Hmmmm.....well you don't see this everyday:S

[Nicky]

Today was an odd day, after leaving a small live mouse ( only option he stopped eating dead ahwile ago) in nickys cage before I went off to exams ( Only gone for an hour so I figured it would be fine), well when I came home I discovered that nicky well err made a new friend.....

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/509/169nickys_new_friend_2.jpg

anyways so I suppose I'll keep the mouse for a bit in a critter keeper and see if this means he'll take dead . Just thought I'd share my odd moment of the day with you guys lol.
Cheers
Kayla

[Simon]

You have properly heard this over and over,
but just a reminder.

Feeding live and leaving the prey unsupervised CAN LEAD to injury to the snake or even worse, death to the snake.

Seen it happen before.

Best of luck and hope that it will take f/t again.

[Nicky]

ya I know, I'll have to see if I can get him to eat dead next week.
Thanks Simon:)
Kayla

[ChokeOnSmoke]

What simon said but it is a pretty funny pic.
Your snake looks like it has pretty good weight, missing a few meals(trying to get it back on f/t) wouldn't hurt it at all.

[beanersmysav]

aww thats cute, even though you're lucky the mouse like wise be friends Nicky

[Canada_Club]

If its a "he", its probably not eating because its winter. I've never heard of a corn snake that would refuse dead food under normal circumstances.

[Tim and Julie B]

That pic is hilarious!

[CORN_SNAKE91]

thats so cool!

[Nicky]

Originally posted by Canada_Club
If its a "he", its probably not eating because its winter. I've never heard of a corn snake that would refuse dead food under normal circumstances.

Actually he eats fine as long as it's live. ( This mouse was the second one I tried to feed him as one mouse dosen't leave much of a bump) He's always been a pig, for the first year and a bit of his life he ate dead no problem then he stopped for a good 4 or 5 months and out of desperation I turned to live. I will try what choke on smoke suggested and wait a few weeks and then try dead.

Cheers
Kayla:)

[Asian Jon]

hehehehehe...

Hope he eats for ya. Good luck:D

[twiggy_floyd14]

aww nicky is soo cute what a nerd lol that is quite funny......

[Removed_2815]

Originally posted by Simon
Feeding live and leaving the prey unsupervised CAN LEAD to injury to the snake or even worse, death to the snake.
I'll elaborate, as I think this is a dangerous photo.

Although it is a neat pic, I worry you might be sending the wrong message to people reading your post. All it takes is one bite to wound, blind, or kill a snake, and I'd imagine a mouse could do a lot worse in an hour of unsupervised snuggling time with your snake (if they can gnaw through drywall in 20 minutes, I'm sure a snake, who is obviously not in feeding mode, wouldn't be much of a problem). I understand that some snakes will only take live, but there's a certain responsibility involved to ensure that the snake is not harmed during feeding.
I wonder if the owner of this guy left for an hour figuring it would be fine, who knows...

[MouseKilla]

Nice pic.

[Nicky]

Originally posted by RMBolton
I'll elaborate, as I think this is a dangerous photo.

Although it is a neat pic, I worry you might be sending the wrong message to people reading your post. All it takes is one bite to wound, blind, or kill a snake, and I'd imagine a mouse could do a lot worse in an hour of unsupervised snuggling time with your snake (if they can gnaw through drywall in 20 minutes, I'm sure a snake, who is obviously not in feeding mode, wouldn't be much of a problem). I understand that some snakes will only take live, but there's a certain responsibility involved to ensure that the snake is not harmed during feeding.
I wonder if the owner of this guy left for an hour figuring it would be fine, who knows...

Yes, it was irresponsible and thus I will never do it again. I was not trying to send a message to people saying it is ok as it was stupid on my part and could of turned out much worse, I just thought it was a pretty odd sight. I will take it down though, if you guys feel I am sending the wrong message to and might be interperted the wrong way.

I'll post some pics if he takes dead next week
Cheers
Kayla

[Removed_2815]

No harm done Kayla. The snake is fine; however, it could have turned out worse. I'm not here to judge or condemn anyone, it's just safer for the snake if you're there to watch it eat the mouse and intervene if something happens - but I know you already know this and circumstance just didn't allow you to supervise (I recommend just skipping the meal until you have some time to supervise).

I don't think you should take the pic down, I just wanted to add my piece and show the ball python photo to illustrate that there are downsides to leaving a live mouse unsupervised with a snake.
I just think new people might read it and think "this girl on ssnakess left a mouse with her snake for an hour unsupervised and everything turned out okay, plus she got a cool pic, I think I'll do the same."
That's all; I just wanted to elaborate on Simon's warning.

Best of luck getting him on f/t prey, it's so much easier and stress-free.
Kind regards,
Ryan

[Lioness]

cute pic nicky!
it looks like ur snake is actually trying to gaurd the mouse..lol

and like everyone said..
if u do, do it again..make sure ur there..or just skip a few meals and offer a f/t again.
Good Luck!

[gonesnakee]

Being a male snake & the fact its winter & you also have a female snake in close proximity, it doesn't suprise me he won't eat. Every year my adult males go for anywhere from around 4-5 months without eating NO problems. I clean them out for a month & then brumate them for around 3 months & then in the spring quite a few won't eat until they have been breeding for a few weeks or even a month. This happens yearly. For an adult male snake not to go for food for a few months is nothing. Happens all the time, especially in nature. Its not in their nature to even want to eat in the winter & sometimes not in spring either as breeding takes priority over feeding with them quite often. Leaving it with live prey should be an absolute last resort after months of not eating F/T as by giving in WAY to early is just going to create a Live feeder which is something no herper really needs. Most will take dead anyway once they are hungry enough & the prey is heated & properly presented (ie: tease feeding). Mark
P.S. Yes its a cute pic though!

[Simon]

Originally posted by Nicky
Yes, it was irresponsible and thus I will never do it again. I was not trying to send a message to people saying it is ok as it was stupid on my part and could of turned out much worse, I just thought it was a pretty odd sight. I will take it down though, if you guys feel I am sending the wrong message to and might be interperted the wrong way.

I'll post some pics if he takes dead next week
Cheers
Kayla

Kayla,

Oh please don't get me and Ryan wrong.
That pic you posted was really a cute sight. You really don't see that too much (kind of like the snake hugging the mouse, everything being peaceful)

We were just telling you to be a bit more careful so that no harm would be done to your animal.

Like Ryan said,
it is just better to supervise them when you're feeding live. You just never know when things could go wrong. Thus Ryan's photo of showing you what might/could happen. We only said what might happen so that newbies wouldn't get the impression that feeding live is all good and nothing would happen if the snake is left with a live adult mouse or rat.

Also like Mark said,
this is winter plus almost breeding time, so having them not to eat is normal. Last year one of my male snow didn't eat for 9 months before he started noticing that he was actually hungry...... after the burmation period, I keep on offering food every two weeks, and he wasn't interested at all until 9 months later....when his ego for breeding was finally gone. During that time he didnt really loose too much weight (well he did, but at an acceptable amount)

There is no need to apologize for posting that photo or even taking it down. No harm done at all.

Best of luck in getting him to eat f/t again.

[dtocher]

Originally posted by RMBolton
I wonder if the owner of this guy left for an hour figuring it would be fine, who knows...

I really gotta ask about the ball python picture. Did you or someone you know take that picture? If the answer is yes, friggen crazy (and lesson learned). If no, I have a few inquiries about it's validity.

My old roommate's red-tail (when young) did the friends thing (for a little). We watched the snake befriend it's meal for well over an hour, before it decided to do anything. There was a show on Animal Planet that showed a mouse and snake that were "friends" like that. Apparently they lived at least months together (the snake would eat other rodents, just not it's cagemate).

More so, as a semi-advocate of live food, and I know the risks involved with it. Like I've said from the get go, the moment a mouse injures or kills my snake, I would sell all my herps and start collecting rodents. j/k. :)

[Removed_2815]

Originally posted by dtocher
Did you or someone you know take that picture?
I saved it on my hard-drive a couple of years ago when it was posted on the "other" site by a regular member. The photo is valid; it is the result of leaving a rodent with a snake without supervision for an extended period of time.
Rodents will eat each other, so I see no reason to believe that a hungry rodent that is forced into a situation like that would not begin to nibble away on the snake.

One might presume that it isn't possible because they think a snake would defend itself if it were sustaining trauma like that. Yet, we are all aware of the numerous reported cases where a snake remained on top of its heat source and sustained the type of fatal deep tissue burns that would only come if the snake was lying on the overheating heat source for many hours. Obviously, these primitive snakes have a primitive nervous system and don't seem to respond to painful stimuli the way you would think.

It could happen... It has happened... There's absolutely no legitimate reason to feed live, unless the animal would otherwise starve.

Cheers,
Ryan

[beanersmysav]

I'd say (even though I couldn't think of a reason that you would have to do it) if you must leave a live rodent with your snake unsupervised for even a few minutes to put some type of food in there for your mouse to gnaw on. Especially if you get it from a pet store you don't know how hungry that mouse could be, and that piece of breed or bit of mouse/rat food could save that snakes life or well being.

By the way that gnawed up snake is a bad site indeed. About as disturbing of a site as I've ever seen :-/

[Removed_2815]

Originally posted by beanersmysav
By the way that gnawed up snake is a bad site indeed. About as disturbing of a site as I've ever seen :-/
I hate that pic, it gets me a little riled up that anyone could let that happen. However, that said, it speaks volumes and says more about the negative aspect to feeding live (and not supervising) than I could ever hope to do with words.
Cheers,
Ryan

[beanersmysav]

Yeah thats very true, words only say so much but like they say a picture is worth 1000 words and that a thousand words I don't want to see... Should make anyone thing twice or three times before unsupervised live feeding.

[dtocher]

Don't get me wrong at all, when I feed my snakes I am watching for every moment and supervising. I know that rodents can mess up snakes a lot.

I'll let you know the few issues I have in believing that photo (none of which are "why wouldn't the snake attack?").

1) That is a small/young ball. Certainly not full grown. I've fed my ball (seems to be just a little bigger than the one in the picture, at 2 feet long and a little change) an adult mouse. My ball (Rompe Todo by name) struck and grabbed the mouse's hind legs and wrapped, but the mouse's upper body was free to go to town on biting my snake. It was biting franticly (before I intervened with an impulsive flick to the mouse's head that knocked it out) and of the maybe 10 bites, 1 left a mark. These were "inflict injury bites", not "hunger bites". The snake in the picture is missing a significant amount of body mass. I'd believe the photo if the owner said he put a live large rat in the terrarium and went on vacation, but not any mouse.

2) The amount of body the thing is missing... how long was it left for? Was the mouse starving to death over several days? That looks like more than one sitting (or even an hour) worth of mouse food. That is way more than any adult mouse's bodyweight.

3) The cuts themselves. Why are all the open cuts white (except for two)? My ex-girlfriend fed her 4 foot BCI a rat that bit it and drew blood in two spots. The thing is, when it happened I would have bet money that the rat was the one bleeding, not the other way around. I couldn't see a cut on the BCI because there was so much blood. My point? My experience is that snakes do a lot of bleeding when getting cut. That ball's wounds looks to have been coterized or something. Also, if there are so many of those nasty cuts, why isn't there inflamation or any sign of internal pieces (like bone, or muscle).

I'm not trying to start a fight, and I completely agree that anyone feeding live should show care and responsibility. But I don't think throwing around that picture as a sort of scare tactic makes a whole bunch of sense. At least for me, the counter points made with words were more effective.

[Removed_2815]

Honestly, I couldn't care less if you believe it to be real or fake. The fact of the matter is that it was posted by a person with nothing to gain by staging a hoax like this, all he has his word and no one has ever questioned the validity of the photo. Speculate all you want, you're free to do so.

Ryan

[Removed_2815]

Here (http://www.proexotics.com/FAQ_answers_Why_do_you_suggest_feeding_thawed.html ) is a link to the article containing the other, much worse photo of this python. If you think it's all a big conspiracy theory then take it up with Chad Brown. ProExotics sees the worth in showing the photo, and so do I.

Ryan

[dtocher]

That second picture is leaps better (well, worse).
I still question that a mouse did that, but it serves its purpose better. I will keep feeding live to my ball and king, but everyone is right. When going the route of live, supervision is of paramount importance.

~d

[dave68]

I was gonna say "can't teach an old dog new tricks!" till I checked your Bday dtocher!!LOL!!

Dave

[dtocher]

So you calling me a new dog? :P
Also keep in mind that I don't feed everything I have live. My kingsnake started on frozen (it was simply too small for live at first). I will never feed my tegu anything but pre-killed. As soon as my BRB is healthy and eating regularly, I will do everything I can to get him on pre-killed (and eventually frozen).
~d

[Manitoban Herps]

My question is why do most of your snakes only eat prekilled not frozen? Your probaly not perparing the food right. Try to unthaw it in hot water then heat the rodent up so it's warm, then offer it to the snake.

[SerpentLust]

In regards to the original post, my Spotted Python did the same thing. I had a live baby gerbil that was meant for my non-feeding ATB and he didn't eat it. So I thought she would. All she did was nuzzle the little thing, look at me like I was some sort of monster and then just kind of coiled around the bowl the little gerbil was in and stayed there watching it.

My kingsnake on the other hand, wasn't so kind. lol

[dtocher]

They eat prekilled opposed to frozen because that is what I have readily available. A friend of mine breeds mice.