Requesting personal exp in regard to the pinkypump

[Shmoges]

I am trying an open dish with a live pinky rat instead of a closed dish to see if this guy will eat. I think the closed dish method is stressful because all he does is hiss and try to get away from the wriggling pinkies. Later today I will try scenting with my frogs lol. I am at the point now where I have to consider force feeding because he is losing weight and its very noticeable. He is big enough that I believe a pinky pump would work and I have administered meds in the past via syringe with no problems. I could try hand forcing but I don't have much exp with that.

[youngster]

What kind of snake is it?
Sorry I can't help.

edot: Nevermind :) just realized this thread is in the hognose forum.

[Shmoges]

Hognose sorry

[Shmoges]

Well I tried hand force feeding and it didn't go well as I expected. The hognose made a bloody mess out of the pinky and I tried laying him down and holding him head up but he just kept fighting and fighting so I gave up. I'd rather try a pinky pump instead of letting him die. On second thought I may just get a large srynge and some clear tubing as suggested by John Hollister, Feeding Tubes and methods. (http://www.herpo.com/tubes/index.html)

Cheaper, but I found 2 different kinds of osteoform theres the one for humans and for animals I'm guessing he ment osteo-form for animals?

I am very concerned about getting it into the lung though...

[Gungirl]

How was this snake being fed before you got him? How long has it been since he last ate?

[Shmoges]

When I first got him he ate weekly and preferred live. Its been like 6 months.

[Gungirl]

What did he eat? how was he being housed? Any chance he could need a vet visit?

If you recreate how he was being housed and offered food I would think he would take it.

[SpOoKy]

For some reason I seem to recall reading somewhere that tuna scenting works wonders with hoggies. Pretty sure it was western hoggs, don't know what you have but I think you should try. I think they are also supposed to be hibernating this time of year. that could be a main reason why it doesn't want to eat. Definitely try the tuna though. Good luck

[Shmoges]

Nothing has changed. I even tried to hibernate him for a month to see if that would get him hungry.

I made this, the srynge may be too small. Now I'm off to buy baby food.
http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af309/Shmoges/IMG_0034.jpg

Yeah it could be that time of year but he is so small and losing weight.

[SpOoKy]

I think you would be better off grinding up some pinks and feeding if you are going to go that route.

[Shmoges]

baby food with a calc supliment should be ok from what I have read besides have you ever ground up a pinky? It stinks and is messy.

[SpOoKy]

baby food with a calc supliment should be ok from what I have read besides have you ever ground up a pinky? It stinks and is messy.

i was thinking more or less the taste of the ground up pinky may spark an appetite again

And yes I have ground up many in my time and yes it is horrible...thats why I have a specific "feeder" grinder :)

[SpOoKy]

I would still try the tuna scenting though. maybe even after you get some food in and some strength up

[shaunyboy]

imo,force feeding with a pinky pump,is the same method as giving meds

when giving meds i use.....

an infant feeding tube cut to size and a syringe

load the syringe,put tube on,press syringe plunger to bring the liquid/paste to the end of the tube (you don't want to inject air into the snake)

then have someone hold the snake firmly on a hard flat surface

keep a firm grip of the snake just behind the head where the jaws end and two thirds along the body (effectively pin the snake to the floor)

gently prize the mouth open with a wooden pencil,used horizontally

then slip the infant feeding tube roughly 3 to 4 inches down the throat (since its a small hognose)

then take the pencil out leaving the tube in place,partly down the throat

with adult carpets i put the tube in 6 to 8 inches depending n the size of the snake

the tube should always be cut to match the size of the snake your using it on,also it must go far enough back the throat,again depending on the size of the snake

re assist feeding
hold the snake firmly with your right hand

grab the left jaw with your right hands thumb

grab the right jaw,with your wedding ring finger,but on your right hand

your right pinky finger,can be used to go slightly under the right jaw,to provide more encompassing of the snakes head,face,neck

use your index finger and the finger next to it,to hold down the top of the snakes head

use the back of your palm to hold the whole back of the neck and head in place

when the snakes head is firmly secured,so it cannot thrash about.....

gently prize its bottom jaw down,until its mouth opens enough,to get the pinkys head in

hold the pinky gently in place in the snakes mouth

at some point the snake should bite down on the pinky

i would wait no longer than 4 to 6 minutes,depending on how i see the snake reacting to the pinky,before i let the snake spit it back out

after the snake bites down,keep a firm hold of the snake but let go the pinky

with luck the snake will start to eat the pinky,if this happens ease your grip on the snake,then just lay the snake into a pre pepaired tub to finish eating

i hope you get the wee guy feeding mate

the forg scenting may well do the job,i've had to scent pinkys with lizards,to get young carpet hatchlings feeding

i wish you all the best next feeding day

you may already know all of the above,but i thought i'd write it for newer keepers to see,how to give medications or assist feed;)

cheers shaun

[Strutter769]

Best of luck to you. Un/Fortunately *knocking on wood* I don't have any experience force feeding a snake. Bearded Dragons.... that's a different story.

[shaunyboy]

baby food with a calc supliment should be ok from what I have read besides have you ever ground up a pinky? It stinks and is messy.

if you want to use that method,the vets sell a high protien cat/dog food

its designed for getting cats/dogs back to health quickly after a long term illness

just give them the same wieght in the paste,as the wieght of the prey you would normally feed the snake

you just water it down to a thick paste,thats able to be pushed through a syringe and an infant feeding tube (also available at the vets)

then administer like a medication

cheers shaun

[Strutter769]

Not trying to be a smart *** but if it helps, I've seen vets on TV place the snake in a tube just wider than the animal, to keep it still. In this case they were administering anesthesia I think.

Good luck!

[shaunyboy]

Not trying to be a smart *** but if it helps, I've seen vets on TV place the snake in a tube just wider than the animal, to keep it still. In this case they were administering anesthesia I think.

Good luck!

the tube would have to be a very tight fit or the snake will still be able to move a little

best keeping a snake fully imobilised when putting a tube down its throat

you've no way of stopping the snake retreating when its in a tube or moving from side to side and up and down

the slightest of movements may interfere when tubing a snake

i've seen the tube method used when using anesthetic on hots though (gas)

cheers shaun

[Shmoges]

Its still a good idea I have a couple tubes I can experiment with.

[jaleely]

I have an aquantance who has used baby food to get a baby BP up to weight. Babyfood and calcium *nod nod*
If you go the pinky way...i hear that sometimes they don't like the guts, only the body and head. haha, that was true for my little dude when i put it up to his nose and he flicked his tongue and hissed and puffed and hated it when i had poped that pinky on accident.

I also think they are trying to do some kind of hybernation right now. my big guy is restless, but doesn't want to eat (usually when restless, he's hunting, and will eat) and the little guy is making all these weirdly placed burrows and peeking at me from them. I say go for the force feeding though, because i don't like to hear the skinny part! Also raising the warmth may increase the metabolism and spike his feeding interest. ah, let us know!

[ZARADOZIA]

If you use baby food, use Beechnut and not Gerber. Gerber adds cornstarch and coloring to the food. Beechnut does not.

[jaleely]

hey i just read a post somewhere else where they used frozen, thawed it, and used a hair dryer to warm it up to 98 degrees internally...checked with a turkey thermometer. they left it sitting there in the dark with the snake!

You know, i forgot to say that my hoggie that does it...does NOT strike. The one time i got my troublesome guy to eat, he didn't eather. He pushed with his nose, and then just opened and ate. That's what my boas do as well. Only the carpet, and a few bps strike to eat. Everyone else if they are being fussy, can be left alone with warm food and they will eventually eat it, if they haven't already taken it when i wiggle it at them lol

I would try the live pinkies in an open area, mabe with a little flufled paper or something they can move against, to make more of a wiggle enticement, and then see how the hog reacts. Maybe leave them all alone for a while (which i would never reccomend even slightly if it wasn't a helpless pinky).

[Shmoges]

If you use baby food, use Beechnut and not Gerber. Gerber adds cornstarch and coloring to the food. Beechnut does not.

Thanks for the heads up! I was holding both and was like wth when I saw the ingredients.

I actually just lowered the temp from 95 to 82 because our last Kenyans died.

[shaunyboy]

Nothing has changed. I even tried to hibernate him for a month to see if that would get him hungry.

I made this, the srynge may be too small. Now I'm off to buy baby food.
http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af309/Shmoges/IMG_0034.jpg

Yeah it could be that time of year but he is so small and losing weight.

you need to cut the end of that tube flush,so its not got that slight point on it mate,also for an adult carpet python you only need a tube roughly 8 inches long

a hoggie will need a much shorter tube,roughly 5 inch imo

you can control the tube much better when its short,also its easier to keep track of how much tubes down the snakes throat

re syringe
that looks like tiny a 1ml syringe

you'll need a 5 or even a 10ml syringe for feeding something the size of a hoggie imo

cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

Its still a good idea I have a couple tubes I can experiment with.


imo putting your hoggie in a tube will just stress it out even more

cheers shaun

[Shmoges]

Lol its not all going down his mouth :D and i cut it at an angle and sanded toe sharpness down so I can aim tward the spine and not the belly so I dont get a lung.

BTW I gave him one unit of calc/water/babyfood and most went down. So Fingers crossed I didn't fill his lung. He isn't gasping or anything so I thnk he can breath fine and he was making swallowing faces, (his cheeks move like that when he drinks). He used to do it all the time when I gave him meds for an RI months ago.

I held him and the tube and my wife squeezed the syringe. Sorry no extra hands for pics.

[shaunyboy]

Lol its not all going down his mouth :D and i cut it at an angle and sanded toe sharpness down so I can aim tward the spine and not the belly so I dont get a lung.

BTW I gave him one unit of calc/water/babyfood and most went down. So Fingers crossed I didn't fill his lung. He isn't gasping or anything so I thnk he can breath fine and he was making swallowing faces, (his cheeks move like that when he drinks). He used to do it all the time when I gave him meds for an RI months ago.

I held him and the tube and my wife squeezed the syringe. Sorry no extra hands for pics.


imo you shouldn't have to go anywhere near as far back the throat with the tube, as worry about hitting a lung

imo your aiming for just far enough down the throat,so that the paste/liquid goes down and not back up

imo the angle you cut the tube at leaves,a nearly straight edge on one side of the tube.imo the straight'ish edge may get pressed against the flesh of the throat,causing an obstruction that will cause you to push harder on the plunger

if the tube moves slightly unblocking the obstruction,the paste will fire out faster/powerfully because of the extra pressure on the plunger

i'm not trying to be cheeky,only giving my thoughts on the picture mate

cheers shaun

[ZARADOZIA]

Thanks for the heads up! I was holding both and was like wth when I saw the ingredients.

I actually just lowered the temp from 95 to 82 because our last Kenyans died.


If you have the time to make your own babyfood, I can tell you how and it is healthier than buying- also cheaper.

If you don't and have to buy, use the Beechnut "Turkey & Turkey broth" and add vitamins. It has the highest protien / lowest sodium ratio than all other babyfoods.

I have a "Baby Bullet" for making baby food. I hate store bought because of the added fillers. Thankfully Beechnut is the best but the sodium is still higher than I would like, although it isn't that high.

Gerber is one of the worst babyfood products out there. I learned that 17 years ago when I pregnant. I am a label reader and when they are using cornstarch as filler and dye for coloring, plus large amounts of sodium...no wonder our children have health and weight issues!

My son never ate store bought baby food. I started making it when I was pregnant and then stored it. Saved a ton of $$$ and my son got healthy food.

It became a very valuable tool because I used that knowledge for picky eaters.

[Gungirl]

With your kenyans dying have you thought that maybe this is more of an issue with the hoggie rather than it just refusing food? I would think that with all the snake deaths you have had maybe whatever was affecting your Kenyans is now affecting your Hoggie..... I would think it's vet time not force feeding time.

[Shmoges]

I would too had I not had experience with local vets and personally not been impressed with there level of knowledge, experience, and price. Some animals for whatever reason will decide to be stubborn at any given time for no reason and if you want to pump money into them go right ahead. I myself have been down that road and am not willing in this instance to do that. I will do what I can for him to give him time and nutrition to decide to start eating again but its up to him ultimately and if he dies he dies. Our female is now twice his size and very sweet, a testament to varying personalities and wills to live between snakes of the snake species.


PS I am going to get a cath tube, I think this aquarium tubing is to rigid and may hurt his esophagus.

[Shmoges]

I got a cathoder(sp) tube the other day and I think this is way better than that aquarium tubing.

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af309/Shmoges/Force%20Feed/IMG_0040.jpg
I honestly didn't like this.

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af309/Shmoges/Force%20Feed/IMG_0046.jpg

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af309/Shmoges/Force%20Feed/IMG_0047.jpg
The end of this thing is brilliantly designed I think and its all made of what feels like soft silicon tubing. I like how the port is on the side and the angle of the end is nice too so I can aim for the spine and avoid a lung.

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af309/Shmoges/Force%20Feed/IMG_0037.jpg

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af309/Shmoges/Force%20Feed/IMG_0038.jpg

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af309/Shmoges/Force%20Feed/IMG_0039.jpg

I would include actual feeding but I dont have extra hands and the wife is never around when I do it.

[KORBIN5895]

Do we want to know how you got that? Was it a souvenir?

[alessia55]

Good luck! How did it go?

[Shmoges]

Lol its new and I got it from a guy I know who breeds rats locally who got them with some snakes he bought and got a lot of supplies. I am sure I could get more from a medical supply store. It works so much better and easier.

[jaleely]

So how are you doing, with the little guy? Did you see my post about feeding them tails? Instead of the pump you just shove a mouse tail down there, and they auto swallow it after a little bit!

[Shmoges]

I am worried enough of getting venomed when I hold his head and he moves back and forth with an open mouth while I force feed let alone getting my fingers even closer with a tail :D

Update as well, This will be my 3rd force feed tonight and he already seems more active. We will have to see if he gains weight, btw I am doing it every other day now that I have a good method of doing it because I have read that they digest the baby food very fast.

[jaleely]

Wow man, i'm sorry he's being such a jerk! LOL
Have you been offering food, in between forcing the food? Maybe he might take it now that he knows you mean business! How big is he? mine just *finally* shed and the shed was 12 inches.
Also, i reached into my sand boa tank the other day, and she bit at me...and got a mouthfull of sanichips...i freaked out and wiped them out of her mouth, but in the process i really hurt her jaw! I still feel awful. It was like the very end was bent up a way it shouldn't be. SHe's okay now, though i'm still really worried and upset...she's acting normal and it looks fine...but i guess my point is she is like 4 times bigger than my hoggie, i can't imagine trying to force that tiny little mouth open!
I hope things stay careful! Keep me updated :)

[Shmoges]

About this big :D
http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af309/Shmoges/Hognose/IMG_0043.jpg

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af309/Shmoges/Hognose/IMG_0041.jpg

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af309/Shmoges/Hognose/IMG_0042.jpg

thats blood from a live pinky rat that after i let him sit with for hours and hours I tryed to get into his mouth. He sure did make it bleed but wouldn't eat it...

[Fredricks]

So has it gotten better?

[jaleely]

oh i hadn't seen the pics...he's big!! Bigger than my guy. Aww i just love'em! And yeah, how's he doin??

[Shmoges]

Much better after a jar of turkey! He has been eating weaned mice for a while now.

[Fredricks]

Much better after a jar of turkey! He has been eating weaned mice for a while now.

That's killer. Was that the trick?
Since I've been researching hognoses for a while I read a ton of horror stories of people losing their snakes

[Shmoges]

I am sure it helped, He started gaining weight and then started eating on his own.