Help. Female had slugs.

[jaleely]

Help. Please don't flame. My female sand boa pooped a little bit on me tonight, and i noticed it was bloody. I saw what i thought was a bit of substrate sticking out of her vent, and tugged on it. It broke off, but i thought it looked weird. So i took her to the bathroom over the sink, and massaged the area and this large amount of what i thought was pus came out (I have seen snake pus before from an impacted scent gland). I freaked out, and ran my thumb along her body, firmly, pushing out all I could. More and more came out, and then i realized they were slugs! There were a couple of red veins, and some definate egg casings. Now I really panicked because I figured I had to keep going because obviously I had burst them, and I didn't know what to do. I worked at least four burst slugs out. Bright yellow, stinky, with obvious casings. Def not pus (snakes have solid/chunky pus, but this was gel-like)
She wasn't acting in pain, but i know it must have hurt her. Also i realized i was probably pushing too hard.
Of course at the end, there was some blood that came out along with some other liquid.

Did i do the wrong thing? Having possibly done the wrong thing, is she going to be okay?
I soaked her vent in some povidine solution, which was given to me by a vet for the soak after my hognose had the plugged scent gland. She seems okay, acting, and the irritation around the vent went away, though her belly is a bit pink because i realize i probably pushed too roughly.

Snakes have organs along their body, long and in length, but I wasn't thinking it was her uterus at first, i thought it was just pus from something else so i was really working it out.
: (
I felt so sick afterwards thinking i have hurt her that i'm very, very upset. Please nice advice, and please advice! : (

[jaleely]

I wasn't trying to breed her, btw. This was totally unexpected. I've had her for about 9 months or so.

Trying to read about it. Would this only happen if she had had sperm? bad sperm, or something? would this happen to her anyway, or does this only happen if she's been with a male and it just didn't take?

Is this something i'll have to expect to randomly happen from other female snakes?

How about this particular snake...did i hurt her by getting them out? : (

I had actually suspected she was impacted, and that's the only reason i even initiated anything. I saw something stick out that didn't come out when she did what i thought was pooping on me : (

[Kaetlinv]

Not advice, but i hope she turns out alright...


I really hope she is alright, and i hope no one flames you...we all make mistakes and flames would just make things worse because i can tell youre worried and distressed. Flames will only make that worse.


(Edit: posted after you did. You answered my question, jaleely)

[jaleely]

Thanks kaet. She seems fine today. No bruising from me pushing on her, and her vent looks good. She's just chillin.
:confused::sorry:

[jaleely]

Talked with a reputable sand boa breeder, and he assured me that though it probably wasn't the best idea to force out the slugs, she would be okay, as long as i did get them all out, or she passes them. I had been worried about the pressure i put on her body, but he said i would have known right then, and since she was fine with no brusing it's probably okay. As long as i hadn't pushed further up her body (where her other organs are...which i hadn't). She's been fine, acting normal and ATE last night.

Was also keeping an eye out to see if she passed any leftovers and she did. So, she's okay.
Wish i hadn't freaked out and thought it was pus. It had a strange smell (which apparently slugs do) and my only experience with anything like this *was* pus, so ...
But, lesson learned, and i'm so so glad she didn't have to pay too harshly for my lack of knowledge!

She should have been able to pass the slugs on her own. She may have been doing that, when this whole thing initiated. Otherwise she would just pass them, or reabsorb them.
ANyway, she's fine now : )

[alessia55]

I moved this to the Erycines section so more sand boa people will find it.

I'm sorry you had to endure such a stressful moment- I would've panicked too. Hopefully she won't have any lasting consequences from what you did to her. Keep us updated on her condition.

[jaleely]

yeah : (
Sucks.

[PopGoesAli]

Aww I'm glad she is okay,,
So is it normal for them to pass slugs?
Did you find that out?

[jaleely]

Hey, alyssia....actually i kind of didn't want this in the sand boa section, as it's more of a "general female snake" issue. But, i get that you guys want it all organized. But, as another poster pointed out (in another thread)...none of the people or breeders i wanted to see this, and have them respond to it, even saw it. : (
It's all over now, but maybe we need a general snake section for emergencies, or weird issues we'd like to get the most attention to. I know some people might abuse that...but...some of us won't : )
and that's what mods are for...buwahaha!

anywhoos...
I am talking with one of the kenyan sand boa breeders i know. I have not planned on any of my snakes breeding, yet. I haven't been reading much about breeding, becuase i wasn't ready.
From what i can tell, she had slugs because she had been with a male at one point.

I am not sure if females who haven't been with males can go through this : (
still finding out.


As an update, she is doing fine. My little girl.
For fun, here's some graphic photos on what she passed! I didn't have photos of the first batch, as that landed in the sink since i had originally thought it was pus.

I thought she still had some in her, but decided to let her pass it on her own, and she did, thankfully. I've been keeping an eye out.

SO....here's what she passed. Some dried up, stuck together SLUGS. (bad, unfertilized eggs)
I mushed them up a bit to get a good look. lol

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7258/8153081624_2a4564c56d_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/87506818@N06/8153081624/)
IMAG0882 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/87506818@N06/8153081624/) by jaleely (http://www.flickr.com/people/87506818@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7267/8153082298_c79c6d903b_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/87506818@N06/8153082298/)
IMAG0883 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/87506818@N06/8153082298/) by jaleely (http://www.flickr.com/people/87506818@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8340/8153058757_f86f75ec45_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/87506818@N06/8153058757/)
IMAG0885 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/87506818@N06/8153058757/) by jaleely (http://www.flickr.com/people/87506818@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7134/8153056223_08ac68d15d_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/87506818@N06/8153056223/)
IMAG0884 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/87506818@N06/8153056223/) by jaleely (http://www.flickr.com/people/87506818@N06/), on Flickr

[mykee]

Ok, a gravid female (even with slugs) would have passed those on her own without any issues. The fact that you palpated them out of her was probably not the best idea, as you could have ripped or even palpated out the oviduct (which would cause infertility and even death). If she seems fine and is still alive and you did not in fact see the oviduct, she should be fine.

[jaleely]

What would the oviduct have looked like, being squeezed out of her vent? *would* i have seen it? If i did injure that part of her...does it mean death all of the time? Has that happened before, that you know of?
Now that i had the terminology i was able to look up some stuff on that.

Honestly, i go back and forth between thinking i've killed her and she's just waiting to die, and she's okay.
She is going into shed right now, and *looks* okay...has acted okay...but i do know i may have damaged her, if she survives, bad enough that she may not ever produce.

I read this "Ovulation occurs when the ovum tear out of the "panty hose", and settle free in the peritoneal cavity. the snake then goes through a "regurgitation like sequence" that starts at the tail, and works the ovum forward (cephelad) into the paired lateral (side) positioned oviductal funnel structures that open up facing the tail and funnel the ovum up toward the snakes "chest". The oviducts then each immediately take a 180 degree bend, letting the ova drop caudally (towards the tail) into first the right , then the left oviduct in an alternating fashion, until all the ovum have been put into their new panty hose like structures. as the ovum pass into the oviducts, they are met by the stored sperm that then inseminate/fertilize them. this whole ovulation process takes between 8-24 hours, and has been described as lumping (as there are two sets of ovum passing each other in opposite directions at the same time). "

I mean, jeez that sounds so complicated, how did i even get them out of her??
I feel like i had to burst those slugs through her and damage her.
Also, i found this article.
http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/general-colubrid-forum/49338-miracle-hogs-snake-no-oviduct.html

I made such a stupid, uneducated mistake. I thought it was pus. At first it looked just like snake pus. Such a really random dumb mistake full of assumptions.
As horrible as i feel, i'd like to learn more about it. I doubt if someone is going to make the same mistake as i did, but you never know. As far as *I* knew, i was doing the right thing.
When my hognose had the impacted scent gland, the vet said once you get the right "motion" and have the pus come out, repeat and get it *all* out...so i thought OH it's pus! Let me get that OUT! and just kept going until i saw a casing.
I didn't think it was a scent glad, as it was coming from the other end, but i just thought i had to get it out.

thanks mykee for answering. any further insight is appreciated. i'm still reading up.

[jaleely]

When i had pushed out some of the slugs, into the sink (for as may have been stated, i then freaked out when i realized they were slugs and what i'd done, and then i proceeded to get sick and almost pass out...so no photos were taken lol) there was one small patch that looked like a greenish lump, and one mass that looked like it could have been a partially formed fetus, however it wasn't how I have seen snake eggs. I've seen a photo of one that was dried and almost petrified, and it was the head and body shape of the baby but almost sculpted out of the egg yolk. This was long, and almost a blackened old vein kind of look to it. No real snake shape, just long. I wonder now if that could have been part of the "nylon" or sheeth of the oviduct, or the oviduct itself? No, freaking clue lol

[jaleely]

The last series of photos on here depict what i did to her...except that before the egg casing came out, it oozed yellow goo out (the stuff i thought was pus).
I'm just trying to be thorough so i can learn about what i did, and what the results are.
obviously since she is an ovoviviparous snake, she had thinner outer egg casings, and they burst rather than in the photos where they had to deflate the egg (extracting some of the inner goo out) to get it out.

reproductive problems - Ash Croft Veterinary Surgery | Vet Cambridge/Veterinary Surgery/Microchipping/Pet Passports/Acupuncture For Pets/Reptile Vets/Pet Vaccinations (http://www.ashcroftvet.co.uk/17.html)

[jaleely]

Snake Reproductive System - WikiVet (http://en.wikivet.net/Snake_Reproductive_System)

Just looking up stuff. Didn't even know there was a wikivet lol

so, also looking around, xrays look terrible. At first i was thinking i should bring her in somewhere and have them take a look, but soft tissue does not form very helpful xrays.
More than likely, she'll either be fine, or she won't.
But...if there is still something in there...it could cause infection, couldn't it? (That's what someone on facebook who breeds sand boas told me)
Unless it was huge, she'd just reabsorb anything left...?

Also you can see how many days passed between the initial injury/slug removal, and when she passed this last bit on her own. Do you think that's good news, or bad? If there was something else in there, surely she would have passed it by now. Do you think her passing this last bit on her own means that the oviducts are intact?

Sorry for all the questions. Helps.
Besides you guys were complaining about wanting more interesting threads. I find this interesting, if not terrifying...lol

[mykee]

Missy, relax.
You made a mistake but not one that will kill your snake and she will likely do it all over again next year and give you a ton of healthy babies.
The oviduct will look like a longer condom of two or three layers of skin; translucent and veinous. You'll know when you see it. If you palpate out an oviduct, the animal usually ends up dying within the day.

[Lankyrob]

Missy, just wanted to say that i have read all this but cant add anything constructive. Very interesting tho :)

[jaleely]

lol thank you rob!

and thanks mykee..lol well you DID say stuff all dramatic, you know. =P

But, actually, i really appreciate any information. Most of the stuff you find on snake breeding is about the process, burmation, etc. You kind of don't find much on "advice for when you squish out slugs accidentally", you know? lol
Plus, i'm still just learning more about the hobby. I have all my species of snakes, spiders, fish, etc that take up all my time. i had NOT planned to do any breeding, not for years from now. But, that is a good example to others...expect the unexpected, and don't leave anything out of your research on taking care of animals.

I'm calm now...lol thank you.

[xiuix]

Hello All, I am new to snakes and the forum.

What are slugs exactly? Are they baby snakes that are half way developed.
I have a Female Kenyen sand boa

[infernalis]

A "slug" is usually an unfertilized egg. Smaller snakes we call them jellybeans.

[xiuix]

A "slug" is usually an unfertilized egg. Smaller snakes we call them jellybeans.
Ah Thank you for clarifying that for me.

[millertime89]

back to the OP, any record of parthenogenic reproduction in Sand Boas? I know its happened in regular Boas and a few other snake species as well.