Littlefoot & Cera (New video & pictures) 2013!

[alessia55]

Time lapse, its playing at 10x normal speed.

oh ok makes sense now, thanks. Still a great video though!

[infernalis]

was experimenting with my video software.

[infernalis]

9qbdn4oWVDQ

[infernalis]

http://www.varanusforums.com/babies/roach1.jpg

http://www.varanusforums.com/babies/roach2.jpg

http://www.varanusforums.com/babies/pipe1.jpg

http://www.varanusforums.com/babies/pipe2.jpg

http://www.varanusforums.com/babies/tong1.jpg

http://www.varanusforums.com/babies/log1.jpg

AQ3pQZQ2LDc

[BarelyBreathing]

Yummy eating time!

[jarich]

they are so freakin cute man. Love it when she is carrying it up out of the burrow, thats about as close to a happy, proud face as I can imagine a monitor having.

[Skits]

I lurk on this thread a lot but realised I've never commented. They are way too cute! :) And I just love their enclosure! They are growing so quickly too!

[infernalis]

I lurk on this thread a lot but realised I've never commented. They are way too cute! :) And I just love their enclosure! They are growing so quickly too!


Yes, and as time goes on, I am starting to realize that 8x4x4 is still a small enclosure for these animals.

I don't care how difficult it may be, or how much it's going to cost me, but these two are going to have a 12x20 within 2 years, even if I have to go get another job to pay for it.

They are only 5 inches long now, and they use every inch of that box up and still look for more.

[Skits]

That would be really amazing to see! Such spoiled little savs :D

[alessia55]

Updated pics please?? :D

[infernalis]

Alessia, The last two "photo" sessions have been video shoots posted here...


http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/varanid/91895-trust-begins-walking-hand-1-a.html

[alessia55]

Alessia, The last two "photo" sessions have been video shoots posted here...


http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/varanid/91895-trust-begins-walking-hand-1-a.html

I saw those... I wanted more :p

[Bradyloach]

Give me more or give me death!!!

[infernalis]

Give me more or give me death!!!


Death it is then...

[jaleely]

ouch! harsh! i don't believe it though. there WILL be more i'm sure of it hehe

[MoreliAddict]

Death it is then...
Posts like this is why we need a thanking system...

[infernalis]

I got pics and video today will post up after I eat.

[alessia55]

I got pics and video today will post up after I eat.

finallyyyyyyy :D

[infernalis]

The video is uploading, but I did get one flash picture.. Littlefoot refused to come out of his little cardboard box.

Holy crap, uploading for 10 minutes and still at zero percent, for less than a minute of video??

http://www.varanus.us/babies/box.jpg

[BarelyBreathing]

Holy cow, Wayne, he's getting big!

[infernalis]

bObhx4PLzXU

[Bradyloach]

Great video wayne! so are you going to give them a couple a week? or how are you going to do this?

[infernalis]

They both have very full tummies, so they will not be fed tomorrow except a few bugs to chase.

Littlefoot has also taken to eating cut up shrimp. But Cera is not interested.

[millertime89]

great video Wayne!

[infernalis]

Today's daily dose......

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/cera.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/face.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/standing.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/lookindown.jpg

[infernalis]

Got some more today....

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/worm.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/hunch.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/piggy.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/slug.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/sticky.jpg

[millertime89]

lol, his little face covered in mud is awesome.
Is littlefoot the one with the high blue markings around his eyes? That's a lot of blue. Very cool.

[marvelfreak]

Cool pictures they are so cute.

[alessia55]

Cera looks ADORABLE in this photo

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/worm.jpg

[infernalis]

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/snout.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/slip.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/shedface.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/gape.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/eyes.jpg

[alessia55]

The cutest savs in the world- look cute even when they're eating other baby animals :D

[infernalis]

More....

http://www.varanusforums.com/bite/ceraboard.jpg

http://www.varanusforums.com/bite/facing.jpg

http://www.varanusforums.com/bite/pose.jpg

http://www.varanusforums.com/bite/tong.jpg

http://www.varanusforums.com/bite/cute.jpg

http://www.varanusforums.com/bite/blur.jpg

[KSTAR]

Your little guys are great! Looks like they have mansion to play in aswell

[infernalis]

I have to review edit the footage, but I do believe I recorded the first ever tripod pose last night...

[reptile65]

Great photos, Wayne! They really seem to have grown and fattened up in the short time you've had them.

[infernalis]

Excuse the quality, I extracted a frame from a video clip.. Tripod time!

http://www.varanus.us/babies/tripod.jpg

[infernalis]

not one comment on the tripod?

[SpOoKy]

just saw this, awesome.
I actually had my guy on his full tail today...no feet at all I couldn't believe it.

don't you love when they do something cool for the first time.
who is that anyway? Cera?

[infernalis]

Yep, Cera is the showoff of the two.

Snapped a few more tripods tonight, will post them soon.

[infernalis]

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/tripod1.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/tripod3.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/tripod4.jpg

[SpOoKy]

NICE!!!!! Little Olympic trainers you got there!

[millertime89]

Awesome progress Cera is making.

[infernalis]

Awesome progress Cera is making.

Now to get littlefoot to do it.

[shaunyboy]

Now to get littlefoot to do it.

i assume them doing the tripod thing,is a good indicator they feel safe and secure ?

as in the wild this posture,leaves there underside vulnerable to attack

so its a good sign that cera's settled then mate ?

is it just the angle the pictures been taken at,or has cera grew a fair bit wayne ?

they're cute wee beasty's

cheers shaun

[infernalis]

They have doubled in size since I got them Shaun.

They do tripod in the wild, usually to get a better look around.

[shaunyboy]

They have doubled in size since I got them Shaun.

They do tripod in the wild, usually to get a better look around.


at what age are they fully grown mate ?

what size do they achieve ?

are males or females larger than each other ?

cheers shaun

[Lankyrob]

I am guessing tho that fat unfit savs wouldnt be able to tripod like that?

[infernalis]

I am guessing tho that fat unfit savs wouldnt be able to tripod like that?

It would be a lot more difficult to do.

[alessia55]

Those shots are awesome!

[Bradyloach]

i love it when cassie tripods :D

[jarich]

Great shots Wayne. Looks like your grass is still doing really well also. Thats awesome.

[infernalis]

I will try and film this today, Cera can jump really high to grab food.

I was trying for some tripod poses, and she just jumps up like a kangaroo now.

[CK SandBoas]

I will try and film this today, Cera can jump really high to grab food.

I was trying for some tripod poses, and she just jumps up like a kangaroo now.


Oh, i so want to see that!!! Cera definitely seems to be developing her personality early, and gaining confidence:D

[shaunyboy]

I will try and film this today, Cera can jump really high to grab food.

I was trying for some tripod poses, and she just jumps up like a kangaroo now.

cera's turning into quite a charecter mate

look forward to video of your now kangaroo monitor:D

cheers shaun

[infernalis]

D5gnHzPQB38

[alessia55]

It looks like one of them is bigger than the other now. Is Cera the larger one? I loved it when they were jumping for the food :p They've grown so much though... so fast... They're going to be monsters in no time. Another question: what are you going to do about them fighting over food (like they did over that worm) when they're adults? :hmm:

[infernalis]

I really do think we got the names backward, The size difference & behaviour difference are all leaning to Littlefoot being female and Cera being male.

As for feeding time, once they are adult, they could pull almost anything in half, however, they will always be fed supervised, if it gets to be a problem, then they will get fed separated.

[Bradyloach]

HHah my niece and nefew are growing great. Hahs making such good progress!!

[Lankyrob]

I really do think we got the names backward, The size difference & behaviour difference are all leaning to Littlefoot being female and Cera being male.

As for feeding time, once they are adult, they could pull almost anything in half, however, they will always be fed supervised, if it gets to be a problem, then they will get fed separated.


Would that mean not releasing "wild" insects into the enclosure for them to hunt?

[infernalis]

Rob - they could seperate any insect in a moment right now.. so I have no worries.

They pull worms in half now too.

[infernalis]

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/happyface.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/turn.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/pink.jpg

[shaunyboy]

in that last pic it looks like it's thinking .....


" crap,he's caught me stealing another pinkie "

great pic's mate

cheers shaun:)

[infernalis]

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/tongue.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/tripod.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/tripod2.jpg

[alessia55]

The second shot is a great photo of the tripod stance... you should be posting some of these to your site! :yes:

[Lankyrob]

The last pic looks like they are getting ready to waltz :)

[infernalis]

The second shot is a great photo of the tripod stance... you should be posting some of these to your site! :yes:


I add the new shots roughly when I have a dozen more than last time.

[infernalis]

more from today..

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/LF1.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/cricket.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/LFpinkie.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/dirtyface.jpg

[alessia55]

Wayne I feel like you live practically glued to that cage :p
Great pics as always... amazing how they grow

[infernalis]

Wayne I feel like you live practically glued to that cage :p
Great pics as always... amazing how they grow

Not really, but I am in there many times a day. Can't think of anywhere else I would rather be.

[GarterPython]

Its funny because they are like 2 times the size of my gecko and they are only babys.

[Bradyloach]

There looking very nice and fat! but most inportantly healthy! :D looking good buddy

[infernalis]

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/dish1.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/smile.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/tongue1.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/ceralee.jpg

[CK SandBoas]

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/dish1.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/smile.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/tongue1.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/ceralee.jpg

That second picture is priceless! "Hey, look, i'm on camera! " :D

[youngster]

They are already getting so big, nice pics as always Wayne.

[mo9e64]

i like that last photo,they're growing fast

[jaleely]

most adorable healthy looking little dinosaurs i've ever seen! They really are looking bright eyed and healthy.

[millertime89]

That second picture is priceless! "Hey, look, i'm on camera! " :D

I was thinking more like "hey, like my dress?"

[jarich]

Love that first one too. Ya know, just chillin in the spa with your arm up. Hey, who let the guy with the camera in?!

[alessia55]

Cera in the water dish is priceless :D :D

[Rogue628]

They're certainly getting big! Love the last pic :D

[infernalis]

The funniest thing happened tonight. We were feeding the little monsters, and I told Dorothy to lay her hand flat as I tempt Cera to walk on her... Uh Huh! (epic fail)

So Dorothy is sitting perfectly still, I lead Cera over to her hand and rather than pounce her dinner, Cera chonked right down hard on Dorothy's hand.

It even drew blood.

Gaining the monitor's trust, now I have to work on getting back the wife trust.

"Hey baby, stick your hand in here"

[infernalis]

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/wetpet.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/ceratongue.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/pandish.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/cera/snout1.jpg

[jarich]

The funniest thing happened tonight. We were feeding the little monsters, and I told Dorothy to lay her hand flat as I tempt Cera to walk on her... Uh Huh! (epic fail)

So Dorothy is sitting perfectly still, I lead Cera over to her hand and rather than pounce her dinner, Cera chonked right down hard on Dorothy's hand.

It even drew blood.

Gaining the monitor's trust, now I have to work on getting back the wife trust.

"Hey baby, stick your hand in here"

Hahahahahaha! Too funny

[infernalis]

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/kids/macrochin.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/kids/cera1.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/kids/chinshot.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/kids/close.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/kids/face.jpg

[shaunyboy]

good pictures mate

that first pictures reminds me of chomper

cheer shaun

[MoreliAddict]

These are some fast growing lizards. Nice shots as usual, Wayne.

[alessia55]

The little monsters are growing up :yes:

[CK SandBoas]

Those little ones are starting to grow up Wayne! They still are adorable, though they do have an appetite for yours and Dorothy's flesh:p

[infernalis]

and amazing appetite for their size.. they eat a lot of food.

[Rogue628]

I can't believe how fast they're growing! I love how they tilt their heads so inquisitively :)

[infernalis]

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/kids/puffed.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/kids/standin.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/kids/tongueshot.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/kids/upupup.jpg

http://www.savannahmonitor.co/kids/podshot.jpg

[shaunyboy]

as always great pictures Wayne

i'm really enjoying this thread,especially all the updated pictures as they grow and become more secure

it gives all of us without the.....

time,patience,the available room,finances,etc,etc...

the chance to see these,very interesting,great looking creatures,with so much charactaur in their facial expressions,is pretty amazing

thanks,for taking the time to share your experiences,in raising these wee guy's

cheers shaun

[simpleyork]

how big are they now? total length guess?

Love the pics

[infernalis]

7 or so inches.

[infernalis]

http://www.varanid.us/523/LF.jpg

http://www.varanid.us/523/LF1.jpg

http://www.varanid.us/523/LF3.jpg

http://www.varanid.us/523/look.jpg

http://www.varanid.us/523/topside.jpg

http://www.varanid.us/523/wet.jpg

[infernalis]

lg5A4qWY5pY

[guidofatherof5]

Very nice Wayne. Baby steps.;)

[alessia55]

oh my gosh, they're so big already! It's really great how well they're doing with you.

[infernalis]

almost 6000 hits!

FuNyOSILCC8

[infernalis]

http://www.varanid.us/523/1.jpg

http://www.varanid.us/523/2.jpg

http://www.varanid.us/523/3.jpg

http://www.varanid.us/523/4.jpg

[Gungirl]

They are looking good Wayne. Do you see a lot of difference in the attitude of keeping 2 together rather than when you raised Chomper alone? Are they more daring or happy in pairs I guess is what I am asking. ( Just wondering your opinion)

[infernalis]

They are looking good Wayne. Do you see a lot of difference in the attitude of keeping 2 together rather than when you raised Chomper alone? Are they more daring or happy in pairs I guess is what I am asking. ( Just wondering your opinion)

The overall "mood" has changed from hanging out together to established territory.

Cera has claimed the larger wooden ramp and has dug (and is currently digging) tunnels under it.

Littlefoot has claimed the basking ramp and has tunnels under it.

I rarely see Littlefoot on Cera's end of the cage anymore, however Cera is bigger and is very bold, I see Cera down on Littlefoot's end frequently.

I have to take great care when feeding them, or Cera will take the food away from Littlefoot.

[Gungirl]

That is something.. Hopefully as they get bigger they will bond more together so that there is no need for another cage. It must be amazing to watch them interact day to day.

[infernalis]

IVeY_nx80uc

[Little Wise Owl]

Cute little voracious monsters <3

[varanus_mad]

These guys are awesome wayne some of the best kept savs ive seen in recent years

everything from there set up to behaviour points to some very well cared for savs

[infernalis]

So tonight I tried something (copied from MDF) and tied a string to my hemostats so I could swing the food around.

No big surprise that Cera would run and jump in the air without much effort on my part, and also as expected, Littlefoot showed a bit less enthusiasm.

Judging by overall behaviour, The little one is still afraid to be out in the open and would rather not risk exposure of pursuing the rapidly moving food in favor of ambushing from a hiding spot.

[infernalis]

http://www.varanid.us/June/LFcool.jpg

http://www.varanid.us/June/LFfood.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

They are looking good Wayne.

[alessia55]

Great photos as always... I never get bored of these two

[infernalis]

I only wish I had my camera with me....

Last night I went in to feed the lizards and they were nowhere to be seen in the cage.

So I am sitting in front of their cage with food and suddenly I notice the dirt heaving up in the middle of the cage. (Think "Tremors" - the movie) and the dirt is moving, it mounds up slightly when I see the tip of a snout sticking out.. then Cera smelled the food and the ground erupted as a monitor lizard popped out leaving a sink hole in the middle of the cage.

A few moments later, the same exact spot moves some more, and out pops Littlefoot.

I can only assume they were both in the tunnel and extremely close to each other at the time.

[KORBIN5895]

I feel I have missed so much!

[infernalis]

http://www.varanid.us/july/bask.jpg

http://www.varanid.us/july/face.jpg

http://www.varanid.us/july/profile.jpg

http://www.varanid.us/july/rock.jpg

http://www.varanid.us/july/measure.jpg

http://www.varanid.us/july/nose.jpg

[crocdoc]

Gee, they're growing! Looking good, too.

[infernalis]

Gee, they're growing! Looking good, too.

Thanks, they suck down some serious chow for their size. If I didn't breed my own food, I would go broke keeping them fed.

[Lankyrob]

Looking fantastic Wayne, you are obviously doing something right!! :)

[infernalis]

Littlefoot just got his first encounter outside the enclosure today, he jumped off the sill to the floor, then bit me when I put him back...

http://www.varanid.us/july/faceA.jpg

Still climbing walls no problem...

http://www.varanid.us/july/wall.jpg

Hey, what's out there??

http://www.varanid.us/july/sill.jpg

[jaleely]

OH my gosh, they are so BIG all of a sudden! Well i haven't looked for a while either : )
You are doing such an amazing job! they are soo cute! wow, they just look amazing!

You seriously have a LOT of cuteness here *lol*

[alessia55]

They grow way too fast... I remember when they were TINY on that wooden ramp/basking plank... Geez... :eek:

[infernalis]

Growing at about an inch a week.

Guess who's getting brave?

cjt3lQfHVCM

[moshirimon]

that was crazy lol. did the one get any damage on his nose?

also do you plan on housing them together as adults as well?

[infernalis]

that was crazy lol. did the one get any damage on his nose?

also do you plan on housing them together as adults as well?

No injuries, and if it turns to bloodshed, I will split them up.

I am being told that this is normal behaviour, they are still trying to establish who the alpha is.

[alessia55]

That video was pretty awesome. LF is smaller than Cera, or is it just the camera angle?

[Freebody]

WOW wayne they are getting big Fast! seems like yesterday they were finger sized. they look real healthy too. and i like the fish in the water bowl, thats a nice touch :)

[infernalis]

That video was pretty awesome. LF is smaller than Cera, or is it just the camera angle?

As difficult as it's going to be, the names were given in reverse.

The males are the larger of the species, so Littlefoot is the bigger one, and Cera is the smaller one.

This is going to be tough, 3 months of having the names backward.

[jaleely]

I remember when you suspected the names were backwards *lol* little brats! THey are so cute. A greedy animal is a healthy animal in my opinion *lol*

[alessia55]

As difficult as it's going to be, the names were given in reverse.

The males are the larger of the species, so Littlefoot is the bigger one, and Cera is the smaller one.

This is going to be tough, 3 months of having the names backward.

Just keep the names the way they were from the start... gender normative names don't matter in the animal world ;) I'll probably still call the bigger one Cera, and the smaller one LF, out of habit...even if you do change them, lol :p

[infernalis]

I actually got to pick up the larger one about a dozen times for short intervals just now.

I was feeding them and Cera was a little slower getting it down, Littlefoot inhaled his and started heading over to the other end of the cage, so to prevent fighting I reached in and picked him up, no bites, no hiss, just a little squirming.

woo hoo, so close... yet so far to go.

[DragonsEye]

Savs are looking great, Wayne! Man, they are growing fast!

I moved the heater to the front and the window stopped fogging up.


I wonder (since I know you'd prefer having the heat back where it was so you would not have to see it) if having some vents above and/or below the window would take care the fogging problem?

[infernalis]

Savs are looking great, Wayne! Man, they are growing fast!



I wonder (since I know you'd prefer having the heat back where it was so you would not have to see it) if having some vents above and/or below the window would take care the fogging problem?

Have not had any fogging in a while. It was too humid in there.

Heck, with the weather we have been getting lately, I had to shut off some of the lights in there during the day to help keep the temps inside the cage within acceptable range.

I just now pointed my temp gun at the window sill and got a reading of 120 (F)

Days like this I wish they were a little bigger so I could take them outside.

[jarich]

Wow, they are getting so big. Loved the latest video of them fighting over the pinky. Do they regularly eat the fish in the water bowl or was that a first attempt?

[infernalis]

Wow, they are getting so big. Loved the latest video of them fighting over the pinky. Do they regularly eat the fish in the water bowl or was that a first attempt?


Littlefoot will take them out of the water, Cera will only take them off tongs.

It works out OK, once the fish kick the bucket I just use the tongs to give them to Cera.

[infernalis]

jcRQR00nn7Q

[infernalis]

N03_B8K-Jq4

[DiscoPat]

I liked how you were able to show your hand to show you had no food in it and it worked well. It also seems like you have come a long way from them not letting you touch or pick them up.

[infernalis]

I liked how you were able to show your hand to show you had no food in it and it worked well. It also seems like you have come a long way from them not letting you touch or pick them up.

Thanks, yeah they have come a long way quickly.

Got some unusual shots today.. They have a whole network of tunnels under the surface.. pretty cool.

This hole on the surface is quite small, I set the cam on macro and shined a flashlight down the hole to get these.

http://www.varanid.us/LF/hole.jpg


http://www.varanid.us/LF/hole1.jpg

The tunnels connect and I can often hear them hissing down under the surface.

Basking.... Littlefoot is sprawled out flat, this is common to maximize surface area to absorb radiant heat from above.

http://www.varanid.us/LF/bask.jpg

http://www.varanid.us/LF/wallfoot.jpg

http://www.varanid.us/LF/tongue.jpg

In a really bad mood.....

http://www.varanid.us/LF/throat.jpg

[jarich]

Love that last picture, all puffed up. Definitely not a pleased lizard!

Thanks for the minnow video, that's really cool. Are those from your land?

[alessia55]

I do not get tired of these updates... Love love love them :yes:

[infernalis]

Love that last picture, all puffed up. Definitely not a pleased lizard!

Thanks for the minnow video, that's really cool. Are those from your land?

Yes, the drought is drying up the creek, the minnows and crayfish are doomed anyway, there are places where there is no water in the creek at all.

[guidofatherof5]

Loved it all Wayne. The kids are really growing and looking good.

[varanus_mad]

Looking good wayne.

[infernalis]

Thanks everyone...... More??

http://www.varanid.us/july/pipe2.jpg

http://www.varanid.us/july/chin.jpg

http://www.varanid.us/july/peekaboo.jpg

http://www.varanid.us/july/pipe1.jpg

[CK SandBoas]

I absolutely love the third pic, Wayne!! :D

[MoreliAddict]

Great set of pics today, Wayne. http://www.lilwaynehq.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

[varanus_mad]

Corking monitors matey.

[infernalis]

About half way in, Littlefoot runs up the wall..

s93WoSXZYDQ

[infernalis]

http://www.varanid.us/july/silly.jpg

http://www.varanid.us/july/gazing.jpg

http://www.varanid.us/july/mudface.jpg

[snake man12]

Omg they are so cute. To bad I don't have the room

[infernalis]

pKOuNCBn-WA

[alessia55]

My colleagues at work were wondering what I was watching on my phone so I showed them your video. They were totally fascinated!! :D

[Gungirl]

That cage looks so small now.... They are getting big!

[varanus_mad]

Good gracious mate poster girl and boy for bosc keepers everywhere

nice work

[LISA127]

OMG, I don't think I've ever seen pics so cute!!!

[infernalis]

That cage looks so small now.... They are getting big!

Yes it does... I am planning on making it bigger.

[Lankyrob]

What size are you reckoning for two adults to share Wayne? Still planning my eventual Sav room and am interet to use your experience to make sure i get it right :)

[Pirarucu]

I just realized the complete lack of plant life in that cage... LOL Plants don't survive long in a monitor cage.

[infernalis]

Nope.. they killed off the grass twice now.

[varanus_mad]

Nope.. they killed off the grass twice now.


I cant say im suprised...

shrubs may work... you have to put big *** slates over the top and place them in a ceramic plant pot... so they cant dig em up...

Doable specially if your converting the basement for them.

[infernalis]

Doable specially if your converting the basement for them.

That was in my plans, now I think I would rather sell the house with a two acre lawn, and keep the other 38 acres, build again back in the woods with a proper heated Varanus Barn... Then I would love nothing more than to put in a couple paddock type enclosures like they have in zoos.

Imagine Bosc monitors in a pen like London Zoo keeps their Komodos in.

[varanus_mad]

That was in my plans, now I think I would rather sell the house with a two acre lawn, and keep the other 38 acres, build again back in the woods with a proper heated Varanus Barn... Then I would love nothing more than to put in a couple paddock type enclosures like they have in zoos.

Imagine Bosc monitors in a pen like London Zoo keeps their Komodos in.


Would be awesome there fantastic.

[infernalis]

Living near the main roadway gets on my nerves, and people staring when I am outside with my reptiles needs to stop.

The location we have in mind would give us a 1600 foot driveway, and a big hedge of maple and oak between us and the neighbourhood.

[varanus_mad]

Living near the main roadway gets on my nerves, and people staring when I am outside with my reptiles needs to stop.

The location we have in mind would give us a 1600 foot driveway, and a big hedge of maple and oak between us and the neighbourhood.


we moved to one of our cities recently from the countryside...

Im getting net curtains to stop people doing just that... being nosy :pissedoff:

Sounds lovely mate Built your own place on it or... house already there?

[infernalis]

we moved to one of our cities recently from the countryside...

Im getting net curtains to stop people doing just that... being nosy :pissedoff:

Sounds lovely mate Built your own place on it or... house already there?


Going to use the money from selling this house to put up another, The kids are almost all grown up, so we will need less bedrooms, The taxation here is based on "living space" so I get hosed $4,000 a year in taxes.

If we put in a smaller dwelling and a barn, then we only get taxed on "living space" and not the barn.

I should be able to cut my property tax in half, yet have more room for the reptiles.

Plan it right, and I can heat the slab under the barn with hot water from a wood boiler..

If I build a kennel type pen off the side of the barn, I can just open a door and let the monitors out for some natural sunshine during the summer, without the stress of handling them or putting on a harness.

[varanus_mad]

Going to use the money from selling this house to put up another, The kids are almost all grown up, so we will need less bedrooms, The taxation here is based on "living space" so I get hosed $4,000 a year in taxes.

If we put in a smaller dwelling and a barn, then we only get taxed on "living space" and not the barn.

I should be able to cut my property tax in half, yet have more room for the reptiles.

Plan it right, and I can heat the slab under the barn with hot water from a wood boiler..

If I build a kennel type pen off the side of the barn, I can just open a door and let the monitors out for some natural sunshine during the summer, without the stress of handling them or putting on a harness.

That sounds fantastic we get taxed a gross based on our House price.

The boiler idea is fantastic i believe somebody else did something similar a few years back.

[infernalis]

That sounds fantastic we get taxed a gross based on our House price.

The boiler idea is fantastic i believe somebody else did something similar a few years back.

Home value plays a role here too.

I get taxed for living space, acreage and home value.

Somehow though, they manage to "appraise" my house at $50K more than it cost to build it in 1995??

Screw the taxpayer... The Sheriff of Nottingam is alive and well.

***************************

Back to my Monitors, I just now caught them lounging together.

Seems they do other things besides fight.:D

Of course, by the time I fetched the camera, they had run off to hide.

[varanus_mad]

Home value plays a role here too.

I get taxed for living space, acreage and home value.

Somehow though, they manage to "appraise" my house at $50K more than it cost to build it in 1995??

Screw the taxpayer... The Sheriff of Nottingam is alive and well.

***************************

Back to my Monitors, I just now caught them lounging together.

Seems they do other things besides fight.:D

Of course, by the time I fetched the camera, they had run off to hide.

Screw you top bottom and sideways... thats tax's for you.

I do like keeping monitors in groups adds an extra dynamic to the whole keeping experience your two are the first ive had proper documentation of from really young.... looking at the scrapes and the behaviour your describing really interesting...

in fact bar your two every other pair i know of where introduced as adults...

Not well kept adults at that... so there reactions are hardly natural.

[infernalis]

Progress report - Behaviour observations

Lately, I have been seeing the two of them sharing the same burrow, lounging side by side and basically doing just fine, The hostility seems to only surface when food is introduced.

Their feeding response is so intense that they both want to inhale the most groceries.

Anymore, I have to hold Littlefoot back in order to make sure Cera gets equal food, otherwise he will charge at her share and attempt to take it from her.

I have been taping candid footage and will edit the interesting bits out and compile them for a youtube vid when I can. I have 64 gigabytes of tripod shot with no one in the room, got some interesting moments on there.

[Gungirl]

Looking forward to seeing the updated footage.. You my sir are doing good work. I am happy to be learning so much about something I never thought would really interest me.

[infernalis]

Giant step in the trust department, Littlefoot came out and walked right onto my leg.

http://www.varanid.us/LF/leg1.jpg

http://www.varanid.us/LF/leg2.jpg

http://www.varanid.us/LF/leg3.jpg

The two of them just hanging out.. Littlefoot is asleep as Cera watches.

http://www.varanid.us/LF/couple.jpg

[Pirarucu]

Looking good! I see you have added more grass. LOL.

[Pirarucu]

We need more videos. :)

[infernalis]

coming up, just need to edit.

[infernalis]

Looking good! I see you have added more grass. LOL.

Hacked out some more sod from the lawn.

The roots help keep the burrows from caving in.

[infernalis]

ChoghvYqSE4

[Pirarucu]

Where is the like button?

[simpleyork]

sweet man, My two are growing like little weeds as well. I'll have to get some post up soon

[jarich]

Love how she misses the worm but then just bites him on the face!

[infernalis]

Love how she misses the worm but then just bites him on the face!

Look close, she nearly got my hand again, she jumps for the wrong end of the tongs, that's how she missed the worm.

[varanus_mad]

Look close, she nearly got my hand again, she jumps for the wrong end of the tongs, that's how she missed the worm.


Love it mate.


I got the wrong end of a mertens by it doing just like that.

[infernalis]

How old was the Mertens?

That would be a nasty bite if it was an adult.

[varanus_mad]

How old was the Mertens?

That would be a nasty bite if it was an adult.


Adult mate.

But no oddly enough grabbed me thumb all of it then let go as fast as it happned.

The tongs were 3' with a chick on the end...

Most hilarious bite ive ever experienced.

Ive had worse of beardies.

[infernalis]

Lucky you....

[varanus_mad]

Lucky you....


Very lucky with my bites so far.

Worst was a nile... and she was 2' long at the time so as you can imagine Not a lot of damage there either.

Ive come off worst most of the time from claw marks.

[moshirimon]

really cool how you provide such a natural enclosure for the monitors, and especially how you house more than one together. I'm pretty sure these are solitary animals in the wild, but yours seem to be doing fine. I find it really cool how they give eachother little nips here and there, has there ever been any serious physical altercations between them?

[infernalis]

really cool how you provide such a natural enclosure for the monitors, and especially how you house more than one together. I'm pretty sure these are solitary animals in the wild, but yours seem to be doing fine. I find it really cool how they give eachother little nips here and there, has there ever been any serious physical altercations between them?

No they don't get into nasty fights.

It's dominance displays and food altercations only.

[infernalis]

http://www.varanid.us/LF/whet.jpg

http://www.varanid.us/LF/peep.jpg

http://www.varanid.us/LF/stare.jpg

By the looks of the water dish, you would think we never clean it. Not true, 5 minutes after I change it, they mess it up again.

http://www.varanid.us/LF/meerkat.jpg

[Pirarucu]

Man they're looking just fantastic. They're looking like they're going to be giants, based on how fast they've been growing so far.. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they hit five feet by the time they're done.

[varanus_mad]

Man they're looking just fantastic. They're looking like they're going to be giants, based on how fast they've been growing so far.. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they hit five feet by the time they're done.


I am yet to see a bosc hit 4.5' let alone 5'

4' is a big bosc

[infernalis]

I am yet to see a bosc hit 4.5' let alone 5'

4' is a big bosc


Agreed.. Chomper was just about 1 meter (yard) long.

Littlefoot will probably only be a little bit bigger than he was.

The growth spurt has slowed a little recently.

[varanus_mad]

Agreed.. Chomper was just about 1 meter (yard) long.

Littlefoot will probably only be a little bit bigger than he was.

The growth spurt has slowed a little recently.

Boscy was 32"

the capes 3' now she ain slowed down yet but they gey bigger n boscs.

[MoreliAddict]

^ that fourth pic (standing) is awesome.

[guidofatherof5]

Great shots Wayne.

[infernalis]

^ that fourth pic (standing) is awesome.


I swear that sometimes he thinks he's a meerkat....:)

[Pirarucu]

The growth spurt has slowed a little recently.Ah okay, I'm just going by the pictures so you probably have a better idea of their growth rate.

[varanus_mad]

I swear that sometimes he thinks he's a meerkat....:)

Out of interest wayne your guys put on more fat round the tail base?

[infernalis]

Out of interest wayne your guys put on more fat round the tail base?

The tail base seems rather solid (muscular) when I grasp it.

Not sure, does it seem mis-proportioned?

[varanus_mad]

The tail base seems rather solid (muscular) when I grasp it.

Not sure, does it seem mis-proportioned?

I was asking matey because as they get bigger there spurts become fewer but bigger...

So they build up a fat reserve then use it in there next growth spurt.

Thats what ive always seen with my varanids.

[infernalis]

Ah, OK.. got it now.

I will pay closer attention.

All I have noticed is that recently they have stabilized somewhat as far as gaining length.

[varanus_mad]

Ah, OK.. got it now.

I will pay closer attention.

All I have noticed is that recently they have stabilized somewhat as far as gaining length.

Long skinny to start with then the length slows down n star putting on bulk

[infernalis]

when I see bulk, I am slowing down on the chow, I don't want bulbous lizards. :)

[varanus_mad]

when I see bulk, I am slowing down on the chow, I don't want bulbous lizards. :)

Nope deffinetly not fat lizards die quicker and struggle like stink to breed.

When i say bulk i mean muscle mass not fat, lean mean muscular machines thats how i like my monitors....

[infernalis]

Nope deffinetly not fat lizards die quicker and struggle like stink to breed.

When i say bulk i mean muscle mass not fat, lean mean muscular machines thats how i like my monitors....

Ah, yes.. Popeye arms and the physique of a champion swimmer.

[varanus_mad]

Ah, yes.. Popeye arms and the physique of a champion swimmer.

As nature intended LOL

Sadly though i look like this:
http://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp148/typhus4/P1040263.jpg

LOL

[infernalis]

Lean and mean..

5tOQtCI80_U

[varanus_mad]

Honestly mate... your guys are just unbelievable... Kudos...

[infernalis]

Did you see that unbelievable jump about half way through??

[varanus_mad]

Did you see that unbelievable jump about half way through??


Yup thats the unbelievable bit...

[infernalis]

Is it really this damn rare to see such vibrant animals??

It seems like everyone has this picture in their minds of sluggish waddling lazy lizards.

These two are anything but.

[varanus_mad]

Is it really this damn rare to see such vibrant animals??

It seems like everyone has this picture in their minds of sluggish waddling lazy lizards.

These two are anything but.


Its that rare to see boscs acting like other monitors.

Thats what it is mate.

[infernalis]

Its that rare to see boscs acting like other monitors.

Thats what it is mate.


So the short answer is yes.


amazing what a little heat and room to move around will do.:cool:

[varanus_mad]

So the short answer is yes.


amazing what a little heat and room to move around will do.:cool:

pretty much mate.

Its not really that hard is it.

Lots of heat, humidity and a deep substrate.

Sadly the easier ways... cheaper... N hey savs are cheap n disposable...

[infernalis]

pretty much mate.

Its not really that hard is it.

Lots of heat, humidity and a deep substrate.

Sadly the easier ways... cheaper... N hey savs are cheap n disposable...

That's what sad, they sell them cheap enough that people buy first, think later (if at all)

There is a poster on another forum, said once "we miss our last sav so we got another" and showed off pics of #2.. it is FAT, it's slow and the keeper "trims it's toenails"

They learned nothing first go round, and here they are torturing a second lizard.

[infernalis]

So here is an interesting observation. Two days ago I cleared the openings to the "pipe tunnel" and within about 2 hours time, both ends are completely backfilled again.

The red line illustrates where the burrows that the monitors dug are, and the circle represents the sizable chamber they have hollowed out down there. Light finger taps on the surface indicate a large hollow area right there. (plus I can hear them moving around down below)

The only reason I can think of why they keep back-filling that pipe, it must be affecting the humidity inside the burrow where they dug.

http://www.varanid.us/LF/holes.jpg

[varanus_mad]

So here is an interesting observation. Two days ago I cleared the openings to the "pipe tunnel" and within about 2 hours time, both ends are completely backfilled again.

The red line illustrates where the burrows that the monitors dug are, and the circle represents the sizable chamber they have hollowed out down there. Light finger taps on the surface indicate a large hollow area right there. (plus I can hear them moving around down below)

The only reason I can think of why they keep back-filling that pipe, it must be affecting the humidity inside the burrow where they dug.



Well done wayne youve hit the nail on the head there lad.

Gouldi/favirafus do this both in captivity and in the wild.

Smarter than us at being monitors thats for sure.

[Lankyrob]

It certainly seems that if you give them the tools they will maintain their own husbandry - love seeing this thread in the updated threads list :)

[Pirarucu]

Very interesting, amazing the observations you get when you keep monitors properly..

[infernalis]

It certainly seems that if you give them the tools they will maintain their own husbandry:)


I like that statement Rob...

[infernalis]

I killed a tree today to get this fantastic log. The bend in it will make a nice spot for perching.. I cut the top part at an angle to make it easier to run bolts through it, Don't want to take any chance that it may fall down.

http://www.varanid.us/enclosures/log.jpg

[Pirarucu]

That is sweet!

[infernalis]

Installed....

http://www.varanid.us/LF/limb1.jpg

Bolted to the wall solid....

http://www.varanid.us/LF/limb3.jpg

Littlefoot checking it out.

http://www.varanid.us/LF/limb2.jpg

http://www.varanid.us/LF/limb4.jpg

[MoreliAddict]

Looks awesome, Wayne. Will they outgrow it or be able to bask up there for life?

[infernalis]

It's solid, I could sit on it.

So it's there for the long haul.

[MoreliAddict]

Nice, well done.

Can't help but picture a Coastal Carpet python chillin on there. :)

[infernalis]

here is the other half of the tree I got that from, it still has a strange bend to it's limbs.

http://www.varanid.us/enclosures/trees.jpg

This has a lot of potential, like a free standing tripod log...

http://www.varanid.us/enclosures/tree.jpg

[Pirarucu]

That log looks awesome in there! Get more! LOL

Curious, have you ever measured how deep in the soil their burrows go? Also, it occurred to me the other day that collapsing their burrows every month or two could provide some mental stimulation and exercise, what do you think? Would it be beneficial or just stressful?

[snake man12]

Awesome, did you treat it?

[infernalis]

Awesome, did you treat it?


Heck no... That's a bio active enclosure. all sorts organisms, bugs and bacteria live in there, they break down the poop, enrich the soil and create nitrogen content for the dirt.

I just seeded a bunch of it with "high traffic" grass intended for walkways. Maybe it will work out, maybe it won't.

Their burrows are complex, I have not messed with them. The two of them will go under the basking platform and vanish. The hole is stashed away neatly under the ramp, so I don't disturb it.

I have been adding more soil, and I put a wide patch of established sod over the top of the main chamber, since the roots are all tightly woven together, it reinforces the top of the chamber, and as I water the grass, a lot of humidity is formed down there.

another observation, they don't poop in their water. They go in the moss, and I watched a fresh pile, in 3 days time even the urates are gone.

[snake man12]

Those are some lucky monitors, what size enclosure do you have them in it must be pretty big t6o support it's own ecosystem?

Also what is the difference between bosc monitors and savs?

[Pirarucu]

Ah, sounds great. We need more logs and more videos!
Those are some lucky monitors, what size enclosure do you have them in it must be pretty big t6o support it's own ecosystem?

Also what is the difference between bosc monitors and savs?Just the name.. They are the same species, Varanus exanthematicus.

[snake man12]

Yeah I was just wondering as I have heard the term being thrown around a lot. lol

[infernalis]

Those are some lucky monitors, what size enclosure do you have them in it must be pretty big t6o support it's own ecosystem?

Also what is the difference between bosc monitors and savs?

Bosc monitor is a Savannah Monitor, and the African trappers call them BOK. (their version of Bosc)


The generic name Varanus is derived from the Arabic waral, which translates as "monitor" in English. The specific name exanthematicus is derived from two Greek words: Exanthema meaning 'eruption' and mata meaning 'idle'. French botanist and zoologist Louis Augustin Guillaume Bosc originally described this lizard as Lacerta exanthematicus in reference to the large oval scales on the back of the neck. the species is also known as Bosc's Monitor, since a French Scientist named Louis Bosc first described the species

[snake man12]

Ahh now I understand. thanks for clearing that up.

[rmfsnakes32]

They are very cute

[infernalis]

http://www.varanid.us/LF/intree.jpg

http://www.varanid.us/LF/uptree.jpg

http://www.varanid.us/LF/downtree.jpg

[Pirarucu]

They are looking positively monstrous. About how long are they as of now?

[MoreliAddict]

They are looking positively monstrous. About how long are they as of now?
^This! These two grew up in a hurry, Wayne. Did Chomper grow that fast?

[infernalis]

no - Chomper did not grow this fast.

[snake man12]

R.I.P chomper:sad:

[varanus_mad]

no - Chomper did not grow this fast.


neither did boscy 18" at a year old....

[jarich]

Love that one of his tail wrapped around the tree.

[infernalis]

so I found that hiding night crawlers in the hollow spot proves interesting.

The hollow is just big enough to hide a worm or a fuzzy mouse inside it.

http://www.varanid.us/LF/knot.jpg

http://www.varanid.us/LF/view.jpg

http://www.varanid.us/LF/high.jpg

[jaleely]

Was just looking back through some old stuff...i can't believe how small they were! SOoo tiny! Little big dinasaours!!!
I'm happy to live vicariously through you in this *lol*
Some day, when i get my own house.

[varanus_mad]

so I found that hiding night crawlers in the hollow spot proves interesting.

The hollow is just big enough to hide a worm or a fuzzy mouse inside it.

http://www.varanid.us/LF/knot.jpg

http://www.varanid.us/LF/view.jpg

http://www.varanid.us/LF/high.jpg


Drill a hole big enough for them to get an arm into... stick a pinky in it see what happens...

[infernalis]

Drill a hole big enough for them to get an arm into... stick a pinky in it see what happens...

I saw that video too.. The black tree Monitor reaching into the log.

[varanus_mad]

I saw that video too.. The black tree Monitor reaching into the log.


Good enrichment for em and a behaviour ive never seen in boscs...

[infernalis]

They (Littlefoot & Cera) are already displaying some behaviours that are not typical.

But then again, I don't keep mine "typical".....

[varanus_mad]

They (Littlefoot & Cera) are already displaying some behaviours that are not typical.

But then again, I don't keep mine "typical".....


Keep em right though... doing em the justice the animals deserve...

[Pirarucu]

Speaking of enrichment, apart from problems to solve like pinkies in a hole, I thought of another method to provide enrichment. Just stick in new stuff, particularly things with a scent. For instance, pieces of fruit. Just stuff that can't hurt them if they decide it looks tasty. Or you could hook a speaker up on the wall and play different sounds on it.. Quiet enough that they could only hear it when they got close to the speaker of course, so if they disliked it, they would be able to avoid it. Just some thoughts I had.

[infernalis]

Speaking of enrichment, apart from problems to solve like pinkies in a hole, I thought of another method to provide enrichment. Just stick in new stuff, particularly things with a scent. For instance, pieces of fruit. Just stuff that can't hurt them if they decide it looks tasty. Or you could hook a speaker up on the wall and play different sounds on it.. Quiet enough that they could only hear it when they got close to the speaker of course, so if they disliked it, they would be able to avoid it. Just some thoughts I had.


There is a Monitor in the UK that has his very own TV set.

[Lankyrob]

There is a Monitor in the UK that has his very own TV set.

Oh pease dont spread that around, as a country we are embarassed enough about it without everyone knowing :)