Planning

[bigsnakegirl785]

So, I was planning on getting another snake in a year or two. I was looking into Dumeril's and rosy boas. I've looked up several care sheets on them, but I was asking to find additional info and set false info straight. I'd like to know stuff like tank set-up (bedding, humidity, temp etc.), temperament and any special info that I might need. Thanks for helping!

[marvelfreak]

Rosy need no humidity were Dumeril's need a humidity level around 50% to 75%. Dumeril's get quite a bit bigger and heavier than Rosie's. For bedding i use Reptile Bark for my Dumeril. I have a buddy with a Rosy and he uses Peat Moss. Temp wise he keeps his Rosy 75 low side and 89 hot side. My Dumeril i keep low side at 72 hot at 88. The only time i see my Dumeril on the hot side is after he eats. with my Dumeril i mist lightly once a day. I keep him in a tub. Makes it easier to keep the humidity up.

[bigsnakegirl785]

I read something on Dumeril's that they hide under the substrate and attack from below, not to wave your hand above them. They were unclear on whether they do that all the time or just when hunting, but the way they were wording it it sounded like it's only when hunting. Could you tell me if it's only when hunting or just all the time?

[Lankyrob]

Most snakes are wary about anything approaching from above as a lot of young snakes are taken by birds in the wild - always try to approach from floor level.

[snake man12]

Dumerils boas are great choices they are usually pretty nice and calm. They have a beautiful pattern. They max at around 6 or 7 feet

[marvelfreak]

I read something on Dumeril's that they hide under the substrate and attack from below, not to wave your hand above them. They were unclear on whether they do that all the time or just when hunting, but the way they were wording it it sounded like it's only when hunting. Could you tell me if it's only when hunting or just all the time?
Mine only does it when he smells food. So i say it's a hunting thing. Any other time i can reach right in and pick him up.

[CDN_Blood]

It's nice to see people thinking it-out instead of just jumping into a purchase :)

First, I have to say that anyone who goes around waving their hands in front of a snake pretty much deserves whatever comes next. Treat your snakes with a little respect and they'll usually return the favour. Act the fool and they're likely to issue a reminder of who really wears the pants in the relationship, so to speak.

Rosy boas are great fun, with very basic needs. I'd recommend one almost any day if small and manageable is what you're looking for.

Comparing a Dumeril's boa to a Rosy is like comparing apples to...watermelons. Dums get large and although they tend to be very placid animals, some are a little cage aggressive, so if you combine their large size and power with the odd case of cage aggression or food aggression, you do need to know what you're doing.

I think Dumeril's are one of those snakes that are constantly underestimated in the size department. Don't forget, these haven't been in captivity all that long, so we're only now seeing how much bigger captives get in comparison to 10 years ago when they were almost all wild-caught animals.

Case in point - this one is only 4 years old and still growing like a weed...

http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb347/CDN_Blood/IMG_1555.jpg

[jarich]

Great looking snake! I really do love the patterns on Dums

[millertime89]

Wow! That Dum is getting big! I wonder what they'll top out at in captivity.

[alessia55]

Like Todd said, rosy boas and dumeril boas are totally different. A rosy boa can live comfortably in a 15-20gal as an adult, whereas a dumeril boa will need a much larger enclosure. A rosy boa will only get 2-3ft long, whereas a dumeril boa will get very large (see Todd's photo). Their basic needs (temps, humidity, etc) are different too. I would trust a child to hold a rosy boa, but not to hold a dumeril boa. You'll be able to easily hold a rosy boa with one hand when it's an adult, which is not the case with dumeril boas (unless you're like Todd who apparently is really strong, holding up a dumeril boa with one hand lol!!). If a rosy boa bites you, it won't really hurt; get bit by a dumeril and you might have something to complain about. A rosy boa will typically eat small mice as an adult, whereas a dumeril will probably get big enough to eat small rabbits (correct me if I'm wrong, dumeril experts).

That being said, you could also buy one of each! :p :p :p

[CDN_Blood]

Well said, Alessia. I couldn't have said it better myself...in that few words, anyhow, haha :)

[bigsnakegirl785]

About the hand thing, I was just checking so that I could know to keep my hand far away if I was to go change the water or clean out the substrate. I don't wave my hands above or around my snakes. I normally move slowly and let them flick their tongue on my hand if they feel the need. I've never dove in and grabbed my without any warning. What is the length that rosy boas get to? I'd like something a bit bigger than a BP.

[alessia55]

About the hand thing, I was just checking so that I could know to keep my hand far away if I was to go change the water or clean out the substrate. I don't wave my hands above or around my snakes. I normally move slowly and let them flick their tongue on my hand if they feel the need. I've never dove in and grabbed my without any warning. What is the length that rosy boas get to? I'd like something a bit bigger than a BP.

Rosy boas will generally stay much smaller than ball pythons. As far as length, female rosy boas will get to be 2-3 feet, and males usually not more than 2ft long. But as far as girth, rosies are much, much slimmer. As an adult rosy, you'll easily be able to wrap your hand around her body, whereas I can't wrap my hand around the body of my ball python. So, rosy boas in general are SMALLER than ball pythons.

[CDN_Blood]

I'd suggest a Rainbow Boa, but they only get longer than your average Royal Python, certainly not heavier. They are, however, an excellent and often underrated alternative to a larger species such as a Boa Constrictor. A 5 foot Rainbow is very manageable and usually more comfortable being handled than a lot of Rosy Boas are. I've noticed that Rosy Boas don't particularly enjoy being handled for any length of time. They're a rather terrestrial type of snake and wouldn't normally climb much in the wild, so they can sometimes be a little nervous being handled, whereas Rainbows are equally at home on the ground or climbing. Just a thought.

There are a lot of factors that go in to making a decision like this, but I'm glad to see you're weighing your options before you get something. If only more people would do that ;)

[millertime89]

I love my little rainbow, and prices aren't bad either, at expo's I've been seeing them for 70-150 depending on the coloration and morph. (there aren't many)

[alessia55]

I'd also recommend going to an expo and getting to see the different snakes available, talking to the breeders, and seeing first-hand what seems to be what you're looking for. You'll also get to see other snakes besides dumeril and rosy boas, and you might find that you discover a differerent snake suits you better. Expos can be a great place. It's even better if you can go with someone who's more knowledgeable about different snakes to teach you along the way. I know you already have 2 snakes, but if you're unsure about a rosy boa, dumeril boa, brazilian rainbow boa... maybe your questions will get answered when you see the snakes in person and get some first-hand experience :)

[millertime89]

took my brother to the one on sunday, he asked me all sorts of questions, and what I couldn't answer, the breeders were more than happy to.

[CDN_Blood]

And I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum in that you couldn't pay me enough to go to an Expo get a snake from a breeder, lol. I don't want to confuse the matter, just offering a different perspective ;)

[millertime89]

And I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum in that you couldn't pay me enough to go to an Expo get a snake from a breeder, lol. I don't want to confuse the matter, just offering a different perspective ;)

I'm curious, why?

[youngster]

Yeah I'm curious too, it seems like you can't go wrong at an expo.

You get to talk to the breeders, hold the snakes, have a huge variety...

[alessia55]

Yeah I'm curious too, it seems like you can't go wrong at an expo.

You get to talk to the breeders, hold the snakes, have a huge variety...

Things can go wrong at an expo... You just have to be really, really careful. I learned the hard way (http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/erycines/88889-sick-rosy-boa.html)...

Don't assume the breeder you are dealing with has a good reputation. Look at every aspect of the animal. If you can, have a friend help you and open the mouth of the animal to check for any RI or mouth rot, check the snake's eyes, nostrils, and body movement. Pick a snake that looks and acts healthy, active, and alert. Ask the breeder about their return & exchange policy. A good breeder will be willing and able to work with you. And always make sure you get their business card, name, phone number, e-mail address, and any other information they're willing to give you. They should be happy to address all your questions. Make sure to ask about the snake's eating habits, behavior, and if the animal has any history of health issues. Especially if you see that a snake is marked down incredibly to an unbelievable price, make sure you know what you're getting into.

But! I do believe that expos can be a really great place to see a variety of animals, and find that perfect one for you. I bought my wonderful albino ball python at an expo- and I would never deter anyone from going to one or buying from one. I myself frequent reptile expos almost every month, so I by no means want to give you the idea that expos are a bad place. For the most part they're a wonderful place and you'll meet great breeders. You just need to be careful :)

[CDN_Blood]

I just can't condone reptile expos. No other group of animals is treated so poorly. These reptiles are put under stressful conditions and displayed like trading cards for everyone to poke and prod, handle and mishandle, infect and be infected. If they were cats or dogs instead of reptiles, do you think it would be acceptable? Have you ever seen a cat or dog expo? Even if those cages were filled with what most people consider vermin, such as rats, would you be so comfortable with it? Think about that.

Then there is the whole ugly business that Alessia mentions about sick animals and disreputable breeders. Oh man, don't get me started on *that*, lol. Just because someone attaches 'Breeder' to their name doesn't mean they're reputable, experienced or even knowledgable by any means. Most (not all) of those types are strictly out to fill their pockets with the hard-earned cash of those who don't' know any better and really don't give a damn about the animals at all.

I've been in this game for a long time and have seen the entire scene change so radically over the years that it sickens me, but I have to say the ultimate in unethical really does have to be reptile expos, in my opinion. I really have to question the ethics of both the vendors and the patrons. I know I'm in the minority with my opinion, but there it is; you asked, I responded ;)

[Gungirl]

I just can't condone reptile expos. No other group of animals is treated so poorly. These reptiles are put under stressful conditions and displayed like trading cards for everyone to poke and prod, handle and mishandle, infect and be infected. If they were cats or dogs instead of reptiles, do you think it would be acceptable? Have you ever seen a cat or dog expo? Even if those cages were filled with what most people consider vermin, such as rats, would you be so comfortable with it? Think about that.

Then there is the whole ugly business that Alessia mentions about sick animals and disreputable breeders. Oh man, don't get me started on *that*, lol. Just because someone attaches 'Breeder' to their name doesn't mean they're reputable, experienced or even knowledgable by any means. Most (not all) of those types are strictly out to fill their pockets with the hard-earned cash of those who don't' know any better and really don't give a damn about the animals at all.

I've been in this game for a long time and have seen the entire scene change so radically over the years that it sickens me, but I have to say the ultimate in unethical really does have to be reptile expos, in my opinion. I really have to question the ethics of both the vendors and the patrons. I know I'm in the minority with my opinion, but there it is; you asked, I responded ;)


I have to say that you said that all VERY well. I felt really bad for the animals at the last expo I went to. I love seeing all the different kinds but looking at them in tiny clear cases/dishes was very sad. You kind of reminded me about all the things I hated about expo's and the reason why I passed up on going to a few. I want to go and see the animals but not in those conditions.

[bigsnakegirl785]

I might get a rainbow boa, I'll look at some other snakes too in the meantime. I like snakes that don't mind to be held for half an hour to an hour, but I've got one snake that's always ready to be taken out and one that gets into everything. lol

[CDN_Blood]

Thanks, Kat. I don't want to derail this thread or open a can of worms, I just wanted to point out that not everyone agrees with the idea of getting a herp from a breeder or an expo.

I'd look through things like local want ads if I was thinking of getting a new snake. At least with private individuals selling their own animals, they've usually had enough time to actually observe the animal, know it's personality and it's quirks, it's history and generally care about it more than someone who's working with reptiles on a large scale. I'd consider it a much safer bet and there are always tons of them looking for a good home in the classifieds.

[lady_bug87]

Thanks, Kat. I don't want to derail this thread or open a can of worms, I just wanted to point out that not everyone agrees with the idea of getting a herp from a breeder or an expo.

I'd look through things like local want ads if I was thinking of getting a new snake. At least with private individuals selling their own animals, they've usually had enough time to actually observe the animal, know it's personality and it's quirks, it's history and generally care about it more than someone who's working with reptiles on a large scale. I'd consider it a much safer bet and there are always tons of them looking for a good home in the classifieds.


I've read some pretty horrible animal conditions in want ads too. 4ft red tails in 40 gal tanks with sand as a substrate, pictures where you can clearly see retained eye caps etc..

I got my boa from a breeder at the last expo I was at and from what I saw his animals were treated well the breeder I got mine from had them in decent sized containers and they were all under heat lamps people weren't allowed to handle his hatchlings but he had sub adults in the same line that he would let some handle my husband being one of them since we were buying one of its offspring but I agree some of those animals were treated poorly in fact the reason I bought my boa from that specific breeder is that he was the source of my GTP which I bought from my reptile supplier who I trust he has only sold me amazing quality animals and feeders.

again not to derail the thread but I believe that there are good quality animals and breeders at expos who treat their animals well and are SUPER experienced so to bunch them in with the douche bags might be a little unfair

[millertime89]

again not to derail the thread but I believe that there are good quality animals and breeders at expos who treat their animals well and are SUPER experienced so to bunch them in with the douche bags might be a little unfair

^this, speak with the breeder, ask for pictures. Travis Kubes is one who has really impressed me. He had pictures of all the parents of his SD retics as well as their enclosures back home, and they were all in enclosures that, although cramped, gave them some room to move around. He's just one that comes to mind. I've seen it both ways, the last expo I was at, every breeder had hand sanitizer and required you to use it both before and after handling their reptiles.

I do respect your position and thank you for sharing your reasoning, that's better than most people can do.

[bigsnakegirl785]

I went to a small-business pet store today and was looking at their IJ carpets. They had 3 babies and a larger one I'm guessing is 5 ft, but I'm no good at guessing length. The carpet was really cool, even though I don't like really active snakes much. The carpet was grabbing onto everything. I know they get really big and kinda nippy, but I'm used to getting hurt. Mostly bites from cats lol. I've only been bit by a snake once, it was either a wild black rat snake or a racer. It left four teeth in my finger, two I got out with tweezers the other two were too deep so they camped out in my flesh for three weeks (I even tried to cut them out, but no use.). Besides, I bet I could find a relatively docile one if I look hard enough. So, if someone give me some info on carpets and rainbows also, I'd be happy. I know I'm going all across the "care spectrum" but it's ok as long as I'm willing to properly take care of them. Which of course I'm not I won't get it. I'll still be looking at other species to see if there's anything else I'd like better, but it doesn't hurt to get as much info as possible on many different species. lol

[millertime89]

IJs usually top out around 5-7 ft and they're usually only nippy when young.

My rainbow is super docile and he's only a 6 months old at the oldest. Never nipped, never even open-mouth struck at me. He eats like a champ and is super easy to care for IMO.

[bigsnakegirl785]

How common are IJ's? What are the other carpets like? And their approx. price range?

[millertime89]

they're all pretty common, just gotta know where to look. Last expo I was at there was a CBB IJ baby for 80, other carpets of similar age ranged from 40 (jag siblings) to 200+ (pure diamonds and jags)

[millertime89]

size can get up to 10 for the common ones, certain species can get massive though. Scrubs can hit 18.

[stephanbakir]

Scrubs aren't carpet pythons :P a scrub python is an amethystine python.

[millertime89]

Scrubs aren't carpet pythons :P a scrub python is an amethystine python.

eh, they're morelia, but then again, so are GTPs...