Brazilian Rainbow advice...

[DeesBalls]

okay, so my BRB is still acting "defensive/agressive" not too sure what one it is.. ever since i moved back in June, she has been really pissy ...

at first i thought she was hungery, seemed to work, but now its back to the same ol' stuff.

should i handle her any ways, and take the bites, or will that stress her out more?!

i feed her a med. rat when i feed, about 14 days... leaves a HUGE lump, so i dont think it is hungery, or when she poops, is it okay to feed again, i dont want to over feed...

any help would be awesome, and i even sent Snakesitter some PM's about it a few months ago, the issue seems to just keep coming back


temp is around 85-88 warm end, and around 79 cool end, low humidity, BUT she has a pool for humidity, unless i should up the humidity too?

any help would be great, thanks!!!!

[Strutter769]

I think you should up the humidity, but I don't see how that'd help temperament. As for the biting, I've always read to not let the bites deter you from handling so. Leaving her alone after a few strikes lets her win, and she knows thar's if she wants to be left alone, she know that'll work.

I'm interested to learn what the others with far more experience say. They no doubt will be around.

Good luck!

[marvelfreak]

You could mist once a day to help keep humidity up. As for handling if she bite don't put her down. Hold her for at least another 10 minutes. Don't reinforce the bad behavior. If you put her right down when she bites she do it every time to get you to leave her alone. You really want to try and get her behavior under control before she gets bigger. Also start handling 2 to 3 times a week. This will help her get use to handling.

^ I was typing when you posted.

[Rainbowsrus]

temp is around 85-88 warm end, and around 79 cool end, low humidity, BUT she has a pool for humidity, unless i should up the humidity too?


Not sure if it will help your problem but IMO the temps are too high and of course she needs higher humidity. My thermostat is set at 82 for my adults and they do just fine. I am using RHP's and they can perch on the rium of the water bowl to get closer / warmer when they want.

Is she shedding in full sheds or tatters? Tatters indicates too low of a humidity. Most common mistake there is thinking they need fresh air and over-ventilating the enclosure.

[Snakesitter]

I agree, temps are too high and humidity too low. For temps, I use a range of 82 on the high end to 72 on the low end. For humidity, do you have a moist moss hide and large water bowl for her? (BTW, when we last spoke back in November, you'd lowered her high end temp from 91 to 83 and raised the humidity, and everything seemed better...what happened my friend?)

As for her behavior, yes, take the nip. You need to teach her that you will not be deterred from picking her up by a pissy attitude. With regular calm handling, her attitude should improve...or at least she'll learn to put up with you. ;-)

[exwizard]

An easy way I've found for upping humidity is simply to put the water dish directly over the heat source. What type of enclosure do you have her in?

As far as biting is concerned, frequent handling and no reaction to a strike are keys to overcoming this.

[DeesBalls]

I'm on my phone, so it will be short... New cage so my temps are a little off, humidity, I used that pool for her, bit getting rid of it and getting a big water dish and placing it under the che... Im getting a good thermostat to help with temps.... And... Getting some more stuff to put in her cage too....



I may give this cage to my rtb, and build a new one for brb.... Not so high...

[DeesBalls]

I agree, temps are too high and humidity too low. For temps, I use a range of 82 on the high end to 72 on the low end. For humidity, do you have a moist moss hide and large water bowl for her? (BTW, when we last spoke back in November, you'd lowered her high end temp from 91 to 83 and raised the humidity, and everything seemed better...what happened my friend?)

As for her behavior, yes, take the nip. You need to teach her that you will not be deterred from picking her up by a pissy attitude. With regular calm handling, her attitude should improve...or at least she'll learn to put up with you. ;-)

right now, it is 83... i cant NOT keep humidity up because of the huge cage... what size cages do you use for your adults?? she is in a 4x2x2 and i feed it is waaaayyy to big... humidity doesnt hold at all :( BUT i am making her a humidity box to help with that...

right now she is burried underneath the cypress and it is 83 degrees..

[Rainbowsrus]

right now, it is 83... i cant NOT keep humidity up because of the huge cage... what size cages do you use for your adults?? she is in a 4x2x2 and i feed it is waaaayyy to big... humidity doesnt hold at all :( BUT i am making her a humidity box to help with that...

right now she is burried underneath the cypress and it is 83 degrees..

Buried under the substrate is normal. What temp is it under the cypress where she is?

The cage is way larger than it needs to be but you should still be able to maintain humidity. Three points on humidity...

Evaporation - how the moisture gets into the air in the first place. you will need a very large surface area water bowl(s). In my adult cage less than half that size (24x24x18) my water bowls are about a foot across.

Dissipation - Once airborne, the water molecules will repel each other and spread out as much as possible INCLUDING leaving the enclosure. Screens and other ventilation will not allow the humidity to build up sufficiently. For example, in my Boaphile 421T's (4' x 2' x 1' divided into two sections) I have ZERO vents. Only the small gaps around the drop down doors.

Condensation - once the air becomes overloaded with water molecules they will condense on cool surfaces - the front door. When you see condensation, you know you have decent humidity.


A damp moss hide box will help in two ways. First it provides a nice damp, higher humidity place to hang out. Second, it provides even more evaporation surfaces to get the water into the air.

Misting can also help but IMO is an artificial way to maintain humidity that is reliant on you remembering to mist. I prefer to get my cages working for me so I don't need to do more than clean and feed.

Hope this helps...

[DeesBalls]

Buried under the substrate is normal. What temp is it under the cypress where she is?

The cage is way larger than it needs to be but you should still be able to maintain humidity. Three points on humidity...

Evaporation - how the moisture gets into the air in the first place. you will need a very large surface area water bowl(s). In my adult cage less than half that size (24x24x18) my water bowls are about a foot across.

Dissipation - Once airborne, the water molecules will repel each other and spread out as much as possible INCLUDING leaving the enclosure. Screens and other ventilation will not allow the humidity to build up sufficiently. For example, in my Boaphile 421T's (4' x 2' x 1' divided into two sections) I have ZERO vents. Only the small gaps around the drop down doors.

Condensation - once the air becomes overloaded with water molecules they will condense on cool surfaces - the front door. When you see condensation, you know you have decent humidity.


A damp moss hide box will help in two ways. First it provides a nice damp, higher humidity place to hang out. Second, it provides even more evaporation surfaces to get the water into the air.

Misting can also help but IMO is an artificial way to maintain humidity that is reliant on you remembering to mist. I prefer to get my cages working for me so I don't need to do more than clean and feed.

Hope this helps...

it is 75 underneath, (cool side) and as for the misting, and humidity i do understand all that... i have 2 water bowls in there now, neither of whitch are under the heat light...

i had a 60 watt che but that barley kept it 80 degrees, so i will be getting a 100 watt, on a thermostat (soon as they come in) right now everything is on a rheostat.

her temperment i can deal with.. i just want to get the husbandry good.

some one asked how she sheds, she shed all in 1 piece, but that was in previous cages...


long story short...

when i 1st got her, she was in a 64 qt tub, got stuck on tape and i put her ina 10 gal aquarium temperment was a baby doll...

got my new rack and she went in a 41 qt tub with a big bowl of water over the heat tape.... temps were around 84 and humidity was always high. temperment was awesome!

she started to act weird while i had her in the tub.. i went to grab her to pick her up, and she coild around my hand and started to nudge me (acting like i was food) so i thought she was hungery and upped her food...

went from a med mouse, to a small/med rat less freqently...

ever since them she has been acting weird.. i took her out of the tub and put her back in a 10 gallon tank and she seemed fine... and finally from that 10 gal, to her 4x2x2 she is in now...


Handeling wise:
1st got her i held her all the time... until about April of last year i have not got to hold her alot, all month of June i wasnt home, i was on a hunny moon and i really slipped on handling, witch im SURE is what the problem is...


hope this helped you all out, and thanks for all the help. if any one can let me know what size cage she should have, please let me know!


thanks!

[millertime89]

I would switch out that CHE for a RHP in a cage that large. Bulbs of any sort dry things out. The other thing you can do is get a large, clear rubbermaid and use belly heat. I was against using tubs when I first started, but after seeing how easy it is to use them to maintain humidity, I love the things, even if they don't look the best.

[millertime89]

for handling, try hook training her. How big is she now? If she's taking med rats she's probably nearly full grown isn't she?

[DeesBalls]

I would switch out that CHE for a RHP in a cage that large. Bulbs of any sort dry things out. The other thing you can do is get a large, clear rubbermaid and use belly heat. I was against using tubs when I first started, but after seeing how easy it is to use them to maintain humidity, I love the things, even if they don't look the best.

i was thinking about that, i was going to use this cage for something different, and put her in a smaller cage, or a tub...

i actually just checked and it is very humid in the cage... theres no condensation, but i can fell the wet ness lol...



for handling, try hook training her. How big is she now? If she's taking med rats she's probably nearly full grown isn't she?


lol i should clarify, when i say med rat, that is what they are labeld at the pet store.. lol they are small rats.. leaves a nice lump, but not a big rat like medium rats come to mind... she is right around 3.5 to 4 foot, and she is as big around as a 1/2 dollar piece, or a quarter or so not really fat.


maybe she is underfed? maybe she is hungery and that is why she is acting like this??



I did however, just unburried her with my snake hook, and she never stuck... she never stikes, she just "pushes" with her body... once i got her uncovered, she craweld around and acted normal... i misted her like i use to and she sat there like normal...

im so lost... all my other animlas are perfect though, so i have free/extra time to dedicate to her/...

few pics to help with size:
http://i805.photobucket.com/albums/yy336/DGilliland22/IMAG0098.jpg


after she eats:
http://i805.photobucket.com/albums/yy336/DGilliland22/IMAG1907.jpg

just another one of her eating...
http://i805.photobucket.com/albums/yy336/DGilliland22/IMAG1020-1.jpg

again, thanks for everything guys... cant tell you how much i appriciate it.

[Snakesitter]

I agree, replace the CHE with something (anything) else! Personally, I feel undercage heating works best to aid humidity, as you can place the water bowl partly on top of the heat to promote evaporation.

75F underneath should be fine, as she has access to warmer spots when needed.

The most hide will help a lot. It does not need to be fancy -- even a butter tub will work in the short term --just get something in there. Once you have that in, a large low flat water bowl (to mazimize surface area), placed partly on the heat (to promote evaporation), and combined witha moisture-retaining substrate, should provide what you need.

I'm actually not a big fan of tubs. I feel adults need and deserve the stability and space of a full viv. As your snake is a juvie, you could probaby keep her a home half that size (2x2 for floor). Once grown, 3x2 is the recommended minimum floor size for a rainbow. I give all my adults 4x2s.

Hope this helps!

[DeesBalls]

I thought of getting a radient heat panel for her cage... The temp Is actually set now at 82, and I have gotten the humidity up, I am still putting a moist hide in as well... I am also getting like a10x11 baking dish, the glass ones, and putting in the cage under neath the che... Would she benifit from and decor? Could that explain Some of her issues?? As an adult 4x2x what ... How tall???


I might make her a new cage, and give this one to my rtb..

[Snakesitter]

I've not used radiant heat panels, but hear they are quite good at (safely) simulating a natural environment. The only downside is that, unlike undercage heating, they won't help as much with humidity (meaning, you can place Flexwatt right under the water dish to promote evaporation; not an option with heat panels).

Temp sounds perfect for the high end. What is her low end at?

Both moist hide and water dish sound fine.

Decor is optional. So long as the snake has a hide to -- well, hide -- in, she should be fine. The downside is all keeper-related: keep in mind that anything you use to decorate must be periodically sanitized. That can cost a lot of time in a heavily-decorated viv.

Brazilians generally only climb as babies. Once they grow up, they are primarily terrestrial snakes. All my vivs are 12 inches high.

[DeesBalls]

I've not used radiant heat panels, but hear they are quite good at (safely) simulating a natural environment. The only downside is that, unlike undercage heating, they won't help as much with humidity (meaning, you can place Flexwatt right under the water dish to promote evaporation; not an option with heat panels).

Temp sounds perfect for the high end. What is her low end at?

Both moist hide and water dish sound fine.

Decor is optional. So long as the snake has a hide to -- well, hide -- in, she should be fine. The downside is all keeper-related: keep in mind that anything you use to decorate must be periodically sanitized. That can cost a lot of time in a heavily-decorated viv.

Brazilians generally only climb as babies. Once they grow up, they are primarily terrestrial snakes. All my vivs are 12 inches high.

okay, well its final, she is getting a smaller cage...as for heat, the temps are high end around 82-84.. cool end is around 73-74... i put a huge humidity box in there for her but she is still underneath the substrate.


as soon as i get the temperment tamed back down, she will go into a smaller cage, prolly 4'x16''x12'' ... maybe 16 inches high.

[Snakesitter]

That sounds like a good temp range once the high end comes down a degree or two to an even 82.

She'll find the hide eventually, and probably spend 90% of her time there once she does.

Just keep her eventual needs in mind -- at least six square feet of floor space.

[DeesBalls]

thanks again snakesitter,... when the time comes, will you tell me exact measurments for your adults..

as for handleing, i got a hook and been playing around with that. i dont really like it, but it is whats good for her, not me...

at 1st she started to "push" with her body and really didnt like it.. prolly because she didnt know what it was....

after a few days she lets me pick her up with it and move her... (out of water dish and ect...)

going to try and this for a week or so, then try and use my hands to get her off the hook, then when i feed her there will be no hook, just feeding tongs and i think this may help as well...

keep you all undated, and thanks so much for all the help, keep the advice flowing!

[Snakesitter]

Absolutely I will! Please keep us posted.

[DeesBalls]

Thanks so much, and i will keep this thread red hot~ with updates!