Kink spine

[Crystal2010]

My friend just got a Ball python male with a kink on the back. I have read up on this and found that is a genetic condition. She said she was told from the lady that someone dropped the top lid of the cage on it and that is the result. Is that possible? Well now she wants to breed her male to one of my females and if it is genectic do I want to do this or pass? What do I do????

[emseeKAY]

Ive never heard of breeding a kinked spine? im pretty sure its just a physical defect or abnormality that would occur, not something you can breed... why you would ever want to breed a snake to have a kinked spine is beyond me...

[percey39]

i have seen these sort of things come up once in a blue moon in a clutch, you find one with a bent tail or similar. Its more common having defects like this from being dropped or crushed. I would not breed a snake like that myself but i wouldnt think you would have any major concerns if you decide to.

[infernalis]

I have a snake with a twisted spine, I know for a fact is a birth defect, since I have had this snake since birth, and never dropped anything on it.

I know a couple other people with some really kinked up snakes as well.

Personally I would refrain but I am to caring to "cull off" any babies that may get the same condition.

[Will0W783]

Good for you, Wayne! I don't think I could ever "cull off" any animals either.

[marvelfreak]

Put it this way. Would you buy a snake with a kink in it? Why breed a snake with a defected and chance being stuck with a bunch more? I myself would never do it.

[mykee]

Kinked spines are genetic with some morphs, namely the caramel (all lines of caramels kink from what I've heard).
Do you breed a kinked animal; no.
He's a pet.
Forever.

[infernalis]

We named her "Twisty" for her spinal condition.

I am amazed by this girls progress. She is a sweet snake to boot.

These three pics show the progress of this snake... It's amazing the changes she has gone through, I can't hardly tell she was ever handicapped.

Here she is in the first month of life... I almost was tempted to put her down, Dorothy talked me out of it.

http://www.thamnophis.us/secret/spinal.jpg


A few months later....

http://www.thamfriends.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=69&pictureid=1126

[Hillsberry]

In away that is kinda cool looking. Does it hurt the snake?

[infernalis]

she is living an otherwise normal life. she is growing bigger than the siblings, she is the alpha from the bunch.

Improving with age actually.

I see I said three pics, then missed one...

http://www.reptard.info/snake/twisty05.jpg

my friend has this one, look close at the stripe, his name is "Krinkle"

http://www.thamfriends.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=55&pictureid=1065

[citysnakes]

kinks can be genetic and a result of physical trauma. for example, anxious keepers who pop GTPs too early end up damaging the animal and permanently kink it. this can happen to other species aswell. if the kink is known to be genetic then dont breed it but if the kink is the result of a previous injury and the kinked animal is able to breed then one would have to consider the circumstance.

if you breed snakes you better be prepared to have the ability to cull hatchlings when the time arises. not all deformities in hatchlings require that the animal be culled but there may come a time where it is the humane thing to do.

[Will0W783]

My male GTP has kinks in his tail, but he is a proven breeder and doesn't seem to have any lasting damage from the kinks. They're right near the end of his tail- I think he was "popped" too early.

[Crystal2010]

I was only curious, I felt attacked by the earlier posts...
I saw it on another forum that someone was breeding a snake with a kink and personally felt it was wrong and now that my friend just got a snake that has a kink from unknown where abouts, I wanted to hear what this forum had to say. She was told the kink was from the top dropping down on it. But first how do you know that is true and secondly that to me is just irresoncible ownership.

[Good 'N Plenty]

Love the pics of the kinks for comparisson with my female rescue bp. From what the people who gave her to me know, the kinks were not there at birth, but 10 years old she is still going strong with no signs of slowing down. Nice to see shes not alone in thriving with kinks!

[marvelfreak]

I was only curious, I felt attacked by the earlier posts...
I saw it on another forum that someone was breeding a snake with a kink and personally felt it was wrong and now that my friend just got a snake that has a kink from unknown where abouts, I wanted to hear what this forum had to say. She was told the kink was from the top dropping down on it. But first how do you know that is true and secondly that to me is just irresoncible ownership. Sorry if you felt my post was a attack. Like everone here i am just very passionate my believes.

[infernalis]

if you breed snakes you better be prepared to have the ability to cull hatchlings when the time arises. not all deformities in hatchlings require that the animal be culled but there may come a time where it is the humane thing to do.

If the circumstances warrant, I have fed badly deformed baby snakes to our Savannah monitor. He also eats all stillborns too.

I feel a little better using them for food, it seems a little less wasteful.

I came to that way of thinking because I have carnivorous predators as pets, they kill to eat, it's the circle of life.

If an animal is not suffering, and it's quality of life is decent, I will keep it as a personal pet until it dies naturally.

[siz]

Off topic a bit, there is a guy I know who breeds mass amounts of dragons, cresteds, and colubrids and feeds them ones he can't sell off to his Sav. (not just unhealthy ones). I find this behaviour a bit disturbing, but feeding off an unhealthy hatchling or stillborn to your sav is a different thing entirely, in my mind. Circle of life and all that jazz..

PS. I voted no on the poll ;)

[infernalis]

That's just sick...

I have a few snakes I produced that are perfectly healthy, I sold them until there was no more interested parties...

I will keep them until they find suitable homes, but I would NEVER kill/feed/release them just because I want to save on my pinkie bills.

[siz]

It really bothers me. He breeds feeders too (insects) and has great prices but I don't like to associate myself with him...especially when he comes into the house and tells us his stories...when we have the same species he is talking about feeding off in a tank right behind us...
If you are going to breed animals, you need to be prepared to find the little guys homes, or have the means to take care of them yourself. If you don't, or don't give a rat's *** like this lovely fellow in question, probably shouldn't be keeping them to begin with..just my 2 cents though.

I suppose that bring me 'round full circle to the OT. I wouldn't breed the snake with a kinked spine because it could produce unhealthy or unsound offspring. The animals you produce and own are your responsibility and they should be treated with respect, not just thrown together to breed because you can. (Not saying that is your intention...just saying). I really wanted to breed a gorgeous trio of cresteds I have this year but I don't think the females are big enough. They are over the "acceptable weight" mark, but in my eyes I don't think they are 100% in every way to go ahead with breeding. These are some smokin' ladies and they are to be bred with a very nice male from the States, so these babies will be very nice, but it's not worth it to me to risk the health of my animals..Oh well, maybe next year. ;)

[infernalis]

That's a great way of thinking siz.

[shaunyboy]

just read this thread.

i agree with you all,i would not breed anything with defects that could be passed on.

the jaguar python co dom mutation sometimes throws up neuro issues.the jags have anything from head wobbles to doing full corkscrews around their tank.i would never breed a jag like this,also as long as a reptile wasnt in pain or suffering in any way i'd keep it and help it lead as good a life as it was capable of living.
cheers shaun

[emseeKAY]

Off topic a bit, there is a guy I know who breeds mass amounts of dragons, cresteds, and colubrids and feeds them ones he can't sell off to his Sav. (not just unhealthy ones). I find this behaviour a bit disturbing, but feeding off an unhealthy hatchling or stillborn to your sav is a different thing entirely, in my mind. Circle of life and all that jazz..

PS. I voted no on the poll ;)

I think i know who youre talking about if theyre in the peterborough area. Some people need a swift kick in the a$$ lol, its always nice to see idiots like that on youtube with 30 friends watching a 5 foot monitor rip apart a perfectly healthy beardie or a smaller monitor, yup...entertainment at its finest folks... makes me wonder about society.

[ball_mom]

I believe that breeding an animal that has some sort of skeletal deformity should not be done. If it is something genetic, then it will be passsed on to the offspring. If it were me, I wouldnt do it. I would want healthy snakes that I would be able to sell without difficulty. If I knew for a fact that the deformity was from a accident, then maybe I would consider it if I knew that it wouldnt harm the snake.

[Paradise]

I was only curious, I felt attacked by the earlier posts...
I saw it on another forum that someone was breeding a snake with a kink and personally felt it was wrong and now that my friend just got a snake that has a kink from unknown where abouts, I wanted to hear what this forum had to say. She was told the kink was from the top dropping down on it. But first how do you know that is true and secondly that to me is just irresoncible ownership.

Hi Crystal being new to this forum myself I can understand where you are coming from. I also know that no one here will attack you. If you ask a question you will be helped as far as possible and if you make a mistake you will be corrected or rather the correct methods will be suggested but please don't take that as an attack in any way. Some of the folk are ... lol all this folks are serious about snakes.
As far as snakes getting injured well sometimes accidents happen whether its through neglect or pure stupidity I cant answer that