question for venomous snake owners

[Snakefood]

I am fairly new to the forum and haven't even brought home my first snake yet (a blizzard corn) But I was just wondering if the venomous snakes you all keep have had thier venom glands removed, or could they actually kill (for lack of a better term) you??

One of those lingering questions that pops into my head everytime I see a member with venomous snakes!!!:yes:

[youngster]

I don't any (obviously :P) but I'm pretty sure no one here does that. I think it's pretty cruel.

[Gungirl]

I think that its cruel and inhuman besides the fact the snake can re grow its glands. If you want to own hots you take the risk you don't rip out the snakes glands so that you can lack knowledge and skill to own them.

[KD35WIN.AS.ONE]

I am fairly new to the forum and haven't even brought home my first snake yet (a blizzard corn) But I was just wondering if the venomous snakes you all keep have had thier venom glands removed, or could they actually kill (for lack of a better term) you??

One of those lingering questions that pops into my head everytime I see a member with venomous snakes!!!:yes:


Venomous snakes with the venom glands removed are venomoids. They are commonly used for educational purposes to present a less of a risk to the keeper due to the large increase in handling. All of the snakes i personally keep and the ones i work with have there venom glands intact. Some do present the risk to under the right circumstances inflict fatal bites. With proper consul and protocol it lessens the risk of death being a result from a bite. But it doesn't in any way make it safe. No one knows how you will react to the venom, bites from some species Ophiophagus hannah or King Cobra have caused fatal bites in 10 minutes.

I dont personally agree with venomoids being kept as display animals, but i just agree to disagree. Done correctly by and experienced physician it doesn't do any harm, and they carry out normal lives.

[Will0W783]

There's a LOT of controversy surrounding venomoids (venomous snakes that have have had their glands removed).

First of all, there is debate as to whether the venom is needed for the snake to digest properly. Venom is, after all, modified saliva, and the hemotoxic and cytotoxic components definitely do break down tissue. There simply aren't any old enough venomoids to really make conclusions. Many venomoids are said to die younger than their intact counterparts, but is this due to complications such as infection from the surgery site, improperly done surgeries, or bad husbandry practices? We just don't know yet.

All venomoids HAVE to be fed frozen/thawed or pre-killed prey. They have lost their only defense: venom, and therefore cannot subdue live prey. This can be problematic as some snakes are difficult feeders.

The surgery is not 100%... reptiles have amazing regenerative properties- ever see a lizard regrow its tail? If even one cell of gland and/or duct tissue is left behind, the snake can regrow the venom apparatus and become venomous again. More than one keeper has died or suffered severe injury after being tagged by a venomoid and shrugging it off. Due to this, you absolutely HAVE TO treat a venomoid just as you would its intact counterparts. My personal feeling is that if you aren't willing and ready to take the risk of owning an intact hot, you are not ready for a venomoid either.

Many places do not have a licensed veterinarian perform the operation, nor do they use pain medication afterwards. If no silicone implant is placed where the gland was removed from, the reptile's cheeks and head will sag and lead to permanent disfigurement.

A venomoid will also be a significant investment compared to an intact member of the same species. For example, one can purchase a CBB Agkistrodon contotrix (copperhead) at a reptile show for $35-70, but a venomoid copperhead will cost you $350-500 from Venomoid, Inc. (This is the only company who seems to have any regard at all for the snakes, and the jury's still out on this one). Investing that much money in an animal that may be more susceptible to illness, malnutrition, and premature death, when one could get the hots training and buy an intact member for a 1/10 of the cost in many cases, seems to me to be cause for thought and careful contemplation.

With all of these facts considered, I personally do not feel it's worth it to devenomize a snake. Some people who are using them for educational purposes, and go through a major company who uses licensed veterinarians, implants and pain management (Venomoid, Inc)...I can sort of see. But for the average personal collection, it's just not worth risking the animal's health and comfort.

That being said, if I came across someone adopting out a venomoid they'd had in their collection, I would consider it. I just would not personally pay for having the operation done myself.

[Snakefood]

Really just a curiosity on my part, I have no intention of ever keeping a venomous snake, intact glands or no. I am an incessant worry-wart, so having such a creature in my home would mean I'd never sleep again!! I think I will personally stick to Corns and BP's myself. I was just wondering!!

So what precautions do you take in owning/handling these species? Do you always have an on-hand supply of anti-venom? Or just live really close to a hospital?!!

[KD35WIN.AS.ONE]

Really just a curiosity on my part, I have no intention of ever keeping a venomous snake, intact glands or no. I am an incessant worry-wart, so having such a creature in my home would mean I'd never sleep again!! I think I will personally stick to Corns and BP's myself. I was just wondering!!

So what precautions do you take in owning/handling these species? Do you always have an on-hand supply of anti-venom? Or just live really close to a hospital?!!

In general to be a responsible venomous snake keeper outside of profession, you need to have a proper protocol on hand at the location you keep venomous snakes. Up to date containing every species of venomous snake you own. In the event of envenomation you must already have contacts in place and consultants to treat your case. (meaning you need to have a mutual relationship with someone that can be contacted with a supply of anti venom that can get to a local hospital in 20-40 minutes. A consultant being a physician or someone with knowledge on how to treat the bite and what symptoms to look for.) Relying on a local zoo or university for antivenom is not the responsible protocol. And for exotic species its going to cost upwards $15,000 for a minor bite with out any protocol set up for antivenom and its transport.

[Snakefood]

wow, that's a crazy amount of $$!!!! Here in Canada we don't pay extra for life-saving treatment, only for "optional" treatments, however, the chance of my local hospital having anti-venom on hand is probably very small. The only venomous snake in BC is the rattler and only in southern BC!! (I'm pretty much on the coast so we don't even have rattlers just harmless little Gardener snakes!!)

[youngster]

harmless little Gardener snakes!!

*Garter, sorry I'm a little OCD about that :P

[Snakefood]

hehehe, I thought I was saying it wrong, but my brain WOULD NOT come up with the word I wanted!!!!

[stephanbakir]

wow, that's a crazy amount of $$!!!! Here in Canada we don't pay extra for life-saving treatment, only for "optional" treatments, however, the chance of my local hospital having anti-venom on hand is probably very small. The only venomous snake in BC is the rattler and only in southern BC!! (I'm pretty much on the coast so we don't even have rattlers just harmless little Gardener snakes!!)
Keep in mind that even in Canada, if you get bitten by a venomous snake that is privately owned, you or the owner will need to pay every penny of those medical bills.

[Snakefood]

Keep in mind that even in Canada, if you get bitten by a venomous snake that is privately owned, you or the owner will need to pay every penny of those medical bills.

No worries there!! I have no intention of purposely putting any of me anywhere near a venomous creature!!

[stephanbakir]

Not that I condone touching them with any part of your body, hooks are always best. I can honestly say that I have a soft spot for most elapids, and Gila monsters/komodos.

[Snakefood]

There are just certain animals I would prefer to admire from afar. Very far! Beautiful as they may be!!

[stephanbakir]

Luckily, they invented terrariums and vivariums and you can view them through glass/plexi now :)

[Snakefood]

That suits my comfort level JUST FINE!!