Do you house multiple snakes together?

[BoidKeeper]

Do you house multiple snakes together?
Yes or no. There have been enough debates about it I just want to see what the norm is among our members.

[Bartman]

I cant vote no, just because I house my 2 corn snakes together. Ive had them together since they were tiny babies. Im going to be spliting them up very soon and then ill have everyone seperated.

[marisa]

Nope. Never have, never will.

Marisa

[Siretsap]

Kinda cloudy question, cause if you house 2 snakes together for breeding, then you also have to answer yes to this question...

Also, if you keep babies together you again have to vote yes. (Personally, I do not know many people who seperate each babies as soon as they are born)

I keep some female cornsnakes together all year around, and 2 males together all the time also (well till next breeding season anyways)

[BoidKeeper]

Housing for breeding is called breeding trials, not housing. How can you breed with out putting them in the same cage. I thought that was obiviouse. Not seperating babies with in minutes of being born doesn't count either. My question refers to two or more snakes living in the same cage year round.
Trevor

[Siretsap]

Well I know some breeders who's breeding trials can strech over a few months period of time when the snakes are housed together, so I consider it housing them together more than a breeding trial....

As for the babies, I only know of 3 breeders who seperate each of them into seperate enclosures, most will house them by groups of 3 or more...

And I do not see any inconvenience into housing more than one snake together if your snakes are clean and you know how to take proper care of them.

it is OBIVIOUSE that you need to put the snakes together, I think I understand the breeding period... As I said, when your snakes spend more than a few weeks housed together for breeding, then you are housing them together more than doing a breeding trial..

[bighillreptiles]

I keep all of my snakes seperate un less im breeding them ,as for the babys i keep them all together untill thay are done there first shed then they all go in there own rubber made so i can tell who is who ,male ,female,shedding recorad ,feedding ea ;Paul Bighill Reptiles

[BoidKeeper]

Why wait till after they shed? How do you know who shed first and when? I sperate mine ASAP and put them on damp paper towl. Helps with their first shed because it keeps them hydrated, especially if they hatched out on to vermiculite.
Cheers,
Trevor

[Linds]

My snakes are housed individually for the most part. Only times they are together is for breeding, or in cases such as after my female gave birth this year, I had to resilicone the tracks on her cage, so she went back with my male for a few days.

I agree Trevor. Putting hatchlings/neos on damp papertowels is very important. They can dehydrate so easily.

[bighillreptiles]

well Treavor some times i have so much on the go it is easer to keep them in one large robber maid untill thay have shead it has worked for me and not every one . I also breed Parrots as well as snakes; Thanks Paul Bighill Reptiles

[Manitoban Herps]

Nope I don't, except I house my kingsnakes together......:p..LOL...j/k..they are kept indivudualy.

[Jeff_Favelle]

All baby boas (except Rainbows) and all baby Balls (within the same clutch) are together until the first shed, then its separate Rubbermaids.

[lostwithin]

I keep all my snakes separate. Although I plan to pick up a few ATB’s and have been thinking about just building one display cage for a few of them. Still not sure if I’ll do it, or not.

Devon

[BoidKeeper]

Well that's what I did Devon and look what happen to me.
Cheers,
Trevor

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

Breeding trials can last a while, yes, but the question is when they are not breeding...............do you house them together? And also im sure Trevor was not factoring in emergency situations. He means General keeping.

I keep all my snakes alone.

C.

[RepTylE]

I don't have a lot of snakes so doubling up never became a consideration. I don't think that for general housing I would.

Awhile ago someone posted a pic of a boa that swallowed then regurged a similar sized BP when they had been housed together and it frankly scared the bajebus out of me. So my vote in the poll is a most emphatic NO!!!!

[BoidKeeper]

Do you have that link or the pics copied? I thought I copied them but now I can't find them.
Cheers,
Trevor

[RepTylE]

Sorry no. I didn't save the pic.

[Tim_Cranwill]

All the snakes I own are housed individually unless they are expected to breed with another snake in the very near future. Babies, neonates, juvis, adults, geriatrics.... ALL! :D

When a clutch hatches, they go directly into their own container. I can see why some would say "why house them individually before the first shed?" But why not? They're going in that container eventually. Why not right away?

[Brent Strande]

I've got em saved somewhere...

Its right here...

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48846

also here:

http://www.bobclark.com/bcforums/to...e=Picture+Forum


and here are the pics in case the links dont work:

http://www.boa-constrictors.com/Bilder/Kanibale/Vollgefressen1.jpg

http://www.boa-constrictors.com/Bilder/Kanibale/Vollgefressen2.jpg

http://www.boa-constrictors.com/Bilder/Kanibale/Vollgefressen3.jpg

http://www.boa-constrictors.com/Bilder/Kanibale/Ausgewuergt1.jpg

http://www.boa-constrictors.com/Bilder/Kanibale/Ausgewuergt2.jpg

[BoidKeeper]

Ah there they are.
Thanks,
Trevor

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

TIM:

I agree with you unless breeding there is no reason to house snakes together. There is more than enough negative reasons to support this. But there will always be some people thinking otherwise and that is fine to, only later a good percentage of them are the ones crying about a complication from housing together that are not intended for breeding.

:)

Tony Pharosx

[proud2bcanadian]

I don't own any snakes, but when I do, I'm for sure not going to be putting them together!

I remember seeing something on Daily Planet once where they put a King and a Corn together. I think it was the King that ate the Corn!!

EDIT : The only way I'd keep them together was if they were breeding...

[marisa]

That ball and boa photo is a PERFECT illustration of the fact that even though something might not happen often, it CAN and DOES eventually happen to some people.

Why risk it. There are NO benefits to housing snakes together for the snakes, so I can't see any arguement making it seem safe to do so, or beneficial to anyone but the keeper.

Marisa

[Rikki]

Of course not.

[Jeff_Favelle]

But why not? They're going in that container eventually. Why not right away?


Works awesome for Ball Pythons. Just take them out as they shed and set them up individually. Ralph does it that way too. Don, myself, and a few others. I love it that way as its only one cage to keep track of the humidity. The first shed is soooooo important, so if you have 8 or 10 cages instead 60 or 70, you can get a better handle on the first shed. After that, its individual unitl breeding time, 1-4 years later!!!!! :)

[Tim and Julie B]

Most of the time I keep my snakes separate but I have keeped rat snakes together all year round. Mind you this was in a very large cage. Never had a problem. I know a few people that always keep there snakes together and have for years with no problems. Would I keep keep boas and pythons together, no. Corns and N.Amer. Rats, I have and probably would again.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Would I keep keep boas and pythons together, no. Corns and N.Amer. Rats, I have and probably would again.


Exact opposite for me. I find colubrids to be 1000x more cannibalistic than boids.

[RepTylE]

Those pics make me sob like a child. A perfectly good BP cold and stiff, glad that I am never going to make that mistake. Separate housing all around in my collection.

[Manitoban Herps]

Vern Ruml is an expert and he keeps his burms together and his BCI's

[Jeff_Favelle]

Who?

[Tim_Cranwill]

I wouldn't call him and expert as much as an old-school keeper/breeder that is not looking to progress much in the hobby in the way of knowledge or care techniques. He's a great guy and he has and produces nice animals but I would not call him an expert based on MY criteria.

Just my opinion...

[BoidKeeper]

I'm with Jeff, who?
Doing something for a long time doesn't make it right.
Cheers,
Trevor

[Gary D.]

OK I'm going to play devil's advocate here. I have kept B.c.i.'s together for years and still do (some other species as well). Although I admit I will never mix species. Communal enclosures, I don't feel are a bad or good thing. But it has to be done right. Caging has to be ample enough that animals are not crowded is the one important rule. And truthfully you create atleast double the work of separate enclosures. Randomly mixing animals is also a recipe for failure, as some species of reptile (more often lizards) are territorial, and constant stresses of social heirarchy will end in fatalities and health concerns. Feeding is the first and most obvious concern. And cleaning presents some important considerations (especially if a species is known to be defensively tempermental, ATBs for example).

My answers to anyone who asks me this question:
Can you do it: Depends, sometimes yes, sometimes no.
Should you do it: Depends, what are your reasons and are you willing to put the time and energy into it.

Kind of like a natural terrarium vs. newsprint.

Gary D.

Edit for spelling.

[Scales Zoo]

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
Who?

Jeeze, sorry you and Trevor don't know the name, he must be a nobody.

Actually, Vern has had problems with communally housing his male burms - and is probably rethinking the practise.

A lot of the "old school" herpers, did, and still do keep burms, balls and common boas together (not mixing species, balls with balls, etc...) A lot of them breed them successfully and have never had a problem.

We used to keep balls together, as well as common boas. Usually 2, and never more than 3. In that time we did not have any problems, but I agree that the best pracitise is to keep each snake in seperate cages.

Seems to be a real point of contention in todays age of "I do everything right, boo to all those who don't meet my standards".

The fact is, lots of old schoolers did and still do, I know of 6 people, but won't name them here.... And so have I.

No, it isn't as good as keeping them seperately in my opinion - but also in my opinion is it in no way "evil" like some would make you feel.

The other big thing, is to not let lazyness or lack of funds be the reason that you don't do things as best as you can, and then try to defend your actions because a lot of "old school" people did it that way. Old school people also used to keep snakes in pillowcases, except for feeding day. 20 years ago, when a lot of these old schoolers were around, breeding B.P's was very uncommon, and prestigious. Today any idiot can buy a book or a video, follow it, and have huge success.

Oh, and we still keep 2 male balls in the same enclosure. All boas, and the other ball have their own seperate enclosures.

When we seperate them to individual enclosures, they stop eating, we put them back together for a week, and both start eating great. I don't know why it is, but I do know those 2 individual snakes eat better when they are kept together.

Ryan

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

Maybe because they feel more competition(....causing stress) that is making them think,"I gotta take this meal.....or that other !&$)#&* im with will take it!"

Just a thought.

C.

[Jeff Hathaway]

I agree with Gary. There are situations where it can be fine to keep multiple specimens of the same species in the same enclosure. No, I'm not arguing that this benefits the animals, but I don't think that it necessarily harms them either. Sure, it causes some increased risk of various things going wrong, but that risk can be minimized greatly if one is careful.

And although I like to see high standards of animal care maintained, I don't think that everything has to be 'the very best for the animals'. There is always something more to do, buy, etc. to create the 'best' situation. However, practicality also has to play a role, and if what you are doing keeps the animals healthy, then I think it would generally be okay.

We keep a variety of colubrids together (multiple colonies of corns, black rats, grey rats, everglades rats, bulls, foxes, garters, ribbons, waters) and a couple of boids (balls, common boas). Turtles as well, though generally not snappers. Almost forgot the frogs, too- greens, leopards, gray trees, woods, bulls. Never lost anything to cannibalism in 10 years. Could it happen? It's possible, but I've got bigger things to worry about.

I've even *gasp* mixed species in a few cases- day geckos with fire bellied toads and a pacific treefrog being the current example, in a planted tank with a waterfall in my living room. Note that I didn't set out to do this, but received some of these animals and needed to put them somewhere. The geckos have been around for close to 10 years, and the treefrog is the newest inhabitant as of 4 years ago. The toads and geckos have both bred. I dare anyone to say that these animals are unhealthy or improperly cared for. However, this is not a typical enclosure for most herpers, and I'm not recommending that people set out to do this.

But I do, and it can be done. Just understand that there are some risks not encountered with keeping things singly.

Cheers,

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[Darren179]

I keep everything seperate. The only time I put non breeding snakes together was in the blackout because I only had so many of the 24 hour heat pads. I did not mix species but I did have a couple of common boas in one Enclosure and a few balls in another. Having worked in a pet store I have also heard a few horror stories not involving snakes but with beardies. Somebody had put an adult bearded dragon in with his colony of leopard geckos. Sure enough he lost most of his geckos.

[Jeff_Favelle]

WHoever said he was a "nobody"?? Certainly not I. If someone is going to NAME DROP someone who does something, then its not out of the realm of possibility for another person to ask who that is.

[Scales Zoo]

Correct, and he is many provinces from you and Trevor, so it is understandable that neither of you recognized the name.

His claim to fame is to have the healthiest and happiest reptiles around. He was one of our mentors, Sheila knew him before I did, and before we met - and it is who we got Elvira from.

The guy has a real knack for reptiles, and treats his better than 90% of the people out there. The burms that are housed together used to get his bedroom - whcih was converted into a snake cage, complete with hot spots, thermal gradient, humidity, caves, multiple large water bowls. Truely a very cool experience to walk into that room of huge burms, and to see him sleeping in the t.v room.

Hope this helps those who've never heard of the guy.

Ryan

[Darren179]

Sounds cool. However I am tight for space as it is a Room/Cage is out of my realm of possibility :(

[Tamizan]

Nope, never

[Orianna]

6 of my KSBs, 3 pairs, are housed with their mates in a cage year round. mama Dune and Zak have lived together 3 1/2 years. never separated them. The babies were pulled the very next morning from when they were born and put in a cage together till after their first shed and we were going to feed for the first time. All my snakes are feed in separate feeding containers. the pairs are fed at the same time they remain in the containers after they are done till they burrow and remain still for a bit. then they are placed back into their cages, one after the other at opposite ends. No food is ever in their cages. all pairs live in 40breeder equivalences.

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

EVERYONE:

To people who do not know Vern or are wondering who he is I saw this recent post on it and will copy/paste the link and qoute.

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/WinnipegSun/News/2005/01/24/908303-sun.html

Mon, January 24, 2005


Snake in the snow

Boa was alive on roof, says man who found it

By DAVID SCHMEICHEL, STAFF REPORTER




Everyone's heard about snakes in the grass, but how about one in the snow? Or on the roof?

Fort Rouge resident Jason Works encountered just that Friday afternoon, while clearing snow off the roof of his Lorette Avenue home.

There, after turning over a deep drift, Works found himself face-to-scaly-face with a six-foot red-tailed boa constrictor.

COILED UP

"I just about s--- my pants," Works said of his reaction to the roof-bound reptile. "I'm a good Canadian, and we just don't have this kind of (stuff) here. I mean, I've seen garter snakes before, but they were three inches long, not six feet."

Works' first instinct was to knock the snake off his roof into a snow bank below, then call his wife to check out the find.

The snake was coiled up when he first uncovered it, but began uncoiling itself after being knocked down, leading Works to believe it was still alive.

He and his wife quickly called the Winnipeg Humane Society, which sent someone to retrieve the animal. Works said he was later informed the snake had died from exposure, although it's still unclear whether that happened before or after the animal was taken from his yard.

Humane society officials didn't return calls for comment yesterday, and Works himself said he's at a loss to figure out how the snake reached his roof.

"The only thing I can think of is we used to have a lot of squirrels up there," he said. "I don't know if it went up there after a meal or what."

Local snake expert Vern Ruml said he recognized the snake as a boa constrictor right away, but was also unable to explain how it made it on to Works' roof.

"All I can do with the information I have is speculate," said Ruml, of Ruml's Reptiles. "Maybe it got to the roof itself, maybe someone tossed it up there dead or alive."

Whatever the case, Ruml said yesterday he'd be very surprised to learn the snake was still alive when Works found it, despite the "uncoiling" witnessed when it was knocked from the roof to the ground.

"Mobility for a boa constrictor in freezing winter weather is next to nil, if at all," he said. "Death would occur in a matter of minutes and exposure of a dead animal to warm or hot weather would eventually lead to a decay process."

Works' discovery marks the second time in recent months that an exotic snake has made an unexpected -- and unexplained -- appearance in Manitoba.

Late last October, residents of Thompson discovered a 15-foot python at the side of a highway in the southern-most end of town.

Thompson's animal control officers originally believed the snake was a boa constrictor, a species typically found in Central and South America. It's their theory the animal was probably an exotic pet owned by someone who didn't properly dispose of it once it had died.


On a personal note:

I met Vern on 2 occasions where he was doing an educational show. I got a chance to chat with him on both occasions for a few minutes while he took a break after the presentation. After seeing his Burmese Pythons and some Common Boas and a recent litter as well. I was hooked. It was his show and the information that gave me my first insight into boids, it was his Albino Burmese that I got to touch as the first large boid ever. At the time I was living in the city and as a respected breeder he denied me a sale of some of the baby boas. It was this that made me respect him, being I had no clue on the species and no means to care for them at the time and the laws. I have not heard from Vern in years now and hope his collection and himself are doing great :D

My addiction for constrictors started with Vern, then a friend Myron, 3 years researching the species I loved and wanted, then 3 shows in Alberta......now the addiction is a passion.

Just my 2 cents.

Tony

[JimmyDavid]

I've heard people say dogs eat more when housed with other dogs. maybe it could happen with some snakes, i don't know.

But there are more reasons for not housing snakes together. If one snake gets sick, they all could get sick. That's one major reason.

[loveispretend]

I've never housed snakes together. I am far too paranoid for that.

[rwg]

Yes. My 3 garters share an enclosure.

[ATBlover]

hmm after seeing this im having second thoughts about keeping my bals together....my female is about2 and my male is about 2 and a half and they love each other....so i dont know why i would have to split them apart.....they have never tried to fight and i feed them carefully out of their tanks..seperate.......Anybody have any advice for me?..seperate or keep em together..does this affect their breeding when it comes to that time?..Thanks..Connor

[HeatherRose]

I'd seperate them Connor...you say they 'love each other'...how can you tell? They can't possibly tell you. If you see them snuggling, it's for other reasons...(I think one is that they are competing for a spot on the hot spot? I'm not positive as I've not had to deal with it)

A couple reasons are:

If one gets sick, they both get sick (2 vet bills)...

You can't tell who pooped or regurged...

Stress...

Balls go off feed easily...and many other reasons.

If you're not breeding, just seperate them...then when you go to breed them, put them together. :)

[ATBlover]

ok thanks...Connor