My first post and first hot, FWC

[nicks75]

Hello everyone, my name is Nick and I have taken my first dive into keeping a hot. My experience in keeping snakes has been limited to keeping ball and carpet pythons for the last 15 years, I have also kept varanids and tegus, my only experience with venomous animals has been keeping several species of tarantulas and have actually gotten bitten twice by a pretty decent sized one though the venom was pretty weak and not as bad as I expected it would have been.

I picked up FWC just yesterday and I have to say I certainly see myself falling in love with her pretty quickly, so far in the few times I have handled her she was completely calm, usually just relaxing not very active though I sat her down on the carpet once and got a good example of her speed as she darted across the room.

In my experience with reptiles I have noticed that the calmness of a new animal can quickly chance with becoming acclimated to their new environment but I sure hope she will be an exception. Though I have only had her for one day I have not noticed one ounce of any aggression while handling her though with her in one hand she would show great interest in my other hand if I moved it within her vision though I wouldn't try purposely sticking my fingers near her face. The LPS had her feeding on F/T pinkies and I got to see her gobble one down at the store prior to taking her.
In the last day I have spent most of my waking time reading as much as I can find online about them and certainly have a high respect for them, the LPS told me their venom is comparable to a hognose and after further reading I have come to realize that is not true and is a bit more dangerous.

As of right now I have absolutely no fear of handling her but I certainly respect her for what she is capable of doing, I just hope I never have to find out the hard way as I plan on regularly handling her to keep her used to it and try to learn her body language for when she gets much bigger.

I know I can't post a topic of a new snake without pics but you will have to excuse the quality of them as I only have a cheap phone camera right now.

I hope to hear from other fellow keepers of this fantastic snake and would love to hear some personal experiences, attitude, and of coarse bite report as well as any advice that can be offered.

Thanks for reading and for any advice you can offer to a new owner.

http://i40.tinypic.com/2n3tpi.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/fu3n12.jpg

[marvelfreak]

Cute little guy. I believe we have a couple people on here that have or had them.

[stephanbakir]

They are a blast to keep and get much bigger then you'd expect.
While they venom is only mildly necrotic, keep in mind that some people are allergic.

[KORBIN5895]

Welcome aboard! What the heck is a fwc!?

[SnakeyJay]

False water cobra.... Looks like a nice little guy. From what I've seen they're quite active and fast, congrats :)

[nicks75]

Cute little guy. I believe we have a couple people on here that have or had them.

I believe you do as I have read through old archives of keepers on here, hopefully they are still active and can offer some first hand thoughts on them.


They are a blast to keep and get much bigger then you'd expect.
While they venom is only mildly necrotic, keep in mind that some people are allergic.

They do get pretty big, I've seen a few good pics and vids of full grown adults, very intimidating indeed at that size. From what I understand their venom is comparable to a timber rattle snake without the capability of delivering very much, certainly an animal to be very respected and cautious with.
I hope I not proven wrong but as someone that had been stung many times from bees, wasps and a couple times from tarantulas I feel a little confident not suffering from allergic reactions beyond what the normal reaction would be, not to down play what that would be, being a completely different venom I can only hope


Welcome aboard! What the heck is a fwc!?

False water cobra.... Looks like a nice little guy. From what I've seen they're quite active and fast, congrats :)


Here's a new pic, I had her out and she decided to take a rest and stare me directly in the eyes, she so far is such a sweetheart, she did once again get really fast and flighty when I set her on the carpet, I went to grab her from going under the couch and she freaked a little thrashing around which was admittedly a little nerve racking, she made no attempt to bite but did musk me which I'll take over a bite. Once I had control of her she became completely mellow again.

http://i44.tinypic.com/fxcnwz.jpg

[nicks75]

Handling report for today. Got her out of her enclosure using my poor excuse for hooking skills, but found it much easier than the last time, not very experienced with hooking as of now since I've never had to use a hook before. She offered no resistance and set her on my hand where she remained calm, she laced herself around my fingers where she remained mainly motionless for about 10 minutes, I again tried moving my other hand in her visual perspective and once again she was showing interest following it as it moved, not sure if it's a feeding response, curiosity or finding it a threat but certainly did not show any defensiveness or aggression towards it.
I decided to try again setting her on the floor this time in my hallway where she could not get under anything or get lost.

Once on the floor she slithered away pretty quickly to the corner of the hallway, as I approached her she made her first full blown hood reaction, I'm guessing she felt too exposed and cornered and seeing me from the floor as apposed to being near eye level with me must have seemed threatening to her. I decided that picking her up with my hand in her agitated state would be too risky and approached her slowly with my hook.

She snapped several times at the hook and showed her first signs of being defensive, she did not back off at all and held her ground, had she reacted the same way if it were my hand I would have most likely received a bite.
I was able to hook her good and hold her tail, once on the hook she eased down a bit but still was a little agitated, I decided to take a risk and just set her back on my hand where she immediately calmed down once again and was back to her normal calm self.
I held her for another 5 minutes and figured it was time to put her back home.

I'm not sure why she becomes so defensive putting her on the floor but I'm guessing from her perspective I look much more threatening 6 feet taller than her being cornered than when I have her held at upper body to eye level and she has complete control over me being wrapped on my hand. I hope with future handling sessions can break her of that as I would love it if I could let her free roam when she gets bigger without fear of her getting defensive. I sure her being so little right now plays a factor too.

[minibrat]

Found a little something for just in case you didnt know. "some are very docile and reluctant to bite, whilst others are very defensive and even aggressive or intimidating. Captive bred specimens can become quite tame and trusting and many exhibit a high level of intelligence."

[ZARADOZIA]

I'm not sure why she becomes so defensive putting her on the floor but I'm guessing from her perspective I look much more threatening 6 feet taller than her being cornered than when I have her held at upper body to eye level and she has complete control over me being wrapped on my hand.

Imagine...
You are in an unfamilar alley.
Some one/thing the size of Shaquille O'Neal is coming directly for you.

This is how your baby feels...lol

[SnakeyJay]

Perhaps it's the act of being set down and completely let go, then approached by the jolly green giant so soon after the stress of being removed from her viv that is the issue. It may be an idea to not do this untill she is well established with handling and your more adept with the hook... As with any new snakey, your both new to each other and this is a new species to you.Just my observation as I've never had a fwc.:) goodluck

[nicks75]

Imagine...
You are in an unfamilar alley.
Some one/thing the size of Shaquille O'Neal is coming directly for you.

This is how your baby feels...lol

Perhaps it's the act of being set down and completely let go, then approached by the jolly green giant so soon after the stress of being removed from her viv that is the issue. It may be an idea to not do this untill she is well established with handling and your more adept with the hook... As with any new snakey, your both new to each other and this is a new species to you.Just my observation as I've never had a fwc.:) goodluck

That's certainly agreeable, I'll take your advices and wait before attepting to allow her to free roam again. It was my thought that being left to roam freely would be less stressful than actually being free handled with doesn't 'seem' to be stressful at all for her, but from different perspectives that proves wrong. Until then I'll stick to what she seems content with until we both have more time to learn from each other.

[lady_bug87]

Ok before I start I am NOT trying to be mean or negative or anything...

BUT don't you think it maybe would have been a good idea to be 'good' at hooking and more experienced then you maybe are in handling snakes that could be temperamental something like a carpet (not sure if you have) in my opinion if I were going to venture into hots even one whose venom isn't 'that dangerous' I would want to make sure I knew my stuff.

I am not saying you don't I am saying you sound like you aren't very confident in your skills and when you are nervous you may make mistakes which could lead to a bite and maybe that could be nothing and maybe it could be bad. She won't always be a baby.

[KORBIN5895]

So you are hoping to one day allow this snake to free roam your house?

[lady_bug87]

Ok before I start I am NOT trying to be mean or negative or anything...

BUT don't you think it maybe would have been a good idea to be 'good' at hooking and more experienced then you maybe are in handling snakes that could be temperamental something like a carpet (not sure if you have) in my opinion if I were going to venture into hots even one whose venom isn't 'that dangerous' I would want to make sure I knew my stuff.

I am not saying you don't I am saying you sound like you aren't very confident in your skills and when you are nervous you may make mistakes which could lead to a bite and maybe that could be nothing and maybe it could be bad. She won't always be a baby.


Sorry I meant experience hooking snakes that are temperamental

[shaunyboy]

Imagine...
You are in an unfamilar alley.
Some one/thing the size of Shaquille O'Neal is coming directly for you.

This is how your baby feels...lol


another thing to take into account is your floor is a large OPEN space

imo your snake will feel exposed/vulnerable and stressed in said open space,so act defensive mate

cheers shaun

[nicks75]

Ok before I start I am NOT trying to be mean or negative or anything...

BUT don't you think it maybe would have been a good idea to be 'good' at hooking and more experienced then you maybe are in handling snakes that could be temperamental something like a carpet (not sure if you have) in my opinion if I were going to venture into hots even one whose venom isn't 'that dangerous' I would want to make sure I knew my stuff.

I am not saying you don't I am saying you sound like you aren't very confident in your skills and when you are nervous you may make mistakes which could lead to a bite and maybe that could be nothing and maybe it could be bad. She won't always be a baby.

Thanks for the reply, I don't take what you said as mean, but I appreciate you pointing out your intentions. I've had carpets in the past that were temperamental as babies, I recently got another, you are right though I should have practiced for a while with hooking them before moving on to more dangerous snakes but never considered I would have needed that skill.
I should have taken that into consideration before making the decision in getting a hot. I was told when I was asking the breeder that their venom was not dangerous so taking their word for it was my mistake. I don't regret that decision but I admit it was a mistake for being impulsive.

I have to say though I have no fear when I am handling her (at present size anyway) though when she became defensive on the floor it was a little "nerve racking" but I wasn't at all afraid, maybe I should be but it could be that I have handled large tarantulas on a regular basis in the past and learned to control my fear with them, not that that gives me any experience with a venomous snake.

So you are hoping to one day allow this snake to free roam your house?

Well no not roam freely unsupervised, just for the sake of exercise on occasion when I take her out, I've done so with my pythons when they get big, I always keep an eye on them and make sure there's no where they can get to that I cannot see or reach them, I don't keep them out too long and I live alone so there's no risk to anyone else.

another thing to take into account is your floor is a large OPEN space
imo your snake will feel exposed/vulnerable and stressed in said open space,so act defensive mate

cheers shaun

Thanks for the assurances, that was my thoughts, I guess it's the same reason why baby snakes get stressed if you start them out in too large of an enclosure, they lose that comfort of feeling safe. It was a surprise for me though considering how calm she is when holding her, such a big change in attitude.

[lady_bug87]

I would just be worried then again you could always hold off handling her and practice hook training with your other snakes non venomous are more forgiving in my honest opinion

[Shmoges]

Do FWC hood up? I read they are rear fanged so I am not as scared for you as I first was reading they were venomous and seeing it in your hand lol. Very cool snake, at first I thought it was a mexican corn snake from the picture or some colubrid.

[nicks75]

Do FWC hood up? I read they are rear fanged so I am not as scared for you as I first was reading they were venomous and seeing it in your hand lol. Very cool snake, at first I thought it was a mexican corn snake from the picture or some colubrid.

lol, yes they do hood up but generally stay vertical unlike real cobras that stand erect. Mine only did it when I set her down as described in a previous post. I would never keep let alone handle a snake capable of killing me with a bite such as real cobras, as I sometimes say, "I may be dumb but I'm not stupid", lol, not to imply that keeping deadly hots are stupid just 'me' keeping them would be.
Even though they are rear fanged from what I have seen and read I know they can still deliver a pretty serious bite, though at her present size I'm not very worried beyond pain and swelling if she were to bite me.
I've spent a lot of time researching everything I can find online for the last 3 days and pretty read as much as I could find on them including videos which is why I am trying to get a new discussion going on them, I'm hoping to hear some new hands on experiences from keepers on here if they read this thread.

And when I mailed a pic to a friend he thought the same thing about it being a corn snake. Beyond how she got when I put her down you would think from her demeanor that she is a corn snake.


I would just be worried then again you could always hold off handling her and practice hook training with your other snakes non venomous are more forgiving in my honest opinion

That's a good idea, I do only plan on hooking her to get her out of her enclosure, when she is out I free handle her, might be a dumb idea to do so but she really has such a calm demeanor when I do, she even allows me to lightly stroke her neck and body without reacting or hooding, it's just once I put her down she changes with previous posters gave logical reasons as why.

I did pull her out just before posting this for a handling session and decided to have her spend more time on the hook instead of placing her right away on my hand, she handles very easily on the hook when taking her out, she ended up after 30 seconds just coiling around the hook and stayed there for a few minutes while I sat down and placed her on my lap until she voluntarily moved to my hand for a few more minutes.

I don't know how fast she will grow, it would be great if someone that does know to jump in, shes just over 12-13 inches right now, but I would really like to handle her as much as possible obviously without over handling while she is as small as she is to get her as tolerant to it as I can.

I don't plan on free handling her as I do now when she gets bigger, certainly not unless I have to or maybe just to keep her accustomed to it for when I do have to. But I will certainly use my hook on my other snakes in the mean time to get as much practice as I can for such a time that I might need to use it for my safety.

[KORBIN5895]

I thought rear fanged snakes bite and cut a furrow with their teeth. They then secret venom into the furrows unlike rattlers that have hollow fangs and inject the venom into their prey. Pleas correct me if wrong.

[jarich]

All venomous snakes are from a single common ancestor, both rear and front fanged. All snake fangs start in the back of the mouth and then move during jaw development to the front in some, like cobras. All these fangs developed from grooved teeth initially, some are just grooved so much that they have closed off into basically hollow teeth. Depending on the species, there are varying degrees of muscle groups which also add to the "injection" of the poison. Rear fanged snakes are considered the lesser developed of the two groups as far as that goes. So, you are right Korbin that rear fanged essentially just puncture a wound and then let the poison enter the wound. Its why they will often 'chew' rather than just strike. However, the poison of FWC is about the same as say a Timber Rattlesnake, as a point of reference, so I would definitely treat that little one with a lot of respect! It wont kill you, but it can cause permanent damage to the area.

[KORBIN5895]

So do rear fanged snakes have any front teeth?

[jarich]

Yep, quite a few

[KORBIN5895]

So then who cares if its rear fanged or not? If it punctures you with the front teeth can it still secret venom? And if it hooks you with the front teeth won't it just work its jaws till it has its back fangs in you?

[jarich]

Rear fanged snakes will often not use their venom though, even if they bite. They will sometimes strike and bite as a defense to get a predator to go away, but most often not use their venom. The venom in rear fanged snakes is often slow acting or not very potent in some so it wouldnt really ward off a big predator very well. It is also very expensive for the snake to produce, from a metabolic point of view, so it saves it until its most useful.

[KORBIN5895]

I see where you are coming from but that statement has a lotta ifs and is not very cut and dry. It sounds a lot like it depends on the whim of the snake. It sounds like there is a high chance it won't use its venom. Yet there is still a chance it will. It seems like the attitude is I probably won't get bit and if I do it probably won't use its venom. So it not that great of a risk.

I am not saying that's anyone's attitude but it seems risky to me. It also seems like people are a little more lax because its a rear fanged.

[lady_bug87]

^^ exactly its like If 1 in every 5 packs of cigarettes has one dynamite cigarette inside... eventually you are going to blow up, there may be a high instance of you not blowing up but the possibility is there

[jarich]

Oh I totally agree, I wasnt saying they arent dangerous. I think they should still be considered very dangerous. Like I said up above, they can still cause permanent damage, so I definitely think they are something to be handled with extreme caution.

[KORBIN5895]

^^^^^ I hear ya but its the others I am worried about. Let's put it this way...... my friend Hans raised a fawn. It turned into a nice buck. He was always able to go into its pen whenever he please without clovey having any issues. But he never even attempted entering his pen during the rut because of the danger. Ok does this make sense? I gotta get some sleep. 17 hour shift tomorrow.

[RandyRhoads]

Mine bit be a good number of times. Including a few where it chewed and was a pain to get off. It was less serious than a bee sting every time. Almost entertaining to feel the effects with no serious effects....

[Lankyrob]

Welcome back Randy!!! Long time no see!! :)

[nicks75]

Mine bit be a good number of times. Including a few where it chewed and was a pain to get off. It was less serious than a bee sting every time. Almost entertaining to feel the effects with no serious effects....

That's good to hear you didn't suffer a bad reaction, can you explain the circumstances leading to some of the bites? How did you manage to get it off? How was the attitude in general beyond the times it bit you, and how big was it when it bit you?

[Will0W783]

FWC are generally considered to cause no permanent damage to people; therefore, they are sold in the non-venomous section of reptile shows, and can be sold at pet stores and shipped via Fedex/UPS.
The vast majority of people who are envenomated by an FWC, hognose, vine snake, or other rear-fanged snake, will experience mainly swelling and perhaps some blood blisters. Some people, or in the cases of severe envenomation, may have a bit of minor necrosis, and the swelling may last up to a week, but there are generally no lasting effects or permanent disfigurement.

HOWEVER, some people may be allergic to the venom, just as some people are allergic to bee stings. In these cases, it is not so much the bite and venom effects that kill the person or cause severe problems, but instead it is anaphylactic shock and allergic response. These people may have some last damage, as their body cannot properly metabolize the venom since it is launching an allergic attack response. However, these are rare cases, and it is generally considered that the animal does not pose a significant threat to human health, or it would be sold as a venomous snake.

I do not necessarily agree nor disagree with the way rear-fanged snakes are sold. It just is what it is. I do however, strongly feel that people who tend to have allergies to other animals, especially those who are allergic to bees and wasps, should not keep rear-fanged snakes, or if they do, they should treat them as carefully as a rattlesnake or true cobra. To these people- the FWC truly is as dangerous as its Naja counterparts.

You won't know for sure if you are allergic or not unless you are bitten, so the best course of action is not to be bitten. That being said, rear-fanged snakes must chew their venom into the victim, so a quick defensive bite is generally a "dry" (non-envenomating) bite. If the animal locks on and does attempt to chew, one can insert a pen or pencil into the mouth and use it gently pry the snake off, or dribble/spray a small bit of vodka into the mouth. This will generally cause the snake to release. Another method that often gets a snake to release is to run it under cold water. The snake can breath while biting and eating, but water running constantly into its mouth will cause it to release so that it can close its mouth and breath. I have had to use the water method to get a woma python off my arm when it was firmly convinced that it could consume my lower arm...lol.

In general, a bit of care and common sense should keep you out of harm's way; however, if you do happen to have allergies to bees, I would be exceedingly careful.

[jarich]

Great information Kim, thanks for that!

[RandyRhoads]

Welcome back Randy!!! Long time no see!! :)

Thanks Rob!

That's good to hear you didn't suffer a bad reaction, can you explain the circumstances leading to some of the bites? How did you manage to get it off? How was the attitude in general beyond the times it bit you, and how big was it when it bit you?

It was a full drown adult. And it shames me to say it but I think every bite was due to me being a jack***. Drinking with people then.."oohh let's play with the cobra." I started out a pretty bad snake owner, buying more than I could handle for the wrong reason.

As far as getting it off, it was normally a friend trying to just pull it off the times it wouldn't let go. (haha I got what I deserved at least). The alchohol and running it under water is a good idea, but I know for my small burm, that just angers him and makes him bite down harder. He doesn't care if it burns or drowns him he will not let go untill HE is ready.


As far as the attitude. I loved it when it hooded up, other than that I didn't like it. It would tear up and turn over every square inch of its cage
and never sit still. It escaped a few times before I locked it up in my vision cage untill I could get rid of it.

[Will0W783]

As far as the attitude. I loved it when it hooded up, other than that I didn't like it. It would tear up and turn over every square inch of its cage
and never sit still. It escaped a few times before I locked it up in my vision cage untill I could get rid of it.

Sounds like an FWC- mine was a very active snake as well. Mine never escaped, but I always had a locking cage for it. They do like to rearrange things in their cages, but mine was a well-mannered snake. FWCs will usually whip their tails and thrash in the cage, but tend to calm down once out. I NEVER handle ANY snake after I've been drinking. I do not have a single sip of alcohol unless my snake room has been cared for for the day. It's a risk I'm not willing to put myself or my snakes at. I certainly hope you no longer do that stuff, Randy. You need to be at your full vigilance with snakes, regardless of size or power, or venom. They are all quick and sneaky, and a snake could easily escape and be lost or killed.

If you think FWC cage decoration is bad...try having an actual cobra. I got home last night and found that my monocled had projectile defecated onto his ceiling, and down the walls. :shocked: He'd also urinated in his water dish. Shelby will throw anything around in his cage that he can move, and needs the cage cleaned about 3 times a week...every week....far more work than an FWC.

[alessia55]

If you think FWC cage decoration is bad...try having an actual cobra. I got home last night and found that my monocled had projectile defecated onto his ceiling, and down the walls. :shocked: He'd also urinated in his water dish. Shelby will throw anything around in his cage that he can move, and needs the cage cleaned about 3 times a week...every week....far more work than an FWC.

And one time when I was over, Kim cleaned Shelby's cage, and then he pooped almost immediately after she put him back in...meaning she had to clean the cage twice in 15mins :eek: a lot of work for sure :yes:

[RandyRhoads]

I certainly do not. As I said it shamed to to admit it. It was a bad period in my life, I no longer drink at all....not even a sip.

I actually want a monocled, really,really bad. Hopefully once i'm done in school, get rid of my bigger snakes (and move to a state where they are legal), I can get one. Where did you get yours? Rescue or breeder? Besides it being a slob what's the attitude like? Does it even calm down or as soon as you enter the room does he hood up?

[Will0W783]

He's not a slob, per se..he's just a cobra. It's how they are. ..they are territorial, active, easily bored and very intelligent for snakes. So they rearrange stuff, tear around and **** everywhere. Their metabolic rate is extremely high for a snake, so they need to be fed more often and cleaned up after more often.

My monocled is well-behaved in general. He's a terror in his cage at times, other days he is just calm and curious. He is placid on the hook, but will thrash if you aren't supporting him well enough. He does calm down, but you cannot for one second expect him to. He's a very deadly snake, and you cannot ever let that slip your mind.

IF you have any intentions of eventually owning a cobra, I suggest you look into mentoring. While rat snakes and mangroves were good practice for honing my hooking and tailing skills, nothing behaves quite like a cobra..except for a cobra. The only reason I own Shelby is because I had a mentor who trained me with his own cobras, and then sold me a hatchling when he felt that I was ready.
A cobra is not to be taken lightly...and the decision is not an easy one or to be entered into without proper training and skills. They can be very rewarding, and I thoroughly enjoy mine, but do not get one until you have been cleared by a mentor.