The Shelby Thread :)

[Will0W783]

Since my friend Alessia (alessia55) has come to visit a few times and taken some really awesome pictures of my little guy, I figured I'd start a thread on him. Shelby was born in April of 2011, and is a CBB albino monocled cobra (Naja kaouthia).
He was bred by my venomous mentor, and I brought him home after my mentor told me he felt I was ready. I'd been working with his cobras, and was comfortable with their movements, had stopped being startled by the loud hissing, and could anticipate when a lunge was coming.

I found the cobras very similar in behavior, movements and attitude to my tiger rat snake, Spilotes pullatus. The cobras were louder, but actually bluffed more and were easier on the hook than the rat snake. They don't hold still for a second though, but they are fun to work with.

Shelby has been a delight to own. He's quite laid-back for a cobra, but is just now experimenting with his hood (like a little boy discovering his you-know-what) so I expect that I'll be seeing that pretty flare more often as time goes on. He eats like a PIG...cobras have very fast metabolic rates for snakes, and they poop a lot. I thought corn snakes were bad- I clean Shelby's cage about 2-3 times a week. He is fed once every 5-7 days on a small mouse fuzzy. Cobras do better being fed smaller prey items more often, as they don't have quite the swallowing capacity of pythons and boas.

Anyway, enough babbling. Without further ado, here is my little hooder:

[Will0W783]

And some more pictures:

[Gungirl]

Love the Target on the back of his hood. Its super cute.

[alessia55]

Yayy Shelby has his own thread! :D He moves a lot but he's fun to photograph, even if it's just through the glass :)

[jarich]

Beautiful snake! Im curious, with hots do you work with them often in the hopes of getting them used to you? It seems logical but Im not at all sure of the protocol with hots.

[youngster]

Great thread!
Love it, he's so cute! ya know, in a deadly kind of way.

[Will0W783]

It depends on the species. Some species, like those in the genus Atheris (the bush vipers) are known for being aggressive, nervous animals. I have an Usumbara mountain horned bush viper, and I work with her as little as possible. She spazzes and bites herself, the hook, the branches in her cage, the air...everything. She's only about a foot long, so it's fairly simple to stay out of her range, but I do not like upsetting her. Generally most arboreal vipers will not change much no matter how much you work with them. My temple viper is very laid-back and has not struck at me once, even though she is handled only a few times a month to get soaks and/or her cage cleaned. She was tame when I got her, and I see no reason why she wouldnt' remain that way, as the species is known for being docile. I still use hooks, gloves and proper technique, but she's an easy hot to work with.

Other species, like cobras, do benefit from frequent work. They tend to be quite placid as babies, go through a "teenage" aggressive phase, and then go into their adult personality. That being said, there are cobras that will relax into very placid, docile snakes, and there are others that will be holy terrors their entire lives. I have a good friend who had a monocled cobra that became more and more aggressive with each passing week he had it, until the moment he walked into the snake room it was hooded up, hissing, and smashing off the glass of its cage. My mentor has one 6-foot female that was horrendous to work with. She struck at me, whipped around on me, musked me, pooped on me, and twisted her body around like a whip while on the hook. It took me ten minutes to get her moved from one cage to another. On the other hand, he had another female who handled like a cornsnake on the hook and was perfectly pleasant.
Shelby is good with the hook. He can be hooded up and hissing, but as soon as I touch him gently with the hook, he relaxes and can be moved. I use thick bite-resistant gloves in addition to hooking and tailing. They are NOT a substitute for good handling techniques but I like having the extra level of protection.

[Kayla90]

He's so freaking adorable.. I just want to eat him up.. hehe.. Good thing he's not poisonous :P

[Will0W783]

Haha, I know what you mean, youngster. Baby cobras are ridiculously cute. Shelby is a very curious, full of personality snake. Every time I enter the room, he pops his head out of his tank hide to look at what I'm doing, and when he's made a mess he cruises and squirms against the cage walls until I clean his cage. If I'm cleaning another cage or handling another snake, he watches and flicks his tongue rapidly. If I go to the freezer where the food is kept, he goes nuts and bounces all over. He makes me laugh on an almost daily basis, but I know he could end my existence in one moment of bad temper. It's an interesting dichotomy- a cute, endearing little snake that can actually kill a full-grown man very easily. He keeps me on my toes and I never forget his capabilities, but I love him nonetheless and enjoy his antics.

[stephanbakir]

Shes a stunner, shame you had to throw the lid at her... shame..........

[stephanbakir]

It depends on the species. Some species, like those in the genus Atheris (the bush vipers) are known for being aggressive, nervous animals. I have an Usumbara mountain horned bush viper, and I work with her as little as possible. She spazzes and bites herself, the hook, the branches in her cage, the air...everything. She's only about a foot long, so it's fairly simple to stay out of her range, but I do not like upsetting her. Generally most arboreal vipers will not change much no matter how much you work with them. My temple viper is very laid-back and has not struck at me once, even though she is handled only a few times a month to get soaks and/or her cage cleaned. She was tame when I got her, and I see no reason why she wouldnt' remain that way, as the species is known for being docile. I still use hooks, gloves and proper technique, but she's an easy hot to work with.

Other species, like cobras, do benefit from frequent work. They tend to be quite placid as babies, go through a "teenage" aggressive phase, and then go into their adult personality. That being said, there are cobras that will relax into very placid, docile snakes, and there are others that will be holy terrors their entire lives. I have a good friend who had a monocled cobra that became more and more aggressive with each passing week he had it, until the moment he walked into the snake room it was hooded up, hissing, and smashing off the glass of its cage. My mentor has one 6-foot female that was horrendous to work with. She struck at me, whipped around on me, musked me, pooped on me, and twisted her body around like a whip while on the hook. It took me ten minutes to get her moved from one cage to another. On the other hand, he had another female who handled like a cornsnake on the hook and was perfectly pleasant.
Shelby is good with the hook. He can be hooded up and hissing, but as soon as I touch him gently with the hook, he relaxes and can be moved. I use thick bite-resistant gloves in addition to hooking and tailing. They are NOT a substitute for good handling techniques but I like having the extra level of protection.
And thats an aggressive mono, cape cobras are all like that and worse. Elapids are not for the novice keeper!

[Will0W783]

Lol. Yeah that was not the world's best feeding video. :-/

Shelby is a male, by the way. I know he's very pretty, but he is a boy. :)

[stephanbakir]

Hes one sexy boy, must be one of those pretty model types :P

[Will0W783]

Definitely ANY elapid is NOT for a novice. They can be very unpredictable and quick on a hook. I think that the only reason I took to working with them as easily as I did is that I have years of experience keeping aggressive wild-caught ratsnakes. Those things are crazy and behave similarly on a hook. And the rat snakes will give you a good hearty chomp if they get a chance, so I learned to dance them on a hook to keep the head away from me. It's much the same motions with the cobras.

I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND ANYONE GET A COBRA WITHOUT YEARS OF EXPERIENCE WITH NON-VENOMOUS SPECIES AND A GOOD HONEST VENOMOUS MENTOR. THEY ARE NOT TO BE UNDERESTIMATED AND ONE TINY MISTAKE IS ALL IT WOULD TAKE FOR YOUR LIFE TO BE OVER, OR FOREVER CHANGED.

I don't want to preach at anyone...I would hope that people here will be responsible enough to undesrtand that as much as I enjoy keeping my cobra, it is not for everyone and nothing to be taken lightly. Just because I have had mostly good experiences with them and my particular specimen is well-behaved does not mean it would be the same for anyone else. Cobras are highly intelligent, quick-learning, fast moving spastic nuts. They do bluff a lot and give you warning in most cases, but they can get you without you even seeing it coming if you don't know what to look out for.

[Will0W783]

Hes one sexy boy, must be one of those pretty model types :P

BAhaahahaahaa! He's too sexy for his hood, too sexy for his hood, so sexy it's not good. :-P

[Lankyrob]

There was a guy in the UK recently got killed by a King Cobra - had worked with them for tens of years and ran a rescue for them, he had quite a lot of them and was considered one of the best - it took less than three minutes for him to die, even now nobody really knows how the snake got him only that it was a new rescue being taken form a travel tub to its quarantine cage. :sad:

[stephanbakir]

Isn't it true that if you live/work around enough venomous snakes you breath in atomized particles of dry venom and develop a hyper allergic reaction to it over time (without proper ventilation that is)

[Will0W783]

Good grief---my internet is driving me nuts today. This is my third attempt to post a reply- Firefox keeps crashing on me, lol.

Stephan, I had not heard that yet, but I suppose it could be possible. It might be similar to what is happening when people inject themselves with very small doses of venom to build up a resistance over time, except that when breathed in the venom might act as an allergen. If one developed this allergic reaction to dry venom, would one also have a much worse experience in the case of a bite then? I'd really be interested in reading the link or paper that you got this information from. :)

Rob, I did read about Luke Yeomans when he passed a few months back. It's always sad when a seasoned keeper dies, and this was especially sad because he had a wife and young kids and had a huge facility. I hope all his snakes are well cared-for now. He had a few good videos, but I think he tended to take too many chances. He said the cobras respected him and knew him after a while and he trusted them then. First mistake. He also used Venom Defender gloves as a primary protection- without hooks or tongs. He would wear the gloves and let the snakes bite and chew on the gloves....second mistake. He let the snakes move about a bit much when he was working with them too. The moment you set a cobra down on the floor, it claims its territory and then it is in control, not you. Keep it on a hook and moving, so that you can have a chance of staying in control of it. Maybe once one has been working with a particular species for years and years, one gets somewhat comfortable and complacent, but this is actually more dangerous than a newbie keeper who is hyper-careful in many cases. It's sad and I hope his family and animals will be ok without him. :(

[Lankyrob]

His animals are now with a friend of mine as far as i know (havent spoken to him for a couple of months and he was meant to be taking them all)

[Will0W783]

Oh wow, that's great. I'm glad they are in good hands. I love king cobras- I stare at the one at my local zoo every time I visit until my fiance drags me away, lol. They just get so MASSIVE and they are soo very potent. I can't imagine owning a deadly hot that gets as long as a retic personally. I'll stick with my monocleds and such...they stay small and antivenin is readily available in my area. I would love to get a black forest cobra some day or a black and white spitter- I love their patterns. But that wouldn't be until many years in the future.

[shaunyboy]

beautifull cobra kimberly

a very respected old herp gentleman in the uk called Frank Schofield,lost one of his fingers after a bite from an albino cobra

you have some amazing hots in your collection pal

cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

There was a guy in the UK recently got killed by a King Cobra - had worked with them for tens of years and ran a rescue for them, he had quite a lot of them and was considered one of the best - it took less than three minutes for him to die, even now nobody really knows how the snake got him only that it was a new rescue being taken form a travel tub to its quarantine cage. :sad:

in this case the bite induced a massive heart attack,if i remember correctly mate

cheers shaun

[jaleely]

what a doll. sooo cute. i don't think i'll ever be able to have a hot snake. I'm entirely too hands on, and like you said, it only takes once. My balls, boas, corns and hognose are so easy going, i'm spoiled. My carpet is a little nipper, always has been, but is to the point where she draws blood now. I hardly ever get tagged anymore though, just because i know her better now and know when she's fussy. She threatens too, and will strike but just bump with her nose ..cracks me up, the little brat.

as beautiful as they are, i don't think i trust myself. i'm clumsy, and i get too happy when things are being cute. Was feeding our snowflake eel, and porcupine puffer the other day, and they bite too, if they miss the food. *lmao* i just laugh.

The only thing in the house I haven't been bitten by is the croc skink, and he tarantulas...though i've had hairs kicked at me on numerous occasions.

Anyway...your dude is beautiful. I'm not responsible enough to ever test having one though. but ooooh how jealous i am! :)

[Hurrok]

Wow! So gorgeous, he is definitely a stunner :D

[millertime89]

awesome little cobra, can't wait to see more pictures as he grows.

[Will0W783]

Well, you won't have to wait long. He's entering another shed- last one was three weeks ago and he gained 4 inches. He's the fastest-growing snake I've ever kept.

[Will0W783]

Ok, well it's been a while, so time for some updates on Shelby Cobra. He's now eating adult f/t mice (he's a bit too small yet for rat pups and rat pinks give him the runs) every week.
He seems to know when it's time to be fed, because if I try to stretch him a few more days, he goes nuts. When I come into the room, he opens his mouth and presses it against the glass, thrashes his tail around, charges all over the cage, and makes little "mouth-smacking" gestures. It's hilarious. He has begun to hood and hiss a LOT....but still is perfectly manageable when I remove him for cleaning. I am hoping that this level of hood/hiss/mock striking is his "terrible teens" and he will chill back out as he nears adulthood.

He's about time and a half the size he was when I got him in September, and sheds about every 3 weeks. I've added some loose moss to the cage, and I mist it down once a day. I often see him moving the moss around from one end to the other, or bunching it up in a corner. It gives him something to do and is neat to watch.

Alessia55 came over Sunday to pick up her two ball pythons that I snakesat while she was on vacation, so she shot a few quick pics of Shelby. Here they are; enjoy!

[Norm66]

Sweet pics and amazing snake. As I said in Allessia's thread a couple days ago he's definitely grown. Either that or the tank is shrinkin, lol. Thanks for sharing.

[Swany]

Beautiful snake. I only got my BP a month ago, and can't imagine even wanting to own a hot, or anything too big to handle on my own. Maybe as time goes by (did someone sat play it again sam ?) I'll change my mind about a large snake, but I'm really too much of a scaredy cat for something that could kill me.

[Trent]

Wow. he really is something else!!!

[Will0W783]

Thanks guys...I'm enjoying him, but he's definitely keeping me on my toes.

[Kayla90]

God, he is absolutely gorgeous.

[Hillsberry]

Wow Kim, Shelby is stunning! :D

[Will0W783]

Thanks! He appreciates all the attention- he is definitely a little show-off. He actually ate his food normally last night. The last two months or so he's been tearing off the limbs of his mice, then eviscerating them and sucking out the intestines, and then finally eating the rest of it. My fiance calls him the "Jeffrey Dahmer of snakes." So I was really pleased that he just went ahead and ate his mouse last night without going all serial killer on it, lol.

[Norm66]

wow. I've never heard of a snake dismembering their food before. Pretty neat but I can see why your'e happy he went conventional this time. :)

[Will0W783]

wow. I've never heard of a snake dismembering their food before

I'd never heard of it either Norm. He is very intelligent, and I think he figured out that removing legs made the prey easier to swallow by accident. One time he struck the mouse and tore off a back leg. The other leg had broken off in the bag, so he was then eating a mouse with no back legs, and I guess it went down easier, because the next several times I fed him he tore both back legs off before swallowing the rest. Another time he struck one that had been heated a bit more and its stomach tore open, and the intestines fell out. Shelby sucked them out like a big piece of spaghetti, and then tore open the next few mice to do the same. I have no idea how sucking out intestines could make the rest easier to swallow- perhaps they have a particularly good taste and he wanted to taste them? Regardless, it was a pain in the butt to clean up after because there would be bloody water all over his cage and him when he was finished. I'm really glad he just ate the darned thing last night, and hopefully he sticks with it. He's definitely an.....interesting...snake to own.

[Norm66]

Again... Wow. Better you than me. LOL. I'm pretty sure ripping off legs and slurping guts would be a deal breaker for my wife. hehehehe

[youngster]

C'mon guys, I'm eating breakfast ;)

[Will0W783]

Lol, Eli. You should know better than to read the forum while eating. ;)

[KD35WIN.AS.ONE]

Kimberly i see Shelby is growing at a healthy rate, he looks wonderful. And as for his feeding habits i have witnessed young cobras do some grotesque acts with their food... although nothing quite like that.

What are your plans for his next enclosure?

What are your plans for an adult enclosure?...I just the other day finished designing a 7'x6'x4' enclosure for an female naja pallida. Its going to feature a built in shiftbox, besides making it safer it will help with breeding tremendously. I hope it turns out well, ill take some pictures of her aswell.

[CK SandBoas]

Shelby is just getting more and more beautiful as he grows!

[millertime89]

Kim, you should try taking video of him when feeding and see if you can get his peculiar behavior on video. I've never heard of a snake doing that.
He looks great, in those pictures Alessia took it also looks like he's about to shed again.

[KD35WIN.AS.ONE]

Kim, you should try taking video of him when feeding and see if you can get his peculiar behavior on video.


I agree...

[Will0W783]

I will try to get a video of it. He generally doesn't like being recorded while eating, and will leave his food while he hisses and hoods at the camcorder until I go away. KD, do your Naja get a frightful attitude for a good few hours after being fed? Shelby goes ballitstic and hoods and strikes and hisses all over the place...I don't know if he just gets stuck in feed mode, or if he instinctually knows he's more vulnerable with a full belly?

As for enclosure plans, I just made a big long post and it disappeared...grrr. I was looking at a line of melamine enclosures I saw at the last show. It's a nice cage, sealed seams, 4' long x 2' wide, x 2' tall. I want to give him something tall enough that he can stand and hood if he wants to. He tends to stand up a lot- he will periscope up a lot without hooding too. I might look for a used smaller cage for an interim enclosure, like 2 x 2 x 1 or something, but I don't have any other snakes that are small enough to use that, so I don't want to spend much on it. I think Shelby still has a good 4 months or so of being comfy in his current enclosure. He is growing rapidly though, so I plan to keep my eyes open for used interim caging for him.

[millertime89]

set up a makeshift tripod and leave the room?

[Will0W783]

Ok, as requested here is a Shelby eating experience! Last night was not one of his most interesting performances, but it did make me chuckle. He grabbed his mouse by the back leg and the leg would not tear off, so he started to try to eat it leg-first. He spent a good ten minutes struggling with it, smashing it off of his cage furniture, dragging it around and shaking his head. He busted the guts open, massacred the mouse's butt, but he was bound and determined to eat it that way....either that or he wanted the leg off. Not sure which.
After about ten minutes of watching him coat every inch of his cage with mouse guts and juices, he gave up and ate it head-first. He also ate his first rat pup last night- his first meal with seconds! He's growing like a weed and is shedding again in fact.

***The nasty brownish-red stuff on the paper substrate is the juices he spilled from the mouse. The cage was cleaned Wednesday night, and it will be cleaned again tomorrow morning after he has a bit of time to digest****

Ok, here he is chowing down:

http://s254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/?action=view&current=c31c85b7.mp4

Here he is after he finally decided to eat it head-first. You can see the guts hanging out and the absolute mess he made of it.
http://s254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/?action=view&current=1c7c7837.mp4

Looking for seconds and showing off his hood:
http://s254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/?action=view&current=5c6db06c.mp4

[Will0W783]

Ok why did none of my videos show up?? Let's try this again.


First video of him eating it leg-first:
c31c85b7.mp4 video by Will0W783 - Photobucket (http://s254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/?action=view&current=c31c85b7.mp4)

Second video of him finally swallowing:
37e84b1c.mp4 video by Will0W783 - Photobucket (http://s254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/?action=view&current=37e84b1c.mp4)

Looking for seconds:
5c6db06c.mp4 video by Will0W783 - Photobucket (http://s254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/?action=view&current=5c6db06c.mp4)

[Gungirl]

Lol.. Man he made a mess out of that mouse.

[CK SandBoas]

Great videos, especially the last one with Shelby Hooding, looking for more food:)

[Will0W783]

He's terrible, Kat. He is by far the messiest little b**tard ever. And after he gets done eating, he has a terrible temper for the rest of the night, so I get to listen to a background symphony of hisses and thuds while I feed the rest, lol.

[Gungirl]

It has to be interesting to try and keep his tank clean:O_o:

[Will0W783]

Interesting isn't quite the word I'd use, lol.:tired1_2:

He is a very fun snake to own, and his antics always amuse me, but he is definitely messy. He eats once a week, so there is always a cleaning the day after a feeding. He also poops about 2-3 times for every feed, so I have to clean his cage when he poops. I'd say I am cleaning him about 3-4 times a week. Almost every other day.

One thing I have noticed, and I don't know if this has to do with the venom being digested along with the prey, but venomous snake poop STINKS. It's rank and powerful and enough to choke a donkey. My fiance thought maybe it's a way to mark their territory for other animals to know they are around, but why would a predator want to make its presence known?

[Gungirl]

You keep giving me more and more reasons on why I don't want to own hots.. lol I do however appreciate all the photo's of your amazing babies!!

[Will0W783]

It's not easy owning them. My arboreal vipers are a breeze to care for once they're set up properly. The Wagler's vipers have incredibly slow metabolic rates and only poop a few times a year. They also usually poop in water soaks so it is easy to clean up. My bush viper is also pretty slow as well, although she'd love to sink her fangs into me so I have to be very careful moving her.

Shelby is really the only one that's a pain in the butt, and I knew what I was getting into. Elapids have very high metabolic rates and are extremely intelligent, active snakes.

[Norm66]

I can't wait to get home and check out the videos. I'm a huge fan of Shelby. But I'm 100% with Kat on not wanting my own. :)

[alessia55]

He's such a messy eater :rolleyes: I love the third video. He's really hooding up a whole lot more nowadays that when you first got him.

[Lankyrob]

He is beautiful Willow :)

[Norm66]

That was awesome. Any chance of getting a striking video next time? Or does it just happen too fast to film properly?

[Rogue628]

I love Shelby and I'm a big fan of him. I doubt I'll ever own a hot, but honestly, I think hots in general are more beautiful than non venomous.

I really enjoy seeing pictures of yours! It allows me to live vicariously through you and that's good enough for me :)

Thank you for sharing!

[Will0W783]

Shelby doesn't really strike- he will, but I don't encourage it. He eats f/t and I just drop it in there. If I get him all worked up to strike his food he's a basket case for hours later hissing and carrying on. I generally try to upset him as little as possible- you want your hots to "trust" you, as it makes your life much easier and safer if they don't view you as a threat.

When I drop the food in, he just goes over, noses it and chows down. Sometimes he grabs it from the tongs before I have a chance to drop it though, lol. I can try to get a video of that, but it's lightning fast.

[beardeds4life]

I am so jealous. One day I think I will own hots but not for at least another 15+years when I have my own home and a REAL reptile room and someplace that even if one did get out if I have kids then there is no chance for them to get in the reptile room or the snakes to get out

[Norm66]

That's interesting. And of course makes total sense. I keep forgetting how much of a different deal hots are. But still, 'don't make the cobra angry' really isn't rocket surgery. ;)

[beardeds4life]

no i dont think it is

[Will0W783]

LOL, Norm! You know, you might think it's common sense to not make hots angry, but it's really something you have to consciously be aware of. Different things aggravate and rile up different snakes, and when you're dealing with pythons/boas, it's not generally a big deal to rile them up to eat. If you get tagged, oh well....you have a nice bite mark.
With venomous snakes, they don't have the same level or kind of interaction. You can't pick up your viper, cobra, or mamba to get them used to your presence and help them realize you aren't a predator. They get trapped in shift boxes, or grabbed with tongs or hooked, and even this as little as possible, so it's far harder for them to realize you are not a threat- the type of interaction one has to do with hots can be frightening for them.
I do not tong my hots- I feel it is too easy to injure a snake and it's got to be terrifying for them to be grabbed in what must feel like talons or jaws of a predator. I use shift boxes and hooks. I try to keep movements slow and methodical, and as gentle as possible.
But since you can't tame hots like you can a non-venomous snake, you have to be more aware of how every single action of yours is going to be interpreted by the snake. You have to think about how to make every situation and easy and calm for the snake as possible, while keeping yourself safe. It's not something that comes naturally to everyone, and it definitely needs to be honed through experience and training.

[Norm66]

I appreciate the insight Kim. :)

[Will0W783]

No problem. I'm nowhere near perfect at not pissing them off, but it's a philosophy I've heard from other skilled hots keepers and I try to keep it in mind. I figure it can't hurt to try to make my snakes as comfy as possible. :)

[GarterPython]

This might be kinda random ( I am random aot) but my sisters name is Shelby and it is actually her birthday today.

[Will0W783]

Haha, GarterPython, you should show her a picture of Shelby cobra! :-P

[GarterPython]

I think I will. I'll tell her that she should get a Shelby Cobras.
(she hates snakes espetially venomous ones)

[KD35WIN.AS.ONE]

KD, do your Naja get a frightful attitude for a good few hours after being fed?

Several naja i keep are incredibly high strung, If you approach their domain 9 times out of 10 if they are visible they welcome you with a full mouth gape, loud quick hisses, or spit.. Or sometimes a combination of all three which my pallida loves showing off...

http://i44.tinypic.com/dxckno.jpg

When i clean her cage which is quite more often then id like to.. I move her into an empty vision cage for awhile, she feels as this is her time to show to everyone how vile she can be. She leaves a nice coat of venom on the glass doors.

i hope you dont mind me posting my picture here, i dont want to make a thread, was really just sharing with you and the visitors to your thread.

[Norm66]

Do you have to be careful when cleaning the venom up? Or is it only dangerous when injected or on mucous membranes? Are latex gloves sufficient?

[Will0W783]

Wow, KD, that's a beautiful red spitter...with a lot of venom! Of course I don't mind you putting up pictures- I love seeing cobras of all kinds all the time. They have always fascinated me.

Shelby is odd with his attitude displays- he's a vile little turd when in his cage- hissing, dancing, lunging, and generally raising himself up as high as he can. He's gotten a third of his body standing straight up! But when I hook him to put him in the holding bin, he immediately chills out and acts simply curious and excited to be moving. I'd almost be more comfortable if he was vile on the hook, because I can predict that....but he's almost preternaturally calm on the hook and has never actually tried to bite me.....I'm waiting for it. I'm sure the day will come when he decides to rage on the hook.

[youngster]

That's way too nerve racking for me :)
I get scared of my 1.5 foot carpet when he gets mad ;)

[presspirate]

He's beautiful Kim! Having said that, owning him would scare the crap outta me!:O_o:

[KD35WIN.AS.ONE]

Do you have to be careful when cleaning the venom up? Or is it only dangerous when injected or on mucous membranes? Are latex gloves sufficient?

A cobra spitting its venom adds a whole new dimension to venomous snake keeping. Something nothing in herpetoculture can prepare someone for... good logic, routine and responsibility can not be forgotten. Venom should never be in contact with you as a person for any more amount of time then it should take you to wash it off. Venom can seep its way down into pores find its way into the smallest of cuts/abrasions. Latex gloves work well, prompt and proper disposal is very important.

[KD35WIN.AS.ONE]

Wow, KD, that's a beautiful red spitter...with a lot of venom! Of course I don't mind you putting up pictures- I love seeing cobras of all kinds all the time. They have always fascinated me.

Shelby is odd with his attitude displays- he's a vile little turd when in his cage- hissing, dancing, lunging, and generally raising himself up as high as he can. He's gotten a third of his body standing straight up! But when I hook him to put him in the holding bin, he immediately chills out and acts simply curious and excited to be moving. I'd almost be more comfortable if he was vile on the hook, because I can predict that....but he's almost preternaturally calm on the hook and has never actually tried to bite me.....I'm waiting for it. I'm sure the day will come when he decides to rage on the hook.


Thank you, i think so as well ill see if i can take a better picture of him next week. i need to find a camera, phone pictures dont come out well.
He has really vivid tear drops underneath both eyes.

Most yearling-sub adult kaouthia will act similar to Shelby. I have a kaouthia not any more than 8-10 months older then him who has recently calmed down alot within his cage. He is cooperates very well on a hook, just hoods up and stands his ground occasionally dropping his guard to the left or right but with any quick movement snaps right back up. Even into adult hood rarely will they make any aggressive gaping mouth attacks outside of the cage if following a normal routine.

[Will0W783]

That's why I went with a kaouthia. I have heard that they tend to be one of the more laid-back cobras and follow routines well. I don't underestimate him and never will....but I was very selective in which animal I picked from the litter based on their behavior. I read that kaouthia tend to go through a "terrible teen" phase where they are the most aggressive they will ever be and then calm down again as they enter maturity. Have you found this with your kaouthia?

[Will0W783]

Here are some new pictures of the little monster! He's hit three feet now and still growing like a weed. :)

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/18d3a253.jpg
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/0f1eddd0.jpg

[shaunyboy]

in that first picture he looks part machine,with those glowing eyes kimberly :shocked:

he's a gorgeous wee beasty pal :D

cheers shaun

[MoreliAddict]

He's looking good! I like the enclosure upgrade too.

[Norm66]

He looks great as always, but where's his tank? Has he outgrown it?

[Will0W783]

Thanks guys...yes, sadly he has outgrown his tank. He no longer fits underneath it and gets really upset when he tries to. I didn't want him to nose rub on it, so I removed it when I switched him to his bigger home. He now has a Boamaster trap box for a hide. When he's in the box, I just close and lock the door, so I can clean without having to tail him. Trap boxes are less stressful for him, and much safer for me!

[Will0W783]

in that first picture he looks part machine,with those glowing eyes kimberly

Thanks Shauny! I love that picture- I think he looks like a demon with hell-spawn eyes, lol. I used the flash so you could see the colors of his scales, and it reflected off his eyes. I'm so glad that he's holding his bright red-orange colors as he grows. A lot of albino kaouthia fade out into almost solid cream.

[BarelyBreathing]

The glowing eyes are a great touch. Hahaha

[Norm66]

Ah, too bad but it makes sense. I was kind of using the tank to judge his growth by but we all outgrow our childhood toys, even cobras. ;)

And of course anything you can do to make it safer to deal with him is better all around.

[CK SandBoas]

in that first picture he looks part machine,with those glowing eyes kimberly :shocked:

he's a gorgeous wee beasty pal :D

cheers shaun

I was going to say the same thing, he looks like the terminator with those eyes:D. What a stunning snake!

[MoreliAddict]

Thanks guys...yes, sadly he has outgrown his tank. He no longer fits underneath it and gets really upset when he tries to. I didn't want him to nose rub on it, so I removed it when I switched him to his bigger home. He now has a Boamaster trap box for a hide. When he's in the box, I just close and lock the door, so I can clean without having to tail him. Trap boxes are less stressful for him, and much safer for me!
That sounds like an awesome tool for owning a hot, especially a naja.

[Will0W783]

I love the boxes. I have one for him and one for the western diamondback rattler. She is just plain evil- now way would I try to hook/tail her. They are useless for arboreal hots though, as those guys just hide never venture to the ground to hide.

[Fredricks]

Simply incredible. I adore cobras and thanks for the pics, let's me live vicariously through you haha

[Will0W783]

You're welcome- I'm a very camera-happy keeper, lol.

[USMCgunner11]

Those pis are unreal. Crazy awesome

[Will0W783]

Thanks! :-)

[Rogue628]

More Shelby pics! I absolutely adore Shelby and love reading about your experience with him. :D Thanks for sharing with us! :)

I forgot....how old is he now? And what's an average size for these guys?

[millertime89]

wow, those eyes are just intense!

[alessia55]

Lots of Shelby photos coming up...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/alessia55/IMG_1113.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/alessia55/IMG_1119.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/alessia55/IMG_1121.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/alessia55/IMG_1137.jpg

Playing tug of war with Shelby's food

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/alessia55/IMG_1145.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/alessia55/IMG_1148.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/alessia55/IMG_1149.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/alessia55/IMG_1150.jpg

More coming...

[alessia55]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/alessia55/IMG_1151.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/alessia55/IMG_1153.jpg

Look at those little fangs!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/alessia55/IMG_1154.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/alessia55/IMG_1155.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/alessia55/IMG_1157.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/alessia55/IMG_1158.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/alessia55/IMG_1160.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/alessia55/IMG_1161.jpg

[Lankyrob]

I luvzz Shelby :) thanks for letting me own him vicariously ;)

[Will0W783]

Alessia, those photos look AWESOME!!! :-D

[KSTAR]

Shelby is outrageous

[MoreliAddict]

Shebly's definitely looking good with a bit more size on him. Thanks for the update.

[Rogue628]

Shelby's gotten bigger! Thanks for sharing the pics! Love me some Shelby :D

[Trollbie]

So jellie! Beautiful...

[Will0W783]

Yes, he's probably twice the length and thickness he was when I got him, and growing like a weed still. He was a year old April 17. He is pushing 3 feet long at the moment, and his dad was small (just under 4 feet long) so I am not sure how much bigger he will get. I am expecting him to end up 4-4.5 feet long.

[jaleely]

I just spent some time reading all about Shelby to my husband, and looking through the pics and vids. I just LOVE him!
Hubby wanted to know if you kept anti-venom around...and i think you addressed that somewhere along in these threads but i don't remember!
Do you, for any of them?
And..i love shelby!!!!

[Lankyrob]

No point keeping antivenom as A) it is extremely expensive B) the medics wont use soemthing that you own to treat you they will only use registered antivenom C) it goes out of date :)

[Will0W783]

Rob nailed it- I do not keep antivenim on hand. However, the Philadelphia zoo keeps several Naja species, and provides antivenin for cobra bites around the tri-state (PA, NJ, DE) area as well as MD. I do not intend to be bitten, but I do need to know my options if the worst were ever to occur. I have a plan in place- I keep a binder with a species account, treatment protocol, and description of symptoms/progression for each species I own, along with a copy of my medical records and insurance cards in the snake room. This binder is always accessible, and John and I both know where it is, so that, if one of us were to take a bite, we can grab the binder and rush to the hospital.

Generally speaking, for the keepers who do keep antivenin, they can use it. They have to give it to themselves though. You can ask the medics to help you administer your own medicine. It sometimes can be a fight though.


A vial of antivenin may cost $50-250. A typical bite for most species requires 4-10 vials, sometimes more. Furthermore, once you get through all the paperwork required to import, license, and store your own antivenin, you are upwards of $1000 per vial. The lifespan of a vial is around 3 years. So, you'd need to have at least 10 vials on hand, say it was $1000 per vial, you're already in it $10,000. And you'd have to renew that every 3-5 years, so you are guaranteeing you will spend a minimum of $40-60,0000 over the snake's expected ~20-year lifespan to keep antivenin. A hospital trip for a bite might cost you $40-100,000 but if you are careful and take proper precautions, you should not be bitten.

[Will0W783]

The wooden box in the pictures with Shelby is his trap/shift box. I no longer hook/tail him as he's getting big for it and it's a risk I don't need to take. Shelby also loves to musk and poo all over me.

With the box, it is his hide. It is the only thing provided in his cage for him to hide in; therefore he spends a large portion of his time in it. When I need to clean his cage, I wait until he is in the box, glove up and use a long hook to close the trap door and hold it shut while I lock it. Then the box can be safely removed from the cage and I can clean, change water, do whatever I need to do. When I'm done, I put the box back in, use the hook to hold the door shut while I unlock it, stand back and open the door to the box, then quickly shut the cage door. At all times I am holding the hook with my arm fully extended, putting any exposed skin 5 feet away from Shelby. I wear the Venom Defender gauntlet gloves to protect my hands and lower arms. This procedure is a bit more time-consuming, but it's far less stressful for Shelby and far safer for me.

I use the same procedure with the rattlesnake. Arboreal vipers do not use hide boxes, but they are small enough that they can be safely maneuvered on two hooks.

[shaunyboy]

i know you had a great mentor and have trained hard but.....

your a braver person than i kimberly,theres no way i'd have the courage,to handle venomous using 2 hooks pal ;)

kudo's

cheers shaun

[Will0W783]

Shaun, I'd never do that with Shelby or the rattler, but the tree vipers cling on to a hook like it's a branch, and I use the second hook to keep them down at the end away from my hands. They're actually not too bad most days. I've had a few harrowing sessions with the bush viper (she hates everything that exists), but the Wagler's and eyelashes are generally placid and tractable.

You just have to have quick reflexes and be in total, 100% concentration on the snake. No distractions. :)

[AjaMichelle]

Shelby is beautiful! What a lucky guy to have such a good home. :)

[Will0W783]

Thank you AjaMichelle. :)

[Will0W783]

I got a few shots of Shelby that I think are pretty neat. He's enjoying his new, 4' x 2' cage. He was hooded up with the light behind him and it just made his hood glow. It's a bit hard to make out the details, but I really like the "evil, glowing cobra" effect. :)

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/37bf1af2.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/ac54c539.jpg

[Will0W783]

He's about 3 feet now and getting thicker all the time. He's definitely getting the stocky adult build of a Naja. Despite their insanely fast-for-a-serpent metabolism, the true cobras are thick, muscular snakes with a stockier build than you'd imagine.

Shelby eats 1-2 small rats every week and a half. If he gets one rat, I feed him again 7 days later. About every 4-5 meals, I'll give him two rats, but then he doesn't get fed again for two weeks. I am trying to simulate some variation in his feeding like he'd find in the wild. He also gets a bit too excited on a set schedule, because he figures out when it's time for food again, and good luck getting him into his box to do any cage maintenance!!


On a good note, he seems to be calming back down a bit again, so I'm hoping that I'm beginning to see his eventual adult attitude. He hasn't been hooding a lot, but instead has been cruising rapidly around his cage and pressing his face against the door whenever I'm in the room. He's figured out that there is a small gap (maybe 1mm) between the door and door frame of his cage and has learned to flick his tongue right through the gap. It's funny....I just keep seeing a pink flicker jutting out of the cage. Silly boy.

[MoreliAddict]

Is this update per my request earlier? He looks great, Kim. And as I think I've said to you before, you have really good taste in snakes.

Also, shoot some pics of him outside the enclosure next time so you don't get that reflection in front of him.

[alessia55]

Shelby is look great :cool: Thanks for the update!! You should make a feeding video some time :yes:

[RobsCornField]

Such a cutie! I will own one of these guys someday... Just not at the moment.

[Rogue628]

I <3 Shelby. Enough said :D

[Will0W783]

Shelby doesn't really come out of his enclosure, except in the trap box. I don't handle my hots unless it is absolutely necessary. The pictures where you can't see a reflection were taken by Alessia through the glass of the door- she has software to remove the glare. I am not a great photographer and all I have is my crummy phone camera, so it's hard to get better pictures. Shelbs is crafty and would likely take off if I tried to take pictures with the door open. He wants out to explore, but he can't be trusted. He is a cobra after all, regardless of how cute and innocent he tries to act. lol.

[MoreliAddict]

Wouldn't you get a clear shot of him when you open the enclosure for feeding? Have someone stand by for that.

EDIT: I see you did this back a page :) thanks for the update!