My respect for snakebytesTV is gone!!

[infernalis]

They keep Monitors in racks designed for snakes!!! UGH!!

http://www.varanid.us/shocking/savdraw.gif

This sickens me to see. That poor Nile can't hardly move at all in there.

http://www.varanid.us/shocking/drawer.jpg

[Valvaren]

Did anyone have any respect for them? I honestly thought most of the community hated them :S

[shaunyboy]

apart from ACTUAL bodily neglect,IMPROPER housing is the thing i hate most

it's horrible to see animals in cramped improper tanks :hmm:

cheers shaun

[Valvaren]

They did say it was a feeding enclosure only, not that that means anything I doubt they have a feeding enclosure set up like a a half **** real one. I don't know how they still have people that like them they are doing nothing but promoting problems.

[Wildside]

They did say it was a feeding enclosure only, not that that means anything I doubt they have a feeding enclosure set up like a a half **** real one. I don't know how they still have people that like them they are doing nothing but promoting problems.

That's just stupid. Why would you remove a lizard for feeding?

[Valvaren]

I don't think they do, thats what I said, its prob just an attempt to keep people from calling them out :\

[Wildside]

I don't think they do, thats what I said, its prob just an attempt to keep people from calling them out :\

Maybe they should be called out...

/contemplating

[infernalis]

I don't see anywhere in that facility that would even hint at proper enclosures, and I notice that they obscured the body of the Exanthematicus (Sav) during the video.

The video says "keep your hate mail at home, we are professionals"

Professional what? animal abusers.

That has got to be one of the most obese Niloticus I have ever seen.

[Reptilegal]

In one of Theyr videos (none of the above) explained that they have 'feeding' enclosures because they believe that if they feed in the normal enclosure it will make the snakes aggressive and bite when they are trying to clean or something like that,
But I really don't see the point personally...

[Reptilegal]

I also saw a vid of snakebytes Halloween and one of the guys dressed up as a vampire and they put candy in the snake enclosures and he would reach in and get bit alot.
That's a bit mean to the snakes.

[Rogue628]

After losing brain cells watching a couple of their videos, I pretty much brushed them off as not knowing what the hell they're doing and decided I'd never buy anything from them. It's almost as if Brian took a crash course in reptiles, barely getting the basics down on the easy ones and halfway getting it right on most other species. He's too busy jumping from one species to another, never fully learning about any of them. It's almost as if he's looking for popular ones that are easy money makers or those that will turn a hefty profit. It's all about the money, not a true deep love of the animals he keeps.

And BOI has alot of mixed reviews about him and his business.

I'd rather watch Jay at Prehistoric Pets than Brian. Some of his techniques are questionable, but there's something about him that I see that says he still has a love for the animals he keeps and breeds, regardless if they're moneymakers or not.


Of course, this is my own opinions and I could be way wrong, but until I see something that changes my opinion, this is my story and I'm sticking to it :D

[moshirimon]

After losing brain cells watching a couple of their videos, I pretty much brushed them off as not knowing what the hell they're doing and decided I'd never buy anything from them. It's almost as if Brian took a crash course in reptiles, barely getting the basics down on the easy ones and halfway getting it right on most other species. He's too busy jumping from one species to another, never fully learning about any of them. It's almost as if he's looking for popular ones that are easy money makers or those that will turn a hefty profit. It's all about the money, not a true deep love of the animals he keeps.

And BOI has alot of mixed reviews about him and his business.

I'd rather watch Jay at Prehistoric Pets than Brian. Some of his techniques are questionable, but there's something about him that I see that says he still has a love for the animals he keeps and breeds, regardless if they're moneymakers or not.


Of course, this is my own opinions and I could be way wrong, but until I see something that changes my opinion, this is my story and I'm sticking to it :D


I know exactly what you mean.

[Aaron_S]

I have my own personal judgement on BHB and their actual business practices but I don't know how much research you've done on Brian.

I have honestly met him and can attest to his love for these animals. He still has passion for them and I don't think he'd be doing this if he didn't.

I have seen some of his monitor enclosures in his facility in another video and yes they do provide proper housing for them. They have some of the only "night" nile monitors and they are kept well from what I saw in the video.

For business side of it, he is actually one of the largest producers of reptiles in the US if not the world. I believe he may only be behind the Bell's and MAYBE one or two others. They do do some foolish stuff on snakebytes but overall I think the guy loves what he does.

[CDN_Blood]

Snakebytes makes my skin crawl. I simply cannot find one single good thing to say about it. I've mentioned it many times in my own rants. Week after week they promote just deplorable handling methods, second-rate (and often worse) containment and husbandry *and* the breeding of species of which there are already entirely too many unwanteds floating around.

I shudder to think that *anyone* finds Snakebytes a good example of anything herp-related, and I think they're a huge influence on the upcoming generation of keepers, and that is just plain sad, but it does certainly explain the lack of caring and commitment that we're seeing so much of since they've hit the internet.

My friends and I routinely discuss what an awful example they set and it bothers me that we even have to talk about it. None of us have any respect for any of them - zero, zilch, nada. Worst influence ever!

[infernalis]

Here is where I have to question the housing, if they are only in the drawer to feed, then why is there substrate in the drawer, and a water bowl?

[Toronto1977]

@ Todd - Exaxtly. They're also a MASSIVE influence on the "I wanna be a Ball Python Breeder" generation. So now you've got Tom, **** and Harry, AND their mother breeding snakes, just for the hell of it. As if there aren't already enough poor snakes floating around out there looking for new homes...

[Aaron_S]

Here is where I have to question the housing, if they are only in the drawer to feed, then why is there substrate in the drawer, and a water bowl?

I'm going to play devil's advocate with you Wayne....

They do have a lot of enclosures like that and probably transfer animals around so it may have been home to another animal at some point and this week it's the feeding enclosure. They could also leave the animal in there for a small period of time to come out of feed mode and thus they allow fresh water and some basic substrate.

[CDN_Blood]

Oh man, don't even get me started on that aspect of it, Allan...it's much too early in the morning for an aneurism.

[Aaron_S]

@ Todd - Exaxtly. They're also a MASSIVE influence on the "I wanna be a Ball Python Breeder" generation. So now you've got Tom, **** and Harry, AND their mother breeding snakes, just for the hell of it. As if there aren't already enough poor snakes floating around out there looking for new homes...

Breeding snakes is such a horrible thing because?

[mo9e64]

This is just another example of the snake keeping mentality of getting the most with the least amount of stimuli to the animal.The problem as monitor keepers because of their intolerance of this type of care,is we see their potential when given options.The fact that some defend this is sad,how is keeping a huge python in a small cage different than keeping a monitor in one-existance should be more than just living.


Not all snake keepers have this mentality,so if you don't keep your snakes to the bare minimum i'm not talking about you. Even recently i have seen examples of commercial breeders who offer some kind of stimuli to their animals,so it's not like there is no choice.

[infernalis]

I'm going to play devil's advocate with you Wayne....

They do have a lot of enclosures like that and probably transfer animals around so it may have been home to another animal at some point and this week it's the feeding enclosure. They could also leave the animal in there for a small period of time to come out of feed mode and thus they allow fresh water and some basic substrate.

Good point, I guess I should ask them and see what they say.

[Jay]

I have my own personal judgement on BHB and their actual business practices but I don't know how much research you've done on Brian.

I have honestly met him and can attest to his love for these animals. He still has passion for them and I don't think he'd be doing this if he didn't.

I have seen some of his monitor enclosures in his facility in another video and yes they do provide proper housing for them. They have some of the only "night" nile monitors and they are kept well from what I saw in the video.

For business side of it, he is actually one of the largest producers of reptiles in the US if not the world. I believe he may only be behind the Bell's and MAYBE one or two others. They do do some foolish stuff on snakebytes but overall I think the guy loves what he does.
Exactly, I couldn't have said it better. Everyone's jelous.

[CDN_Blood]

I'm not geting drawn in to the pro-breeding debate, but I am still laughing at the 'everyone's jealous' thing, lol.

If Aaron wants to know my true, uncensored opinion on breeding and anything else, he knows to find my Rants. He probably also knows he won't like a single thing he reads there, and that he should fasten his seatbelt before he starts reading them because it gets pretty bumpy in there sometimes :D

[Toronto1977]

Breeding snakes is such a horrible thing because?

Firstly, those are your words not mine. Try not to read between the lines as my comment was fairly basic in its construction at best, and is self-explanatory.

When's the last you went on Kijiji? Please tell me that all the snakes out there needing homes is not news to you?! That is my point, and it's a very valid point.

[Wildside]

I see some really great arguments itt, all of which are invalid on the basis of taking an animal out of it's enclosure to feed is ridiculous. Why would you take an animal, especially a lizard, from it's enclosure to feed? Not to mention putting it in a space so small it would make hunting for prey difficult/uncomfortable, and chock full of substrate. I smell a cop out.

[varanus_mad]

I have a simple sayingin these matters... Pictures or it didnt happen

i am yet to see any updates on the nifht nile monitors and correcd t me if im wrong but theyve had them a while now

[infernalis]

I see some really great arguments itt, all of which are invalid on the basis of taking an animal out of it's enclosure to feed is ridiculous. Why would you take an animal, especially a lizard, from it's enclosure to feed? Not to mention putting it in a space so small it would make hunting for prey difficult/uncomfortable, and chock full of substrate. I smell a cop out.

Agreed....

It's well known that good old fashion dirt, yes soil from the ground is the only choice for monitor substrate, it's also been established that virtually all wild monitor feces contains some traces of dirt in it, so the whole "ingesting substrate" excuse is thrown out the window, and then to feed them in a drawer full of mulch really kills that concept.

The "food agression training" excuse does not fly with me either, My lizards know the difference between my hands and food, as would any properly cared for monitor. They are not stupid.....

So removing the animal from it's proper environment to feed it is a poor excuse.

[Valvaren]

I wish other people who had a similar amount of influence would make a video to challenge the stuff these people do, some who would get the attention and not be just another video. It would be nice to have a big honest name fighting against these people who do nothing but garbage imo.

Edit I don't mean just other people who are popular that have video I'm mean someone actually calling out these people with videos of proper husbandry, something that would make these people take notice and show their true colors be it that they actually can provide good conditions as Aaron has said or proved that they really have no clue.

[Wildside]

I wish other people who had a similar amount of influence would make a video to challenge the stuff these people do, some who would get the attention and not be just another video. It would be nice to have a big honest name fighting against these people who do nothing but garbage imo.

Edit I don't mean just other people who are popular that have video I'm mean someone actually calling out these people with videos of proper husbandry, something that would make these people take notice and show their true colors be it that they actually can provide good conditions as Aaron has said or proved that they really have no clue.

Videos are good and all but they can be called out simply through text. I'm gonna do some studying on Varanus and some other species then I'm gonna go ruffle their feathers a bit :D Watch how many idiots come to their aid.

[infernalis]

I only wish I could do a proper narrative on my videos, I can type on forums all day, but I remember a few years back when I was at a radio station for a morning show interview I was asked to do, I choked when the microphone was on.

Now get me a soft spoken woman with a UK accent to read from a cue sheet, and I would be all set!

Any UK folks know of Kat MacEwan? She sounds lovely when she speaks, would give my videos the feel of a BBC mini documentary.

[jarich]

I would be interested in seeing the video that shows proper husbandry Aaron. The video they have of the night niles does not show proper husbandry, so if there is another one I didnt see please point it out. And that tiny little "feeding" enclosure would do nothing but cause that animal stress. Due to the extreme intelligence of monitors, I dont think I have ever heard of anyone with monitors having a separate feeding enclosure, though I could be wrong. Why would they have one for the monitors and not ones for the thousands of snakes? Seems pretty suspect to me

[MoreliAddict]

I like Brian. I've met him several times at the White Plains show. His passion for the hobby is real. His business skills and ambition for making $ is real as well however.

People like Brian, who have a ton of viewers getting a look into keeping reptiles from a decent light are essential for the hobby. We need more people who enjoy our hobby and don't see these snakes as dangerous which is a big part of what Brian's about (think about our lack of support during the python ban, all we needed was people to sign a waiver). He shows off so many snakes, drawing people of all ages deeper into our hobby, it's a great thing in my opinion.

I don't always agree with how he keeps his snakes, but racks are better than fish tanks for snakes, and we see fish tanks (and other terrible husbandry) almost every day on this site...

[Wildside]

I like Brian. I've met him several times at the White Plains show. His passion for the hobby is real. His business skills and ambition for making $ is real as well however.

People like Brian, who have a ton of viewers getting a look into keeping reptiles from a decent light are essential for the hobby. We need more people who enjoy our hobby and don't see these snakes as dangerous which is a big part of what Brian's about (think about our lack of support during the python ban, all we needed was people to sign a waiver). He shows off so many snakes, drawing people of all ages deeper into our hobby, it's a great thing in my opinion.

I don't always agree with how he keeps his snakes, but racks are better than fish tanks for snakes, and we see fish tanks (and other terrible husbandry) almost every day on this site...

It's very easy to put up a front when you're trying to sell something

[jarich]

I disagree with the painting of such a broad brush stroke, in saying that all racks are better than all fishtanks. A properly adapted fish tank can easily be better than a rack, its all in how its done.

From his videos Brian seems like a reasonable guy, but then this thread was about the poor condition of the monitor enclosures, not about the guy himself. I think we can handle the issue without making it a personal attack on Brian at all.

[MoreliAddict]

It's very easy to put up a front when you're trying to sell something
It's not easy to fake a life-long passion of breeding snakes...

[StudentoReptile]

(think about our lack of support during the python ban, all we needed was people to sign a waiver).

A little off-topic I know, but a waiver/petition with a million signatures would not have done a single thing to defeat/overturn the python ban. There was no public voting, or public hearings, etc. It was all behind closed doors: the U.S. govt vs USARK, basically. And the decision for putting those species on the Lacey Act was solely based on economical impact evaluation and pressure from animal rights groups. There was nothing Joe Smith Herper could have done to fight it.
---------

I do agree that there was and still is an abundant lack of support from the majority of the herp community in these matters. Despite the shortcomings of SnakebytesTV, Brian has done a lot to spread awareness for that cause. I do feel he has a genuine love and passion for his animals.

I just think his videos should focus more on accurate content and education than on MTV Jackass tom-foolery for mere entertainment.

[Wildside]

It's not easy to fake a life-long passion of breeding snakes...

This thread is about the way he keeps his lizards. Obviously snakes are much easier to keep than lizards so no one is debating his "snake" practices, just his lizards.

[MoreliAddict]

This thread is about the way he keeps his lizards.
Thread title:

"My respect for snakebytesTV is gone!!"

A simple comment of what I think about Brian or snakebytes is perfectly appropriate...

[StudentoReptile]

Thread title:

"My respect for snakebytesTV is gone!!"

A simple comment of what I think about Brian or snakebytes is perfectly appropriate...

I agree. And Snakebytes does feature (for the most part) Brian's collection in Brian's facilities. IMHO, anything shown on SnakebytesTV is on the table for discussion, not exclusively his monitor husbandry.

[infernalis]

Thread title:

"My respect for snakebytesTV is gone!!"

A simple comment of what I think about Brian or snakebytes is perfectly appropriate...

Nope, I had respect, now it's gone.. so the title of the thread is honest.

[infernalis]

I disagree with the painting of such a broad brush stroke, in saying that all racks are better than all fishtanks. A properly adapted fish tank can easily be better than a rack, its all in how its done.

From his videos Brian seems like a reasonable guy, but then this thread was about the poor condition of the monitor enclosures, not about the guy himself. I think we can handle the issue without making it a personal attack on Brian at all.

Agreed, I never drew the snakes into question here.. Nor any individual.

It's about what I saw with the monitors, nothing more.

That's why I posted this in the Varanid section.

So I am going to respectfully ask that we keep this on the topic of the monitors, If I had seen anything with the snakes that alarmed me, then I would have posted in the "general discussion" section.

[Wildside]

I think his snakes look great! So I can honestly that I'm appalled that he would stuff a lizard in a drawer. You'd think he would know better.

[vendettaseve]

I used to like watching that show just to see all the different snakes and stuff, but its always been painfully obvious making money/ratings is first for them and the care of the animals a far second. The fact that they regularly entice the snakes to bite that one guy for no reason is a glaring example of this :/

[KORBIN5895]

Yep. Brian sure has done a lot for reptiles...

Videoing live feedings the walking away, show a sakes biting a guy in several videos and now shoving a 3' lizard in a 4' drawer.

What a winner.

[Aaron_S]

...I just think his videos should focus more on accurate content and education than on MTV Jackass tom-foolery for mere entertainment.

That is part of the reason I haven't viewed in any in a real long time.

[beardeds4life]

I see some really great arguments itt, all of which are invalid on the basis of taking an animal out of it's enclosure to feed is ridiculous. Why would you take an animal, especially a lizard, from it's enclosure to feed? Not to mention putting it in a space so small it would make hunting for prey difficult/uncomfortable, and chock full of substrate. I smell a cop out.

I take my dragon out of his enclosure to feed crickets because I do not want the crickets running around eating his poop then him eating them. I also want to monitor how much he is eating. Some lizards respond much better to feeding outside the cage. I have tried both and will always feed my dragon outside of the cage. I do not agree with it for monitors but for a lot of lizards it is better.

[Wildside]

I take my dragon out of his enclosure to feed crickets because I do not want the crickets running around eating his poop then him eating them. I also want to monitor how much he is eating. Some lizards respond much better to feeding outside the cage. I have tried both and will always feed my dragon outside of the cage. I do not agree with it for monitors but for a lot of lizards it is better.

Now that right there is a logical answer, which is what I'm always looking for. Not some hyped up bs about aggression, etc. While it's not enough to make me want to adopt this practice it was good enough to make me consider suggesting it to new lizard owners.

[Pirarucu]

Oh hell, I lost any respect for them when I watched just one of their videos....

[Gregg M]

Snakebytes makes my skin crawl. I simply cannot find one single good thing to say about it. I've mentioned it many times in my own rants. Week after week they promote just deplorable handling methods, second-rate (and often worse) containment and husbandry *and* the breeding of species of which there are already entirely too many unwanteds floating around.

I shudder to think that *anyone* finds Snakebytes a good example of anything herp-related, and I think they're a huge influence on the upcoming generation of keepers, and that is just plain sad, but it does certainly explain the lack of caring and commitment that we're seeing so much of since they've hit the internet.

My friends and I routinely discuss what an awful example they set and it bothers me that we even have to talk about it. None of us have any respect for any of them - zero, zilch, nada. Worst influence ever!

Every time you make a post, it makes my skin crawl. You are looking at things purely from a hobby keeper point of view. They BHB does this for a living.

Their snake hsbandry is right on par with how most breeders, large and small, keep their snakes. Many hobby keepers keep them the same way as well. I admit that they should not be trying to get in on the varanid side of the hobby, but other than that, their husbandry is very good. I would say better than most commercial breeders. I have seen them at various shows and every single animal on the table (hundreds) are in tip top condition. I also see Brian often and talk with him here and there and I know for a fact he loves his reptiles. You do not become as successful in the reptile business for so many years because you do not love reptiles or because you do not know what you are doing.

It is easy for you to keep your collection in big cages because it is tiny and you are not even close to a breeder. We all know your hate for big breeders and how you think people should only be hobby keepers like yourself. However, that is not the reality of this hobby. We are ALL involved in a multi billion dollar industry either directly or indirectly, like it or not.

Seriously, what is so bad about their handling and husbandry? Give an example and while you are at it, go cry to your friend about how bad BHB and snakebytes is for the hobby. I am sure it will really hurt their business. LOL.

[Aaron_S]

...the breeding of species of which there are already entirely too many unwanteds floating around....

The point I want to talk about is this one.

I don't get how it's really "unwanted" species when they sell out year after year. Don't blame the producers when it's the consumers who keep buying are the issue. The breeders wouldn't keep producing if they kept sitting on piles of babies. They obviously don't.

I'm sorry but without some of these big breeders we wouldn't have the animals we want today at such realistic costs and CBB.

[DeesBalls]

ive seen nothing bad on their handeling or husbandry over the over 100 videos i have watched of them.. they all seem to take very well care for their snakes.

i do not like the skits they do, and how they have Chewy always getting bit ...

the point of this thread is that the sav is waaay to big for that enclosure, and while some say its for feeding, some say its not. i personally dont know. i just want to make a point to say their husbandry and handeling is just fine.

[Wildside]

ive seen nothing bad on their handeling or husbandry over the over 100 videos i have watched of them.. they all seem to take very well care for their snakes.

i do not like the skits they do, and how they have Chewy always getting bit ...

the point of this thread is that the sav is waaay to big for that enclosure, and while some say its for feeding, some say its not. i personally dont know. i just want to make a point to say their husbandry and handeling is just fine.

He showed the monitor in the drawer before they claimed it was a feeding cage.

[DeesBalls]

He showed the monitor in the drawer before they claimed it was a feeding cage.

like i said, i dont know why it is in that tub... i only mean to post to show support for his handling and his husbandry... because that was taken a shot at by a few people, and i just wanted to say that ive seen nothing of that...

i dont know anything about that sav. or why they "claim" it is in there...

i cant find the video to play it.. and i cant play the ones posted...

[Wildside]

like i said, i dont know why it is in that tub... i only mean to post to show support for his handling and his husbandry... because that was taken a shot at by a few people, and i just wanted to say that ive seen nothing of that...

i dont know anything about that sav. or why they "claim" it is in there...

i cant find the video to play it.. and i cant play the ones posted...

Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5NGBEnnQgI)

[DeesBalls]

Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5NGBEnnQgI)

thanks for the link... after watching it, to ME, it just looks like a feeding enclosure... this was back in 2008... thats what i gathered from the video.

but it could be a cop out, just saving their own butts....

[Wildside]

I've got a friend who knows them personally. She's saying he has big enclosures for monitors.

[jarich]

Ha! This is turning into an Abbot and Costello routine!

This is in the Varanid section. It was started in reference to their husbandry of monitor lizards. As we all know, the husbandry and feeding practices for snakes and bearded dragons and all other manner of reptiles really has very little to do with the video that was shown for monitors. The only viable explanation that I can think of is that they took out one of a pair/group of lizards from a larger enclosure to keep them from being aggressive towards each other during feeding time. However, I have to admit that seems highly unlikely as you wouldnt bother with substrate and a water bowl in a feeding enclosure.

Whether they are great with snakes, very passionate about the hobby or helpful to the industry aside, that seems like a bad practice in the video. And since they are holding themselves up there as professionals and taking the time to make instructional videos, then it seems like that is what should be portrayed. Plus, I can think of a few better things to do with some of the only 'night' nile monitor babies in the world besides getting them to bite some guys face while he screams at the top of his lungs. Its a little hard to justify that in any way.

[StudentoReptile]

Remember that Brian's experience and passion is and always has been focused on snakes and snake breeding. It should be noted that he originally had an albino savannah with a group of het females, but arranged for it to go to Pro Exotics as breeding and raising monitors is their forte, not his.

Unfortunately, that breeding project died from some illness. :(

[infernalis]

Ha! This is turning into an Abbot and Costello routine!

This is in the Varanid section. It was started in reference to their husbandry of monitor lizards. As we all know, the husbandry and feeding practices for snakes and bearded dragons and all other manner of reptiles really has very little to do with the video that was shown for monitors. The only viable explanation that I can think of is that they took out one of a pair/group of lizards from a larger enclosure to keep them from being aggressive towards each other during feeding time. However, I have to admit that seems highly unlikely as you wouldnt bother with substrate and a water bowl in a feeding enclosure.

Whether they are great with snakes, very passionate about the hobby or helpful to the industry aside, that seems like a bad practice in the video. And since they are holding themselves up there as professionals and taking the time to make instructional videos, then it seems like that is what should be portrayed. Plus, I can think of a few better things to do with some of the only 'night' nile monitor babies in the world besides getting them to bite some guys face while he screams at the top of his lungs. Its a little hard to justify that in any way.

Thank you...

As I had previously stated, I posted ONLY because of the monitors.

Firstly, The Nile is obese, and secondly, they only show the Savs face, wonder why the body was not included... Judging by the thick neck, I would tend to think the Sav is fat too.

******************************************

In regards to Gregg's statement, Yes I can easily understand keeping a clutch of babies in a small cage awaiting final placement, but displaying fully grown animals in racks could very well lead the public (Namely inexperienced people who want to get a monitor for the first time) to believe they could keep a Varanid in a rack.

******************************************

Back to the snakes, I could give a flying leap how great they are as breeders, etc... yada yada.

I never once questioned their snake keeping abilities, I didn't even look, nor do I care to.

Keeping Monitors is a whole different ball of wax, and that's where my passion lies, Too many lizards are suffering over and over again because snake keepers think that a reptile is a reptile, and the same "rules" apply.

This is simply not true, if it was there would be tons of healthy, vibrant monitors all over the place, and not thousands of obese blobs that hardly resemble what a wild specimen would look like.

[beardeds4life]

Their new videos are much better they have improved during the 4 years since that video was filmed and so has husbandry methods. We didnt know as much 4 years ago.

[Pirarucu]

Thank you...

As I had previously stated, I posted ONLY because of the monitors.

Firstly, The Nile is obese, and secondly, they only show the Savs face, wonder why the body was not included... Judging by the thick neck, I would tend to think the Sav is fat too.

******************************************

In regards to Gregg's statement, Yes I can easily understand keeping a clutch of babies in a small cage awaiting final placement, but displaying fully grown animals in racks could very well lead the public (Namely inexperienced people who want to get a monitor for the first time) to believe they could keep a Varanid in a rack.

******************************************

Back to the snakes, I could give a flying leap how great they are as breeders, etc... yada yada.

I never once questioned their snake keeping abilities, I didn't even look, nor do I care to.

Keeping Monitors is a whole different ball of wax, and that's where my passion lies, Too many lizards are suffering over and over again because snake keepers think that a reptile is a reptile, and the same "rules" apply.

This is simply not true, if it was there would be tons of healthy, vibrant monitors all over the place, and not thousands of obese blobs that hardly resemble what a wild specimen would look like.Well stated. Though we actually do get a quick shot of the Savannah Monitor's body at 4:57-5:04 in the video, and it is indeed a sluggish and obese animal, in a cage even smaller than the one containing the nile.

[KORBIN5895]

Their new videos are much better they have improved during the 4 years since that video was filmed and so has husbandry methods. We didnt know as much 4 years ago.

We???? What exactly are you classifying yourself in?

[Wildside]

Their new videos are much better they have improved during the 4 years since that video was filmed and so has husbandry methods. We didnt know as much 4 years ago.

Is it not obvious that an animal with legs might possibly need to stand up?

[crocdoc]

I haven't read all of the posts in this thread, but I have read about half of them. This is my two cents' worth:

I saw the Nile feeding video a fair while ago and may even have commented on the youtube video at the time. I don't believe it's a feeding enclosure - I'm confident it is housed in there all of the time. I don't really buy that it's an enclosure for another animal and the Nile was put in there for feeding, either, for when you run a facility that large you'd be pretty careful with quarantine and not throwing animals around from one tub to another. Even if someone were to be swapping animals around, you wouldn't leave a water dish in there knowing that a large monitor was going to be fed in there, as it would be spilled in no time. I don't buy that water would be left in there until it got out of 'feed' mode, either, because monitors don't die of thirst in half an hour.

This is simply an example of people accustomed to keeping snakes in tubs trying to look after monitors and thinking they are doing the right thing. I don't thing Brian is an evil person. Funnily enough, I met him in person when a good friend of mine flew him to Australia to give a talk at a reptile expo and he comes across as a genuinely enthusiastic reptile keeper that, despite running such a large facility, has not lost his passion for reptiles. However, it is a very large facility and things would have to be kept in such a way that they are easily looked after and unfortunately the tub setup has been used for monitors because it is being used for everything else there. They're not going to take advice from the general public, either.

Frustrating? Absolutely.

[infernalis]

Is it not obvious that an animal with legs might possibly need to stand up?

Two thumbs up...

[Mike's Monitors]

I don't think Brian is a bad guy, he just needs to rethink his Varanid husbandry!

Keeping Monitors like colubrids, beardeds and so on just won't cut it!

I believe Brian has the room to build some nice functional enclosures...hopefully he will.
Mike

[jdub]

That's just stupid. Why would you remove a lizard for feeding?

I do it with roaches. Reason being is that roaches have an exceptional ability to find safety. Under a rock, under a water dish, etc. If I feed him the roaches in a bare enclosure I make sure he eats them all and that there's no possibility they could escape. The majority of the roaches I feed are male but sometimes I grab a couple females. My colony of thousands of roaches started with three females and one male, I DON'T want these things loose in my house.

[beardeds4life]

another reason I do it to but with crickets.

[Wildside]

I do it with roaches. Reason being is that roaches have an exceptional ability to find safety. Under a rock, under a water dish, etc. If I feed him the roaches in a bare enclosure I make sure he eats them all and that there's no possibility they could escape. The majority of the roaches I feed are male but sometimes I grab a couple females. My colony of thousands of roaches started with three females and one male, I DON'T want these things loose in my house.

That is a GREAT reason!

[jaleely]

Passion for reptiles doesn't mean you're going to be able to keep all species of reptile as they should be kept.
He's a successful business man...and business is business. Doesn't mean it's always perfect for the animals.
That doesn't' stop most people, either.
But, i don't know the guy. Though i don't like racks, they seem clean and the animals look good. BUT that lizard is FAT, and that rack is WAY too small and I really find it hard to believe they could possibly think it's okay to keep that lizard in the rack. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt here just for the simple fact that it looks so ridiculous i find it hard to be true they would seriously keep a lizard in that.

[jarich]

That is a GREAT reason!

Not quite, again we are talking varanids here, not other lizards. A bored monitor (which is pretty much any monitor in a cage) will find those roaches and dig them up quickly, no matter where they hide in the enclosure. Aside from keeping them active and hunting, its good enrichment for their lives to not just hand feed them constantly. When I feed roaches I always dump them all in at once so that they do hide and he has to find them. He will spend the better part of an hour hunting them all down or digging them out. I move the furniture around pretty regularly, and change the water daily, and have only ever once found a roach hiding anywhere.

Your roaches cant live outside their enclosure anyway (unless you perhaps live in Florida) as they require a very specific heat and humidity to breed and survive.

And again, thats not applicable in this case as they were feeding rodents.

[jdub]

You are dead wrong about dubia roach survival. My roaches don't have any specific heat or humidity. They are just in a tub in the room with the reptiles. Humidity in the room is 40% usually and about 85 degrees in the summer, 78 or so in the winter. They could survive outside their enclosure.

Also I do not hand feed the roaches, I throw them all into an aquarium, drop him in and let him go at it.

My house, my rules about roach infestation. I do not trust him to hunt or dig up the roaches in a timely manor. Adults probably could not escape his enclosure but all it takes are one male and one female to have 30+ babies in no time that could probably escape small gaps. As I said, I usually feed males only but sometimes a female is grabbed, possibly even a pregnant one (which I try to avoid by feeding all males). It is just not a possibility I am comfortable with.

Also, please see my other thread about my monitor. When I "rescued" my monitor he was already missing many toes (part of the reasons I decided on him) so he is not a great digger.

[millertime89]

Here's my take, I'm not quoting anyone because that would take too long. I'll start by saying I have seen EVERY episode of Snakebytes. Youtube helps get me through my work day and Snakebytes helped for quite a few weeks.

Todd, I don't expect a response from you since I know I'm on your ignore list. But the "unwanted" animals that you see on Kijiji is a result of people who get into the hobby because they think its cool, then get out because they lose interest. To them its a fad, not a hobby. This is no fault of the breeders. Regardless, how many of the big expensive morphs do you see posted on community for sale sites like that? I would venture its not very many, if any. Its most likely normal ball pythons, corn snakes, and BCC/BCI with the odd carpet or rainbow boa thrown in.

Its evident that there are some reasons for putting monitors in feeding enclosures, and when you're feeding thousands of animals at a time with what seems to be less than 10 people I think that lends some credence to what he said about those being feeding/cleaning enclosures.

Dave, while Brian surely enforces some quarantine, I think when you've had some animals for years as he does, QT becomes less of an issue than doing the rest of the work. I don't claim to know his QT practices but one of his videos he does talk about it.

There was a recent video where he discussed the Night Niles, they're still there and thriving it would seem. Really hope to see where that project goes.

He does seem to be running out of ideas for animal videos, probably why we're seeing more silly skits. That said I do look forward to seeing videos as the breeding season progresses and more and more snakes are hatched/born.

Brian is essential to this hobby and what he does with Snakebytes really takes what we know and spreads it to the average Joe. His videos have over 20 million views for a reason. He has 269 videos, averaging over 77 thousand views each, and with 55 thousand subscribers. It would seem his passion for this hobby is real, you don't do this for as long as he has if you lose the love.

I think its time this be moved to general discussion as it clearly has gone off topic.

[beardeds4life]

Personally I think that we SHOULD talk to Brian about this and show him this thread and see what he has to say. I will not because I feel it is not my place to do so but if I were the original poster I would. I do not think it is right for us to go on without getting his side first.

I actually do see 100-500 dollar morphs regularly here on Kijiji. But usually it is in fact normals. I also see tons of monitors and tegus that people do not take care of and tons of bearded dragons. I think it is a result of people who want a pet and buy it without even knowing fully what it is.

[jarich]

You are dead wrong about dubia roach survival. My roaches don't have any specific heat or humidity. They are just in a tub in the room with the reptiles. Humidity in the room is 40% usually and about 85 degrees in the summer, 78 or so in the winter. They could survive outside their enclosure.

Also I do not hand feed the roaches, I throw them all into an aquarium, drop him in and let him go at it.

My house, my rules about roach infestation. I do not trust him to hunt or dig up the roaches in a timely manor. Adults probably could not escape his enclosure but all it takes are one male and one female to have 30+ babies in no time that could probably escape small gaps. As I said, I usually feed males only but sometimes a female is grabbed, possibly even a pregnant one (which I try to avoid by feeding all males). It is just not a possibility I am comfortable with.

Also, please see my other thread about my monitor. When I "rescued" my monitor he was already missing many toes (part of the reasons I decided on him) so he is not a great digger.

Well, we can agree to disagree about the roaches. Obviously for your house, its your rules so there is little need to further that discussion in any personal sense. And yes, I remember your animal, but again I was speaking about monitors in general, and this thread specifically is about the Snakebytes animal, which has its forelimbs intact.

Which brings us back to the point Kyle, that no one has given any good reason for moving a monitor to a 'feeding' enclosure (that looks nothing like a feeding enclosure) for feeding rodents. The state of the monitor, and the state of the enclosure, all point to that being its permanent enclosure.

Whats more telling is the update on the Night Niles. The last few show the enclosures are plastic tubs, with a bit of mulch in the bottom, a water bowl and a SCREEN TOP AND HEAT LAMP. Sounds fine for a snake, unbelievably sub par for anyone with a rare monitor. Even a cursory investigation would show him that this is not a good set up for these animals.

I would also question the validity of these videos based on popularity, in fact Id go as far as to say the opposite. Videos of the monitors and alligators biting someone on the face while he screams at them are very popular, judging from the hits. However, I do not think that is doing our hobby any favours.

Again, Im not saying he isn't a nice guy with a passion for the hobby, but this company's treatment and enclosures are not something that should ever be shown by any reputable breeder or keeper of monitors.

[infernalis]

I think its time this be moved to general discussion as it clearly has gone off topic.


No, this discussion is the monitors only...

I wish people would stop posting about the snakes, We have a snake forum for that, this is in the monitor forum.

I have asked mor than once that we limit this discussion to the Monitors.

[beardeds4life]

Sorry Wayne I am at fault for posting about other things. I will keep it strictly to monitors and BHB

[Shmoges]

So why doesn't Brian bother to post here? Too small time?

[beardeds4life]

no one has even bothered to tell him. I feel that it is not my place to do that.

[Jay]

So why doesn't Brian bother to post here? Too small time?

I don't think he needs to justify himself to the Internet, nor does he have time.

That's like asking why the head of a major car company doesn't personally explain why there car wouldn't start.

I am waiting for him to join, hopfully I don't miss his introduction. Any wagers on what his first line will be? I'll go with; "Hey Brian from "Snakebytes" for $1000 rupees?

[infernalis]

no one has even bothered to tell him. I feel that it is not my place to do that.

Don't be so sure about that...

[jarich]

I don't think he needs to justify himself to the Internet, nor does he have time.

That's like asking why the head of a major car company doesn't personally explain why there car wouldn't start.

I am waiting for him to join, hopfully I don't miss his introduction. Any wagers on what his first line will be? I'll go with; "Hey Brian from "Snakebytes" for $1000 rupees?

Only if that head of the major car company decides to personally build trucks himself but doesn't know how to turn a wrench.

He makes money from the Internet, so I think he does need to explain, especially given that he has taken some very rare monitors and is publicly raising them. I'd love to have Brian come here and explain to us why he keeps his monitors in tiny screen top enclosures still, or exactly why that 'feeding' enclosure exists. Because its truly a mystery to those who actually know monitors.

[red ink]

I don't think he needs to justify himself to the Internet, nor does he have time.

That's like asking why the head of a major car company doesn't personally explain why there car wouldn't start.

I am waiting for him to join, hopfully I don't miss his introduction. Any wagers on what his first line will be? I'll go with; "Hey Brian from "Snakebytes" for $1000 rupees?

Nah... It would be like asking the spokesperson for the company why the car doesn't start. He is after all the face of the company...

[jarich]

Again I'm not sure that analogy holds up. He is an owner and manager of that company, and said in the video from September of last year that he was personally raising the Night Nile monitors in his office. To make your analogy work that would make him the designer, the engineer and the mechanic all in one.

[mo9e64]

This whole topic is important,the fact that those keeping snakes move on to monitors makes it relevant.I see someone like Robyn at Proexotics who adds an element to his business that shows respect for their wellbeing besides bare minimum care.It makes me very uncomfortable when i hear business is business,it makes me wonder why some are here,i am here for my animals,which if i could profit from there good care would just be an added benefit-not going to happen LOL

[beardeds4life]

Brian seems to be very good at responding to emails and stuff. I bet he would read this and say something unless he is just really pissed off.

[Wildside]

Brian seems to be very good at responding to emails and stuff. I bet he would read this and say something unless he is just really pissed off.

Or just really doesn't care what the opinion of people on an internet forum is.

[infernalis]

Or just really doesn't care what the opinion of people on an internet forum is.


This has gone beyond that, like I said, this thread is far from hidden.

http://www.varanid.us/shocking/snakebyte.gif

[Wildside]

this has gone beyond that, like i said, this thread is far from hidden.

http://www.varanid.us/shocking/snakebyte.gif

lol!!!!!!!!!!

[beardeds4life]

lol What website is that?

[Wildside]

lol What website is that?

The Reptile Report

[beardeds4life]

Thanks I sent Brian an email and if he checks it as much as he says he does in snakebytes he would have already seen it I am guessing he doesnt care.

[infernalis]

Apparently, a mesh top and chicken hearts are all good for the only 3 melanistic Niles known.....

tZcRVFQCJBA

[beardeds4life]

That dragon was really fat.

[Pirarucu]

Apparently, a mesh top and chicken hearts are all good for the only 3 melanistic Niles known.....

tZcRVFQCJBAYep, it's horrible.. Someone who actually knows how to care for them needs to just buy those off of him, because kept like that, they won't live much longer..

[beardeds4life]

Wayne got any more space? lol

[millertime89]

I asked Brian for a monitor update video via twitter a few days and he said he was gonna get the night Niles back in the show soon. He's also on his way back from Japan so give him a chance. I wouldn't be surprised if he pops in here. He hasn't lost any of my respect until a real wrong is evident. All we can really see for now is that he feeds in a feeding enclosure, the Nile is overweight, and the video you're all talking about is 4 years old. People change over 4 years.

I know I still plan on making a few purchases from him.

[beardeds4life]

Thats why I never got a reply. I forgot about his japan trip.

[millertime89]

I tweeted him in the morning, got a response in the afternoon, presumably when he woke up Japan time. I think I saw something about him boarding a plane to return home today.

[jarich]

I asked Brian for a monitor update video via twitter a few days and he said he was gonna get the night Niles back in the show soon. He's also on his way back from Japan so give him a chance. I wouldn't be surprised if he pops in here. He hasn't lost any of my respect until a real wrong is evident. All we can really see for now is that he feeds in a feeding enclosure, the Nile is overweight, and the video you're all talking about is 4 years old. People change over 4 years.

I know I still plan on making a few purchases from him.

The last video on the Night Niles is from Sept 2011, which shows extremely poor husbandry still. Real wrong is evident and that doesnt appear to have changed much in 4 years

[millertime89]

The last video on the Night Niles is from Sept 2011, which shows extremely poor husbandry still. Real wrong is evident and that doesnt appear to have changed much in 4 years

that long ago? Dang... think you could link that video? I want to take a look at it again.

[jarich]

Its possible that filming and video release times are far apart, but thats not common in web episodes. Here is the last one on them that I could find. The part on the monitors starts at about 10 minutes.
8WrHCI6BMmY

[infernalis]

Aside from the silly immature stuff, more is revealed about their enclosures..

I would expect much more from them than this.

Force handling, there is so much wrong with what I just watched.

[simpleyork]

how old are these niles? they should be monsters by now . . .

[jarich]

Its hard to tell from the videos. It seems like the three night nile videos that have been released were all shot within about two months of each other, though the release dates on the videos are farther apart than that. (Im just guessing here as you can hear them mention on the videos that it was 'a month ago for this' and 'a month ago for that') I think the first video is from the beginning of last year, so yes, by now they should be pretty big.