Savannah Monitor. What Substrate/soil?????

[Palaciosivan]

I want my guy to be able to burrow!! What should I use? I work at The Home Depot and we have alot of dirts and soils. which one should i pick for my Savannah??? The choices are literally endless.

[BarelyBreathing]

For sand, use children's washed play sand. For soil, it needs to be 100% organic soil, and there cannot be inorganic materials in the soil. I haven't found good soil at Home Depot, so I use Eco Earth. I mix it together 60% Eco Earth, and 40% sand.

[Little Wise Owl]

I had a lot of issues finding just PURE soil at places like Home Depot so I just went into my backyard (we don't use pesticides or chemicals) and dug up my own sandy soil. It had tons of earthworms in it so my little guy had a lot of snacks. lol

I then mixed it with some moist eco earth and it's been holding burrows pretty well.

[Palaciosivan]

For sand, use children's washed play sand. For soil, it needs to be 100% organic soil, and there cannot be inorganic materials in the soil. I haven't found good soil at Home Depot, so I use Eco Earth. I mix it together 60% Eco Earth, and 40% sand.
Perfect! I have a ton of eco earth for my Invert's, i was thinking about it but wasn't sure how it would be for burrowing, so you just helped me make my mind up Thanks. But if anyone else has suggestions, please don't hesitate:).

[Palaciosivan]

I had a lot of issues finding just PURE soil at places like Home Depot so I just went into my backyard (we don't use pesticides or chemicals) and dug up my own sandy soil. It had tons of earthworms in it so my little guy had a lot of snacks. lol

I then mixed it with some moist eco earth and it's been holding burrows pretty well.
I live in condo's and I know the gardeners are useing alot of pesticides!
wouldnt want to risk it. But I could ask a friend to dig up his yard lol..:yes:

[jhinton6932]

i think scotts makes a good organic topsoil you may carry it. make sure its the one with no junk in it. it will list whats in it. should say something along the lines that it is allowed for use in california if im not mistaken.

[BarelyBreathing]

You can go to a public creek and dig up a good substrate from there. In places like reserves, open spaces, and state parks you don't have to worry about chemicals.

[infernalis]

You can go to a public creek and dig up a good substrate from there. In places like reserves, open spaces, and state parks you don't have to worry about chemicals.

You still have to be careful with that concept...

It's my age... but I can name off a few places that LOOK like lush little preserves now that were landfills / scrap yards and waste dumps 30 years ago.

Know the history of the place you are digging up. http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/varanid/95503-upgrading-dirt.html

A dirt thread I started a little while ago.

[BarelyBreathing]

Very true, Wayne. In a recent endeavor I tried getting substrate from the creek. First off, it was 100% sand, secondly there were so many broken beer bottles that no matter how far down I dug, the sand was still littered with green and brown. Big disappointment. However I did find some interesting tracks.

[infernalis]

every once in a while I find things in my creek that wash down from upstream.

[Palaciosivan]

You still have to be careful with that concept...

It's my age... but I can name off a few places that LOOK like lush little preserves now that were landfills / scrap yards and waste dumps 30 years ago.

Know the history of the place you are digging up. http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/varanid/95503-upgrading-dirt.html

A dirt thread I started a little while ago.
I Like the thread. Gave me great ideas. I now have to check the history of my local places where I can get dirt.

Wayne, do you think the eco earth and sand idea is a good one?
Is all eco earth equal and is it all coco coir?

[jarich]

I think it would work just fine, but it seems like a really expensive way to go. As does buying it by the small bags they often sell in hardware stores. Even in the big cities there are usually places that sell organic soil in bulk, without the fertilizers and vermiculite.

[jhinton6932]

eco earth makes a good leaflitter for forest dwelling species. horrible for holding burrows though

[Palaciosivan]

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/images/icons/icon5.gif Re: Lizard Ladder (second video)
Wayne Can we Get pitures, specs and a break down of your enclosure?
Does it have glass around it or is it all open i've seen lots of pics but can't tell if you have it enclosed or it's just open for them to roam...:confused:
I think it's amazing and want some ideas for my Savy Permanent enclosure.

Kind regards,

[Pirarucu]

eco earth makes a good leaflitter for forest dwelling species. horrible for holding burrows thoughOnce you add sand, it will hold a burrow. It is mighty expensive though..

Wayne's enclosure is a sealed wooden box with a window unless I'm badly mistaken.

[jhinton6932]

10 bux a bag/brick right? oh jeez that'd be well over 200$ to fill an 8x4 haha

[infernalis]

per request....

http://www.varanus.us/cage/cage.jpg

with the door propped open....

http://www.savannahmonitor.net/husbandry/cage.jpg

[infernalis]

My Youtube Channel (https://www.youtube.com/user/Infernalis1?feature=mhee)

Should give you lot's of ideas.:)

[Palaciosivan]

My Youtube Channel (https://www.youtube.com/user/Infernalis1?feature=mhee)

Should give you lot's of ideas.:)

Nice! the door for the enclosure, is that a pre made window or is it DIY frame for a custom piece of cut glass? if it's custom glass, did you use 1/8'' or 1/4'' glass?1/8'' glass seams kind of flimsy but 1/4'' seams heavy to prop.

[Palaciosivan]

My Youtube Channel (https://www.youtube.com/user/Infernalis1?feature=mhee)

Should give you lot's of ideas.:)
Where did you get the light fixtures that hang? What type of fluorescent bulbs are those 6500k?

[Taco]

For all the soil. Does it ever dry out? Or do you want it to eventually dry out? Are any of you worried about any of the tiny bugs/mites that might grow from having the soil always moist? Plus how often do you guys change it?

[Palaciosivan]

For all the soil. Does it ever dry out? Or do you want it to eventually dry out? Are any of you worried about any of the tiny bugs/mites that might grow from having the soil always moist? Plus how often do you guys change it?
This is also a good question..

[AjaMichelle]

For all the soil. Does it ever dry out? Or do you want it to eventually dry out? Are any of you worried about any of the tiny bugs/mites that might grow from having the soil always moist? Plus how often do you guys change it?

You'll want to include a drainage layer so the soil can dry. If you're adding water by misting it to maintain proper soil humidity for burrows, etc., you will end up with a layer at the bottom that's soaked and stagnates if there's no way for oxygen to move through through the soil. This will also kill any live plants that have survived your sav.

The top few inches of the soil/sand mix is usually baked hard like a clay, due to the basking lights, which also encourages a stagnating layer at the bottom by limiting air movement through the soil.

This is prevented by adding a layer of mulch or leaf litter on top of your substrate. :)

I'm not planning on changing the substrate, only adding more. Of course, I'll be moving in a few years so I'll have to take all of it out. It will inevitably be rotated and refreshed at this time.

[infernalis]

For all the soil. Does it ever dry out? Or do you want it to eventually dry out? Are any of you worried about any of the tiny bugs/mites that might grow from having the soil always moist? Plus how often do you guys change it?

The "bugs/mites" and bacteria are beneficial to the bio active nature of the soil.

I have never changed my dirt, the feces (poop) breaks down within a day and only enriches the dirt more.

[infernalis]

Nice! the door for the enclosure, is that a pre made window or is it DIY frame for a custom piece of cut glass? if it's custom glass, did you use 1/8'' or 1/4'' glass?1/8'' glass seams kind of flimsy but 1/4'' seams heavy to prop.

I used a shower door, it is already framed, already sealed & it's safety glass.

Where did you get the light fixtures that hang? What type of fluorescent bulbs are those 6500k?

The 4 foot long fixture was salvaged by taking apart a 55 gallon aquarium light hood and removing the insides.

The 6500K lights are simply "Wal Mart" porch light bulbs. Nothing special.. You can buy them anywhere, they will say 6500K right on the box. (Also labeled "daylight")

[Taco]

So what can you do as a drainage layer for the bottom of the enclosure?

[infernalis]

So what can you do as a drainage layer for the bottom of the enclosure?

Wish I had an answer.

I lined the bottom of my enclosure in sheet aluminum and poly vinyl,

I can hear the toenails scraping the aluminum sometimes, so I know my lizards have dug all the way down and are trying to keep going.

Now I want to "test dig" a corner and see what's down there.

[jarich]

Gravel works. About an inch or two layer in the bottom so that the water can drain out of the soil.

[Taco]

Only problem with that is where does the water go after it drains to the gravel when you have a sealed enclosure.. I'm actually curious as to what happens down there after a few months. I'm also worries about my baby sav digging down and then the dirt collapsing on her for whatever reason. Would she be able to dig her way back up?

[infernalis]

Only problem with that is where does the water go after it drains to the gravel when you have a sealed enclosure.. I'm actually curious as to what happens down there after a few months. I'm also worries about my baby sav digging down and then the dirt collapsing on her for whatever reason. Would she be able to dig her way back up?

Yes, they can dig themselves back out...

Placement of items inside the cage are important. Simply sitting a large rock or log inside the cage is just asking for the lizard to dig under it, and the item can fall on it unless the item is secured.

[jarich]

The water is down there either way. Its just that the gravel keeps the water from being in the soil, where it would mold heavily and spread up. I would guess the standing water will just grow algae, so not a big deal.

[Palaciosivan]

The water is down there either way. Its just that the gravel keeps the water from being in the soil, where it would mold heavily and spread up. I would guess the standing water will just grow algae, so not a big deal.
I dont think it would grow algae cuz it needs light to grow and i'm sure the light doesn't get down that far.

[jarich]

Fair point!

[AjaMichelle]

So what can you do as a drainage layer for the bottom of the enclosure?

I used large stones, then pea gravel. My drainage layer is about 3 inches thick. It's connected to an output so the water in the drainage layer can empty into a tray and I can move oxygen through the soil. :)

Large stones (River Rock):
http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor%20Enclosure/IMG_1536.jpg

http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor%20Enclosure/IMG_1537.jpg

First layer of pea gravel over large stones:
http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor%20Enclosure/IMG_1539.jpg

http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor%20Enclosure/IMG_1540.jpg

Output allowing drainage layer to actually drain.
http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor%20Enclosure/P9160498.jpg

http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor%20Enclosure/P9160498_01.jpg

[poison123]

10 bux a bag/brick right? oh jeez that'd be well over 200$ to fill an 8x4 haha

i get 3 bricks for $6

[jhinton6932]

thats not bad i guess still kind of pricey though when you can get decent dirt for like 1.00$ per 50lbs bag

[Taco]

How much water do you end up actually getting in the tray? And how much do you put into the tank per day or week or however often you do it?

[Palaciosivan]

[quote=AjaMichelle;783147]I used large stones, then pea gravel. My drainage layer is about 3 inches thick. It's connected to an output so the water in the drainage layer can empty into a tray and I can move oxygen through the soil. :)

AJA that setup is too sick:freakedout:! In the pics i see somthing blue next to the drainage output is that your filter for Liams pond? can we se some pics of that please??:freakedout:

[AjaMichelle]

I saw a single drop fall out last week but other than that nothing. I've been misting it regularly, everyday, to keep her clay area moist and to try to keep the remaining plants alive. I've dug into the soil to see how wet it's getting and the soil is damp, but not soaked. It's holding burrows well.

[AjaMichelle]

AJA that setup is too sick:freakedout:! In the pics i see somthing blue next to the drainage output is that your filter for Liams pond? can we se some pics of that please??:freakedout:

Thanks! :) I'll make a thread. :)

[Palaciosivan]

Thanks! :) I'll make a thread. :)

Sounds great let me now when you do.

[Snickers]

"ok i'm in a massive argument on another site, apparently my opinions are nonfactual bull squat, so i'm asking for yours, what is every bodies take on providing a deep substrate of 2ft or more for large monitors such as savannahs or in the case of beardies or other semi-arid species for those with out monitor experience, i'm not talking about for enrichment or to make the tank look good but for the prevention of dehydration in captivity prolonging life, if any one has scientific or other documentation proving that deep substrate beds do prevent dehydration link for all of us to see."

Is there any documentation that deep substrates beds prevent dehydration?

[infernalis]

Is there any documentation that deep substrates beds prevent dehydration?

A half million plus dead lizards should be documentation enough.

Captive Monitor Health! (http://www.varanid.us/gout/)

There is a scientific (although worded for easy comprehension) description as to the how and why linked above.

Common sense, ever been in a cave or mine shaft?? the air is dank and wet.

Now with all of that aside, why would anyone ever want to deny a burrowing animal species it's burrows?? That's just cruelty plain and simple.

I liken it to keeping a fish in a shot glass of water. Sure it will survive for a short while, but it will not live.

What would you consider your life like if you had to spend it all locked in a closet under uncomfortable conditions?? (not sure about you, but I would rather be dead)

Quality of life is more important than mere survival.

What right do we have as human beings to remove wild animals from their habitat for the sole purpose of an amusing display??

May as well stuff and mount it, it's more humane.