Dry ice,help please?

[Tim R.]

Anyone know how long to leave rats in with dry ice in say a 25 gallon size container?

[Linds]

It should only take a few minutes, but to be safe you can leave them in for 15 :)

[Dom]

Personally, I would find an other way of putting your rat "down" ..

In my opinion, dry ice is defenetly not a humane way of doing it ..

[Linds]

Dom: Why do you say that? It renders them unconscious before it kills them. It is the MOST humane method. It is the only actual "approved" method. They feel <u>no</u> pain. Even with cervical snapping, you dont know if that will do it... remember what happened to superman (christopher reeves i think his name)?

[Dom]

I say this because I've seen many ppl do it to their rats and mice .. (using co2 also) and they do not die or become unconcious right away it akes anywhere from 5 to 30 seconds and to me that is way to much..

I know many ppl use this method and its "considered" to be one of the most humane method out there but in my oppinion.. I disagree completly.

After seing it .. I can garantee you i would never ever do that to my rats.. Its a quick death but not a painless death..

The only advantage it has is you can put down as many rats at a time and or the "human" killing them .. its extremely easy on them ..

Neway .. just my two cents ..

Linds: Do you use dry ice? Have you ever seen it happen..

[Jezabel]

I used to work in a lab with mice and we were using the co2 methode. When properly done, it dosen't take more then 5 second. I never try that at home cause I don't have the equipment to do this but, I guess when it take 30sec, it's not done as it supose to be.

I never use dry ice either so I can't talk about it. Maybe, since the ice need to change in co2 and the gaz is less "concentrate" in the air, that why it take more time.

I'm sure there's no study on wheter is more humane to gas them or snap their neck cause, as you said, the co2 methode is use to kill more at the same time and that waut they need in lab. But I still wander what's the best between the two. I've try to snap their neck a few time but I wasn't doint this the right way (even if I pratice on dead before), so I stop.

[Grant vg]

I've attempted to snap there neck too...but have been unsuccessful everytime...:(
Considering i havn't been able to get my hands on dry ice or co2 tanks, i usually resort to whackin there heads 20 times or so....
The rats i breed seem to be much stronger then the petshop rats seeing that those always took two wacks or so.
I feel kinda bad when they just wont die...but truthfully i dont feel much for the little buggers.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Why would anyone mess around with dry ice when you can just buy a cannister of CO2? No need to mickey mouse around with dry ice. I don't get it?

[Dom]

CO2 is way better than dry ice .. I personally have no problem with using that ..

As for cervical snaping .. true at first its hard to get it right ..

but once u get it .. the rat dies instantly and does not even twich at all ..

Unfortunate to say but after doing a couple of hundreds even a thousand .. I got the hang of it..

For the new borns though I can't use that method so wacking or simply squishin there skull with two fingers is my method ..

I know it sounds barbaric but in my oppinion if u got no brain then u can not feel pain .. so it might be harder for us to do that but its better on the rats .. so they come first!

[Jezabel]

Now I just put them in a pillow case and wack them as hard as I can on the ciment floor. I never have anything moving after 1 wack. But sometimes it's too much...I did open a few rat that way. It's gross but at least they're dead.

But I find a good place that sell frozen anyway. I just need to get those bp to eat f/t!!! Well, I'm gonna have to make them eating again first....

[Wrath]

You squish the pinkies' brains out with your fingers!?!? <shakes head violently> nonono, I cannot do that. What was that someone was saying about a co2 canister?

[Linds]

Jeff_Favelle: I posted earlier that I was looking to buy CO2 tanks but did not know where. All I was able to locate were the small cartridges, and I fear if I even so much attempt to poop one I'll blow off my fingers :eek: Where can you get the "good kind" that have nozzles on them?

Dom: Jezabel is correct. If done <u>correctly</u> it should be instantaneous... worse case you should get no more than 4 "spasms" before they are gone (but usually only one - and spasms do not necessarily mean pain).

[Dom]

Its your choice .. i mean do what you want .. I just think dry ice is not only not humane but actually cruel ..

Put your hands on the dry ice .. tell me how it feels ..

Not put your whole body on it until u die .. say what u want if u use only dry ice .. is so f*ckan cruel ..

I know some ppl who use co2 to put them down then the dry ice .. now that is fine but simple dry ice .. whatever way .. I don't say how one could do it humaly

Just my 2 cents .. but i stand by them

[Jezabel]

I thought when people use dry ice to kill feeder, they don't put the rat in the ice but in a separate container and let it evaporate to create co2. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Wrath]

So, what about the CO2.....everyone seems to agree that that's a more humane way. What do you do? Just spray the mouse/rat? I think not. Can someone explain how exactly the CO2 is to be used to take out the poor mouseys?

I feed mine pinkys and I know that everyone's going to freak out to know that I feel them live. They don't do anything, just scraggle around....but if I find out how to use this CO2, I will give it a go!

[Linds]

Dom: Who puts them on the dry ice! That's totally wrong way to do it. No wonder you think its cruel! :eek: Your supposed to put it in a separate container and wait for the gas to build up in a differetn container then drop the rodents in when it is built up enough. Yikes....I would never put anything on dry ice!!! That's awful!!!

[Jeff_Favelle]

Email Ian (he's a poster here) and he'll tell you how to use and where to get C02.

[Jezabel]

Wrath: You can't use co2 with pinky, it has no effect on them. I think their lung are too small. I don't think nobody will freak that you give them live. They can't do any harm (unless they has internal parasite). The problem in when the snake eat bigger. Even a hopper can give a good bite if it's at the right place.

[Markus Jayne]

I breed and kill off a lot of rats. When I first started I went the dry ice route. Contrary to a previous post, The rats never touch the dry ice. I would boil a cup of water and place the cup in the middle of a large Rubbermaid with my rats. I'd then throw in a small handful of dry ice. It would then boil like a witches cauldron converting the dry ice into co2. I'd put the lid on (not tight) and the rats would be dead within seconds.

The only problem I found with this method is that the rats would get somewhat wet.

I soon converted over to a co2 cannister and used straight co2. I purchased it at a welding supply shop. They are not cheap. My unit cost around $250 including valves and hose.

Now I simply place the rats in the same rubbermaid, place on the lid and feed a small hose through a hole on the lid. I turn it on and basically the co2 displaces the oxygen which floats to the top and the rats die quickly. Also the rats are dry as toast.

Very humane and very clean. No blood or brain mash.

[Dom]

Thats a great way Markus .. but If i had an extra 250$ I doubt I would spent it on a setup like that ..

Id rather buy myself a new snake!

Althought i wish I had it~!

[Jeff_Favelle]

That's the way Ian and everyone else I know does it. Only way to do it actually. I've been to Ian's and helped him conk 500 adult rats, and believe me its not fun!! The way he does it (same as Mark), it takes minutes. Waaaayyyy better.

[Wrath]

But what size tank is necessary? I mean, if we don't want to go and refill it all the time, how big of one do you need? Or are 'tank' and 'canister' two different things?

20lb?

How much does your tank hold, Markus; and how 'bout your friend Jeff?

I'm just full of questions, arent I? :bsmile:

[Ian]

A 5LB tank is fine and like I said to Linds is go to a place that sells fire extinguishers. Then you've got to buy a regulator and that's it. How long the tank lasts depends how many mice you're killing and what size of a container that you use. Use a ice cream bucket if you're doing a small amount. This way a 5LB tank will last for months. Plus it only costs $10.00 to fill. A fire extinguisher place selss used ones for around $50-70 and the regulator costs about $60-70. Then all you need is a little hose.

Hope this helps ;)

[Markus Jayne]

I just went and looked at it and it doesn't say what size it is. It is about 2.5 ft. high and 8 inches in diameter. When I last had it filled it had 1500 psi in it if that means anything. It has lasted me about 6 months and I kill euthanize once a week.

I know you can get smaller tanks. The tanks are fairly affordable. The controls are whats expensive.

Hope this helps.

Mark

[Grant vg]

Whats this regulator/controls talk all about???

[Ian]

Just like diving you need to control the amount of CO2 coming from the tank so you use a regulator. Just like the ones you use for draft beer lines and welding equipment. The pressure in these tanks is too much just to hookup to a container. It also lets you know how much is left in the tank. You don't want to run out half way though.

[Grant vg]

thanks!