New baby Northern Pacific (my first hot)

[RandyRhoads420]

My Jack*** buddy just caught this little guy for me he's no more than 5" long. I say jack*** because he pulled it out by it's tail and threw it at me thinking it be funny. He looks like a newborn, only has one button. I haven't got him to eat yet even pinkys look like they're too big for him. Any suggestions on feeding him? What do they eat if they're too small for pinkys?

[Lankyrob]

If he is that young why not just put him back? Do you even want him? As for your "mate" maybe find a big hole to put him in?

[infernalis]

If he is that young why not just put him back? Do you even want him? As for your "mate" maybe find a big hole to put him in?

Prudent words from a very wise man....

[marvelfreak]

What kind of snake is the other one or is that a worm? How long have you had him? He might just need time to settle in. It looks like you need to put a couple hides in there. Also remove the extra cage mate, so it's just him and one food item. Put it in at night around dusk. When they're most active this might help. If you just got him i give him a week to settle in. Then try feeding him again.

[Freebody]

nice little guy, i would love to get a hot one day but im sure it would litteraly be the last thing i ever did so maybe ill just look at pics , i wish you the best of luck that you stay safe :)
as for you buddy.....few choice words for him to say the least....

[RandyRhoads420]

Yes i've wanted a baby rattlesnake for quite a while. Been looking for diamondbacks, Northern Pacifics , and Mojave greens every hot day i've had a chance. As for the other snake that was a sharp tail snake I threw in for a few minutes to see if he'd eat it then i let it go once he didn't. I just put in a water dish half log hide and aspen shavings the pics were like that because i was excited and couln't wait to take them before fixing his cage up.

Yeah my friend had total disregard for his own safety and respect to the dangerous snake by freehandling it with no snake experience what so ever.... I must admit it's weird though he never has struck at me and barely will rattle.

[Nafun]

Do you, or your local hospital have antivenom?
Can you afford the bill for the inevitable trip to the ER?
Do you have a snake hook and tongs, and experience using them?

If you answered no to any of those questions, I urge you to let the little guy go.
Two kinds of people keep hot snakes. Experienced dedicated herpetoculturists with lots of experience, patience, and the appropriate supplies, and people who will inevitably be riding to the hospital clutching a swelling hand and cursing.

[RandyRhoads420]

Yes.
They'll treat me.
Yes.


Trust me it will be secure. I will be carefull. I don't care so much as getting bit as paying for it.

[Nafun]

Keep in mind that snake bites from captive snakes are seldom covered by insurance.

[Will0W783]

In the US, if they can find ANY evidence that the bite was from a captive snake that you willingly handled, NO insurance company that I am aware of will cover any bite-related costs. A single vial of antivenin can be several thousand dollars, and it usually takes 4-8 vials to treat a single bite, at the minimum. Not to mention the ER costs, doctors' payments, medicines, surgeries if needed and time off from work to recover. I do not think workers' compensation covers captive snake bites either.
Not to say that you will get bitten, just to say you need to make sure you can cover yourself IF you did get bitten. The chance of death and the inevitable pile o' bills that would result from a bite are the main reasons why I don't keep hots. I simply don't trust myself not to get tagged, being as I get bitten by my non-venomous snakes at least once a month.
He is a cute little one though, so best of luck with him. Once you get him eating, you will want to treat him with Panacure to get rid of any worms he will most likely have. Almost all wild-caught snakes have internal parasites and Panacure does a pretty good job of getting rid of them. Also if you can get your hands on any Flagyl you'll want to treat with that too, but it's hard to find these days. I can't recall the dosage off the top of my head for each, but a google search on treating worms in snakes will tell you.

[infernalis]

Since this photo is not for the faint of heart, I will not use the IMG codes to display it...

Click this link if you want to see what a single rattlesnake bite can do to you.

Snake Bite Damage (http://media.ebaumsworld.com/2007/08/Picture1big.jpg)

[Nafun]

I sincerely wish I hadn't clicked that link.

I will never own a hot snake now.
I will never go field herping again.
Screw it, I'm moving to the yukon.

[infernalis]

I sincerely wish I hadn't clicked that link.

I will never own a hot snake now.
I will never go field herping again.
Screw it, I'm moving to the yukon.

Then what would be the point in living?? field herping is a very interesting way to observe our scaly friends in their native surroundings.

Just don't stick your hands down inside hollow tree stumps, and you will be fine.

[Nafun]

Field herping is a very interesting way to get bit on the ankle by that copperhead you accidentally stepped on.



Fixed.

Though now I do actually have an urge to go hiking through the wetlands. Unfortunately the flood warnings that have been up for my county all week probably mean the wetlands are a little more wet than I'd prefer. Maybe I'll just put some black rubber mats in the sun and pretend lifting them up counts as field herping!

[infernalis]

Speaking of wetlands, I was just out on a cove today and picked up 2 really nice turtles from the road and put them back in the water so they would not get run over.

Just wish I had the camera with me.

[BlindOne]

Since this photo is not for the faint of heart, I will not use the IMG codes to display it...

Click this link if you want to see what a single rattlesnake bite can do to you.

Snake Bite Damage (http://media.ebaumsworld.com/2007/08/Picture1big.jpg)

Were they performing a fasciatomy?

[Lankyrob]

Not sure of the technical terms but they slice the flesh so that there is room for the expansion of the tissues caused by the venom.

I will only look at hots from behind some nice tough glass i think!!

[shaunyboy]

Were they performing a fasciatomy?

id say thats exactly what the procedure is mate.i am unsure of the spelling though.its pronounced fas ee octo mee

i was just trying to find out how to spell faciaoctomy (couldnt find how to spell it).i had one performed on my right thigh after a car crash.its when the swelling gets so bad it shuts down vascular pressure by squeezing your veins shut.so you have no blood supply to the area thats swelled.they cut you the legnth of the swelling to allow the veins some space so the blood flow continues.if they dont do it the whole area goes black and dies.then you loose the limb involved.my right thigh is now just one big clump of muscle as apposed to separate ones.also left me with 14 inch and 7 inch scars.not a pretty sight.if ever there was a case of a picture saying more than a thousand words i reckon that pic qualifys infernalis.
cheers shaun

[BlindOne]

id say thats exactly what the procedure is mate.i am unsure of the spelling though.its pronounced fas ee octo mee

i was just trying to find out how to spell faciaoctomy (couldnt find how to spell it).i had one performed on my right thigh after a car crash.its when the swelling gets so bad it shuts down vascular pressure by squeezing your veins shut.so you have no blood supply to the area thats swelled.they cut you the legnth of the swelling to allow the veins some space so the blood flow continues.if they dont do it the whole area goes black and dies.then you loose the limb involved.my right thigh is now just one big clump of muscle as apposed to separate ones.also left me with 14 inch and 7 inch scars.not a pretty sight.if ever there was a case of a picture saying more than a thousand words i reckon that pic qualifys infernalis.
cheers shaun

Correct spelling is fasciotomy, I got it wrong :) I was under the impression that this procedure was usually ill advised when dealing with snakebite but maybe that thinking has changed? Sorry to hear about the incident involving your leg, that sounds intensely painful. Are you fully healed?

Another bite pic - From C.atrox (Western DB)

http://venomous.com/Photos/armpic.jpg

[RandyRhoads420]

Well I came home today and both pinkys were gone and he looks a little fatter :) Where can I get ahold of Panacure?


I appreciate you're concern but i'm very aware of the damages should I get tagged. That pic looked better than most battle wounds :no: My concerns are more along the lines of bills and hope I could convince them i got tagged while gardening or something .

Right now he's very small and i can use tongs to move him for cleanings without him coming even 3 times in striking range(and he still has never even attempted to strike:confused:). If I don't feel comfortable with him once he's bigger i'll find him a new home. Right now i'm applying for Ramirez Rattlesnake Removal. Or anything to gain some good experience from professionals.

[BlindOne]

Right now he's very small and i can use tongs to move him for cleanings without him coming even 3 times in striking range(and he still has never even attempted to strike:confused:).

Couple of things, I never used tongs, especially with an animal that small, because of the possibility of injuring the animals. I recommend a small collapsible hook. The other thing, the animal probably isn't striking because it's very stressed.

He needs a quiet dark hide and to be left alone for a week or two so he can acclimate. Rattlers at this size are an easy meal so he's going to be terrified of everything.

[RandyRhoads420]

How does this look for him? Hide decent enough?

Any tips on where to get experience with hots? OR reccomended reads?

[Nafun]

that hide is way way too big.

to feel secure, he's going to want to be able to touch all sides of his hide.

I recommend a piece of flat cork bark. It's light enough that they can burrow under it and flat enough that they feel completely hidden.

If you want to go cheaper than cork bark (it runs pretty high at pet stores), get a small plastic container, like dip comes in, and cut a couple of small holes. The smaller the hide, the safer the snake will feel.

[BlindOne]

How does this look for him? Hide decent enough?

Any tips on where to get experience with hots? OR reccomended reads?

IMO, you want a hide that he can barely squeeze into, the more restrictive it is, the more secure he feels. I usually use the little butter cups for small snake, just cut a hole in the side. Another option would be something like the Glad disposable cups.

As far as getting experience, that's a hard one. Not that many hot keepers out there to start with, perhaps you could volunteer at a zoo if you have one close? Keeping hots is more about attitude, IMO, than experience. If you are the type who simply must handle the animals (milking, freehandling, etc), venomous isn't going to be for you because you'll eventually get bitten. If you are content to simply watch them and learn to use hideboxes, hooks, etc, you can minimize both your chances of being bit and the animal's stress level. I kept hots for about 10 years and never came close to getting bitten.

[RandyRhoads420]

Unfortunately no zoo here and I'm glad to hear you put it that way....very content without handling it. I have plent of other snakes to handle, The only time i've ever been bit by any (even my rediculously ill tempered Carpet) is when i deserved it and knew I was going to. Funny you mention dip cans i have an empty one right on the tank i'll try that.

[Nafun]

Uh, just to specify, I mean chip dip, not tobacco. Nicotine is poison.

[Lankyrob]

Correct spelling is fasciotomy, I got it wrong :) I was under the impression that this procedure was usually ill advised when dealing with snakebite but maybe that thinking has changed?

It is thought that releasing the vascular pressure allows venom to move more freely around your body - however there is a point where the chance of losing a limb due to the flesh dying due to no blood flow outweighs that threat from venom moving freely.

[emseeKAY]

I sincerely wish I hadn't clicked that link.

I will never own a hot snake now.
I will never go field herping again.
Screw it, I'm moving to the yukon.

lol yukon isnt too bad ;) Its Nunavut thats a real treat lol, that was a 13 year old boy if i'm not mistaken, i read the story i forget what species it was that he was bitten by

[infernalis]

Yukon does not sound so bad after all....

look what I found. I can keep my "garter fetish" and live there too.

Range/Habitat: The Red-sided Garter Snake is found from Chihuahua in Mexico to the Yukon territory in Canada. It is found in a wide range of habitats including marshes, along streams, fields, woodlands and urban parks and yards. In the norther part of its range, the Red-sided Garter Snake hibernates for up to seven months a year in huge groups of several thousand snakes.

[emseeKAY]

during the summer its moderately warm there, not sure of the exact temps but i know that it doesnt snow up there all year round like some people think it does in Canada lol obviously its harsher up there but amazing views, wouldnt mind a visit up there one day. its not exactly inhabited, i think in nunavut the population is somewhere between 20,000-30,000 and about 90% being inuit. actually police officers, doctors, etc get pretty decent signing bonus' for living up there for a few years ;) ah? ah? free healthcare? :D

[infernalis]

Give me a cabin on a lake in the middle of 1000 acres with a generator and satellite dish with a dock and heli pad, I would be in heaven.

There must be no roads leading to my cabin either.

[Lankyrob]

Am the same Wayne - i want isolation (with electricity and high speed broadband!!!)

[shaunyboy]

Correct spelling is fasciotomy, I got it wrong :) I was under the impression that this procedure was usually ill advised when dealing with snakebite but maybe that thinking has changed? Sorry to hear about the incident involving your leg, that sounds intensely painful. Are you fully healed?

Another bite pic - From C.atrox (Western DB)

http://venomous.com/Photos/armpic.jpg


the crash was back in 1994.it took 3 years to learn to walk again and my leg is 2 inches shorter than the other one.i have a metal plate running the length of my right femur that has a big bolt drilled right into the ball that fits into my pelvis.as long as the plate holds i get to keep my leg.the plate interestingly was made by ferrari the motor company.they produce a lot of the worlds surgical steel implants.doc reckoned 2005 would be about as long as it would hold but here i am in 2010 still all is well.i'm happy with how it all went as on the night of my crash the first surgeon i saw wanted to amputate there and then.luckily for me the second surgeon was optomistic he could save my leg for at least 10 years.i'm glad to say here i am 15 years later and my legs still doing good.bit of pain here and there but the main thing is ive still got both my legs.so thank god for good surgeons.

re fasciotomy its a last resort treatment.if they dont do it the swelling shuts down all the blood supply to the affected area and it dies.so it might be a case of its not recomended with snake bites but if the swelling gets to the stage where its killing flesh.then they have no other route to take.i think its not so much what caused the swelling but a case of how much irrevocable damage the swelling is causing that determines if they go ahead with the procedure.this is only my opinion.
cheers shaun

p.s.another scary picture mate.

[infernalis]

The other big company that makes them Shaun is Synthes , It's scary but they have mastered a new form of bone repair that is a form of cement that is made from real powdered bone!

Synthes North America - Products (http://us.synthes.com/Products/Biomaterials/)

Ok everyone, we have hijacked Randy's thread enough. If you guys want, I will gladly spin this off into it's own thread.

[RandyRhoads420]

Good stuff tho, lol.

[shaunyboy]

Give me a cabin on a lake in the middle of 1000 acres with a generator and satellite dish with a dock and heli pad, I would be in heaven.

There must be no roads leading to my cabin either.

my wife and i were talking about the ideal place to live if we won the lottery.similar to yours infernalis.

mine was an island that was only accessable by boat for 6 months of the year.the island itself had 3 sides that were shear cliffs (unable to grant access).the front side of the island had a small beach leading to our imaginary cottage that sat in a few acres of meadow land.also the biggest satellite dish we could buy.just me the mrs and our snake collection

bliss.....!!!

cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

The other big company that makes them Shaun is Synthes , It's scary but they have mastered a new form of bone repair that is a form of cement that is made from real powdered bone!

Synthes North America - Products (http://us.synthes.com/Products/Biomaterials/)

Ok everyone, we have hijacked Randy's thread enough. If you guys want, I will gladly spin this off into it's own thread.

up to you mate.sorry for the high jack randy.it happens quite a lot on here,haha

i wish they had that biometric stuff back then.for me they cut an inch strip 6 inches long of my hip part of my pelvis.they then put it through a grinder that made it the same consistancey of candy floss.they then packed all the missing parts of my femur with it to aid bone growth.


back when i done my leg they were pioneering coral imlants.they implanted coral that hardened and temperarily took the place of the bone.the coral allowed your bone to grow through it.as your bone grew that part of the coral died off.eventually the bone grew in and replaced the coral.it was down to having loads of cash to pay for it so i had to just give up on that idea.i was told the reason ferrari does all the surgical steel is because years ago they went and reclaimed a lot of metal off the british battle ship fleet that was scuppered of scapa flo up in the shetland isles off the scottish coast.what made the metal so special was it had escaped contamination by radiation natural and other sources.they stripped the metal back in clinically sterile laboratorys.then vacum stored it so it could not be contaminated and used for human implants.a human body rejects what doesnt belong to it most times.this is why the steel has to be so sterile and free of any kind of contamination.when i was in hospital the poor guy in the next beds leg kept rejecting his implant.this resulted in little boils appearing then gangerine setting in.it took them the best part of 2 years to get it to take.i was more fourtunate as mine took first time and ive no problems with it at all.once again sorry for high jacking the thread randy.
cheers shaun

[RandyRhoads420]

Nah feel free :P crazy stuff....

[RandyRhoads420]

Wow scary stuff. I put a rat in his tank to see the effects of the poison. First bite was dry. But after 3-5 minutes of the second....well ... I have even more respect for this creature. Guess he does strike after all.

[Lankyrob]

Wow scary stuff. I put a rat in his tank to see the effects of the poison. First bite was dry. But after 3-5 minutes of the second....well ... I have even more respect for this creature. Guess he does strike after all.


Was this just some random experiment or was it feeding time?? If its the first then that is damn cruel in my opinion. :no::no:

[RandyRhoads420]

Let me clarify a little. I didn't do it to be cruel I wanted to witness what would happen to me should I get bit. I didn't waste the rat either I fed it to my kingsnake.

[Lankyrob]

Wouldn;t the rat have the venom in its bloodstream?? How does this affect the kingsnake?

May not have wanted to be cruel but it seems pretty inhumane to let a rat be attacked by a venomous snake "to see what would happen"...........

[dragunov.762]

kingsnakes have a tolerance for rattler venom and it is safe to drink (might make you sick but wont kill you) kingsnakes often eat rattle snakes in the wild

[infernalis]

I have to agree with Rob..........

[dragunov.762]

i was not saying one way or the other i was just stating a fact that the venom will not hurt the king snake

[Lankyrob]

Sorry - but to me it is cruel to let a rat be attcked by a venomous snake if it is not in the process of feeding that snake - is my opinion and i am open to be convinced otherwise.

[Will0W783]

Randy, if you wanted to see what would happen, I'm sure a google search would have found you pictures and/or video, without having to put an animal in there for the heck of it. I really think you'd be much wiser letting the rattler go free- you have not demonstrated any real experience with or knowledge of hots. For your sake, I hope you don't become one of the statistics.

[Nafun]

Don't listen to her Randy.

We've got a pot going on when you're going to get bit. One dollar per day. Still prime temporal real estate left! Pot is at $318, and if you can see to it that your rattlesnake bites you between july 7th 2010 and july 11th 2010, I'd be willing to split it with you.

[percey39]

Nafun I think you being a bit of idiot right now, I would not like to see anyone get bitten. As i have seen the results after friends have and its not pretty. It takes a fairly long to fully recover.

[Lankyrob]

Don't listen to her Randy.

We've got a pot going on when you're going to get bit. One dollar per day. Still prime temporal real estate left! Pot is at $318, and if you can see to it that your rattlesnake bites you between july 7th 2010 and july 11th 2010, I'd be willing to split it with you.

Seems everyone is trying to give good advice and help and you are making a joke out of someone being tagged by a rattler?? How old are you??

[Nafun]

Oi, stop overreacting, that was a sarcastic attempt at reverse psychology.

This entire thread has been about Randy getting tons of good advice, and ignoring *all* of it.

I don't want to see anyone get bit. It would mean terrible press for the snake keeping hobby, and the poor snake would probably end up put down.

Was I making light of a very serious situation? Yes.
Is it reasonable to think I was seriously suggesting someone should let themselves get bit in order to collect $159? No.

[infernalis]

Play nice folks ;)

[RandyRhoads420]

Wow it's really quite simple. Don't put yourself within a few feet of striking distance. Make sure cages are secure. Know what to do should you so happen to get bit. God I don't care. Treat it like a loaded gun. Respect it. Pretty simple. Alot of advice. Great. Thank you everyone.

[infernalis]

Play nice folks ;)


See above ;)

Good to see you on tonight, how is the little guy doing??

any new pics to share, I for one would like to see them.

It's 3:00 am i'm off to bed.

[marvelfreak]

:)I was just wondering the same. How is the little guy doing? And can't wait to see more pics. :) Plus some of your kingsnake.:)

[Evra0914]

I sincerely wish I hadn't clicked that link.

I will never own a hot snake now.
I will never go field herping again.
Screw it, I'm moving to the yukon.
yea i wish i hadn't clicked on it either! :no:

[RandyRhoads420]

He's doing great he can eat adult mice now wich is crazy because his heads about the size of my pinky, and he looks like he's going to explode after one. I will upload pics soon. Also just got an adult NorPac. Alot more care in Handling for cage cleaning but still pretty simple. I have a 6-7 foot peice of PVC with a wire loop and cable. Makes handling a breeze. I'll upload pics of him too. My RTB is more fierce. For some reason he's started being violent.

[RandyRhoads420]

Man it's great to hear people tell a war vet who was blown up and shot at on a daily basis that what he's doing MIGHT be dangerous enough to kill him.

[percey39]

Mate no need to get silly about this. Yes some people were very arrogant in how they came across, but i dont think it was meant to be that way. Im sure you are well aware of the risks, as hot keepers we all are. I would imagine that it would be a hell of a lot easier and less stressfull for the little guy if you were to just use a hook. If you dont know how to use a hook properly i would suggest practising on some of your non venomous snakes first. I know it sounds silly but there is an art for using a hook on hots.

I would love to see some feeding pics please.

[infernalis]

Really you should be flattered that a group of strangers care enough about what happens to you that they expressed concern at all ;)

[Nafun]

Man it's great to hear people tell a war vet who was blown up and shot at on a daily basis that what he's doing MIGHT be dangerous enough to kill him.

The fact that you joined the army during a war might indicate that you're not good at judging danger, hence all the warnings!

Also, I think "armed bomb" might be a better metaphor than "loaded gun. The important thing though is to be careful and I'm glad you're taking it seriously, and hope for the best.

[Freebody]

joining the military during a war has nothing to do with judging danger at all, joining the military is about doing something to help your brothers in arms and your country. at least thats why i tried to join this year although it is to late to get into the canadian army for me now, they stopped recruiting for armed forces months ago and wont be hring any for what im told a couple years minimum. My greatest respect goes out to you randyrhoads and any and all members of any military.

[Nafun]

I don't want to get into an argument about military, war, and the ethics there of. Or to put it another way, I do want to get into the argument, I very much want to. However, I am not going to. This is a forum about snakes, and out of respect for that, I hold my tongue.

There is a time and a place for fiery rhetoric filled discourse on the military, but a forum for reptile lovers is not it.

[marvelfreak]

joining the military during a war has nothing to do with judging danger at all, joining the military is about doing something to help your brothers in arms and your country. at least thats why i tried to join this year although it is to late to get into the canadian army for me now, they stopped recruiting for armed forces months ago and wont be hring any for what im told a couple years minimum. My greatest respect goes out to you randyrhoads and any and all members of any military.
I second everything Freebody say. To me it takes a really brave man to sign up during a war. You have my heart felt thanks Randy.

[never25]

To me it takes a really brave man to sign up during a war. You have my heart felt thanks Randy.

very true. thanks

[RandyRhoads420]

I really do appreciate peoples concern but post after post about how dangerous it is and how stupid I am for trying get old. Especially when there's a pot for how long untill I get bit. And to you Nafun.... Obviously war is dangerous my 6 year old brother could have told you that, and the fact I did it anyway wsn't ignorance it took alot of thought on each end pros and cons. So you can kindly go...
have a nice day. :)

[infernalis]

In the interest of keeping peace in our community, I am closing this now.

Randy, if you want to show us your snake and it's progress, as I do hope you will, please start a new thread.