View Full Version : Introducing "Kink" The Spider Ball Python
What's up to all on the forum and the ball python family...I would like to Introduce My baby spider ball python named "Kink"....He Was Born in August I believe and I got him The night before thanksgiving and He was born with a kink in his tail and no one seemed to want him but I took him : ) he's been doing great and growing nice and the heart on his head is pretty cool....I haven't weighted him yet but when I do I'll update you all...this was him thanksgiving day....
http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq103/li0nheart86/2100d7d7.jpg
And this is him just about 2 weeks ago....
http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq103/li0nheart86/0edf164f.jpg
http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq103/li0nheart86/b59d7858.jpg
http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq103/li0nheart86/bec84072.jpg
http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq103/li0nheart86/ebef7181.jpg
http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq103/li0nheart86/8739dac4.jpg
http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq103/li0nheart86/e3dfc707.jpg
alessia55
04-26-12, 09:14 PM
He's mad cute. What a handsome, handsome spider BP. It's too bad that kink is where it is... Make sure his vent there doesn't get dry.
Thank You for The Reply and Comment He says thank you Aswell...And yes i check his vent at least twice a day....
jaleely
04-26-12, 09:57 PM
aww poor thing. He has such an adorable face. So his kink is right where his vent is? Weird. He poos okay and everything?
Yea he eats and poops and urinates just like any other snake will no negative effect on him at all....
Thanks!! I appreciate it well we appreciate it
I can't believe a breeder sold you that animal!
You may hate to hear it, but that animal should have been tossed in the freezer right out of the egg. No one can say that that animal won't be bred and pass on inferior genetics.
It was given to me by him when I had bought a normal from him I didn't purchase him...do
You think he's in pain or etc as he lives?
Pain? Who knows. But the original breeder cannot guarantee that this genetically "defective" (twice) isn't going to be bred. Absolutely disgusting.
I don't care about him not breeding I just think it was worth a shot to give him a better shot instead of the breeder disposing him if he couldn't find no one to take him and I came along and did so and he's been great ever since
No, you misunderstand me. My concern isn't that he won't breed, my concern is that he CAN breed and will be bred, if not by you, the next owner, or the next owner, or the next owner passing on two genetic defects. That is why I am surprised that the breeder didn't freeze him right out of the the egg.
KORBIN5895
04-27-12, 09:48 AM
So where is your normal?
@mykee
What are the two defects?
KORBIN5895
04-27-12, 09:49 AM
The kink and the spider?
no the normal i had picked up for a friend of mine while he was at work and presented the spider to me and i took him...but heres a picture of the normal......
http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq103/li0nheart86/89a5ca1d.jpg
exwizard
04-27-12, 07:19 PM
I can't believe a breeder sold you that animal!
You may hate to hear it, but that animal should have been tossed in the freezer right out of the egg. No one can say that that animal won't be bred and pass on inferior genetics.
It was given to me by him when I had bought a normal from him I didn't purchase him...do
You think he's in pain or etc as he lives?
Pain? Who knows. But the original breeder cannot guarantee that this genetically "defective" (twice) isn't going to be bred. Absolutely disgusting.
I don't care about him not breeding I just think it was worth a shot to give him a better shot instead of the breeder disposing him if he couldn't find no one to take him and I came along and did so and he's been great ever since
No, you misunderstand me. My concern isn't that he won't breed, my concern is that he CAN breed and will be bred, if not by you, the next owner, or the next owner, or the next owner passing on two genetic defects. That is why I am surprised that the breeder didn't freeze him right out of the the egg. I think this snake can and will live a full life right with you. I dont see you passing him on to somebody else, then him getting passed to somebody else and so on and so on. I commend you for giving him a chance to live. :)
Its not all about breeding anyway.
Aaron_S
04-27-12, 08:23 PM
I think this snake can and will live a full life right with you. I dont see you passing him on to somebody else, then him getting passed to somebody else and so on and so on. I commend you for giving him a chance to live. :)
Its not all about breeding anyway.
You're right it's not all about breeding but I follow enough classifieds to see "die hard for life keepers" up and sell their collection for nothing just to get rid of it when the tranmission goes on the car. Some bill collector is calling, a divorce, etc. Noone can assure me that that snake will be with this person for the next 20 years.
Yea All That Sucks....I Been Working With Him and decided to take him instead of him hitting the pearly gates...and ima do it till the end
jaleely
04-27-12, 11:53 PM
Spiders shouldn't be acceptable as a "morph" anyway, but if this guy is thriving i say more power to you, Kstar! If you do ever have to give him up for *any* reason, please feel free to contact me, or i know there are a few others on here who would take him and not breed him.
I think he's adorable, though i feel sorry for him. I really just think that breeder shouldn't have been breeding deformed snakes anyway, but hey it's what's popular so there ya go. I don't think any morph or color combo is worth bringing unnecessary bad genetics into the world for no reason other than to do it because they can, or to make money, or if people see it as a challenge, etc.
I Agree with you @ Jaleely...and I took him away from seeing the freezer or someone that would treat him wrong and be impatient with him even though he's no different from a normal ball but at times he can be a bit slow at eating but I still give him 110% at all times
exwizard
04-28-12, 05:19 AM
Yea All That Sucks....I Been Working With Him and decided to take him instead of him hitting the pearly gates...and ima do it till the endKudos to you in every way :)
Aaron_S
04-28-12, 06:36 AM
Does anyone own any albinos,pieds, axanthics, anery, hypo in any other species? Or have you ever? If so you're owning genetic defects and all breeders of them are breeding "deformed" snakes.
exwizard
04-28-12, 06:45 AM
I dont do Balls and never will because they have been worked as much as they have, but they do make great pets and are very docile. Anyone who has these snakes as pets can tell you how rewarding it is to have them.
alessia55
04-28-12, 08:35 AM
You're right it's not all about breeding but I follow enough classifieds to see "die hard for life keepers" up and sell their collection for nothing just to get rid of it when the tranmission goes on the car. Some bill collector is calling, a divorce, etc. Noone can assure me that that snake will be with this person for the next 20 years.
But this spider with a wobble and a kink isn't worth much at all (monetarily speaking). And it's his only snake. It would do him any good to try and sell it for when his transmission goes out, or to help pay a bill. KSTAR will probably keep it strictly as a pet for as long as possible. It's unclear whether snakes with kinks are in pain or have any reduced quality of life. As far as I see it, Kink is much like my Kaybe... a pet that won't ever breed, and that will be kept for the entirety of his life.
exwizard
04-28-12, 08:37 AM
Hear Hear!
99.9999% of all breeders started out with one or two ball pythons that "are just pets and will never be bred".
exwizard
04-28-12, 08:44 AM
Thats all well and good but I have no doubts that KSTAR will be that .0001% that will remain that way.
alessia55
04-28-12, 08:51 AM
99.9999% of all breeders started out with one or two ball pythons that "are just pets and will never be bred".
Maybe. But not all. In fact, I know more people who have ball pythons as pets than I know of breeders (in person). I don't plan on ever breeding my babies. I bought them strictly for the purpose of keeping them as pets. And when I did that (just like when I buy any animal) I do it knowing that pets are a lifetime commitment. I'd like to believe that KSTAR feels the same way about his pet, Kink. :) Personally I think your "99.9999%" is a bit high.
Lankyrob
04-28-12, 08:54 AM
Like Alessia i have mey many snake keepers that are just that - keepers not breeders. And i also have no inclination to breed my snakes - i would also like KSTAR take on an animal as long as i was sure (as far as possible) that the animal was not suffering and let it live out its life with me.
CK SandBoas
04-28-12, 09:49 AM
I feel that in some cases, the temptation to breed an animal, even one that has such an obvious defect, just so that the person can make some money off the offspring, is so strong that even a person who says that said animal is a pet only might do it. I have answered the questions and concerns posted towards KSTAR before, as i have a Paradox Albino Sand Boa with a defect, and honestly, i still expect to get questioned for keeping the animal alive, even though he is staying with me, as a pet only.
In my case, if there came a time that my collection had to go, which would include the Paradox Albino, i would have him humanely put down, instead of risking him getting bred. I honestly do not trust anyone not to breed him, and that is the truth.
I hope that made some sense to all of you reading this.....
exwizard
04-28-12, 09:50 AM
I like the way this thread is going. I applaud anyone who is willing to give any spacial needs animal the best shot at life as possible. Thats what rescues are all about.
exwizard
04-28-12, 09:53 AM
I feel that in some cases, the temptation to breed an animal, even one that has such an obvious defect, just so that the person can make some money off the offspring, is so strong that even a person who says that said animal is a pet only might do it. I have answered the questions and concerns posted towards KSTAR before, as i have a Paradox Albino Sand Boa with a defect, and honestly, i still expect to get questioned for keeping the animal alive, even though he is staying with me, as a pet only.
In my case, if there came a time that my collection had to go, which would include the Paradox Albino, i would have him humanely put down, instead of risking him getting bred. I honestly do not trust anyone not to breed him, and that is the truth.
I hope that made some sense to all of you reading this.....
Thats your choice as they are your snakes and thats every bit as valid as KSTARs choice to keep this one. All that having been said, my previous statements stand.
Wow Ex, you must REALLY know the OP REALLY well to make such a bold statement in his defense.
Alessia, you're still VERY early into this hobby. Come back and talk to me in three years.
exwizard
04-28-12, 10:22 AM
Just as well you know him and insist on condemning him to do what he has not done. You dont bother me anymore. I know where youre coming from, but new people may not be prepared for your harshness.
Ex; difference is, the odds are very much against your claim.
exwizard
04-28-12, 10:30 AM
I dont care.
Yes you guys/gals are all on the right page when it comes to me and how I feel about kink...he was a very small little kinked spider ball python that I saw when I went to pick up the normal for my buddy from the breeder and he was showing me snakes that he had and was getting ready to breed in the future and just showing me neat snakes he had and then we came across kink where I questioned his tail and back...he explained to me about how he was the only baby to come out with a kink but how it didn't seem to do him harm or cause him to be different from other snakes...so he then asked me if I wanted to take him and how he wasn't sure in the sex cause he never wanted to hurt kink by probing him due to his tail being kinked but it didn't matter to me and I said I'll take him and give him a great home if you're giving him to me so that way you don't have to go the other route with him/her and so that's what he did...and kink has been with me since...he was VERY shy at first but I was so curious to how he wil act and move and be that after about a week to let him settle in I began to handle him with extreme caution daily and he began to open up and relax and just like any other snake I've had he will go about his days...he started to put on some great weight and and quickly brighten up and when I would post pics of him in other forums people will offer me money for him but I didn't bite. He also never had the "Head wobble" or any of those other little nick nacks the morphs and spiders have as babies. He has a great feeding response but just recently will not take F/T and I even waited out a month and still he wouldn't give in so me being worried and a sucker I gave in and presented him with a Pre-killed mouse and he's snatched him up right away so now he's about to go through a shed so ima wait it out again and hopefully he will participate lol...he's just like any other snake I've had but ofcourse smaller cause I only kept Boas,Pythons such as Retics,Burms and balls and anacondas in the past but re-located so had to give them all up but now I wanna start over and get a few little guys again and kink was given To me in that time period which is why I just took him due to the fact that I was already in the position that he was offered to me and I wasnt gonna leave him there...and I was un-aware of the nature of kinks due to the fact that people told me they're snakes have grown out of kinks and others said they've brought they're snakes to vets to get the kinks straightened out and for some odd reason I believed it thinking it'll starlighten out and one day maybe he can give me little guys until I was doing some re-search ad learning alot of time they don't fix and it's not the right thing to do with animals that are kinked then 3 hours later joined this awesome forum where I been learning so much and was told by a very great help and cool person "Alessia55" that it'll be bad in many different ways to let him or try to get him to breed which is cause of my lack of knowledge when it comes to the breeding field. I never really read about breeding or do any re-search about it cause I'm not thinking about it due to the fact that these little guys I look at as my buddies my pets before breeders any day! And if I ever did want to re-home kink for whatever reason possible I would not let him go to someone that's not on this forum and I will consider letting him go to very good people like "Alessia55" and "Jaleely"....And i always wondered how cool some little kinks (without the kinks) will look and that's why I had said "I wanted to get a female albino ball to pair him with" if it wasn't for the kink but that's what brought up Alessia55 educating me on the nature of kinks which I'm very happy about and thankful for learning and being a part of this awesome forum where everyone has taken out the time to compliment him and also educate me on anything you guys feel you would like me to know...THANK YOU ALL
exwizard
04-28-12, 10:33 AM
....Clearly.
whatever...
exwizard
04-28-12, 10:38 AM
Yes you guys/gals are all on the right page when it comes to me and how I feel about kink...he was a very small little kinked spider ball python that I saw when I went to pick up the normal for my buddy from the breeder and he was showing me snakes that he had and was getting ready to breed in the future and just showing me neat snakes he had and then we came across kink where I questioned his tail and back...he explained to me about how he was the only baby to come out with a kink but how it didn't seem to do him harm or cause him to be different from other snakes...so he then asked me if I wanted to take him and how he wasn't sure in the sex cause he never wanted to hurt kink by probing him due to his tail being kinked but it didn't matter to me and I said I'll take him and give him a great home if you're giving him to me so that way you don't have to go the other route with him/her and so that's what he did...and kink has been with me since...he was VERY shy at first but I was so curious to how he wil act and move and be that after about a week to let him settle in I began to handle him with extreme caution daily and he began to open up and relax and just like any other snake I've had he will go about his days...he started to put on some great weight and and quickly brighten up and when I would post pics of him in other forums people will offer me money for him but I didn't bite. He also never had the "Head wobble" or any of those other little nick nacks the morphs and spiders have as babies. He has a great feeding response but just recently will not take F/T and I even waited out a month and still he wouldn't give in so me being worried and a sucker I gave in and presented him with a Pre-killed mouse and he's snatched him up right away so now he's about to go through a shed so ima wait it out again and hopefully he will participate lol...he's just like any other snake I've had but ofcourse smaller cause I only kept Boas,Pythons such as Retics,Burms and balls and anacondas in the past but re-located so had to give them all up but now I wanna start over and get a few little guys again and kink was given To me in that time period which is why I just took him due to the fact that I was already in the position that he was offered to me and I wasnt gonna leave him there...and I was un-aware of the nature of kinks due to the fact that people told me they're snakes have grown out of kinks and others said they've brought they're snakes to vets to get the kinks straightened out and for some odd reason I believed it thinking it'll starlighten out and one day maybe he can give me little guys until I was doing some re-search ad learning alot of time they don't fix and it's not the right thing to do with animals that are kinked then 3 hours later joined this awesome forum where I been learning so much and was told by a very great help and cool person "Alessia55" that it'll be bad in many different ways to let him or try to get him to breed which is cause of my lack of knowledge when it comes to the breeding field. I never really read about breeding or do any re-search about it cause I'm not thinking about it due to the fact that these little guys I look at as my buddies my pets before breeders any day! And if I ever did want to re-home kink for whatever reason possible I would not let him go to someone that's not on this forum and I will consider letting him go to very good people like "Alessia55" and "Jaleely"....And i always wondered how cool some little kinks (without the kinks) will look and that's why I had said "I wanted to get a female albino ball to pair him with" if it wasn't for the kink but that's what brought up Alessia55 educating me on the nature of kinks which I'm very happy about and thankful for learning and being a part of this awesome forum where everyone has taken out the time to compliment him and also educate me on anything you guys feel you would like me to know...THANK YOU ALL
Once again, Kudos to you and yes, you are proving my point all the way with this reply. Thank you. :)
I forgot to add that if anyone has anymore information on how the kinks effect snakes please feel free to educate me on it...and I know people have mixed feelings about how some people may find it odd that I and others that are doing the same which is taking time to feed and care for and take care of a animal that I cannot breed in the future or any other reason leading up towards breeding or just trying to make money with him but the honest truth is that I look at it like this...if I was Kink I would've wanted someone like me to take me and give me a shot at life instead of the other hand that was holding me put me down in what ever way he was going to and I wouldnt have a chance at a full life...if I ever found out he was suffering as he was living then I would Choose to have him humanely put down if I couldn't find someone who I know would honestly and truthfully not try to breed him and as I said I would only re-home him with someone who is on this forum so everyone can continue to follow up on him the same way I want to and I respect everyone's opinion and did take the time to read them and I don't think anyone is wrong nor did I take offense to anything but I am about doing what's right when it comes to everything in life especially my animals as in my pets and I keep saying him cause he does have what I think are spurs visible and took a pic a while ago and before I show the pic I want everyone to know "KINK HAS NEVER BEEN PROBED OR ATTEMPTED TO BE PROBED OR POPPED SINCE HE'S BEEN WITH ME" and at times his vent is open for a few minutes after he goes to the bathroom which he does with no problem just like any other snake I've kept so here goes the pic tell me what you guys think
http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq103/li0nheart86/fc02d31b.jpg
"And i always wondered how cool some little kinks (without the kinks) will look"
EXACTLY my point!
BTW, your spider will 100% produce some form of wobble, don't think it wont.
I hope you do the right thing and keep this little guy for his entire life, or rehome him to someone who has no intentions on breeding him. Not that you'll ever be sure though.
I will add, in all the kinks I've ever seen, that is BY FAR the worst. And I've seen plenty.
Thank you EXWIZARD and Yes MYKEE I will do my best to take care of this little guy I have with me till his very LAST DAY as I've been doing and I appreciate you all in seeing that I've been doin the right thing and only will continue to...and if I ever did re-home him...like I said "HE WILL ONLY GO TO SOMEONE ON THIS FORUM" so I know his where abouts and well being is 110% positive natured and good for him:bouncy::D
exwizard
04-28-12, 11:09 AM
Thank you EXWIZARD and Yes MYKEE I will do my best to take care of this little guy I have with me till his very LAST DAY as I've been doing and I appreciate you all in seeing that I've been doin the right thing and only will continue to...and if I ever did re-home him...like I said "HE WILL ONLY GO TO SOMEONE ON THIS FORUM" so I know his where abouts and well being is 110% positive natured and good for him:bouncy::DDont let Mykee discourage you. Its just his nature to spout things off like this. Consider the source and move on. I for one think you are doing the right thing in your choices that you have made regarding Kink.
And I'm not mad or feeling any type of way torwards MYKEE he's just stating his opinion
Lankyrob
04-28-12, 11:45 AM
And I'm not mad or feeling any type of way torwards MYKEE he's just stating his opinion
Good way to take things :)
Mykee has a reputation on this forum for being harsh and saying things straight. This in my opinion isnt a bad thing at all but it does scare some peoplle off, or wind others up.
The fact is that he is a highly regarded very experienced breeder of Royal Pythons and he does give a hell of a lot of help and knowledge to others - take the knowledge and ignore the way it is expressed and you will do well :)
We are all entitled to an opinion after all - would be a pretty crap forum if we werent allowed to express them :)
Yeah, I apologize for maybe being too harsh, but my feelings regarding putting genetically defective ball python into an already shallow gene pool raises my hackles a bit.
Squirtle
04-28-12, 12:36 PM
Guys, trust me. I've been talking to K who lives near me for a few years now and he's all about breeding. If he's keeping something in his house that he knows that he wouldn't be able to breed then there's probably a reason behind it, he's keeping Kink strictly as a pet and nothing else.
KORBIN5895
04-28-12, 12:57 PM
Yeah, I apologize for maybe being too harsh, but my feelings regarding putting genetically defective ball python into an already shallow gene pool raises my hackles a bit.
Okay. Something is obviously wrong with mykee! Did someone sneak sugar into your cereal this morning?
jaleely
04-28-12, 04:33 PM
Just to chime in...i am very new to the hobby, and absolutely nothing will convince me to breed ball pythons. At all. Ever. I have bought snakes, yes. I have been given, and have gotten snakes from the pound. I will *never* vehemently ever buy a ball python or breed them, thus fueling that whole rigomoral with them.
i own no albinos, het whatevers, etc. Just normals...and one pastel *rolls eyes* i know he was bred that way, but i like to try to convince myself that since they do occur in the wild it's okay..but i don't actively seek out morphs etc. He was my very last purchase actually, and there will be no more going into that realm. Whenever i look at him all i see is how he's probably inbred, had siblings that were put down due to deformities, and the guy who bred him is still out there doing his best to make a profit off royal pythons. That road will never be traveled again!
The only thing i ever bought with intention to breed were two dumeril's boas...which i kind of regret because i thought i'd be doing something good by keeping some captive breds in the pet trade..but i don't know that i want to add to breeding at all.
Unfortunately i am greedy. There are a few other snakes out there i'd like to have, because i like them so much (another hognose, some garters) and my options are to buy. You can sure bet if i ever see them for adoption or something i'll snatch them up.
Anyway, I can't say that if i was presented with Kink that i would have suggested putting him down. I hope he is not in pain. But other than that, he is adorable and would gladly take care of him and make sure he never bred.
Words are just words and i could be just trying to convince everyone for my own pleasure, but i think the majority of you out there belive me when i say i'll never be breeding ball pythons *lol*
and frankly, i will never give them up either. I think i'm lucky in that i have some family who would help me keep my hoard safe, until i could rectify whatever situation put me in danger or losing them.
anyway just rambling.
wow i just had to edit this...mykee are you OKAY??? maybe not sugar korbin, maybe like ex-lax or something hehe
Thanks @Squritle .....And Yes Squirtle is right...In ONE WAY LOL...I was A lizard guy at first and had plenty of them from monitors to tegus and others like geckos and salamanders but when I got my first ball python from someone that soon became a very good friend of mine I then became So interested In snakes and soon began keeping snakes and learning about them day by day and I'm still learning today...the friends I made were really heavy into Big pythons keeping only Burmese and reticulated pythons and I learned alot from those guys Aswell and they were Into it all as far as having snakes as pets and breeding them and for the record I ONE DAY IN THE FUTURE WOULD LIKE TO ACCOMPLISH CREATING A NEW SNAKE LIKE A MORPH OR EVEN NEW BREED! But all my animals not only snakes are just pets to me and maybe later on in the future I might consider buying some stuff to breed just to be able to expirence what it's like to hatch out your own little babies but right now I only have kink and my future of even maybe thinking of breeding is far ahead! So I don't wan anyone thinking I'm a breeder cause by all means I'm no where near it but am interested in it as far as how the whole process goes I think it's cool but really also think I won't ever breed anything due to the fact that I think it stresses them out in many ways and I've even had dogs all my life and never had them mate or even think of becoming a future breeder THIS IS A HOBBY FOR ME AND IT'S WHAT I LOVE AND ANIMALS IS WHAT I LOVE AND ALL MY PETS ARE ALWAYS GETTING 110% AND ALWAYS WILL FOR AS LONG AS I KEEP ANYTHING...I have a huge interest in animals and always have and think I always will...and I'm here to share that with others and learn from others IM NOT PART OF THE BREEDING GROUP although I think what they do is cool as far as making all these morphs and hatching out cool snakes
Aaron_S
04-28-12, 04:43 PM
... i know he was bred that way, but i like to try to convince myself that since they do occur in the wild it's okay..but i don't actively seek out morphs etc. He was my very last purchase actually, and there will be no more going into that realm. Whenever i look at him all i see is how he's probably inbred, had siblings that were put down due to deformities...
I just want to put the rest that not all ball pythons are some inbred, deformed, disgusting snake. In fact, they are so commonly bred that they have been outcrossed a ridiculous amount so you don't see deformities in morphs like pastels. We still have a lot of captive hatched animals that came in years ago that people would dinker with furthering along the bloodlines.
Contrary to popular belief here it's not a single baby out of every clutch of 8 that is somehow against the odds not deformed like it's siblings.
No offense to the breeders out there or anything like that...lol...like I said I've been around friends of mine that have bred snakes and I've helped them with space and keeping snakes at my place for them and thats when I thought it was just me or maybe the snakes do become some what stressed due to breeding as I analyzed them after they've locked up but as I said I have nothing against breeders and like I said I think they're hard work is cool in how they make all these cool morphs and stuff and I would like to do that once in life only for the experience and nothing more....When you keep pets/animals for so long as pets it's hard to look at them as anything else cause that's how I am maybe it's just me...but I didnt look at kink and take him and say "I'm gonna make some sweet spiders" I looked at him and said...man I gotta get this little guy home and fat ASAP! Lol...just a bit of my thoughts
@ Aaron_s Can you explain more about the ball pythons and the inbreeding...Is that the reason why some snakes are born with weird characteristics like spiders and the head wobble? Kink was the first kinked animal I've ever owned I never came across them before kink
Aaron_S
04-28-12, 05:11 PM
Wobbles came with the mutation from the get go. Right from the wild.
Sometimes, when selectively breeding, like mom to son, to bring out certain colour or pattern characteristics a bad gene, like kinking or duck billing will also come along with it. Kind of get it now? That's what everyone is speaking about.
Ooo ok I get you so basically crossing family Also known as inbreeding will always bring along a negative effect on the offspring
Not necessarily though. Caramels kinking has nothing to do with inbreeding. Caramels are outcrossed to normals all the time to produce hets and when those hets are bred back to caramels, roughly 50-70% of those animals will have kinks.
Man I'm all into this now...I know nothing about this breeding stuff so Mykee feel free to keep going I'm taking notes hahaha
Aaron_S
04-28-12, 06:16 PM
Mykee is correct. I should have probably also stated that it isn't as cut and dry as I made it out to be. Just that sometimes that's how it's passed on and expressed more often.
Deformities happen. Ralph Davis once had a snake born with it's heart on the outside. Morph doesn't matter. It happens to ALL species. If it was about morphs than ball pythons would be hatching with two heads on a very regular basis and not all the other species that have.
I had a baby born with it's heart outside its body.
KORBIN5895
04-28-12, 07:08 PM
Sorry but I just about chocked when I thought of mykee reproducing and having children.
alessia55
04-28-12, 07:11 PM
Mykee's heart is outside his body ... :laugh:
Aaron_S
04-28-12, 07:24 PM
Sorry but I just about chocked when I thought of mykee reproducing and having children.
He's great with kids! I hear he takes very good care of you...
CK SandBoas
04-28-12, 07:29 PM
Mykee's heart is outside his body ... :laugh:
Mykee has a heart, it may not be geared towards the human race, but at least it's geared towards the responsible keeping and breeding of Snakes:)
exwizard
04-28-12, 07:31 PM
This is great. :)
jaleely
04-28-12, 07:34 PM
lol! you guys do crack me up, i'll give you that!
Okay, so ...regardless i'm not getting into that whole ball python breeding realm. I will say that there are a few breeders out there that i have met, whom don't seem to have all the deformities or interbreeding issues...but things like the carmels..70% likelyhood of kinks? seriously is that worth it?? Not to mention all the internal deformities or weaknesses the animal could have and show later in life. I am not against some breeding...but jeez i just feel like people have gone CRAZY...
Things happen. But it seems like lately i've read of it happening a LOT and either people are being more vocal about it, or...there a lot of new breeders out there who aren't doing as well with this as well established breeders...which is what i suspect.
Mykee...how long you been breeding snakes and how do your first clutch feel? Was it like exciting and stuff like that?
Aaron_S
04-28-12, 08:25 PM
lol! you guys do crack me up, i'll give you that!
Okay, so ...regardless i'm not getting into that whole ball python breeding realm. I will say that there are a few breeders out there that i have met, whom don't seem to have all the deformities or interbreeding issues...but things like the carmels..70% likelyhood of kinks? seriously is that worth it?? Not to mention all the internal deformities or weaknesses the animal could have and show later in life. I am not against some breeding...but jeez i just feel like people have gone CRAZY...
Things happen. But it seems like lately i've read of it happening a LOT and either people are being more vocal about it, or...there a lot of new breeders out there who aren't doing as well with this as well established breeders...which is what i suspect.
Melissa, I believe it's always been there. Regardless of species. I think it's all circled around ball pythons due to the prices never being higher for snakes since the first mutations came onto the scene.
I believe, if you breed a species enough it's bound to have issues. Humans do all the time.
Rogue628
04-28-12, 08:40 PM
I like the way this thread is going. I applaud anyone who is willing to give any spacial needs animal the best shot at life as possible. Thats what rescues are all about.
I couldn't agree more.
Good way to take things :)
Mykee has a reputation on this forum for being harsh and saying things straight. This in my opinion isnt a bad thing at all but it does scare some peoplle off, or wind others up.
The fact is that he is a highly regarded very experienced breeder of Royal Pythons and he does give a hell of a lot of help and knowledge to others - take the knowledge and ignore the way it is expressed and you will do well :)
We are all entitled to an opinion after all - would be a pretty crap forum if we werent allowed to express them :)
True. Mckee comes across harsh alot, but he's too the point and only has the animal's best interest at heart, and, in a way, yours as well. I think he does want us to be the best owners possible. Snakes get enough of a bad rep that's largely due to bad ownership. We must all be responsible for our animals and show them in the best light possible by being responsible owners. It's a circle of sorts. Responsible owners have good animals and good animals show a responsible owner. This is what the world needs to see.
Okay. Something is obviously wrong with mykee! Did someone sneak sugar into your cereal this morning?
Haha! I know right? But Mckee is a good person, even if he is blunt and sometimes harsh.
Mykee has a heart, it may not be geared towards the human race, but at least it's geared towards the responsible keeping and breeding of Snakes:)
Yup
When I purchased two baby royals from a well known breeder for my kids, I was sent one that had a small kink on her tail. It's about half way between her vent and the tip of her tail. It's just a small bump. It's noticeable to me and mine, but to someone who doesn't know these animals, they really don't see it. Actually, I know I've posted pics of her with her tail in the pic, but noone here has even noticed it's there. I didn't call the breeder and tell him, because I wasn't upset. When I noticed it, I also realized that would or should not have any affect on keeping her from being perfectly healthy so it was no issue. Plus she was bought as a pet so I didn't care. Although we did have a bit of a rough start with her eating, she's doing quite well and a very sweet snake. I did tell my son that if he ever decided to get into breeding she should never be bred because of the kink. And if he ever tried to breed her, I'd beat his butt... I don't care if he's 40. :p
Not everyone, nor most everyone, who has snakes, get the breeding bug. There are alot of people who have animals just to have them or because they love those animals and they're pets. Mine are my pets, although I do call them my collection because I seem to collect them through rescues, adoptions, or they're given to me. The ones I've actually purchased I always get females. The only male I will purposely buy will be my retic and that's only because of such a size difference between male and female 'tics, I prefer the smaller of the two with an animal this large. So far I've been lucky and all my rescues/adoptees have been female. I do have one unsexed animal I adopted and I have no desire to sex it. He (it went off feed for a little like males are prone to do when they want to breed so I'm just guessing it's a 'he') is a great pet, no matter his true gender.
KSTAR, that's a nice looking animal, kink aside. IMHO that is a nasty looking kink, mainly because of it's location and it's good of you to check on it often to make sure it's not affecting it's life. I'm also going to tell you that I'll also gladly take it if you ever feel the need to rehome it. I'm a sucker for those that need a little extra TLC. :)
jaleely
04-28-12, 08:50 PM
Aaron I'm probably more sensitive to it right now too, since i've been getting all "into" snakes and stuff.
MoreliAddict
04-28-12, 09:30 PM
I think a few people may have misenterpreted mykee.
I think he meant that all (99%) breeders begin as just snake lovers, keeping pet snakes. NOT that all(99%) snake keepers get the urge to breed them. There's a difference.
Aaron_S
04-28-12, 09:36 PM
So Mykee is the grumpy old coot around here that people just tolerate and sometimes respect....interesting....
Like I said before I'm still learning And I'm glad to be apart of this forum and thank all of you guys and gals that helped me so far with my questions and with my little kink and also to Mykee I took no offense like I said before to him and his statements and I can take some harsh hits with no problem I just don't accept disrespect which he didn't do in ANYWAY and I thank you all for educating me on the kink and I've actually been thinking about him and his health and well being...and I think I might be considering re-homing him with someone here on the forum ( no one in particular at this point) and I want him to go to the most experienced and knowledgable person here that will take him in...it's gonna suck and I'm going to miss him but I actually would feel better that he's with someone who's more experienced then me due to the fact that I'm scared that he might endure something in the future and I won't be experienced enough to help him even though I've been doing it all since I got him so far but after meeting all you great people I would feel ok with getting him a new home with someone who has experience with all of this...
Xanafein
04-28-12, 11:31 PM
So Mykee is the grumpy old coot around here that people just tolerate and sometimes respect....interesting....
you two are my Favorite Grumpy posters, You may come off as complete asses a lot of times, But as far as I can Remember you both Always make an excellent point
jaleely
04-29-12, 12:22 AM
Aaron we tolerate and somewhat respect you too! I just can't get over that beautiful smile you have in your avatar.
KORBIN5895
04-29-12, 05:02 AM
He's great with kids! I hear he takes very good care of you...
Who's my daddy?
So Mykee is the grumpy old coot around here that people just tolerate and sometimes respect....interesting....
You two remind me of Waldorf and Statler.
Aaron_S
04-29-12, 07:14 AM
Oh I wasn't crossing my arms and wanting attention too. I just thought it was funny that is how it seems Mykee is portrayed.
Melissa, I've tried to change that avatar but I can't find a small enough picture of what I want.
alessia55
04-29-12, 08:32 AM
Oh I wasn't crossing my arms and wanting attention too. I just thought it was funny that is how it seems Mykee is portrayed.
Melissa, I've tried to change that avatar but I can't find a small enough picture of what I want.
I can make it smaller for you and send it to you to use as an avatar. Send me the pic via PM. :)
jaleely
04-29-12, 09:38 PM
oooh i wonder what it is!! Do it, send it to alessia! Let's all guess what it is! lol i have no clue and all i'm coming up with is weird stuff
thesnakeden
09-06-12, 07:20 PM
Kinks i would for one like to say we need more people like you in our hobby but i would also like to say dont give him away he will be fine in your hands and if you ever need help we will all be here for you! I can tell you love him very much and i believe he will live a long happy life in your hands i know people are saying to give him away i just hatched out a ball python with a kink in his tale a bad kink and he sheds eats and poops just fine just keep and love your little guy hes a friend for life!;)
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