feeding babies...ahhhhh...help

[ssnakeboy]

Finally
I have had babies and now I am having trouble feeding them, I have tried pinkies, rubbed in anole smell and blood, artificial scented pinkies, pinkies with brain exposed, pinkies rubbed on rat and I have as last resort had to assist feed them pinky heads! I have only one out of 5 that eats well, what else can I do? I have just had another batch of eggs hatch and I am dreading any more fussy eaters.........help. Does anyone have any good tricks to try?

[The Snake Guru]

What kind of snakes are we talking here?
~B~

[ssnakeboy]

They are green tree pythons

[TailsW/Scales]

They are green tree pythons

Sadly GTP babies are not always the most willing feeders regardless of what you do. Given the babies size are you trying fresh /newborn pinks? Sometimes the little ones love freshies.

One method that had worked for me was newborn pinks held by the tail with hemostats and gently tap the little neonate with the pinky. This causes a strike and more often then not a wrap. Again this is in my experience. Also was seemed to help the small ones was to boost up their humidity and heat. I'm talking like boosting the heat by one degree at a time. Couple that with the boosted humidity and the babies would eat.

If you are new to GTP babies then you may want (depending on your heat controls) only try this in serious baby steps and watch everything like a hawk.

How are your little babies set up? Can you post a picture and I can help you further and tell you how I had mine set up.
A female I used to have
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e393/tailswithscales/Aru.jpg

[The Snake Guru]

I'm going to have to agree with Christine on this....I've heard the tail tap works really well.

I guess I never ran into any issues with mine so I won't be much help here, but the advice already offered above is sound and you should follow it.

~B~

[gonesnakee]

How often are they being "pestered" with prey. If its more than once every 5-7 days thats what you are doing is pestering them, likely turning them off prey for even longer. Try once a week & do so at night. Are they all individually contained? If not do so ASAP. The sooner they are all kept individually the sooner they will eat. Keep them in shoebox rubbermaids or smaller & offer them the prey in their houses. Only interaction should be to change their water & to offer prey until they are established. Of course a nice quiet low traffic area is best as well. How old are they? Remember until they hatched all they did their whole lives prior was eat. Sometimes its just a matter of waiting them out. How long did you wait prior assist feeding them? If it was less than a month or 2, it was too soon. Unless they were/are becoming thin & lethargic that is. Good luck with them, Mark

[ssnakeboy]

I am attempting to feed every 4 days, perhaps too often. They were 6 weeks old when I began trying to assist feed. I have gently tapped tails noses and necks. I have offered fresh pinkies live and dead. They have been fed pinky heads x3 and they are looking thinand getting wrinkles, I am close to freezing them cause I feel that I have tried everything????? and I dont want thwm to suffer starvation.

[ToddBecker]

I would have to say if the whole clutch is nto eating then it is probably something to do with their set-up. You never did mention how they were set up and what the conditions are. ANd how is freezing them to death any more humane then starvation. Yes it would be quicker then starvation but it is far from instant. DO not give up on these guys and if you do give them to someone with the knowledge and ability to care for them properly. Todd

[reptilenut4sure]

I dont know if you have gotten them to eat yet. But I know that a couple of my baby snakes wouldn't eat either. I tried almost everything. So I tried a fuzzy/hopper mouse and they took it right away. It was a little big but now he's eating just fine. You might try somthing with hair? Just a idea.

[gonesnakee]

I dont know if you have gotten them to eat yet. But I know that a couple of my baby snakes wouldn't eat either. I tried almost everything. So I tried a fuzzy/hopper mouse and they took it right away. It was a little big but now he's eating just fine. You might try somthing with hair? Just a idea.

Excellent point! I too find that baby Boids will not accept prey sometimes if it does not have hair. Small fuzzies work good, Mark

[TailsW/Scales]

I dont know if you have gotten them to eat yet. But I know that a couple of my baby snakes wouldn't eat either. I tried almost everything. So I tried a fuzzy/hopper mouse and they took it right away. It was a little big but now he's eating just fine. You might try somthing with hair? Just a idea.

I'm sorry but I am going to have to disagree. Baby GTP's are senstive and anything to large almost always causes them to regurge and if they do that good luck getting them to feed at all. Smaller is better when feeding neonates. Larger more mobile mice tend to also make the snake afraid and they won't eat it.

Again this is just in my experiences.

[gonesnakee]

Another good point for GTPs vs other Boids, Mark

[ssnakeboy]

I have taken some advice and boosted temp by two degrees and another baby ate. They are at 86.5 degrees in tupperware containers just a bit smaller than a shoe box with many aeration holes on walls and lid. I mist them daily just enough so it is mostly dry before the next misting the paper towel in the bottom may still be a bit damp. Fresh distilled water only and a water bowl and a piece of dowelling to wrap and hang on. They are all individually housed and I disturb them as little as possible. The ambient room humidity is 77% outside of their misted containers. I have decided to continue trying and i appreciate all of your advice. I find that they will strike but not grab and if they grab then they just drop it. When I offer pinkies they seem to just want to cruise past the pinkie with no interest, and they only strike if I tap-tap-tap-tap-tap over and over the whole process can take up to 30-45 mins per snake x11. I am trying not to assist feed if i can avoid it but when the get wrinkly I feel they need something to get them by? I am an experienced snake keeper and I have had GTP's for years, just not neonates and I find this very challenging. I cant understand how it seems so easy for everyone else? maybe i will try a fuzzy head nxt time i have to use a pinky head that way it will not be too big because i am concerned that a whole fuzzy is too big.

[gonesnakee]

Distilled water? Very bad idea. You know that distilled water "leaches" minerals etc. from the snakes when they drink it right? I know of a few folks who have had their babies die by using distilled water for drinking water. Distilled water is not meant to be consumed unless you are on a "cleansing diet" & even then it is not safe to drink large quanties of it. Mark

[Kim Burge]

Don't know if you're still struggling with feeding your neonates but don't feel like you're the only one with this problem. Chondros are known problem feeders as neonates. Getting them started is a learned art and one best taught in person by someone with experience. Thankfully I had someone show me a couple of months into my first clutch and my second clutch was MUCH easier to start. I actually posted a couple of feeding videos on my web site for those with stubborn chondro neonates. Take a look at it and see if you find it helpful. I find that most people aren't been aggressive enough or spending enough time on each neonate. Also, I try stubborn feeders every 3-4 days. I start assist feeding pinky heads within the first month if they're aren't taking pinkies on their own.

Southern Chondros - Feeding Videos (http://southernchondros.com/feeding_video.shtml)

Good luck and feel free to contact me if you have any questions.

[RIBBIT]

thats to bad :(

[Kim Burge]

What's too bad? Did I miss something?

[Dr_Gonz0]

I have taken some advice and boosted temp by two degrees and another baby ate. They are at 86.5 degrees in tupperware containers just a bit smaller than a shoe box with many aeration holes on walls and lid. I mist them daily just enough so it is mostly dry before the next misting the paper towel in the bottom may still be a bit damp. Fresh distilled water only and a water bowl and a piece of dowelling to wrap and hang on. They are all individually housed and I disturb them as little as possible. The ambient room humidity is 77% outside of their misted containers. I have decided to continue trying and i appreciate all of your advice. I find that they will strike but not grab and if they grab then they just drop it. When I offer pinkies they seem to just want to cruise past the pinkie with no interest, and they only strike if I tap-tap-tap-tap-tap over and over the whole process can take up to 30-45 mins per snake x11. I am trying not to assist feed if i can avoid it but when the get wrinkly I feel they need something to get them by? I am an experienced snake keeper and I have had GTP's for years, just not neonates and I find this very challenging. I cant understand how it seems so easy for everyone else? maybe i will try a fuzzy head nxt time i have to use a pinky head that way it will not be too big because i am concerned that a whole fuzzy is too big.

Have they had their first shed yet?

[gonesnakee]

Still in strong disagreement to start intravening as soon as some folks suggest. Unless the snakes are becoming thin & lethargic I would not even consider to intravene prior 3 months, maybe longer. Quite often neonates are just not hungry enough to eat prior 3 months. It happens here every year with my Graybands & various other colubrids such as Mtn Kings etc. Quite a few various Carpets at my friends went 3-4 months before starting off this year just fine on their own as well as other years. My Diamonds this year most of them (around 1/2) started at 2.5-3 months old, one male went 4 months & has taken 3 back to back FT meals since on his own. Buddy also had a couple Jaguars go over 3 months prior eating on their own this year, 1 was a "4 monther" as well. All of them started on their own with no assist or FFs. Baby snakes can & will go a long time without food sometimes it is not ucommon. I will say it again, if not becoming thin & lethargic DO NOT INTRAVENE. Its my opinion that all the continual pestering & attempting to assist & FF too soon just puts them off food even longer. But hey what do I know anyway ;) Cheers Mark

[dave68]

Have they had their first shed yet?


I was going to ask the same thing and I completely agree with Mark "GONESNAKEE" patience and good luck!!

[ssnakeboy]

Thanks for all your suggestions, and Kim the videos are very helpful, we have given the remaining babies to a friend with snake experience to attempt feeding with very little sucess. We did end up with one GTP that ended up eating every time from the beginning. It seems that GTP's are VERY different than boas and pythons that we have had for 20+ years and never had these struggles, sure we have had snakes turn off food at times or delay their first feed but always ate with little encouragement. GTPs seem to be a very different challenge and a much more fragile/fussy neonate. What a learning experience!

[Kim Burge]

Hopefully your friend has had some luck with the neonates. Chondro babies sometimes take some intense pestering or scenting before they'll eat. I don't think their instinct is telling them that pinkies are food. There are a lot of people who do not assist feed as soon as I do. Neonate chondros hatch out around 12g and after 3-4 months you wouldn't have much chondro left without some nutrition. 8 weeks is usually the max amount of time to go without assist feeding but at that point you're looking at assisting an entire pinky down and that is something I'm not comfortable with. I say do whatever you're comfortable with because there is risk associated with assist feeding. Once they start eating well on their own you'll forget about the early difficult times!

[Brandon Osborne]

I'm sorry but I am going to have to disagree. Baby GTP's are senstive and anything to large almost always causes them to regurge and if they do that good luck getting them to feed at all. Smaller is better when feeding neonates. Larger more mobile mice tend to also make the snake afraid and they won't eat it.

Again this is just in my experiences.

I would have to agree and disagree. While a fuzzy would be too large for a neo gtp, they can actually take rather large meals. I have NEVER had a chondro regurge from a large meal.....and I don't feed on the conservative side like most chondro keepers. Smaller is only better for the first few feedings while the neo is getting used to mice. I have had yearlings from 10 gram babies to 350 grams in a year. I don't power feed, I just increase the size of the food more often that most.

Sometimes a mobile prey item will entice them to check out what the movement it. A method I learned from Rico Walder was quick movements to and from the snake. This really tends to rile them up. He did this with fresh imports neos right off the plane and it worked.

One thing you find out quickly is, baby chondros will test your nerves. They are not for impatient keepers and first time breeders learn this the hard way. A couple of years ago, Damon Salceies produced 160+(if I remember correctly) babies in one season. Imagine starting that many babies. Having 16 would be a breeze.

Enough of my ramble.
Brandon Osborne
Brandon Osborne Reptiles (http://www.brandonosbornereptiles.com)

[Brandon Osborne]

I also agree with waiting until at least 12 weeks. I've have many go that long and just snap into feeding mode overnight. Sometimes the tap, tap, tap for 30-45 minutes is what it takes. Once they grab the pink, you have to sit perfectly still.....just hope you don't get an itch on your nose. Whatever you do, DON'T MOVE until they are done.

Good luck
Brandon Osborne