Next snake?

[VI Reptiles Snr]

Hi, my son has proved to me that he could keep a ball python and if anything went wrong help it back to being healthy. He has decided he wanted a borneo short tailed python and hes willing to do anything to keep it healthy and if not healthy get it back to its healthy self. This is a poll and you can either pick Borneo Short Tailed Python, Burmese or a Brazilian Rainbow Boa. Neither is not an option, sorry. depending on the verdict he will research one of these snakes and buy one. We do not want to build a terrarium longer then 5 ft, nothing more then 3 ft tall and nothing wider than 4 ft but this all depends if the situation changes.


Thanks
Shari

[CamHanna]

The Burmese python option is nothing but shear idiocy (so I HAD to vote for it). These snakes can grow to 20+ feet and cost a tonne to feed; more than those vet trips that seemed to be such a concern. They are big enough to be dangerous in the care of an inexperienced keeper and require a big enclosure.

Rainbow boas and Short-tailed pythons both have more complicated humidity requirements then ball pythons, which obviously proved too difficult for your son.

If you are confident that he is ready for another snake then I would suggest a corn snake, a king snake, a spotted python, a CAPTIVE BRED ball python or some other low maintenance beginner snake.

Good Luck to the pair of you.

Cam

[Tim_Cranwill]

Why do you care what we think? Research them and get whatever YOU want. I would vote "niether" but as you stated, that's not an option. Get him a cornsnake.



BTW, my next poll will be titled "Which shirt should I buy for my wife, the red one or the pink one?". That way, I don't have to make a decision for myself... or even let HER decide which she prefers. ;)

[Linds]

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59689

That being said, I would have to agree with the others. If you have any concern for the welfare of the lives in question, both the animal and your son, you will reconsider the 'neither is not an option' standpoint. If another snake is in sight, none of the snakes included in that poll should even be considered. Corns are very hardy, and can thrive in a broad range of conditions.

BRB are very unforgiving of husbandry errors, and the reasons for not getting one have already been discussed in the above thread.

Short-tailed Pythons are definitely not for a novice keeper. Their sheer strength and speed can be a challenge (all the research in the world cannot prepare you for it), and dangerous in incapable hands, as well as they require a more specialized environment. Even some long-time experienced herpers prefer to pass on this species.

Burms also require careful handling, and can prove dangerous in the wrong hands. These snakes are on of the most commonly 'dumped' or abandoned snakes in the hobby. They require a lot of space and larger meals can become expensive.

Both Burmese and Borneos seem to be hit harder than most snakes if illness does hit. Even with optimal care, they can sometimes have trouble recovering and even become chronic.

[HeatherRose]

You son already has a 30 foot Afrock, I'm sure he can take care of all three of those.

Otherwise, I agree wholeheartedly with everything Linds has said.

That being said, I would have to agree with the others. If you have any concern for the welfare of the lives in question, both the animal and your son, you will reconsider the 'neither is not an option' standpoint. If another snake is in sight, none of the snakes included in that poll should even be considered. Corns are very hardy, and can thrive in a broad range of conditions.


In the best interest of the critters.

[JAdkins2451]

I think everyone here is just looking out for the best intrest of the animals in question.. Iam sure if you did a search on these forum you could find a couple good reasons why you should not get any of the following snakes. And also I dont see any reason why you should "Rush" to get another snake. Your soon is only young and could possibily still have many years to get any of them. What he is doing is relaying on his impulse, he sees somthing he likes and thats what he want s now. So I think you should just have a chat with him and maybe hold off for a year or so..

Just my opinon

Jamie

[HumphreyBoagart]

This is probably one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever read. Not trying to be rude, but if he can't take care of a ball python what makes you think he can take care of any of the above? And you say that you'll take care of it if he can't, So you might as well change the poll to "what kind of snake should I get?"
Because I'm willing to bet he won't be able to take care of it either, and you'll have a new snake. I'm not trying to sound like an @$$#()!e, but that is the worst idea I've heard in a long time.

Crannie- LOL!!! Go with the pink one, it's a very calming colour!

[thunder]

when the snake that you have now is set up properly, and has recovered completely, and your son has started to show some responsibility, and both you and your son have shown the slightest inkling of willingness to accept advice from those more experienced than you, and the two of you become willing to do all of the time consuming research and spend all the money required to care for an animal appropriatly, then start thinking about getting another snake. what you dont seem to realize is this: when you buy an animal, you are making a commitment to that animal. you are committing yourself to give that animal all of the care, attention, and reasources it needs to lead a healthy life. the fact that you would even consider getting a giant python as your sons next snake, even though you dont want a vivarium more than 5 feet in length, suggests to me that you have done absolutely zero research, and expect the good people of this forum to do it for you. your unwillingness to even consider another option suggests to me that it doesnt matter what we suggest, you will do what you want anyway. im not going to address the specific reasons why none of the species above are unsuitable, because im sure that others will and i dont think that it is ethical to spend money on a new animal until you are taking care of the one you already have. it is not ethical to purchase an animal before you have done research and then "get it back to being healthy," even if you are successful in these efforts. why dont you wait a few monthes to make sure your snake is ok, and then, if your son is still interested, do some reading on the requirements of these animals.

[bighillreptiles]

I woud go with what he has at hart and only after ton's of research ,some one wonce said if you love what you do and have then one is more apt to look after it ,I would have to say if he has his hart set on a larger snake i would get a bci

[VI Reptiles Snr]

I told him he should get a corn snake,kingsnake or a milksnake but he sais he doesnt like how they look. He likes the python look I guess. I'l tell him to cross out the idea of the a burmese. Just so you guys know, we fixed the scale rot so that is over and we got the snake set up and is doing great. My son has been caring for his animals not me. He has showed he could fix something if something went wrong and he would spend as much money it would take to get the reptile back on track. If any of you are into large boids what did you first buy as an animal to get used to.

Thanks
Shari

[HeatherRose]

If your son is looking to get into slightly larger boids, I would go with some kind of boa constrictor. Several species of boa do not exceed 6 or 7 feet, such as hog island boas and dumeril boas. These 'dwarf' species of boa constrictor have many different colours and patterns to choose from. If he wants something a little larger, a Colombian boa constrictor might be an option. Either way, a male of these species will generally come out at the lower end of the size scale.

Whatever your son or yourself choose to go with, making sure it is captive bred is imperitive. While captive bred snakes have less problems, they can still become sick or injured and this must be taken into consideration.

Research is a must, and starting out in the FIRST place with a proper cage/enclosure for these creatures will benefit them more than anything else I can think of.

Regardless of what your son chooses, he is young (this isn't a bad thing, I'm a youngin' myself) and I would seriously recommend you keep an eye on the situation, as it is under your roof. I do not know your son, but I feel I know enough from his recent attitude on our forums.

[VI Reptiles Snr]

Ok, he does not see the difference if he gets a BCI that gets 6-7 ft or a borneo short tailed python that gets 4.5 ft - 6ft except that the borneo is more bulky and weights more.


Thanks
Shari

[Matt_K]

BCI's tend to be more calm and docile.. Borneo's aren't known for their 'friendliness'.. Also, BCI's tend to be a bit more forgiving when it comes to husbandry issues, on the other hand, Borneo's are NOT..

My opinion (and yes, you asked for it) is that your son isn't ready for any of the three species listed above (as everyone has said). Your son needs to read up as much as he can on ALL of the species that he's interested and choose what one he thinks best suits HIM.. Not what we think would best suit him.. I think the decsion, if based on our opinions would end up in him not owning anything..

You said that he's ready and capable of caring for these anaimals.. IM glad he's proved that to YOU, cause he sure as $h!t hasn't to us.. He's created countless threads asking what he should do about his ball python.. Countless more threads saying that he doesn't want it anymore because it's costing him too much to feed.. And then, on the other side of his world, he's telling everyone he owns a 30' rock python.. You yourself have talked to me in private and told me that this isn't true.. Instead, you said that it's 23' and he was just trying to get a 'rise' out of the members.. Something's not right here and I think you BOTH need to get your stories/issues worked out..

-Matt

[snakehunter]

I was thinking the same thing Matt; JUST because you can doesnot mean you should expand your collection, from my point of veiw I would wait till you two are a bit more experienced be fore you throw another snake in the mix. OR if you are set on another snake, why not get a mate for your ball, husbandry would be the same , and would be 'less' intensive than setting up a second DIFFERENT environment for a new animal.

[VI Reptiles Snr]

I will let it to him to chose what he likes and then I will make sure he has researched it enough to own one like you said Matt. Are you saying that theres no such thing as an aggressive BCI or a docile Borneo Shor Tailed Boa? He sees short tails with alot of potential in the future as they are just developing with a couple morphs where ball pythons are developing with probably up to 30 morphs.


Thanks
Shari

[Matt_K]

No one is saying that at all.. Im not sure what would make you/him interperate it that way..

[Andy_G]

My opinion is basically this...don't let your son own another animal until that ball python has no serious health problems for a year. It's fine and dandy that he's now willing to spend the money on it and take care of it properly, but up until now it's been sick and he obviously hasn't been doing everything right with it, therefore it makes NO sense whatsoever to move on to harder animals, all he has been doing is trying to get it healthy, he hasn't kept it healthy for any period of time thus far. Ensure that he can take care of a ball properly before he moves onto harder species such as those you mentioned above. On this forum he has proven to be a blatant liar and an extremely irresponsible individual with higher priorities then his animals, such as paintball for instance, and believe me when I say none of us would be in agreeance with him owning anything else at the moment. I strongly urge you to hold off letting your son get more animals for the time being.

[Linds]

Of course there are docile Short-tailed Pythons and agro Bci... in fact I've worked with many snappy Boa constrictors (most of mine don't hesitate to try and chomp down on me if given the chance :p). I have both docile and agro Borneos and let me tell you there is a HUGE difference between them and Bci in terms of handling, whether or not they are docile. Due to their incredible stocky nature, you cannot restrain or handle them the same way without risking injury to the snake. I'm a thousand times more comfortable handling a 12' burm that is trying to bite me than I am a 5' Borneo that is freaking out. Even docile snakes have their bad days as well, and sometimes you may also have to pay special attention to something that the snake may not be comfortable with as well. Borneos behave much like a small child that just starts throwing dead weight in a temper tantrum. Boas tend to hold on to you while Borneos will try to throw themselves right out of their arms. Due to their massive girth to length ratio, they are super strong. My female Borneo literally does backflips in her cage when she is freaking out, Boa are more inclined to simply strike. As I already mentioned, there are many old-time herpers that insist on passing on this type of snake due to their capabilities. Here's a video of how they are capable of reacting.
Originally posted by Jezabel
...but not well tempered!!! She just hate been touched or, even worse, handle!!! Never saw an angry blood or stp before and, even if I'm used with my wlp and atb, she's the most impresive. A good thing she's under 3 ft, I wouln't imagine a 5-6ft one with that attitude. This video is only bout 2 weeks after I got her so I'm sure she will calm down a bit. I never saw a snake jumping before :eek:

http://www.hissnherps.ca/alison_temper.html
http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27846

I have years of experience with all of the animals in question, so I'm not just pulling these statements out my rear or out of a book. When (and if) he is ever ready for another snake, a Boa constrictor would make a better transition to larger boids, or perhaps a Carpet Python. Neither a BRB, Borneo, or Burmese would be a suitable choice for your son. I also agree that he should hold off for a suitable length of time and concentrate on [successfully] maintaining what he already has. He has not demonstrated to us any reasons why he should get another snake, or even have what he already has. Also, don't forget these animals can live well in excess of 20 years (actually BP are even known to be breeding in to their 40's). Do you want to be stuck with these animals when your son decides he would rather play paintball? We are all very concerned for the welfare of the animals, so please do not dismiss our recommendations. Straight from your son's mouth less than one month ago...

Originally posted by VI Reptiles
I will explain why. I have already spend $200 on this snake and im really not up to spending anymore on it as I have a limit I feel I want to spend it on other things...

...Yes, im a bit greedy, but im a kid and what can you expect?

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

Originally posted by VI Reptiles Snr
Borneo Shor Tailed Boa?

LMAO! Didnt know they were boas....maybe thats cause they are called Pythons!

IMO, you should let your son get deeper into his painballing as he will not be forcing other important beings(animals) to live and suffer under his.....uhh....not exactly care, more like.....torture.

Also, do you or your son have the $$$ to spend if(more a question of when than if, as has already been demonstrated) one of those snakes were to get sick? Do you care if your son is taking the life of one of these animals? He almost had already. Hes oviously not ready for another animal. I know im repeating, but how about making sure he can keep what he currently has healthy before getting anything else.

Also, you seem to be skipping some of the questions asked or the things written/topics brought up. Maybe reading the whole thread and actually taking in the information, as you are doing what your son was doing. IMO, he shouldnt own any animals, and the responsibility you have demonstrated is not very good.

C.

[lostwithin]

Just out of curiosity how long has your son had the ball python, how old is it, and how old is your son.

Devon

[zero&stich]

n/p

[wetlander]

A ball python is a relatively easy snake to take care of. I have been involved with herps for 22 years. I didn't keep any myself for several years, but when I did finally decide that I was ready to invest I started with a Royal (ball) python. After keeping that snake 100% healthy for 2 years, I got a second snake a Common Boa, again a relatively easy snake to care of. I got my third snake a year after that.

If your royal has had health problems, I suggest that you wait a year after the snake is healthy, and if no other problems arise then start to consider a second snake.

With all my experience, I have still been tagged by the boa (very painful by the way) and it is a calm snake. I'm not sure how old your son is but an adult boa is a handful. As an adult, I find she can be difficult to hold and control.

Many of the people on this site have much more experience than I do in keeping snakes, so listen to their opinions. Take your time, research, set up the proper enclosure making sure the temps, humidity and habitat needs are met and stable before getting the snake. Also consider the cost of feeding before selecting a snake.

It sounds like your son wants a larger snake but please consider the responsibility that comes with one of these. Many people like the idea of having a large snake but soon realize that handling these can be difficult, so they handle them less then they get more aggressive. This continues until the owner becomes bored or finds that keeping large snakes is not what they expected. Then they dump them, or let the snake suffer due to inproper care.

A large python is way beyond a young beginners abilities and if everyone else on this site says that the other choices you have posted require very specialized conditions I suggest you look around for other options.

[Skinnychondro]

From all the posts I have read from this kid, he has demonstrated he shouldn't even have any animals. He seems indecisive when it comes to what he wants. Maybe he's not yet mature enough to really know the consequences of his actions.
If he had been genuine from the beginning and really wanted to learn, all this could have been avoided. The thought of him wanting a large boid and you as the parent agreeing after what has been said in these forums;..it makes me cringe. Sometimes I wonder if it really is the parents posting or just the kid.
Listen, I'm all for kids keeping reptiles, but sometimes the parent has to draw the line. This is what's going to happen, he'll get his short tail or burm. Then the poor little bp will get neglected and he'll get rid of him. Then he'll get sick of his large boid or python, and he will post that he wants whatever the next flavour of the month is. I think the kid is becoming obsessed with the rush you get from purchasing that next reptile. Might just be me, but that's what it looks like.
If you want to gain back some respect you should stick with your bp and the others herps you already have.

Cheers
Jamie