Getting a new guy: 1 pic (more coming soon)

[Sithis]

So as many of you know I have Fluffy... I am about to add a new friend after careful consideration. I have decided to get a Naja Kaouthia (Monocled cobra) it is a male adult 6 years old and has a clean bill of health.
I only have one available pic but after I get him I will have plenty more. My source will remain undisclosed for fear that some idiot will ask me to get him in touch with them.
I will not tell people where they can buy an animal that will kill them.
Anyway here he is.

[Ch^4]

Beautiful snake! I wish I had the "kahoonas" to own a hot...

[Aaron_S]

...My source will remain undisclosed for fear that some idiot will ask me to get him in touch with them....

Don't worry someone already did.


Beautiful snake though.

[infernalis]

That looks like an albino. Gorgeous.

[Sithis]

Originally Posted by Sithis View Post
...My source will remain undisclosed for fear that some idiot will ask me to get him in touch with them....
Don't worry someone already did.


Beautiful snake though.

Nope this snake is not a contact that Randy Rhoads mentioning.
You forgot to add the part when I said "I will not tell people where they can buy an animal that will kill them."

[Sithis]

That looks like an albino. Gorgeous.

Yea the guy says he is a real meanie with a nasty temperament. I have never worked with an elapid but I figured why not start now. I have bought a bunch of new equipment, snake proof boots, gloves, 24" hemostat and some long tongs. I do not want to be bitten by this. I'd rather take a rattler bite anytime.

[Hillsberry]

Awesome looking snake!!

[Will0W783]

He is beautiful. I wish you the best of luck with him. I have always admired cobras, but will probably never own one because of the risk involved. I love to see pictures though.

[2006gt]

that would be cool to own though i myself would never own one post more pics when/if you get him!!

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by Sithis View Post
...My source will remain undisclosed for fear that some idiot will ask me to get him in touch with them....


Nope this snake is not a contact that Randy Rhoads mentioning.
You forgot to add the part when I said "I will not tell people where they can buy an animal that will kill them."

No I meant you. Nothing to do with that guy.

[Freebody]

Grats! i wish you the best of luck and hope you remain good and safe :) as everyone said i wont own hots, or at least anytime soon, but cobras are my fav snake, i just love the way they look with thier hoods flaired, and he is one beautifull looking albino!! so with that said, i hope you post hundreds of pictures for us :) oh i was wondering, can you milk your own venom and have anitvenom made for you? that is how ant venom is made, so i wonder why people with hots need to spend so much fricken money buying viles of anti venom every 2 years to prepair for the worst.

[shaunyboy]

to be honest mate it really should NOT matter whether you or do not disclose where to buy a monicled cobra

its down to the person selling them to make sure its going to someone with enough hot experience to buy it

i have too many kids and grankids to own hots but if i ever did a cobra would be my first choice

beautifull formidable snakes

i look forward to more pictures once he's yours

cheers shaun

[TylerWortman]

Thats really awesome. Looking forward to seeing more pictures. Stay alert and good luck.

[Sithis]

Grats! i wish you the best of luck and hope you remain good and safe :) as everyone said i wont own hots, or at least anytime soon, but cobras are my fav snake, i just love the way they look with thier hoods flaired, and he is one beautifull looking albino!! so with that said, i hope you post hundreds of pictures for us :) oh i was wondering, can you milk your own venom and have anitvenom made for you? that is how ant venom is made, so i wonder why people with hots need to spend so much fricken money buying viles of anti venom every 2 years to prepair for the worst.
Thanks And thanks to all who have commented on this. As far as milking the snake to make antivenin no I can't. I have no way to process it and make antibodies or render it to a state that would provide antivenin. Antivenin is not merely made from milking the snake, that's why people will spend thousands to acquire it. Another thing is if I did have a way to make my own a doctor still would not administer it to me being that it is not FDA approved. Another thing to think of is, even if I were to milk my snakes I would not be able to sell it to any company. All venom used for any purpose by a lab or facility must be collected in a sterile environment that is routinely checked by an inspector. Meaning that any hot keeper being me or anyone else who collected venom from our animals would not be able to sell it for any purpose. that really does suck though. and I wish It were that easy.
I hope I was informative, and I was not trying to be rude, just tryin to give all the facts.
Hots are not for everyone there is a real danger in keeping them. These people you see on youtube or any other site holding their snakes(free handling) them will most likely get bitten. I dont hold mine unless it is absolutely necessary. I have never been bitten but I have had some close calls (last night). And another last week removing an eye-cap. it is an ever present danger every time I open an enclosure.

[Aaron_S]

How long have you been keeping hots Anthony? If you're having close calls already, why do you think you should own a large, aggressive cobra?

[edens]

WOW! its beautiful! but what is a hot? lol

[Aaron_S]

a hot is slang term people use to describe venomous snakes.

[Lankyrob]

As in "too HOT to handle"

[edens]

ooooh cool! i know a few people that are like that :-D
well i gotta say, i agree with whoever wrote that handling them unless you have to makes you an idiot. it makes me mad when peoples stupidity are blamed on creatures that are reacting instinctually. more often than not, its the animal that pays the price in the long run :-(

[Sithis]

How long have you been keeping hots Anthony? If you're having close calls already, why do you think you should own a large, aggressive cobra?

Been working with them for just over six years and actually owning I would say only about half a year. As far as why I would say for experience. as far as close calls go I think anyone who keeps them will have some close ones when it comes to removing eyecaps and such. If you've had it for years or just a week. look up and see how many veteran keepers actually get bitten.
There may be a couple of them that haven't but the majority have. I don't want to get bit , but if I do then so be it. If I disappear form this forum and youtube that means the inevitable has happened. and I would die doing something that I love.

[belovedboas]

:):)The debate begins.........beautiful cobra:)one of my fav snakes:) but on a serious note....some people on this site are very critical...I have been keeping boas and smaller pythons for 6 yrs...and kept snakes off and on roughly all my life and I dont criticize the lil guy!! Not a personal jab at anyone I just see alot of negativety and criticizing other people's method's/ experience!!! we are all still learning especially us younger ones and the newbies to the hobby!! just a thought....

and Aaron just in case you wonder this is not at you specifically.....but I do find your approach to come with a lil attitude after reading alot of your posts.....i do think you mean well

[Sithis]

Thanks Belovedboas,

@ aaron_s why don't you just avoid posting your two cents in this thread if you just intend to antagonize me? Did I do something to you?
Like I said I've been working with hots (venomous snakes for those with no common sense) for 6 years and I've owned snakes and other reptiles for the past 16. I post on here to share my experiences and also to ask questions and learn from others.
I don't think I know everything and I don't act like I do. So please for future reference if you have a snide or coy remark just keep it to yourself. Thanks!

[Aaron_S]

I post because I've seen your youtube videos. You are going to get bit. I'll give you credit for attempting safety procedures but I sure hope that with this cobra you use a trap box and not just try to hook it into a rubbermaid.

[belovedboas]

Thanks Belovedboas,

@ aaron_s why don't you just avoid posting your two cents in this thread if you just intend to antagonize me? Did I do something to you?
Like I said I've been working with hots (venomous snakes for those with no common sense) for 6 years and I've owned snakes and other reptiles for the past 16. I post on here to share my experiences and also to ask questions and learn from others.
I don't think I know everything and I don't act like I do. So please for future reference if you have a snide or coy remark just keep it to yourself. Thanks!

Sorry but I agree:):)

[Reptile_Reptile]

Aaron... *sigh, maybe instead of jabbing at people first and then tell them whats up after they ask. JUST TELL THEM your last post should have been the first. you are always needlessly antagonizing people. just try a softer approach sometime, information is key not belligerence

[Sithis]

I post because I've seen your youtube videos. You are going to get bit. I'll give you credit for attempting safety procedures but I sure hope that with this cobra you use a trap box and not just try to hook it into a rubbermaid.

Indeed...
Na I think I'll just use my bare hands.
How many "hot" (I'm sure by now you know what that means) keepers have do you think use "Rubbermaid" containers rather than " trap boxes"? The answer is plenty well into the hundreds. I know I may get bit, I have stated that plenty of times already. Who are you my effing mommy?
its like if I told you or anyone else who has a constrictor you are gonna get choked. I don't need nor do I want your advise.

I think you are a troll.
After your next response please try and refrain from posting anything else in this thread.

Thanks bud.

[belovedboas]

Hey Sithis, whats your channel name on you tube..cause I wouldnt mind checking out your vids..:)

[Sithis]

Hey Sithis, whats your channel name on you tube..cause I wouldnt mind checking out your vids..:)
Sithisnight

[Damion930]

Beautiful snake I have a buddy that breeds them has always fascinated me im exposedt to hots quite often in the wild no conrad... but plenty of rattlers copperheads and cotton mouths and I can't help but check them out a bit and if need be remove them from the area for safety may your close calls be nothing but a reminder

[Sithis]

Thanks Damion,
There is something about seeing them in the wild. I love when I see out during the day and it don't see me. To see an animal that has probably never even seen a human, just being what it is out there in the wild is awesome to me.

@ edens I am so sorry I was reading too fast and made an a** out of myself and I can take it back I was reading and got so upset at aaron_s and I lashed out thinking it was him being a smart butt. I apologize and I take it back. I have trouble following from my phone sometimes but that is no reason. I did not intend to belittle you and make you feel dumb or stupid for something that you didn't understand. I feel really bad. I hope you can accept my apology. Please understand that it was not aimed at you. I am sorry

[percey39]

Nice cobra, would love to be able to own some ( damn australian government!!!! ) I use a hook and bare hand to tail all of my snakes as trap boxes in my mind a more a trap to get bitten over preventing it. I cant wait to see more pics mate!!!! I love elapids, you will become addicted to them like me after this purchase.

Its not if you will get bitten its when!!

[TeaNinja]

i wouldn't want to run the risk of getting bitten by a hot, nor would i want to buy antivenom. and i don't really understand why you're not disclosing where you got your cobra, if i REALLY wanted to i could probably find a cobra to buy in like 20 minutes without a single word from you. (not that i would)

/i googled for about 10 seconds and found this site where people sell all kinds of hots.
VenomousReptiles.org Classifieds - Search Results (http://www.venomousreptiles.org/classifieds/results/10)

Been working with them for just over six years and actually owning I would say only about half a year. As far as why I would say for experience. as far as close calls go I think anyone who keeps them will have some close ones when it comes to removing eyecaps and such. If you've had it for years or just a week. look up and see how many veteran keepers actually get bitten.

There may be a couple of them that haven't but the majority have. I don't want to get bit , but if I do then so be it. If I disappear form this forum and youtube that means the inevitable has happened. and I would die doing something that I love.


and lol...that's terrible. all you'd do is bring more heat onto other hot owners.

[Lankyrob]

I thought this forum was for snake lovers and for us to share our collections ans knowledge but it seems everytime someone posts anything about veno,ous snakes they get shot down, criticised and generally had a go at.

This isnt a guy thats bought a corn snake and suddemly decided to buya cobra as their second snake!! This is someone with experience of keeping venomous animals who is adding to their collection.

I for one am looking forward to hearing howthis new snake settles in and living vicariously by enjoying pictures and experiences that another herper is willing to share with me.

[TeaNinja]

i never said anything about hots at all lol. i just said i wouldn't want to own one (and have NO experience) and didn't really understand why he made a point to withhold the source of his snake.

and do you not agree that if he did "die doing something he loved" that the reptile community wouldn't hear about it and possibly even suffer? and if not the entire community, prolly the hot owners.

i don't care what people own or do either way as long as they don't harm me, power to your hots.

[Reptile_Reptile]

I thought this forum was for snake lovers and for us to share our collections ans knowledge but it seems everytime someone posts anything about veno,ous snakes they get shot down, criticised and generally had a go at.

This isnt a guy thats bought a corn snake and suddemly decided to buya cobra as their second snake!! This is someone with experience of keeping venomous animals who is adding to their collection.

I for one am looking forward to hearing howthis new snake settles in and living vicariously by enjoying pictures and experiences that another herper is willing to share with me.
i agree, it is a choice and even though end product it may look bad on the community (although i think sithis will be a great MC keeper) its not the communities place to judge. it is the singular members wholesome responsibility in what kind of snake they choose to keep.

[dragunov.762]

i know i can't be the only one with this question but as i have not looked into hots at all what is a trap box? wouldn't a viv the opens from the top be the safest as cobras can only strike downward and not out?

[Damion930]

Its basically a hide box with a latching lid somtimes a sliding plexiglass lid or a hinged door that can be easaly opend and closed with a hook for easaly removing snakes from ther tanks for cleaning and enclosure matenence a lot of ppl just use tubs for the same purpose

[Aaron_S]

i agree, it is a choice and even though end product it may look bad on the community (although i think sithis will be a great MC keeper) its not the communities place to judge. it is the singular members wholesome responsibility in what kind of snake they choose to keep.


Really? Being apart of a community I can't judge someone for taking away that community with their bad judgement calls? If someone dies from keeping their venomous snake and a ban goes into effect banning ALL snakes it affects me and my hobby. I have the right to judge. I don't believe venomous snakes should be kept privately by the vast majority. You can all get on me for being rude but the world isn't nice nor is life so I don't see why I have to sugar coat things. I kept a copperhead back in college. I know the dangers and the possibilities of death. 99% of you can't say that. I actually speak from firsthand experience.

[edens]

Thanks Damion,
There is something about seeing them in the wild. I love when I see out during the day and it don't see me. To see an animal that has probably never even seen a human, just being what it is out there in the wild is awesome to me.

@ edens I am so sorry I was reading too fast and made an a** out of myself and I can take it back I was reading and got so upset at aaron_s and I lashed out thinking it was him being a smart butt. I apologize and I take it back. I have trouble following from my phone sometimes but that is no reason. I did not intend to belittle you and make you feel dumb or stupid for something that you didn't understand. I feel really bad. I hope you can accept my apology. Please understand that it was not aimed at you. I am sorry

the funniest thing is lol...that i saw your pm first...had no idea what you were appologizing for and had to check lol :-) its ok....dont worry about it :-) i know all about feeling like that trust me, i am now an expert extract-foot-from-mouth girl :-D

[Lankyrob]

Really? Being apart of a community I can't judge someone for taking away that community with their bad judgement calls? If someone dies from keeping their venomous snake and a ban goes into effect banning ALL snakes it affects me and my hobby. I have the right to judge. I don't believe venomous snakes should be kept privately by the vast majority. You can all get on me for being rude but the world isn't nice nor is life so I don't see why I have to sugar coat things. I kept a copperhead back in college. I know the dangers and the possibilities of death. 99% of you can't say that. I actually speak from firsthand experience.

99% of us cant appreciate the possiblity of death form a hot? Are we all to stupid compared to you then??

[belovedboas]

So argumentative Aaron!!! you bring this place down!!!:):)

[Sithis]

@ edens Thanks!
And also to rob, percey, beloved
Yeah like I said when My time is up that's it I will die when and the way I am supposed to. Be it by a snake, old age, car wreck and so on. I'd bet that you didn't know that roughly 100 people die every day in just the USA in car accidents. What I am getting at is you are more likely to die on your way to work than from a venomous snake bite, even if you keep them. We will all die one day, it is the way nature works. Another thing Aaron_S is you would most likely survive a copperhead bite with no treatment, SO NO HE DON'T KNOW THE DANGER.

[Sithis]

I am done arguing with this guy. Aaron has made a complete jackass out of himself. And I need not bother with him anymore.

[Sithis]

Its not if you will get bitten its when!!


I have to say I agree. I do have the fear but the allure is too strong

[Aaron_S]

Before this gets out of hand anymore I'm going to state I really hope for the best with Anthony and that everything goes well with this new snake.

I have a great passion for snakes and reptiles.I don't want to see any harmed in anyway nor do I want to see anyone harmed in keeping them. I have a very strong opinion on venomous snake keeping. It's very dangerous. No matter the species.

[Sithis]

Thank you Aaron...

I apologize.

[Lankyrob]

Before this gets out of hand anymore I'm going to state I really hope for the best with Anthony and that everything goes well with this new snake.

I have a great passion for snakes and reptiles.I don't want to see any harmed in anyway nor do I want to see anyone harmed in keeping them. I have a very strong opinion on venomous snake keeping. It's very dangerous. No matter the species.

I would say that the majority of peoplle on this forum feel exactly the same but manage to put their point across in a much less aggressive and arrogant manor and without getting peoples backs up at the same time.

I do respect 99% of what you say Arron and appreciate that you do have a lot more experience than i do but quite regularly you seem to say things in a way that belittkes others experiences and knowledge and this is what winds me up.

I am hoping this is coming across in the right way, i am not trying to inflame the situation, completly the opposite in fact, i am hoping that my criticism is consttructive rather than antagonistic and that we can move on and enjoy this forum into the future.

[belovedboas]

Anyone can tell your very passionate Aaron which is respectable!! just lighten up a bit

[marvelfreak]

Personally i enjoy Aaron no hold bar attitude. He's like the Simon Cowell of the forum. Some time hearing the truth hurts, but when you step back and think about it you know he right.

Now can we please put all the first grade B.S. to rest. It because of this kind of crap that Feebo and a couple other have quit posting on here. If we run off all the people with the most knowledge then all we'll have is a forum of the blind leading the blind. I mean know disrespect to anyone i am just stating my opinion.

[TeaNinja]

@ edens Thanks!
And also to rob, percey, beloved
Yeah like I said when My time is up that's it I will die when and the way I am supposed to. Be it by a snake, old age, car wreck and so on. I'd bet that you didn't know that roughly 100 people die every day in just the USA in car accidents. What I am getting at is you are more likely to die on your way to work than from a venomous snake bite, even if you keep them. We will all die one day, it is the way nature works. Another thing Aaron_S is you would most likely survive a copperhead bite with no treatment, SO NO HE DON'T KNOW THE DANGER.

i never wanted to argue about having venomous snakes, but i think your POV is kind of one sided and stupid. SURE, tons of people die in car wrecks cuz people suck at driving. if you DIE because you're a crappy pet owner (if you are) then the heat comes down on other pet owners. so saying "i'll die when it's my time, possibly by snakes" is really dumb. if you think death may occur with owning the snake, don't do it. its like, if the oven is hot you don't touch it, right?

i'm just saying, if i was thinking about getting a snake and i thought....."could this thing kill me?" and if it COULD i would not get it for not only MY well being, but because i wouldn't want my idiocy to effect other people (something you appear to not give a CRAP about)

everyone, feel free to bash on me if i'm wrong. i think i can take it B)

[Reptile_Reptile]

If we run off all the people with the most knowledge then all we'll have is a forum of the blind leading the blind

i agree, but Simon Cowell is an ***. but he gives information instead of being a jerk right away. i have said this 100 times on here at least. if you just judge someone or tell them they are wrong all you are going to do is illicit a strong emotional and defensive response, and it will be takin as rude and bashing. now if you judge someone then give them intelligent thoughts and information on why this or that shouldn't be done or why they should do this, then you will be thanked and it probably wont be construed as rude. some people here are prime examples of both. and the only one that is effective is the latter of the two.

[Aaron_S]

This is way off topic. If you want to discuss my maturity levels take it to PM or make a "roast Aaron" thread. This isn't the place to do it.

As I said in my first post. Beautiful snake.

[Damion930]

Ohoh me me lol diff ppl have diff opinions somtimes u may not like it do yourselves a favor and don't let yourself get offended by someone elses hots are dangerous take the advice offers or don't and learn to exept the fact that aaron may rub u the wrong way somtimes he's part of this community you may not always like what he has to say or how he sez it but he usualy has a good valid point can't we all just learn to agree to disagree thee end lol

[edens]

well to put a positive spin on all of this....regardless of the different opinions and the way they are expressed, i love the fact that people are so passionate about all of this. i think that we can all agree that we llooovvve us some snakes :-)

[serpentshideawa]

here here i agree with that

[Sithis]

I'm Done It has been fun. Take care all.
Bye

[infernalis]

Now can we please put all the first grade B.S. to rest. It because of this kind of crap that Feebo and a couple other have quit posting on here. If we run off all the people with the most knowledge then all we'll have is a forum of the blind leading the blind. I mean know disrespect to anyone i am just stating my opinion.


Very well said Chuck, I am still reading through this... we have one more knowledgeable member who has lost interest here.. this can't happen..

He already deleted his details from his profile.

[infernalis]

I do have a question here.. If we run every venomous keeper off the boards (RandyRhodes excluded) who will be here to offer advice when a new person signs up and asks questions about hots??

Or are we going to just keep on handing out the same replies about how dangerous they are?

I spoke with Anthony more than once commending him on his sensible approach to hots, Hopefully I can find a way to keep him interested in posting on here.

Now that I am reading where we are losing other members, it may be time to take a good long look at how we are treating each other on here.

Above all else RESPECT one another, RESPECT our differences, embrace our similarities and also understand that people are individuals and we all have different opinions and standards.

Differences do not make any one person wrong or right. Nor do those differences give us the right to shove "popular" opinion down the throats of those who do not share the same views.

When someone posts (using "generic" examples here)....

Please help, my boa don't like hot dogs??

There is more than one way to answer.

"hey moron, what are you trying to do, kill the snake..noob!"

That reply will NOT cause the new snake owner to just immediatly switch over to your way of thinking, most likely it will chase them off to keep on trying to feed hot dogs to their boa.

"Oh my, please don't do that.. Boas eat rodents, get some mice right away"

That answer is direct to the point, is polite and will prompt the owner of the snake to stick around and ask more questions.

So the bottom line is, we have here the finest damn forum hands down for reptiles, PLEASE do not send it down the same path as all those other forums where mindless name calling is the "normal post" :confused:

[Will0W783]

i'm just saying, if i was thinking about getting a snake and i thought....."could this thing kill me?" and if it COULD i would not get it for not only MY well being, but because i wouldn't want my idiocy to effect other people (something you appear to not give a CRAP about)

Most any snake larger than a foot long could potentially kill a person, venomous or not. Your Dumeril's boa will eventually get 7-8 feet long, perhaps bigger, and at that size it could easily kill you without meaning to if it got around your neck. There's an inherent danger in any animal- a dog could snap and rip your throat out, your cat could scratch you after it just used the cat box and the wound could get infected, your dog could accidentally trip you down the stairs.
My point is that ANY animal comes with its own dangers and risks and list of cautionary advice. A venomous snake just presents its own kind of danger. Some people are up to keeping them and accepting that particular kind of risk, others are not. I for one will most likely never trust myself to keep a hot, but I understand and respect those that do. One day my Burm could suffocate me, or one of my boas could get around my neck and choke me out without meaning to, or I could trip over my dog or one of the cats and fall and hit my head and die. I could also die walking across the street, or driving my car to work, or any myriad number of ways. We all take risks. Life is risks, it's just which ones we choose.

I do think that Sithis will be a good cobra keeper; I don't necessarily think he needed to mention that he wouldn't give the source of his snake. How many of us non-ven keepers ever think to mention where we got our snakes? We just don't bring it up. There was no reason to bring it up, then say "by the way, none of you is skilled enough or smart enough to deserve this knowledge". We all got a bit out of hand being put off by that comment and tempers flared. Let's put it to rest, accept that different people have different viewpoints on keeping hots, and look forward to seeing how this snake settles in.

Marvelfreak, is Feebo done on here? he was a great guy. It would suck if this place lost him.

[TeaNinja]

Most any snake larger than a foot long could potentially kill a person, venomous or not. Your Dumeril's boa will eventually get 7-8 feet long, perhaps bigger, and at that size it could easily kill you without meaning to if it got around your neck. There's an inherent danger in any animal- a dog could snap and rip your throat out, your cat could scratch you after it just used the cat box and the wound could get infected, your dog could accidentally trip you down the stairs.
My point is that ANY animal comes with its own dangers and risks and list of cautionary advice. A venomous snake just presents its own kind of danger. Some people are up to keeping them and accepting that particular kind of risk, others are not. I for one will most likely never trust myself to keep a hot, but I understand and respect those that do. One day my Burm could suffocate me, or one of my boas could get around my neck and choke me out without meaning to, or I could trip over my dog or one of the cats and fall and hit my head and die. I could also die walking across the street, or driving my car to work, or any myriad number of ways. We all take risks. Life is risks, it's just which ones we choose.

I do think that Sithis will be a good cobra keeper; I don't necessarily think he needed to mention that he wouldn't give the source of his snake. How many of us non-ven keepers ever think to mention where we got our snakes? We just don't bring it up. There was no reason to bring it up, then say "by the way, none of you is skilled enough or smart enough to deserve this knowledge". We all got a bit out of hand being put off by that comment and tempers flared. Let's put it to rest, accept that different people have different viewpoints on keeping hots, and look forward to seeing how this snake settles in.

Marvelfreak, is Feebo done on here? he was a great guy. It would suck if this place lost him.

sure, but you're taking it to the extreme. MAYBE my yellow lab could trip me down some stairs or maybe my snake could panic and constrict on me, but those are two EXTREMELY rare hypotheticals. how rare is getting bitten by a venomous snake? not very. it's like you're saying "eating a medium rare steak can mess you up, but so can running across a 8 lane highway (OBVIOUSLY one is more dangerous then the last. and honestly if he DID die like a moron "doing what he loves" do you think it would all be peaches and cream or would it have a mal effect on the hot community if not the entire snake community?

i just think his attitude was BS. "i'm gonna do whatever i want and i may die doing it, but at least i die doing what i love" regardless of what harm may come of it.

and fyi, i really doubt my dum will EVER hit 7-8 feet. Maybe 7

[serpentshideawa]

its not rare? so you are telling us that all you hear on the news is some joe shmoe went and got tagged by a venomous snake. i agree with what willow said and i believe for everyones enlightenment even for those of us who have no intentions of keeping hots we need more hot keepers here telling their "war" stories helping the new hot keepers with tips and tricks of the trade so to speak now im sure someone will get a hair up their backside over this but it wasnt intended

[TeaNinja]

its not rare? so you are telling us that all you hear on the news is some joe shmoe went and got tagged by a venomous snake. i agree with what willow said and i believe for everyones enlightenment even for those of us who have no intentions of keeping hots we need more hot keepers here telling their "war" stories helping the new hot keepers with tips and tricks of the trade so to speak now im sure someone will get a hair up their backside over this but it wasnt intended

you dodged my point 110%. all i said was his "it's ok if i die doing what i love" argument seems stupid to me. please don't put words in my mouth, i never said ANYTHING about the news or people being bitten or anything like that. all i said was that attitude seems dumb and possibly harmful to hot keepers if not snake keepers (if he was to die).

do you disagree with the point i made?

[serpentshideawa]

that is a bit harmful to the hobby but what got me no offence but its the fact that you said it is not rare which yea it happens but its not all the time

[TeaNinja]

i don't have stats or information on that, but i would STRONGLY assume more hot owners get bit by their pets then owners getting accidentally constricted to death.

my only point i've tried to make in this entire thread is that specific attitude is dumb.
i could care LESS what people do as long as it doesn't harm others.

/i'd love to see stats on that and even be proven wrong, that's just what i think.

[infernalis]

What I think is sad is that I have had requests to have the venomous forum removed from the boards to prevent any further conflicts.

I agree that this one forum has created more friction in my year as moderator than any other discussion board we have.

One of the first things I want to point out... Those buffoons we see on the news and on "fatal attractions" are not the same breed of people we see on the forums.

Those people are hell bent on doing whatever they please, and would not likely seek the companionship or advice of an internet group like ours.

[marvelfreak]

I do have a question here.. If we run every venomous keeper off the boards (RandyRhodes excluded) who will be here to offer advice when a new person signs up and asks questions about hots??

Or are we going to just keep on handing out the same replies about how dangerous they are?

I spoke with Anthony more than once commending him on his sensible approach to hots, Hopefully I can find a way to keep him interested in posting on here.

Now that I am reading where we are losing other members, it may be time to take a good long look at how we are treating each other on here.

Above all else RESPECT one another, RESPECT our differences, embrace our similarities and also understand that people are individuals and we all have different opinions and standards.

Differences do not make any one person wrong or right. Nor do those differences give us the right to shove "popular" opinion down the throats of those who do not share the same views.

When someone posts (using "generic" examples here)....

Please help, my boa don't like hot dogs??

There is more than one way to answer.

"hey moron, what are you trying to do, kill the snake..noob!"

That reply will NOT cause the new snake owner to just immediatly switch over to your way of thinking, most likely it will chase them off to keep on trying to feed hot dogs to their boa.

"Oh my, please don't do that.. Boas eat rodents, get some mice right away"

That answer is direct to the point, is polite and will prompt the owner of the snake to stick around and ask more questions.

So the bottom line is, we have here the finest damn forum hands down for reptiles, PLEASE do not send it down the same path as all those other forums where mindless name calling is the "normal post" :confused:
What's sad is the fact Wayne had to post this. Being polite and respectful should be common sense. And before some goes off mad this isn't directed at anyone it's just a statement.
Kim i am glad to say i talked with Feebo today and the reason he hasn't been around is because he just been really busy. And hasn't had much time for forums. I thought after the B.S. that happen awhile back and not seeing him on here in months he might have left for good. Which i am very glad to say is not the case.:)

For the record we do still have Percey. Who in my book is one of the most knowledgeable venomous guys around.:)

[Will0W783]

I'm glad Feebs hasn't been run off. And Percey is definitely a spot-on guy for venomous keeping. I admire those who keep the hots, as long as they are careful and realistic about the dangers, which most people who keep hots and post on forums (exception being Mr. Randy Rhodes....)are.
I love to see the pictures of the vens and honestly I had never even heard of the tiger snakes and Australian copperheads until Percey showed pics of his. Beautiful little snakes, and I learned a lot of new things from him. I think we can learn a lot from Sithis as well. I personally, from the viewpoint of someone who understands risk for what you love, is that his attitude towards the danger is healthy. He recognizes it's there, he takes precautions, but he also has made peace with the fact that he could very well die one day from his snakes. I imagine (I have no idea because I have no personal experience) that being nervous and scared around venomous snakes would make you more likely to make a mistake? I get bitten by my non-vens more often when I am stressed out, nervous or frightened of a particularly nasty one.

Wayne works really hard to keep things civil on here and make everyone happy. We all just need to sometimes stop, take a deep breath and think what we will accomplish by ripping someone apart. I too have been guilty of being too short with newcomers at times, but I try to apologize and make it up to them. This is a forum- a public gathering to share information and experiences. We should all be open to others. Just my 2 cents and I hope I didn't piss anyone off by anything I've said on this thread or others.
TeaNinja, female Dumeril's get about 5-7 feet. Occasionally they can top 7 though. They are nice thick-bodied snakes though, so a 7-footer can be more than 20 pounds. I think really the ones that are that large are quite senior though. Snakes can grow their entire lives; they don't stop and start shrinking in their old age like we humans do.
Not to get off-topic, but in a lot of ways I think us mammals got the short end of the stick. Females of us go through uncomfy cycles, we only grow for a short period of our lives, and start seeming to shrink once we pass middle age, we get slow and decrepit and saggy when we get old, we need to eat every couple of hours. A 20 year-old snake for the most parts looks as healthy as a 3-year old if kept properly, they only eat every few weeks, they don't ovulate until bred, they never get droopy and saggy in old age. Man they have it good, don't they? :-P

[TeaNinja]

TeaNinja, female Dumeril's get about 5-7 feet. Occasionally they can top 7 though. They are nice thick-bodied snakes though, so a 7-footer can be more than 20 pounds.

i'm Pretty sure mine's a male, but not 100% and they end up a bit smaller then females.

and as for your point of him being perfectly prepared to own these snakes and everything. sure, he probably was. but in MY mind the correct mindset would be "if i own these snakes i will have antivenom or some precautionary measure to make sure myself and the reptiles are safe and mortally unharmed", not "i've come to terms with the fact that i may die doing what i love"

maybe i took it out of context or something, but that attitude kind of erked me in a weird way.

[serpentshideawa]

in some extreme cases it is not feasible i think to get antivenin in some areas for some snakes due to the scarcity of the supply and hospitals tend to be the ones who have the ability to acquire these items more readily than a private collector just what i think dont get me wrong i think it would be wise to have some just in case if you can get it but i also know that sometimes you just cant get it

[TeaNinja]

understandable, but i'd do research and make VERY WELL SURE there was antivenom available somewhere very near or else i wouldn't get the snake. but i'm also not a hot owner (for obvious reasons)

[percey39]

This has got way out of hand and I personally feel sorry for both Anthony and Aaron as they both had comments taken the wrong way. Not only by each other but by the vast majority in this thread. I myself have been taken the wrong way with some the photo's i have posted and some of my beliefs especially with hot's. We as the very small minority in snake keeping get misunderstood by nearly all and especially with each other on many different topics. Venomous species are always a touchy subject with everyone, but we are all entitled to our own beliefs.

I have not been keeping hot's for a long time but do have a lot of experience with most of our native species. I have found that a lot of new comers to this area of keeping do get "bashed" on forum's and in talking to other when introducing the idea or asking what species is best to start on. This is where we usually see people who are not in the position to comment join in on the "bashing/flaming", i dont like or understand this? There are certainly better species to start with over mamba's and taipans! This is not directed at anyone here personally, just my experiences in life.

Thanks to those who mentioned me, but there are many people to learn from on the wild side of the hobby. Its just due to these type of conflicts a lot of good info gets lost or kept instead of being shared.

Please dont remove the venomous side of the forum Wayne as it gives all of us a chance to stare at/dream of owning some of the most beautiful animals the world has to offer.

[percey39]

Just re read that last post and incase i was going to be misunderstood when i said not keeping for a long time i was meaning, i have kept them for years and not decades like many of the people i know.

Also anti venom can cost well into the thousands per a vial. One bite can need up to and over ten vials, given it has a short life span and the risk of anaphylactic reactions ( which can cause death in under 3 minutes ) when injected at home it would seem far too costly and stupid to store it.

[TeaNinja]

more reasons why i wouldn't own a hot.
(but that's just me ;) )

[serpentshideawa]

thats part of what i meant when i said that in some cases it wasnt feasible to keep antivenom

[Shmoges]

So here is my question. Yes these snakes are obviously venomous and dangerous, but could you handle these things enough to trust them like a corn snake? I have 6 snakes now and have never been bitten. Are cobras just an aggressive species and can't be trusted that way like say a tiger over a house cat? I have no interest in getting one myself, I know it only takes once and if you don't die you run the risk of organ issues later in life but still I ask the question?

I am not able in anyway mentally or physically to operate tools to handle a venomous snake safely but my glass is half empty on this subject in that I would love to see someone do this and perform venom exctraction and such.

[Ch^4]

i'm just saying, if i was thinking about getting a snake and i thought....."could this thing kill me?" and if it COULD i would not get it for not only MY well being, but because i wouldn't want my idiocy to effect other people (something you appear to not give a CRAP about)

everyone, feel free to bash on me if i'm wrong. i think i can take it B)

Definitely not trying to exacerbate the situation, just trying to highlight a point that Kim made. Even at its current size, your Dum could easily kill you. In your avatar pic, the snake is loosely around your neck. I'm going to be frank and present an unlikely, but possible event: you lose your balance and startle your Dum. His (or her) reaction is to hold on to you so he/she doesn't fall. That reaction could easily throw a coil around your neck before you could even think about responding...that could end it.

That wouldn't look good on a news story: "Owner suffocated by Dumerils Boa."

Definitely not bashing you or trying to single you out, but I did want to throw that out there. I'm not judging you or the OP, but someone's idiocy affecting others is an inevitable misfortune we all have to deal with (again, neither you or the OP are being called idiots...as Wayne mentioned, the idiots are not on this forum). :D

[TeaNinja]

Definitely not trying to exacerbate the situation, just trying to highlight a point that Kim made. Even at its current size, your Dum could easily kill you. In your avatar pic, the snake is loosely around your neck. I'm going to be frank and present an unlikely, but possible event: you lose your balance and startle your Dum. His (or her) reaction is to hold on to you so he/she doesn't fall. That reaction could easily throw a coil around your neck before you could even think about responding...that could end it.

That wouldn't look good on a news story: "Owner suffocated by Dumerils Boa."

Definitely not bashing you or trying to single you out, but I did want to throw that out there. I'm not judging you or the OP, but someone's idiocy affecting others is an inevitable misfortune we all have to deal with (again, neither you or the OP are being called idiots...as Wayne mentioned, the idiots are not on this forum). :D

ofc it could happen, but not only do i make sure to not let the snake hang out around my neck, but i don't just like walk around with a huge snake on my shoulders. it's a TON more likely that a hot owner would get bit by his snake, plus they are just WAITING to strike you most of the time.

[Jay]

Aaron S -
I couldnt agree more you could not have said it better in your last post i think hots should only be kept in a stable facility designed for hots i checked this guys you tube..not good imo
when he gets bit buy him and we will all suffer maybe not right away but it will spread and there will be a ban also no matter how many precautions you take it only takes one slip up and imo he does not look experienced in any way

[percey39]

So here is my question. Yes these snakes are obviously venomous and dangerous, but could you handle these things enough to trust them like a corn snake? I have 6 snakes now and have never been bitten. Are cobras just an aggressive species and can't be trusted that way like say a tiger over a house cat? I have no interest in getting one myself, I know it only takes once and if you don't die you run the risk of organ issues later in life but still I ask the question?

I am not able in anyway mentally or physically to operate tools to handle a venomous snake safely but my glass is half empty on this subject in that I would love to see someone do this and perform venom exctraction and such.

Venom extraction is a must do at my house as a lot of friends are very intrigued to see the sheer amount of venom produced compared to how much can kill. If i get a good video camera like i plan i will post a video of me milking some of my hot's for you guy's.
With handling i am of the belief that they can be handled like pythons, but this is a very touchy subject with everyone including the majority of hot's keepers. I find that they can just be moody like any python but they definetely deserve a hell of a lot more respect! Free handling is a touchy subject and i do not intend to go into too much detail as last time i spoke about this i got flogged, albeit for the right reasons and speaking about it on public forums.

[Ch^4]

^^ I'd love to see a video on venom extraction! It's always fascinating to watch, but to see one of our very own forum members in action, would make it that much more spectacular!

[percey39]

^^ I'd love to see a video on venom extraction! It's always fascinating to watch, but to see one of our very own forum members in action, would make it that much more spectacular!

Will do mate!

[belovedboas]

Aaron S -
I couldnt agree more you could not have said it better in your last post i think hots should only be kept in a stable facility designed for hots i checked this guys you tube..not good imo
when he gets bit buy him and we will all suffer maybe not right away but it will spread and there will be a ban also no matter how many precautions you take it only takes one slip up and imo he does not look experienced in any way

So I am curious Jay (nothing more) How Is it that it's "ok" that some on this forum..(including myself) own 10ft + constrictors (not that I am comparing the two) but it's not ok that a keeper that is quite experienced with hots own's them...No offense to anyone but I see people on here all the time..with minimal experience getting large constrictor's as there first snake, Is this ok?I'll just say this I think putting say.....a 5ft boa,retic,anac,etc. around your neck poses just as much danger as dealing with hots does....It also only takes one slip up with a large constrictor!! just my opinion!:)

[belovedboas]

Yeah that would be cool Percy!!:):)

[marvelfreak]

I would like to make a point about holding big snakes. Yes you don't what let them wrap around your neck, but try holding a 8 foot 30lb snake that trying to climb ever where. When holding a big snake the easy way to support it body weight is to set it across your shoulders. With a aggressive snake you would never want to do this. But even then always be aware of things around you that could spook your snake.

I was chocked out by a 8 foot boa that got spooked.
1) First mistake i made was letting her wrap all the way around my neck.

2) Second was i wasn't paying attention to things around me. If i had be i would have seen the cat walk into the room. Which spooked the snake.

3) Last and most important I didn't have anyone there to help in case something went wrong.
I got really lucky that my brother and sister in law show up just as i was
blacking out. If they hadn't shown up and remove her i would be dead. I had turn purple and was not breathing it all happen in under 8 second and i was out cold.

It's easy to say don't put one on your shoulders, but when your holding one for any period of time it's going to get heavy and you need to support their weight. Plus it makes it easier to control where the snake goes. The key is just use common sense, becareful, and alert.
Because know matter how big or small or venomous all snake can be dangerous. Even the littlest snake can bite you, the bite get infected and you get sick. Happen to my buddy Shawn when his king snake bit him.

There's a risk any time you deal with snakes that you could get bit. I am sure deep down inside that part of what draws us to them. Some people just like taking bigger risk. So instead of blasting them for it lets help educated them so they don't make the same mistake some of us have.

[belovedboas]

Agreed Marvel....:)

[Jay]

well its common sense not to put something that could potentially kill you around your weakest point but some feel the need to still do it ..beats me would you put your head in a sharks mouth ?

[Jay]

So I am curious Jay (nothing more) How Is it that it's "ok" that some on this forum..(including myself) own 10ft + constrictors (not that I am comparing the two) but it's not ok that a keeper that is quite experienced with hots own's them...No offense to anyone but I see people on here all the time..with minimal experience getting large constrictor's as there first snake, Is this ok?I'll just say this I think putting say.....a 5ft boa,retic,anac,etc. around your neck poses just as much danger as dealing with hots does....It also only takes one slip up with a large constrictor!! just my opinion!:)

and when did i say it was "ok"

[belovedboas]

Ok after reading through thoroughly I do apoligize Jay...I misread...But you own snakes do you not? I was simply saying that we all own large snakes or snakes in general...so why should hots be in a stable facility...It's hypocritical if someone thinks there exp. enough and have the knowledge who are we to judge. Because I own snakes , you own snakes no one judges us...and the neck thing .....no it is not smart, I will be the first one to admit it, but I think all of us have done it at one point...I just don't think we should judge..

...just about any animal can kill you!!:):)

[Jay]

yes any animal would kill you but most of them will not react by leaving them alone ? so again would you put your headin a sharks mouth ? no because its dangerous now i do no people who have hots they dont show them off i seen your video ... you do not look no where near experienced but congrats you can now show of your cool snake lol just be car full

[belovedboas]

Definetely be careful...:)

[Aaron_S]

Jay what video are you talking about?

In regards to the question posed, I don't believe large constrictors should be kept by most of the general public as well. Most people provide inadequate housing as well as don't take the necessary safety precautions. We really can't compare venomous snakes to large constrictors as both have different ways of hurting us. The biggest reason though that a lot of people are against hot keeping is because a large constrictor can defensively bite you, it won't kill you whereas a venomous snake is one bite and you're done.

[Jay]

couldnt agree more,
My parents had burms as i was growing up they still do but i dont want one for that reason

[Jay]

way to many people are getting snakes without providing care i think there is a guy on here who has a dp of a boa around his neck? i dont get it im not comparing the 2 snakes but like you said one bite and your dead The average life span of a snake is about 10-12 years if he feeds it every 10 days thats about 365 days you just have to feed your snake and then ther is cleaning one little slip up and lights out i cant understand and the video is the op he does NOT look prepared at all he looked lost mabee it will take one to get bit for them to realize what they are dealing with

[belovedboas]

I do agree with you guys.....and I have put snakes on my neck in the past but don't condone it nor think it's smart..:):)

[percey39]

There is no anti-venom for lack of oxygen!

[infernalis]

There is no anti-venom for lack of oxygen!

Bravo Percy..http://www.thamfriends.com/forum/images/smilies/mouse.gifhttp://www.thamfriends.com/forum/images/smilies/snakei.gif

[TeaNinja]

i just think if a hot owner and a large constrictor owner are both smart about their pets (meaning the hot keeper knows what he's doing and the constrictor owner doesn't have it around his neck or in an obvious could be dangerous situation, it's still more likely the hot owner could get hurt. like previously said, they both defensively bite, but the hots get you and you're done. if you're smart and don't hold your constrictor on your neck, i would never see an issue with large constrictor owning.

[nick speed]

i just think if a hot owner and a large constrictor owner are both smart about their pets (meaning the hot keeper knows what he's doing and the constrictor owner doesn't have it around his neck or in an obvious could be dangerous situation, it's still more likely the hot owner could get hurt. like previously said, they both defensively bite, but the hots get you and you're done. if you're smart and don't hold your constrictor on your neck, i would never see an issue with large constrictor owning.

do you not think before u write ur dp is s constictor around your neck

[Aaron_S]

Let's just let the thread die. Please. The horse is nothing but a worn down skeleton at this point.