Puff Adders

[jonny666]

Does anyone keep Puff Adders? If so what care and such do I need to know? I know they are from all over Africa, dry climate, was wondering if anyone kept any and how they were tempremant wise?

[Aaron_S]

I think you need to find a venomous forum. Most people here don't keep venomous snakes.

[gonesnakee]

I think that unless you have at least 10 years experience & a mentor to learn from for an additional few years you should not even remotely consider the idea, Mark

[jonny666]

I have experience with venomous. Over six years. Already own Hots. Was just wondering if anyone knew about Puffs.

[gonesnakee]

Sound like you are ready then.
I know when I worked in Africa in the Kalahari they killed everyone they encountered :o
From what I saw they appearred to be a fairly docile snake though, not much help eh? LOL Mark

[jparker1167]

where in the US are you jonny? what venomous snakes have you kept.

puff adders are very dangerous and tend to be very aggressive.. i keep mine with a hot side of around 85-86F they are normally very good eaters and are usually quit to bite the hand that feeds them lol.

[jonny666]

In PA. Have Rattlers. Worked with Cobras and Gabbies.

[jparker1167]

well i keep mine the same as i keep my gaboons. puffs are just more quick to bite

[Joel La Rocque]

It does not say how old you are, just six years experience? I have a little over 40 years experience now and my rule is simple: I never order or keep any venomous species of snake that I have to ask anyone any type of question about them or their upkeep. Find a mentor and stick to him like glue! If you have to ask any form of question you are not ready and I don't care if you have 40 years in the business. If I called anyone that knew me and asked them a question about a snake they would cut my supply off with out thinking twice. A Puff Adder will put your but in a hole quick and you wont see it coming. Ask yourself right now #1: Who has the closest supply of anti venom? Is any doctor within 100 miles of me familiar with a Puff Adder bite? Do I have medical insurance that will pay for any attempts at saving my life? How close is my nearest neighbor, should this snake escape? Do I have insurance for that event? Do I have the proper containment for keeping this animal? Do I care enough for the people who live with me, should it tag a loved one?
The list of "what ifs" is never ending. A common Eastern Diamondback will cost about $30.000 to treat its bite. Who is going to pay the tab? Is such an animal allowed in your state and do you have the proper licensing to keep one? Do yourself a big favor and forget the Puff Adders and the Malayan Pit Vipers. If you want to see one, go to a Zoo where you will be safe.

[jonny666]

I'm 34. No venomous laws where I live other then can not keep native species. The only reason I asked about Puffs is someone offered them free in a trade. Decided against it. Picking up some more WDB's instead.

[jparker1167]

joel are you saying that having 6 years experience handling venomous snakes is not enough for him to keep a puff adder ? after he said hes worked with gaboons and cobras? i had 2 years keeping venomous when i got my puff adders havent had a problem.

[mps725]

I think what Joel is saying that despite having 40 years of experience, he has been bitten 50+ times... so with all the experience in the world.. a puff adder or equally aggressive snake is going to be a challenge. That is what I gathered from it.

-MPS

[jparker1167]

him being bit has nothing to do with any other keeper there are tons of keepers out there that have kept snakes for 40 years and have not take any where near that amount of bites. i have a friend that started keeping puff adders as his first snake and he was 14 years old then. everyone's different

[jparker1167]

mps do you go to the harmor show and the mars shows i see you are in pittsburgh im near there too.

[MacAdder]

I catch & release snakes and keep puff Adders. Not a good snake to get tagged by thats for sure.

[dexter 1988]

JOEL LA ROCQUE your being a **** just because u have 40 years experience how is one to get info on snakes like that dont get me wrong no one should get if they have little to know experience but he has 6year with venomous and for this commentIf you want to see one, go to a Zoo where you will be safe it just backsme up that u a ***

[MacAdder]

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q179/Snakes_Incorporated/DSC01415.jpg
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q179/Snakes_Incorporated/DSC01426.jpg

[Predator678]

Hey jonny. Im 14,i have a juvenile female puff. I wouldnt recommend any handling,save for moving it with a hookstick for cage maintenance. Mine and all the others ive encountered seem to know their own ability,they are agressive as hell,and trust me,you wont c it comin,i have friends who have had some nasty encounters. But a beautiful and rewarding species indeed:)

[percey39]

I dont think anyone who has copped that many bites should really say too much about keeping any vens to be honest. I have not been tagged yet by any of mine (touches wood) and they are easily handled, but adders are in a league of their own as they are just so quick to bite anything that moves. Given i keep death adders which are shorter and stockier, i cant add too much to the keeping of puffs. If they are like deaths then you cant really tail them as they can swing right round and still hit you. Very interesting species to keep. Great pics and lovely snakes macadder

[Predator678]

hey percey,id love to see some pics of your death adders,they rank 2nd on my top 3 favourite list ! i just love them ! And yes,a puff will simply swing round,hit you,pull back and hit again all in the time of you blinking your eyes and it will still take another second or two for you to realise what had happened. Not a species to get zapped by. Ive seen it happen,you wont believe it !

[Predator678]

My sub adult female puff(Bitis arietans)
8994

[gonesnakee]

No disresect, but I personally think minors should be restricted from keeping venomous snakes & don't think anyone with less than 10 years experience keeping snakes should keep them either.
Anyone that does keep them should have been "apprenticed" by an experienced venomous keeper for at least a few years prior as well IMHO
Those that keep them should also have an ERP in place at all times, proper locking enclosures in a locked room & ensure the staff of the local hospital is aware of what they keep & has the corect antivenom on hand already or have it stocked by the venomous keeper him or herself.
Of course someone located in SA the hospitals there are or should be ready to deal with all the native species of course, not the same as an exotic species being kept where it is not native which is an issue for treatment.
My 2 cents plus on responsible venomous keeping, Mark
P.S. oh & no free handling ever, always with hooks & tongs, only when required ;)

[Predator678]

I appreciate ur opinion Mark. And yes.only handling that takes place is for cleaning cages,which are locked:)

[gonesnakee]

THX for not taking it as a personal attack asit was not meant to be, even though I used yourself as somewhat of an example.
One would assume that being from SA you likely have had more exposure to them in your life than the average Joe has.
My very limited experience in reaguards to them is all bad :o
When I worked in the Kalahari Desert many years ago ALL found were killed :(
They were considered a threat as we were in the middle of nowhere with ZERO aid if there were ever a bite, literally 2 days drive from anywhere.
Still I found them to be very docile, but the natives we worked with insisted on killing them all as they were considered a risk to life & limb if left alive, sad but true.
I'd imagine them having personally known folks that had been bit etc. had a lot to do with it all, but still pretty disheartening to kill everything based on fear etc. Mark

[Predator678]

Not a problem,were not little kids(even though im pretty close,i guess:))I completely agree,many people around here will kill a snake without thinking twice. Thats a sad reality. Yes,i have had more exposure which is a bonus. All ive had to do with were very agressive though. You can see some of my other hots in the "welcome or new to ssnakess forum" something like that. The cobras are a whole different story,and im much more vigilant with them.

[gonesnakee]

I was personally somewhat happy that I never encountered any Cobras or Mambas in my months in the desert LOL
Working there in such remoteness with zero medical backup leaves a few things to be desired anyways LOL Mark

[Predator678]

Haha cool,a mamba is not a snake to mess with,at all,ever !

[Predator678]

Not a problem,were not little kids(even though im pretty close,i guess:))I completely agree,many people around here will kill a snake without thinking twice. Thats a sad reality. Yes,i have had more exposure which is a bonus. All ive had to do with were very agressive though. You can see some of my other hots in the "welcome or new to ssnakess forum" something like that. The cobras are a whole different story,and im much more vigilant with them.
"new to the forum?" is what i meant in there. Enjoy the pics,and please do post some interesing ones on there. :)

[MacAdder]

I keep Snouted, Forest, Cape Cobra and others. The animal I respectfully fear would be my puff Adders.
These are arguably the fastest sticking snake on the planet. The cytotoxic tissue damage is legendary.

[Predator678]

I also had 2 snouties for a while,but released them a few months ago. I havent had much to do with the cape cobra,but i love them,they are our most beautiful cobra species along with the M'fezi and coral snake(Aspidelaps lubricus). For sure,ive seen some really nasty bites.

[gonesnakee]

Correct me if I am wrong but are Puff Adders not responsible for more deaths in Africa than any other snake?
Mostly due to the lack of access to antivenom in time due to the remote areas the bites most often occur in.
Where I was working in the Kalahari it was a full days drive to the closest HUTS & at least 2 days to an actual medical facility.
Thats IF one had any form of transport other than by foot of course. Mark

[Predator678]

Yes that is correct. I have heard that the saw scaled viper is more dangerous,but i would go with the puff adder,as it is more widely distributed and is found all over Africa. So even though the boomslang(Dispholidus typus) is the most toxic drop for drop,the puff adder is surely the most dangerous.

[MacAdder]

...are Puff Adders not responsible for more deaths in Africa than any other snake?...
No Puff Adders are responsible for the most snakebites on the African continent but not deaths.
The Black Mamba though bites far less victims in comparison is the snake species responsible for the most deaths in Southern Africa.

[percey39]

hey percey,id love to see some pics of your death adders,they rank 2nd on my top 3 favourite list ! i just love them ! And yes,a puff will simply swing round,hit you,pull back and hit again all in the time of you blinking your eyes and it will still take another second or two for you to realise what had happened. Not a species to get zapped by. Ive seen it happen,you wont believe it !
I will have to put some more pics up of some different snakes. I have just been so lazy and havent had any time lately. I find the deaths are the only snake i own that i would not free handle, as they do strike and envenomate in a blink of an eye.

[jparker1167]

shouldn't free handle anything makes all keepers look bad, i have 3 adult puffs right now and the one is pretty laid back but the other two are very jump i guess i would say.

[percey39]

I do not reccomend free handling nor do i condone inexperienced keepers doing it. I find all captive snakes can be handled if you know what you are doing and know the snake extremely well. You should always have someone else around and emergency procedures in place while doing anything such as cleaning and checks. I find inexperience is the major reason behind our government looking down on elapid keeping, as they are the most likely to be bitten. We have a poor system in place where i live, as soon as you are 18 you are legally aloud to go out and get an advanced license. This means as soon as your 18 here you can go out and purchase an inland taipan. This is a huge floor in our systems and leads to many inexperienced keepers becoming unstuck and bitten.

[Predator678]

Yup,same with the puffs here,not a chance of handling them ! So percey,ive heard that there was some dispute over which is the most venomous snake in the world-the inland taipan or the boomslang(Dispholidus typus) any idea on which it actually is ?

[Predator678]

MacAdder,isnt it the saw scaled viper that is responsible for the most deaths in Africa or something ?

[MacAdder]

I do not want to redirect the thread but in my humble opinion. If anyone (experienced or not) wants to free handle any potentially venomously life threatening animal should be ostracized and ignored due to the obvious lack of grey material.
In short anyone who free handles is an idiot that should be regarded as a danger to himself and others. I have stronger words but Ill leave that you’re your imagination.

[MacAdder]

Predator saw-scaled vipers or carpet vipers are found in the dry regions of Africa, the Middle East, Pakistan,India and Sri Lanka.
This animal cause problems in populated areas such as in Pakistan,India and Sri Lanka but not really in Africa.

[Predator678]

I know where they occur,and here in africa mostly in north africa. But i just asked because im not certain. I heard someone mention something like that once. Do u know then which snake is responsible for the most deaths in africa ?

[percey39]

I think the way we do test with mice is a prime example of "how not to know" the lethal dosage from the venomous snakes. In my eyes the genetic make up of mice is completely different to humans. I understand that there is no way of really knowing the actual effects on humans unless we record and study previous bite reactions. The problem being with the inland taipan is it has none to minimal records with wild encounters, we can only go off the odd one or two that pop up rarely. From my understanding the inland taipan is still number 1.
Macadder i understand your point of view but i have my own. In my eyes we all take risks just trying to lead a normal life. This is just my opinion.

[MacAdder]

Percey I agree that the venom toxicology testing is floored as the boomslange is the most toxic land snake on this planet but will kill an adult (human) in about 72 hours. The thing is that the amount of venom needed is microscopic and without antivenom the survival chances are zero.
Back to handling free handling. There is no reason for this stupid act and if anyone wants to do it rather they keep it to themselves. To brag about this shows the individuals lack of mental maturity amongst other things.

[percey39]

Maybe the top spot may change in time but as for now its still the same. I would not like to cop a bite off either.
Mate you had your say about the issue just let it be. To go on like this seems very childish, at no point was i bragging. The internet can be misleading in the way you interpret others. There are more than just me who do this, so just let it be. I hear your point, you have chose to read my post in the wrong way. Not trying to be rude just dont want an arguement to start over nothing, its my choice what i do with my life and its yours with yours.

[Predator678]

Ok,i was just about to say the same thing as macadder with the boomslang,it can take between 2 to 5 days for death to occur,but very little venom is needed. Im sure the taipans venom kills faster,but i dnt know. To macadder id like to say that i agree with percey,it is easy to mis interperet things said via the net. But i understand your point and respect your opinion. As i dont freehandle hots,ive only barehanded a gaboon once,a great experience. Even though i dont free handle them,i still have like this uncontrollable urge to just pick em up and play with em. Haha. And ive tailed a boomslang but i was nervous as hell ! But i understand where both of you are coming from,and i have utmost respect for guys who freehandle hots,some of them are just naturals. :)

[percey39]

The taipan has an incredible average yield of 44mg, with a potential to kill an adult human being in 45 minutes. This is one snake which deserves a lot of respect considering they can reach 9 foot in length and have a good size to them.

[MacAdder]

... i have utmost respect for guys who freehandle hots,some of them are just naturals. :)
This is where we differ in our opinion. People who free handle venomous do not deserve respect. In the end these morons get bit and the snakes and we the keepers get a bad name. Law makers are very quick to use statistics to ban the keeping of wild animals that affects all of us.
I have been working with snakes for about 30 years and been a volunteer snake catch & rescue for about the same time. I do occasionally take calculated risks but don’t brag about it. Percey if you think I am childish for bring a stupid ******** act of foolishness to light so be it.

[Predator678]

Thats hectic percey,coz i know a black mambas venom can cause paralysis within 45 mins,but to kill in that time is amazing ! What kind type of venom do they have ? I presume neurotoxic ? Well macadder,then we differ in opinion,but thats normal,people see things differently,i for one admire them.

[percey39]

You are right predator678 they have neurotoxins, myotoxins and procoagulants. All of which can be fatal

[Predator678]

Jeez,sounds nasty ! Wouldnt wanna get tagged by one of them,thats for sure ! What hots do you keep ?

[percey39]

I keep tigers, adders, collett's, eastern browns and copperheads. Soon to have a few more, trying to get some mulga's, red belly blacks and coastal taipans but trying to find some very pretty ones lol

[Predator678]

Awesome ! I love red bellied blacks and king browns,they are absolutely fantastic !

[percey39]

Yeah i love the mulgas too, im looking at getting alice springs locale as the are white with some black tipped scales. They look unreal. I want to get some real dark red redbellies as i want to start some line breeding with this species as a friend has an absolute stunner.

[Predator678]

Sounds amazing. Post some pics as soon as youve got them please ! Im just totally in love with them !

[Predator678]

Howzit percey ? Haven't been around for some time with school that started again and so on. Have you gotten your hands on any king browns yet ?

[MacAdder]

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q179/Snakes_Incorporated/Puffadder4.jpg
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q179/Snakes_Incorporated/Puffadder5.jpg
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q179/Snakes_Incorporated/Puffadder9.jpg
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q179/Snakes_Incorporated/Puffadder10.jpg

This 12 year old girl bitten by a puff adder lost her foot.

[Nafun]

This 29 year old male, ambushed by a picture of a puff adder bite, lost his lunch.

[percey39]

hmm pretty nasty, but i would say this bite has been left untreated for a very substantial amount of time. Always interesting to see worst case scenario survival pictures.

[percey39]

Howzit percey ? Haven't been around for some time with school that started again and so on. Have you gotten your hands on any king browns yet ?

Hey mate, im still searching for an alice springs king brown. I have found another locale of kingies im gonna be getting soon. Also ill be getting a western brown (gwarder snake) aswell. I picked up a couple of new adders, i posted a pick of one ofthe barkly's, but yet to get round to takin a pic of the djarra (will get some up of both soon)
How is your collection going, have you added any more?