of
Wayne likes to use the dirt straight from his yard. He also likes to fill the dirt with insects for his Savannah Monitors to eat. I'm not too sure on this (someone please correct me if I'm wrong), but I think sav's can eat ground beef once in a while.
War Machine
11-27-12, 06:30 PM
Wayne likes to use the dirt straight from his yard. He also likes to fill the dirt with insects for his Savannah Monitors to eat. I'm not too sure on this (someone please correct me if I'm wrong), but I think sav's can eat ground beef once in a while.
No, wayne does not "add" insects to the dirt, and Its not for the monitors to eat. other then earth worms.
He has established a Cultured substrate, it is bio active, and self sustaining. It develops naturally with time and proper environment.
And no, savs cannot eat ground beef ever. Nor anything with preservatives. Live, whole prey only.
OP: Like stated, you can dig up your own dirt for substrate, and mix it with "childrens washed play sand" found at home depot.
Or go to a landscaping supplier, and buy dirt there. Or there are a few suitable top soils found at home depot etc.
Thanks man, ill buy some top soil at the weekend then. Was planning on some pinkies tonught but got held up at work and missed the shop, gah!
Thanks man, ill buy some top soil at the weekend then. Was planning on some pinkies tonught but got held up at work and missed the shop, gah!
Just be careful with which one you buy as some topsoils have got quite a bit added to them
Yeah I will. Back to the op : if he doesnt go for the pinkies/worms etc think a trip down to the vet is in order?
infernalis
11-28-12, 03:20 PM
Yeah I will. Back to the op : if he doesnt go for the pinkies/worms etc think a trip down to the vet is in order?
For the record "OP" stands for original poster (you):)
From my own experience, and quite a few other's as well, most vets are not trained very well on varanids (Monitor lizards)
My previous Bosc was grossly misdiagnosed by the first vet, and the second vet tried to tell me my basking spot was too hot, when in reality it needed to be hotter.
So that we can better assess what exactly is going on, can you by any chance get a full on photo of your viv so we can have a look??
varanus_mad
11-28-12, 03:56 PM
From that picture 1. your substrates to shallow. 2. its not busy enough as in not enough spots for your monitor to hide in on display to much = stress
stress can be enough to hold back growth.
infernalis
11-28-12, 04:16 PM
My bad.... Let me display the photo.
http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/u530/fuzzhc/DSC_0369.jpg
infernalis
11-28-12, 04:19 PM
I concur with Varanus Mad. The viv looks nice to us, but there is no real hiding opportunities, and no burrowing opportunity in there.
I can't stress enough, Boscs live a great deal of their lives underground, They are born underground, and will die without it.
Sadly, my first Bosc never got to go underground until I buried him to lay him to rest.
http://www.varanid.us/illustrations/LiamBurrow.jpg
http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/tail.jpg
http://www.varanid.us/illustrations/digg.jpg
I had actually never thought about making somw sort of barricade to add more dirt. Ill get some either tomorrow if I have enough time and if not then definetly the weekend. I already have some bags of play sand here that I can mix in.
Much appreciated!
Oh and some more hides!
infernalis
11-28-12, 04:41 PM
Much appreciated!
Cheers. Never a problem.
On a side note, My wee babies went underground the day they arrived here.
EmbraceCalamity
11-28-12, 04:52 PM
Thanks man, ill buy some top soil at the weekend then. Was planning on some pinkies tonught but got held up at work and missed the shop, gah!Make sure it's organic. More expensive, but when fertilizers are used to make bombs, organic is way better. XD
Also, I know I'm of much less help than most people here, but one minor suggestion is using digital hygrometer (looks like you're using analog). That way you can really know what's going on in there. If there's a digital one in there I didn't see, then that's my bad. :D
~Maggot
I know really need to invest in one of them, not been able to find any in any of the electronic or diy shops nearby!
EmbraceCalamity
11-29-12, 10:26 AM
I know really need to invest in one of them, not been able to find any in any of the electronic or diy shops nearby!I've had to order all of mine. Even our local PetCo (and by "local" I mean an hour away) didn't have one.
~Maggot
infernalis
11-29-12, 10:28 AM
I know really need to invest in one of them, not been able to find any in any of the electronic or diy shops nearby!
Any of the digital "weather monitors" sold at any big retailer will work ace for the job mate.
As a bonus, they all come with a probe (outside temperature) and measure temps at the meter (inside temperatures) and measure humidity.
http://www.chompersite.com/LF/again.jpg
dinosaurdammit
11-29-12, 10:31 AM
Any of the digital "weather monitors" sold at any big retailer will work ace for the job mate.
As a bonus, they all come with a probe (outside temperature) and measure temps at the meter (inside temperatures) and measure humidity.
http://www.chompersite.com/LF/again.jpg
home depot is having a sale on these, i love mine.
Ah amazing cheers! Ill try B&Q again but last time they never had anything like that, if not ill order online. :-D
Try Maplins, I got my temp gun from them and I am sure they did digital hydrometers as well
Got my temp gun from there also but they never had any hygrometers. Could also give tha another try aswell I suppose
BeardedDee
11-29-12, 04:27 PM
I replaced mine with one from Maplins 3 weeks ago, in the Gadget section.
Cool man hopefully be able to make it down there today
Thanks for the advice on the pinkies he loves them! He ate 2 yesterday straight away amd 3 today within a few minutes. Even came close to having him take it out my hand :D I bought some top soil aswell. Heres a pic if you could tell me if that shall be enough for now?
DSC_0397_zps8215c36c.jpg photo by fuzzhc | Photobucket (http://s1320.photobucket.com/albums/u530/fuzzhc/?action=view¤t=DSC_0397_zps8215c36c.jpg)
http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/u530/fuzzhc/DSC_0397_zps8215c36c.jpg
BeardedDee
12-01-12, 03:19 PM
Looks better for now. Did you add play sand too? helps hold a burrow.
It will up your cool end temp having less air to heat with the added soil. Keep an eye on it.
infernalis
12-01-12, 04:10 PM
What I would do is pack dirt right up till it touches that tallest shelf, Slope it up like a hillside.
should not take that much more dirt to accomplish.
Aye man had a bag of play sand left over from when I tried it with my beardies ages ago. It has helped my cool temp I think. Last I checked it was around 85f as opposed to 90f but im not in just not so will need to check again. Think upto the top shelf would be a bit too high as it would only leave a few inches. How many pinkies max do you think he could eat a day? I take it fluffss would cause impaction? Picked up a few just incase when the first pet shop only had them left but not tried them uet
infernalis
12-01-12, 10:19 PM
Impaction is a myth too.
If your bosc can fit a fluff into it's mouth, then no ill effects will come from swallowing it.
Heck, my Boscs eat a bunch of dirt with everything they eat, and have never been impacted from that.
EmbraceCalamity
12-01-12, 10:30 PM
Impaction is a myth too.*With proper husbandry and no calcium sand. I believe anything that isn't kept warm enough will have trouble digesting things. And god knows calcium sand is death in a bag. At least that's what I've gathered from all other reptiles. Is it different with these guys?
~Maggot
infernalis
12-01-12, 10:33 PM
*With proper husbandry and no calcium sand. I believe anything that isn't kept warm enough will have trouble digesting things. And god knows calcium sand is death in a bag. At least that's what I've gathered from all other reptiles. Is it different with these guys?
~Maggot
Good catch.:Wow:
I meant to say, with proper support, impaction is a myth.
Heard this said once, although extreme, it has a point....
"You can feed them nails, if you keep them right."
EmbraceCalamity
12-01-12, 10:51 PM
Good catch.:Wow:
I meant to say, with proper support, impaction is a myth.
Heard this said once, although extreme, it has a point....
"You can feed them nails, if you keep them right."Not that it matters. I just figured I'd ask.
~Maggot
It might be a daft question here but since I put all the dirt in he hasnt really left his burrow since, is this normal? He has been leaving daily for food and on Sunday my brother watched him clean his self UN his bath for a while but that has been it. He has only defacated once that I know of which I cleaned, do they ever do it in their burrows? He has been eating 3-4 mice daily since Friday, some locusts and has ate 2 fluffs. Earlier I got the idea from another thread in here to string up a mouse from a clothes peg dangling which I am pleased to say he has scoffed :D just wish I coulda seen it though!
infernalis
12-04-12, 11:40 AM
I have never heard of them defecating in their burrow.
Also it is very normal for them to spend lots of time down there, they are underground dwellers.
I commonly have to bribe mine with treats to get them out of their holes.
Ok cool, im just panicking then lol.
Even at that I cant bribe him out I just need to leave the food there and leave the room to come back and find it gone. Hopefully one day ill be able to be in the same room whilst hes out haha
If I set up my camera and can get a video of him going for the dangling mouse ill post it up :D
Ok so im not sure if im just being paranoid here. But I went on a short break for a few days last week and came back Monday. I had left my dad to look after my bosc and had told him how to take care of it. I hadnt seen the lizard until just now as he isnt coming out of the burrow much. I noticed when he was walking his hind legs shaking slightly as he was walking (I think) cause I only got to see him for a split second before he darted off. Could this be a sign of mdb or I read fatty liver disease? His diet recently has consisted of 2pinkies a day and a fuzzy twice a week and locusts. The locusts have been gut fed every day when I was here but my dad just informed me he tried to coat then in calcium whilst I was away, which they obviously rubbed off.
infernalis
12-20-12, 06:18 AM
Ok so im not sure if im just being paranoid here. But I went on a short break for a few days last week and came back Monday. I had left my dad to look after my bosc and had told him how to take care of it. I hadnt seen the lizard until just now as he isnt coming out of the burrow much. I noticed when he was walking his hind legs shaking slightly as he was walking (I think) cause I only got to see him for a split second before he darted off. Could this be a sign of mdb or I read fatty liver disease? His diet recently has consisted of 2pinkies a day and a fuzzy twice a week and locusts. The locusts have been gut fed every day when I was here but my dad just informed me he tried to coat then in calcium whilst I was away, which they obviously rubbed off.
MBD takes time to manifest, so it does not appear this quickly.
Fatty liver?? That seems unlikely too.
No need to dust the locusts, your Bosc gets calcium from the bones of the mice and the shell (exoskeleton) of the locusts.
Can you get a close up photo of the rear legs and tail area??
So does this mean there is no need at all for calcium power then?
I was thinking maybe fatty liver if he wasnt digesting properly or something cause although my baskinf area is at 140 I havent seen him basking there but saying that ive rarely seem him lol.
I can try but as I said hes always down there burrow and wont even come out if im there atall even for food. And I dont expect destroying the burrow to get him out will be very good for hin lol.
Any suggestions? :(
infernalis
12-20-12, 06:48 AM
Leave the burrows alone, that's like smashing his house.
It's normal for them to be shy, especially while young.
I have seen all the best behaviour from mine by spying on them with a remote camera.
(not suggesting that you need to, I do it for educational reasons)
Even now, I have to lure them out with snacks.
I see it every day, they will be out and active, as soon as I enter the room, they dart down the holes and vanish.
Yeah just wondering how ill be able to take a picture then or even take him to a vet lol! :hmm:
I doubt it could be a case of impaction because hes going to the toilet on a regular basis.
Come to think of it, when I first got him he didnt eat properly for the first few weeks so if he developed mbd then, do you think the amount of mice he has been eating would have cured it? So to speak
infernalis
12-20-12, 07:48 AM
Yeah just wondering how ill be able to take a picture then or even take him to a vet lol! :hmm:
I doubt it could be a case of impaction because hes going to the toilet on a regular basis.
Come to think of it, when I first got him he didnt eat properly for the first few weeks so if he developed mbd then, do you think the amount of mice he has been eating would have cured it? So to speak
Read this, and see if it makes any sense to you...
Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD) in Reptiles (http://exoticpets.about.com/cs/reptilesgeneral/a/metabolicbd.htm)
From what I just read, it comes back round to husbandry and keeping them warm enough to absorb what they need from meals.
With that diet I would recommend still dusting the locusts. As you are using pinkies, the calcium to phosphorous ratio is much lower than with a grown mouse. Pinkies are more cartilage at that stage of development, so their calcium is lower, but they still have basically the same phosphorous levels. You need not only to have the high calcium in their diet, but to have it be at around a 2:1 ratio with the phosphorous. I would say switch to the fuzzies (more bone development) and be done with the pinkies, and continue to dust your locusts until you are able to offer a diet with a higher calcium:phosphorous ratio. Offering crayfish or whole bodied shrimp will alleviate the problem entirely too.
Aanayab1
12-27-12, 11:20 AM
Do you or have you considered leaving food in the enclosure at all times? I tried at one point to feed 3 times a day with some success but noticed a drop in growth. I would feed until they took no more from me or out of a dish. I did this 3 times a day and still the drop happened. When I went back to leaving food available at all times the growth rate picked back up. Every time I go to look in the cage there is at least one hunting or eating, no matter what time it is, day, early lights out or an hour or so before the lights come on in the morning. Now I do have four Ackies all housed together but I would think the feeding instinct is close to the same. I just figured in the wild they are opportunistic feeders eating everything they can when possible so why neglect them of that.
Sorry it took me so long to get back, not really been on the net much.
Cheers for that link it helped me understand mbd quite a bit more!
Yeah I switched him to fuzzies a while back now and still dusting the locusts daily :D
I always leave the locusts in till theyre gone, which is generally when I come back from work and then maybe add a few more. Ive also emptied a few tubs of lob worms into the soil a while back but who knows if hes even came accross any of them yet lol!
jhinton6932
01-03-13, 06:20 PM
I have never heard of them defecating in their burrow.
Also it is very normal for them to spend lots of time down there, they are underground dwellers.
I commonly have to bribe mine with treats to get them out of their holes.
lol thats the only way i see mine anymore due my hours i work
Oh yeah and tried him on full bodied shrimp but he doesnt seem to like those lol
infernalis
01-04-13, 09:56 AM
Oh yeah and tried him on full bodied shrimp but he doesnt seem to like those lol
They may not always.
Put some in a dish with lobworms, the smell will transfer.
They may not always.
Put some in a dish with lobworms, the smell will transfer.
Ah good thinking!
I cant seem to find if you are able to get crayfish for it or not. As they are live, they move around and attract attention easier than the shrimp, which might help. You might not be able to find them in pet stores but Id guess that aquarium keepers over there probably sell them like they do here.
I cant seem to find if you are able to get crayfish for it or not. As they are live, they move around and attract attention easier than the shrimp, which might help. You might not be able to find them in pet stores but Id guess that aquarium keepers over there probably sell them like they do here.
Im not sure mate. Never thought of trying aquarium keepers. How big are they though? Cause my little guy is only about a foot or so last I checked do not sure if they would be suitable as of yet?
You can get them just about any size as they start out just tiny. Aquarium keepers get rid of their extras as they eventually will take over a fish tank and eat everything in sight after they breed.
Nice man cheers ill have a look about then :D
infernalis
01-04-13, 04:00 PM
From what I understand, with a big tank setup, Crayfish will reproduce like cockroaches once established.
I have abundant crayfish during the summer at my disposal for free, so I have never thought about trying to breed them.
Pirarucu
01-04-13, 05:23 PM
From what I understand, with a big tank setup, Crayfish will reproduce like cockroaches once established.
I have abundant crayfish during the summer at my disposal for free, so I have never thought about trying to breed them.Some species don't even breed at all, Marbled Crayfish are all parthenogenic females. Those things clone themselves like no tomorrow..
They are pretty easy to get to reproduce, thats for sure! It takes some time for them to get big enough to feed an adult though. Also depends a lot on the species.
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