Help: feeding issues GTB

[bnol0493]

So i wanted to post here and see if anyone could help me out. I have an emerald tree boa, and have had him for two months. I have had no luck feeding him and im desperately worried he is starting to look underfed. He also has two black spots where scales came up. I have been bathing him daily for 20 minutes at a time, keeping humidity levels appropriately in his cage and temps as well. When i try to feed him he shows no interest. Any advice? His skin crinkles up in a series of 7-9 lines on the bend of his neck where hes perching. He is an adult emerald tree boa. phootos comin soon

[Lankyrob]

Why would you bathe a snake every day????

You are mst likely stressing the hell out of it and that is why it isnt eating.

[TheBoogieDown]

So i wanted to post here and see if anyone could help me out. I have an emerald tree boa, and have had him for two months. I have had no luck feeding him and im desperately worried he is starting to look underfed. He also has two black spots where scales came up. I have been bathing him daily for 20 minutes at a time, keeping humidity levels appropriately in his cage and temps as well. When i try to feed him he shows no interest. Any advice? His skin crinkles up in a series of 7-9 lines on the bend of his neck where hes perching. He is an adult emerald tree boa. phootos comin soon

Everything I read says you bathe in warm water to help them poop, not eat. :confused: (Of course, this was talking about things to do before brumation.)

[BarelyBreathing]

Bathing him?! Why on earth would you need to bathe him? In a proper set up, this would never have to be done.

What are your temperature and humidity levels? Also, no more handling. At all. These are NOT hands on animals. They stress out VERY easily and will go off food and die from handling.

[moshirimon]

black spots may be mites.. bathing daily is not needed, and as barelybreathing said it should never be needed if given right conditions. it seems to me you bought this snake without knowing too much about it. but these snakes are sensitive and you are doing alot of wrong things.

More specific info is needed. listen to the people here, and change up your care, and hopefully your etb will start eating again!

[BarelyBreathing]

Care of the Emerald Tree Boa (Corallus caninus) - *BambooZoo (http://bamboozoo.weebly.com/feature-emerald-tree-boa.html)

Only difference is, my adult is now in an enclosure larger than a 90 gallon and uses the entire space.

[Gungirl]

Please give us photos and all the details about its set up that you can provide. After you have done this we will be able to help you out.

[bnol0493]

Ok i stopped bathing him for like a week(and it was something i only started a couple days before my original post). His current cage status has been fully fixed, he is in a 70-90% humidity range, with temps of 75-80 during the day, and 70-72 at night. Hes doing a lot better now, and i have been treating the spots twice a day with reptile neosporin so to speak. His curls went back to the way they used to and hes doing great! once i get his new cage, he will have more height, so i think i have fixed all of the issues. I have been rather broke so i have been struggling to get the things i need to make his situation better, as i had a brazilian rainbow boa set up when i got him.(had a brazilian as a kid, gave it to a friend a year back). But if i give him time i think i should have him on his regular feed schedule by the end of next week. Also, Its been rather dry the past month and my one humidifier wasnt working. but now i have a cascading waterfall with my new ultrasonic humidifer pumping mist out from the waterfall. i also have a humidifier heater in my room too, so it stays at least 60% relative humidity and 70 degrees in my room. I didnt have any foliage either for the cage, which i just put in the cage as well. So i think hes good to go! now i just wait. And in terms of handling he is the bomb man. He likes sitting on my shoulders/head chillen out. Hes very unlike his expected temperment, as he is super friendly, sociable and not shy, which i find rather odd. I do know that handling them will stress them out, and i only handle him as necessary, and for no longer then 10-20 minutes. I work like crazy too so he has 15+ hours to himself everyday with no one bothering him. Let me know if you guys think theres anything else i should be watching out for or things i could do to improve. Thanks!

[bnol0493]

/Users/user1/Pictures/iPhoto Library/Masters/2012/09/21/20120921-200147/183222_10151160979283774_233699000_n.jpg
/Users/user1/Pictures/iPhoto Library/Previews/2012/10/01/20121001-011656/2KnwLEIlT%ehkj1d4xiitw/photo.jpg
/Users/user1/Pictures/iPhoto Library/Masters/2012/10/01/20121001-011639/photo.JPG

[BarelyBreathing]

We can't see your photos. Can you upload them to an image hosting site such as Photobucket?

Also, handling him around your shoulders in completely unnecessary. Emeralds are a display only snake. He could be calm because he is sick or otherwise weak (from not eating?).

[bnol0493]

Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket (http://s1307.beta.photobucket.com)
IMG_0171_zpsf5b8fa33.jpg picture by Bnol0493 - Photobucket (http://s1307.beta.photobucket.com/user/Bnol0493/media/IMG_0171_zpsf5b8fa33.jpg.html)

[millertime89]

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/general-discussion/88757-how-post-pictures.html

[Skumbo]

You're not still bathing him are you?

[bnol0493]

Not bathing him. His temps and humidity issues are now secure. 70-90% humidity in his cage. 75-78 during the day, 70-72 during the night. Hes looking and doing great. Spraying him with mite off and treating the scale spots. So in a week i will try to feed him. 18x18x24 exo terarrium coming tomorrow. New set up will be perfect with cascading waterfall and ultrasonic mister. Next project- pvc pipe jungle gym for him to perch on. Currently using found branches (treated, sprayed, and sterilized.) I got this **** on lock, yo!

[bnol0493]

im also using a warming mist medium room sized humidifier in my room, which keeps it at least 70 degrees and 50-65% humidity. So hes got back up stability.

[bnol0493]

http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s582/Bnol0493/IMG_0177_zpsf2af14f5.jpg
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s582/Bnol0493/IMG_0174_zpsf1570203.jpg
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s582/Bnol0493/photo_zpsd7bcc68c.jpg
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s582/Bnol0493/photo_zpsf14a861a.jpg

[BarelyBreathing]

Those aren't mites, those appear to be burns. Also, lose the screen top, he needs a LOT more branches, and add some live plants.

[bnol0493]

He has two three foot branches in a suspended x formation in his cage now those were older.order a larger height terrarium that came in today as well. 18x18x24 compared to his 18x36x18. So he will be cozy

[BarelyBreathing]

You realize these snakes get seven feet long, right? 18x36x18 isn't really large enought.

[bnol0493]

I adopted him as a fully grown boa. Hes 5ft. im looking at the cage now and its plenty of room for now.

[BarelyBreathing]

Can you post pictures? That enclosure doesn't sound large enough for a five foot boa, either.

[Gungirl]

Can you post a picture from a little distance back so we can see the entire set up as well as the snake living in it?

[bnol0493]

http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s582/Bnol0493/photo_zps40ed8e38.jpg


Hes doing great now. Crawling all over, and has at least 5 different points to perch at various levels. Im gonna give him a week to chill in there and im gonna feed him then and let you guys know how it goes.

[Lankyrob]

Can you post pictures? That enclosure doesn't sound large enough for a five foot boa, either.

Not sure if its the same for ETB but it is recognised that forGTP you dont NEED all the extra space and they are often kept in 2ft "cubes". Personally tho i woudl give them more space to move should they want too and my GTP isin a 48x24x24" viv :)

[Gungirl]

In my opinion- that viv is to small. I would double the size of it but that is just my thoughts I don't know how much these guys like to move around. My gtp is in a 3'tall x 2' deep and 3' wide and seeing him in a smaller viv bugs me..


http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee454/KAMacie/Blitz/DSCF1203.jpg

[BarelyBreathing]

Yes, that is WAY too small. Doubling the size would be great, but I would consider tripling it. Emeralds do need a lot of space.

[Gungirl]

^ that is what I figured but I wasn't sure seeing as people tend to think I offer to much room..lol

[bnol0493]

Thats interesting to hear. I've read a ton of the husbandry info on the web and they say that they do not need much space, as they hardly move, but require branches to perch on. hes got a 2ft tall cage (which looks more like 2 1/2 - 3ft)
He has six different places to perch and doesnt seem uncomfortable at all. And i take him out and let him crawl on the Wall mounted perches in my room, so i think he'll be fine. Ordered some spring loaded bamboo perches as well to add more perch spots. And the reptile specialist and the reptile center in my area agreed. idk. We'll see how it goes.

[Trent]

I keep my Emerald in a 6x2x2 foot tall tank..she seems to enjoy it,but I would not go as far to say they need huge tanks.Mine spend 90% of her time in the top two feet.

[BarelyBreathing]

Thats interesting to hear. I've read a ton of the husbandry info on the web and they say that they do not need much space, as they hardly move, but require branches to perch on. hes got a 2ft tall cage (which looks more like 2 1/2 - 3ft)
He has six different places to perch and doesnt seem uncomfortable at all. And i take him out and let him crawl on the Wall mounted perches in my room, so i think he'll be fine. Ordered some spring loaded bamboo perches as well to add more perch spots. And the reptile specialist and the reptile center in my area agreed. idk. We'll see how it goes.


Most people who write these care sheets can't keep an emerald alive for six months. Obviously their quite active. You yourself have observed this. Any snake, regardless of whether or not they're arboreal, will need to be able to stretch out it's entire body. Anything less is abusive.

[Gungirl]

Thats interesting to hear. I've read a ton of the husbandry info on the web and they say that they do not need much space, as they hardly move, but require branches to perch on. hes got a 2ft tall cage (which looks more like 2 1/2 - 3ft)

Just because it looks larger doesn't make it larger... :confused:

I keep my Emerald in a 6x2x2 foot tall tank..she seems to enjoy it,but I would not go as far to say they need huge tanks.Mine spend 90% of her time in the top two feet.

My GTP is the same.. He will spend 90% of his time on his favorite perch but that doesn't mean it is ok to offer less space. They still do use other spots and stretch out.

[BarelyBreathing]

Not allowing a snake to move and stretch out properly can actually cause health problems. You need a new enclosure.

[Trent]

My GTP is the same.. He will spend 90% of his time on his favorite perch but that doesn't mean it is ok to offer less space. They still do use other spots and stretch out.[/quote]

Never said that it was OK..all I said was I would not go as far and say they need that huge tanks.

[bnol0493]

There is plenty of floor space in his cage for him to stretch out. and i have the branches at different levels in lateral zigzags. hes got space to stretch if he needs. but even when he had 3 feet of space to stretch he would never do it

[BarelyBreathing]

If your emerald tree boa is on the floor, there is a problem.

If you have the room, your boa will use it. They don't stay on two different branches in the wild. You really need to stop making excuses and worry about taking care of him properly, or finding him a home with somebody who can.

[bnol0493]

Well he shed this morning and ate, and is happy as a clam and I watch him lay out on te branches after he ate then he returned to his perch position. Which is perfect, and Thats a sign that he's not uncomfortable

[bnol0493]

His coils are tight, but relaxed and his head in the middle pointing in that classic way

[BarelyBreathing]

Yes, that is a good sign, but his enclosure still needs to be larger.

[bnol0493]

Well when I have money I'll get a bigger one, but for now this will do.

[BarelyBreathing]

We're telling you it won't do. Animals needs aren't dependant on when you get a paycheck. If you don't have the money to properly care for the animal, you need to find somebody else who does.

[bnol0493]

http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s582/Bnol0493/IMG_0468_zps690c7045.jpg



Problem solved!!



oh and thank you for the help. :)

[Aaron_S]

If your emerald tree boa is on the floor, there is a problem.

If you have the room, your boa will use it. They don't stay on two different branches in the wild. You really need to stop making excuses and worry about taking care of him properly, or finding him a home with somebody who can.


LOL k....

Fine Green Tree Pythons | FACILITIES (http://www.finegtps.com/facilities.php)

Considered THE GUY for Green tree pythons (similar to ETB care) and this is his facility.

Your point of two branches in the wild is moot as they aren't in the wild.

The above set up would work for ETB's as well I presume,maybe slightly bigger. Length of enclosure has long been established as more useful than height since these aboreal snakes will find the highest perch and stay there. The length gives a better gradient for their preferred comfort as well as gradient, as seen in the above link.

[BarelyBreathing]

I have both GTPs and emeralds, and their care is slightly different.

bnol- that's awesome.

[bnol0493]

Thanks, a buddy of mine owns a chameleon and turned his room into his cage do he gave me his reptibreeze 36 inch talk screen tank. Attached that into of mine and installed 5 different perches at five different heights allowing him to have a gradient of heat. Warming mist room humidifier sits in front of the cage and the rising steam permeates his cage. Cover top, water proof black tarp on the outside of the top plus some insulatiOn around it. Misted two to three times a day along with running waterfall at the bottom. He is set, yo!

[Aaron_S]

I have both GTPs and emeralds, and their care is slightly different.

bnol- that's awesome.

So is the lack of a substantial reply meaning you were wrong in your above post? That they don't "need" to stretch out and have "more than two perches".

[BarelyBreathing]

Screen isn't good, you will lose a lot of moisture that way.

What do you want me to say, Aaron. I've already explained myself. I could start repeating.

[Aaron_S]

Screen isn't good, you will lose a lot of moisture that way.

What do you want me to say, Aaron. I've already explained myself. I could start repeating.

I'm waiting for you to refute the hard evidence that you're wrong. How you recommend setting up these aboreal boids isn't the way a lot of people do it. I pointed to a very well known breeder in the website I linked. He literally paved a lot of the way for GTP's and how we think about housing them and the like. You can always take it up with him that his "one branch" system isn't viable for his animals to thrive.

[BarelyBreathing]

A well known breeder of green tree pythons. We aren't talking about green tree pythons.

Also, it's a pretty well known fact that when snakes aren't allowed to move around, stretch out, utilize the area, they get sick, and they die. That's why so many green tree pythons, burmese pythons, reticulated pythons die in captivity. Their enclosures are too small.

On top of that, these snakes move around in the wild. Our job as keepers is to replicate that. If a snake can't move, what sort of life is it living?

[bnol0493]

sorry, i have a life i dont sit on here all day. But yes. i was wrong. I got the second cage he as 10+ different branches at different heights in his cage. I insulated the screen top and hes been great.

Newest emergence of concern though, he has three spots of dark blue scales on his body since he shed. one located around the burn/infection spot.

[Aaron_S]

A well known breeder of green tree pythons. We aren't talking about green tree pythons.

Also, it's a pretty well known fact that when snakes aren't allowed to move around, stretch out, utilize the area, they get sick, and they die. That's why so many green tree pythons, burmese pythons, reticulated pythons die in captivity. Their enclosures are too small.

On top of that, these snakes move around in the wild. Our job as keepers is to replicate that. If a snake can't move, what sort of life is it living?


We aren't in the wild. So moot point.

Where's the scientific data about "stretching out" and then death? I'd like to see this. And then to show every breeder and then get animal cruelty charges placed on everyone.

The fact is. You're wrong. I'm not saying to stuff everything into something that can't move but you're wrong here. People have been keeping ETB's and GTP's in similar set ups for awhile. A couple perches is all they really need.

To Bnol. Turn your enclosure on it's side. Going up just means your snake will always be near the lamps. The reason being that these guys will pretty much spend all their time at the highest perch. Turning it sideways allows it to go from cold or hot without compromising it's comfort.

[etc]

Also, it's a pretty well known fact that when snakes aren't allowed to move around, stretch out, utilize the area, they get sick, and they die. That's why so many green tree pythons, burmese pythons, reticulated pythons die in captivity. Their enclosures are too small.


Regarding green tree pythons, I have never heard this before. Many of them actually die because they're WC (just like the ETB in question here hinted by the scars that are common among imported animals [btw, you are supposed to give them "showers" when they're constipated]) and don't make smooth transitions, not because they don't have the room to move around in. Nowadays, many people will argue that 2x2 is fine for males, 3x2 are good for females, and 4x2 will do if you really want to give it a sweet home. Many successes have come from considerably less than these 'norms' by the way. I have never heard of a single document that suggest that chondros die from the lack of space anywhere, can you link your sources here?

Many ETB keepers use comparable cage sizes to GTPs, even the big amazon basin locales.

Amazon Basins \ Husbandry \ Perch Size (http://www.amazonbasins.com/husbandry/perch_size.html)

Just because it can be done, it doesn't suggest that it's the most viable option for the animals themselves. However, I don't think they're dying from it. I'm not questioning you for the sake of arguing, but rather actually curious where you have got this information from.

[BarelyBreathing]

Read about respiratory infections in large pythons, Aaron.

Do you buy a dog and keep him in a small kennel all day? No. Do you keep your children in closets? No. The fact of the matter is any living animal needs to be able to move.

[Aaron_S]

Read about respiratory infections in large pythons, Aaron.

Do you buy a dog and keep him in a small kennel all day? No. Do you keep your children in closets? No. The fact of the matter is any living animal needs to be able to move.

I have. Cite your sources or I'll just keep presuming that you'll pulling things out of your butt.

I want specific sources!

Also, you now mention large pythons. Your previous statement only included ALL snakes. So what are we talking about here?

Honestly, to my knowledge and experience, I've never seen an RI develop from "too small" of an enclosure. I don't agree with super small enclosures either but you're making it out to be a death sentence off the bat.

CITE YOUR SOURCES.

[Aaron_S]

On another note, comparing humans to snakes? Really? You obviously have no case here.

[BarelyBreathing]

It's a fact that immobility causes respiratory problems, not only in large snakes, but in other animals as well, dogs, cats, humans, smaller snakes. I don't have any specific sources right now, because I am posting on my phone. But seriously, look around on the internet. I thought it was common knowledge.

[Aaron_S]

It's a fact that immobility causes respiratory problems, not only in large snakes, but in other animals as well, dogs, cats, humans, smaller snakes. I don't have any specific sources right now, because I am posting on my phone. But seriously, look around on the internet. I thought it was common knowledge.

Let's back up here. We're talking snakes. I don't care about the rest.

We aren't talking enclosures of "immobility". I'm talking smaller cages then you suggest.

We'll go back to the original snake topic, shall we?

The OP suggests he has a couple perches for his snake. You say he needs more "because they don't use just two in the wild." That they NEED this room to "stretch out" and "utilize".

I present a link to GTP's, as well as someone else has towards ETB's with the SAME set ups of just ONE branch covering a 3 - 4 foot enclosure length and maybe 18 inches to 2 feet high. These snakes obviously not only survive but THRIVE without any medical issues.

My ball pythons are kept in tubs. They not only survive but THRIVE without medical issues.

We'll use a larger group here though, BHB has THOUSANDS of snakes ALL in bins. Even his GTP'S are in bins! Yet he somehow manages to breed and raise these snakes pretty well.

I thought this was common knowledge....


Where are YOUR sources? I've given several. Why not post YOUR animals set ups as well?

[BarelyBreathing]

A four foot enclosure is a different story. We were talking about a two foot enclosure.

I think tubs are fine if they are large. I don't agree with full grown ball pythons is sweater boxes. When I had my ball pythons, I kept them in tubs, too. Four foot tubs. I think if space and welfare of the animals aren't the priorities of a keeper, they shouldn't keep animals.

My enclosures, for emerald tree boas, which is what we are talking about, not green tree pythons or ball pythons:
Here's one before adding branches.
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m611/SnakeShed/DSC_0127-1.jpg

Here's one I've used in the past for a sub adult. She's since outgrown this one, and again, this is before adding other branches.
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m611/SnakeShed/DSC_00183-2.jpg

Another
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m611/SnakeShed/Old%20computer/100_4508.jpg

A juvie set up (and that top is plexiglass)
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m611/SnakeShed/Old%20computer/100_4423.jpg

Can you show me your ETB set ups?

[etc]

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m611/SnakeShed/Old%20computer/100_4508.jpg


This is a really nice set up. Are you breeding them?

[BarelyBreathing]

Thanks. No, I have no breeding plans.

[Wildside]

LOL! ITT Cage size Queen strikes again :laugh:

[Aaron_S]

A four foot enclosure is a different story. We were talking about a two foot enclosure.

I think tubs are fine if they are large. I don't agree with full grown ball pythons is sweater boxes. When I had my ball pythons, I kept them in tubs, too. Four foot tubs. I think if space and welfare of the animals aren't the priorities of a keeper, they shouldn't keep animals.

My enclosures, for emerald tree boas, which is what we are talking about, not green tree pythons or ball pythons:
Here's one before adding branches.

Another
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m611/SnakeShed/Old%20computer/100_4508.jpg

A juvie set up (and that top is plexiglass)
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m611/SnakeShed/Old%20computer/100_4423.jpg

Can you show me your ETB set ups?

The first two pics I took out but they look like 2 foot enclosures from those angles...guess 4 foot isn't what everyone needs.

We aren't talking ball pythons but you brought humans and ALL snake species into the argument with your first "rebuttal" so I went with the snake argument. I don't think you should be talking about "welfare" of animals when you're multi-housing snakes in what SHOULD be only for a single specimen especially of solitary lifestyle.

I admit it by the way, I'm a snake farmer. I keep my snakes in proper set-ups so I can breed them and "harvest" their young. My animals are fed on a proper diet, housed in correct sized tubs and live out a solid, thriving life, where they can move around. They don't get sick, they don't have bad sheds so I don't see what I'm doing wrong.

I'm still waiting for your written sources of medical issues with smaller enclosures with all snakes. I guess you don't. Thanks for playing.

[BarelyBreathing]

The first one measures four by two by four, but it's turned so that it's deeper than it is wide. You're also not seeing the foot of substrate on the bottom as is necessary to have those live plants.

The second one is a forty gallon. And again, those are very young snakes. They only lived in there until their quarantine period was up.

[Aaron_S]

The first one measures four by two by four, but it's turned so that it's deeper than it is wide. You're also not seeing the foot of substrate on the bottom as is necessary to have those live plants.

The second one is a forty gallon. And again, those are very young snakes. They only lived in there until their quarantine period was up.

Show us the full picture of your large enclosures then please. Like full, as in from centre of room then take a pic.

Also, that's the most backward "quarantine" I've ever heard. If one had a bad poop how would you know? What if one gave it to the other? Then you'd have two unhealthy snakes.

Besides that fact, feeding is an issue AND THEY ARE SOLITARY ANIMALS. I think you need more research.

P.S. Where are your original sources? I bet it's from Melissa Kaplan. *rolls eyes*

[Wildside]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/THISGONBGUD.gif

[BarelyBreathing]

First off, here is a link.
Respiratory Disease in Snakes (http://aeacarizona.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=XX(90))

Secondly, the snakes were both quarrantined separately for 90 days before I bought them to my home.

Third, emerald tree boas, while not able to form relationships with other animals, have been seen in the wild in the same tree, on the same branch, or otherwise near each other. They aren't in the same enclosure anymore. The only snakes I house together now are Amazon tree boas, but we won't get into that on this thread. The male is kept in this enclosure and the female is kept in the enclosure that has had the door removed from the front.

[MoreliAddict]

Show us the full picture of your large enclosures then please. Like full, as in from centre of room then take a pic.

Wont.

Ever.

Happen.

[BarelyBreathing]

That tank is in my closet.

[Gungirl]

The first one looks much smaller than you are stating. I am only saying that due to the size of the branches, bird house and snakes in comparison with the free room around them. Here is my adult GTP in a 3'x2'x3' viv...

You can see him at the lower perch here.. he is a 5ft snake almost 2" thick..
http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee454/KAMacie/Blitz/DSCF1203.jpg

Now here is a full shot of the viv..
http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee454/KAMacie/Blitz/DSCF1202.jpg

[Wildside]

That tank is in my closet.

I'm starting to wonder where you keep your basic living needs? (i.e. clothes, furniture, appliances) Do you have 100 sq. ft. in every room for cages etc.? Do you hire someone to dust? Just wondering...

[BarelyBreathing]

Kat, I can re-measure them. I have three other tanks that are the same type and size that I bought as a group. I feel as though I JUST measured one of them on the phone with Kyle.

Wildside, I put this one in the closet because it's one of the coolest areas of the house, not because of space issues. I have over a 4,000 square foot house with a basement that isn't being used as a living space. And yes, I have maids, but that has little to do with enclosures.

[Wildside]

Kat, I can re-measure them. I have three other tanks that are the same type and size that I bought as a group. I feel as though I JUST measured one of them on the phone with Kyle.

Wildside, I put this one in the closet because it's one of the coolest areas of the house, not because of space issues. I have over a 4,000 square foot house with a basement that isn't being used as a living space. And yes, I have maids, but that has little to do with enclosures.


Not everyone is so fortunate but you should post pics of your enclosures. They've gotta be the stuff sweet dreams are made of...

[BarelyBreathing]

A lot of them are on here, just search for them. I don't have the internet connection to be uploading a bunch of photos from home.

[Wildside]

A lot of them are on here, just search for them. I don't have the internet connection to be uploading a bunch of photos from home.


A 4,000 sq. ft. house and maids but an inadequate internet connection?

[BarelyBreathing]

A 4,000 sq. ft. house and maids but an inadequate internet connection?

I live in the middle of nowhere. The internet service providers don't come out this far. I'm tethering on a 2G connection.

[Wildside]

I can't seem to find any real good pics of your stuff, maybe you could link the threads you're referring to?

[BarelyBreathing]

That would mean I have to find them... Lol. I've posted in some of the monitor threads, some of the bio-active threads, arboreal boa threads... Just pretty much everywhere.

[Wildside]

That would mean I have to find them... Lol. I've posted in some of the monitor threads, some of the bio-active threads, arboreal boa threads... Just pretty much everywhere.


Yeah but I didn't post them so I'm not doing an extensive search to find them. Anyway these guys just seem skeptical about your enclosures so I was curious. Especially since you hire maids to dust them.

[BarelyBreathing]

The maids don't touch my enclosures. The clean my house. And Aaron is more than welcome to come and visit me, take loads of pictures, and measurements the next time he comes to Colorado. All he has to do is ask.

[Aaron_S]

The maids don't touch my enclosures. The clean my house. And Aaron is more than welcome to come and visit me, take loads of pictures, and measurements the next time he comes to Colorado. All he has to do is ask.

Pay for my trip and I'm there :D

I don't care what you did with Kyle on the phone. I'm waiting for you to post pics of the one in your closet. You can use your crappy internet connection to upload a simple shot. Just one.


Lastly, LOL at your site. I read it over, albeit done by a vet, there is NO real scientific data to back up your, and the vets claim. Even the webpage doesn't infer what you said. So I don't understand how everything is "common knowledge" when you posted ONE site. If you use that as your bible you're as dumb as everyone else who uses a single site for all their research. /epicfail

You should know that simply posting something on the internet and it being coherent isn't enough to really be considered the whole truth. Look at Alessia's site, she has 2 ball pythons, for maybe 2 years and makes a site. Do you really think that makes her the foremost expert on ball pythons?Do you think she'll know the answers that I or Mykee would know about ball pythons? I have ACTUAL experience of my own where I've got 13 year old snakes who have lived in their tubs for the entirety of it. By your calculations they should all be sick and dead. So should all of Bob Clark's animals along with BHB's, NERDS and countless others.

When you decide to show some real sources I'll consider this debate again. As for now, you can carry on as you were but don't spout misinformation because YOU believe it. I've got mountains of literal experience that refutes your claim and "your source" so MY case has been proven.

[mykee]

You want some PROOF! I've got ACTUAL PROOF for you, not some maroon quoting some other maroon from a maroon website.
I've kept some ball pythons in 23X16X6 enclosures they're entore life with me (~14 years) with NEVER a SINGLE RI.
This sounds like a case of the dumb leading the dumb.

[Wildside]

How could cage size have ANYTHING to do with RI? It just doesn't add up to me :(

[Aaron_S]

How could cage size have ANYTHING to do with RI? It just doesn't add up to me :(

It's false information it's that simple. Someone wants to sounds smarter than they really are. It's ok. Not everyone can be me.

[Wildside]

It's false information it's that simple. Someone wants to sounds smarter than they really are. It's ok. Not everyone can be me.

Right but you would think anyone with enough common sense to survive the tremor of a brain fart, would be able to figure out that standing around in a closet isn't gonna cause pneumonia :suspicious:

[Aaron_S]

Right but you would think anyone with enough common sense to survive the tremor of a brain fart, would be able to figure out that standing around in a closet isn't gonna cause pneumonia :suspicious:

I thought that was common knowledge...

[Wildside]

I thought that was common knowledge...


I guess not.

[BarelyBreathing]

Mykee, 23x16? You have taken the life out of your snakes.

[mykee]

Plenty of life left. You should see how much life is in them come feeding time. And breeding time...
At least I'm not spewing purulent exudate and calling it a fact. Sorry, I mean "common knowledge".