whats up with BP caresheets?

[Manitoban Herps]

Why don't any of the ball python caresheets I read say anything about warming the mouse up hot before offering it to your snakes? That was my biggest problem for all of my boids at the start.

Can anyone direct me too one or more?

[marisa]

I am not sure what you mean? When they saw "unthaw" it normally means in warm water so the rodent would be quite warm.

But if you mean specifically mentioning making them nice and hot for a better feeding response, then yes more should state that on caresheets. I believe a lot of the ball python books mention it though, (could be wrong) sometimes the web can be a little "half butt" when it comes to research if you know what I mean. :D

Marisa

[tdherper]

BTW- "unthaw" would mean to freeze again!! LOL, much like dethaw. My mother taught me that!

[Manitoban Herps]

When I unthaw my food for my snakes in hot water, by time there ready the water has cooled down soo I put it up to my Iggy's 250 watt heatlamp.....it does the job! :D

[RepTylE]

Originally posted by tdherper
BTW- "unthaw" would mean to freeze again!! LOL, much like dethaw. My mother taught me that!

My older sister has always used the word unthaw lol.
Room temps are always accepted by my snakes but I like the rats to feel warm to the touch. They would take room temp ones but who doesn't like a warm meal in their tummy?:p

[BoidKeeper]

You should never thaw anything in hot water. Take your feeders out in the morning and let them thaw slowly all day. Or thaw them in cold water and then warm them in hot water. If you put a frozen feeder in hot water the outside can be cooked and the inside still cold. I always take my feeders out the morning of or even the night before. We know we feed at least once a week so how hard is it to plan ahead? I also keep a low watt heat gun in my snake room for heating them up even more for picky snakes some times.
Cheers,
Trevor
PS
Your ball should be eating rats not mice.

[smeagel]

i take my feeders out about5 or 6 hours ahead of time, put them in warm water. then when i go back they are thawed out so all i have to do is put fresh warm water in the dish so they get warm again and my balls take them all the time ( except when cooling down, if they dont take them my boas will. )

[Manitoban Herps]

Originally posted by BoidKeeper
Your ball should be eating rats not mice.

I only feed mice to my 04 female, what should I get her on instead. Everyone says stuff about how hard it is to get snakes to rats if you feed them mice for awhile, but I dont agree, every snake I have had that I have switched goes very easy. My male fist was eating mice, then he ate gerbils then rats.......I just had what I had and he ate them all no problem.

[marisa]

"Everyone says stuff about how hard it is to get snakes to rats"

Not really hard to get OTHER snake species on rats, but some Ball Pythons can be literally almost impossible. I personally will never ever offer mice to any Ball Python again.

If you haven't had problems in the past, maybe you will in the future, maybe you won't. But to make life easier if you DO, I would simply start trying to switch the snake now. :)

Marisa

[BoidKeeper]

Not really hard to get OTHER snake species on rats, but some Ball Pythons can be literally almost impossible. I personally will never ever offer mice to any Ball Python again.
I couldn't agree more.
Of the balls I sold this year all but one hard case was already eating rats when I sold them. That way the customer didn't have any of the hard work to do, I did it for them. They all needed to be started on fuzzie mice though, not one would start off on rats. The one female I kept back had maybe 5 mice before taking a fuzzy rat. She now takes 40-50g rats about every 5 days.
Cheers,
Trevor

[Tim_Cranwill]

I say the longer you wait to switch, the better the odds are that you will have a tough time. I don't have a 2004 ball python that eats mice but if I did, even a jumbo mouse would be too small for them now. They all eat weaned or small rats.

I just don't see the point of feeding them mice once they are established feeders.

[Manitoban Herps]

Well I will get some rats asap, mine is eating 2 a week....but IMO, I think some people overfeed......it won't hurt the snake if it is at an healthy weight, but if they grow too fast, it can be harmful too them.

[Tim_Cranwill]

But who says your snake's weight is healthier than mine?

[Manitoban Herps]

None, but all I am saying is if the snake is gaining weight the food item is appropriate right?

I don't want you to think that the snake wenty to a bad home, but that just my opinion.

[RepTylE]

When I first got my female, I had her on large adult mice (one every five days or so. She grew and filled out nicely on them.
I have been fortunate that she switched to rats like she never even heard of mice and there has been no looking back. The little male has been on rats since I rescued him.
I don't think that people are implying that you are a bad owner because you feed mice.....only that rats are better and more appropriate sized meals. The important thing is that your BP is eating period.

[smeagel]

Rats are efinatly an appropriate sized meal compared to mice for an adult ball. If your ball is eating mice ( wether or not it is an adult now or not ) you would have to feed it like 10 or more at a time to come close to the meal that it would have if it ate a rat. Besides feeding a single rat would is cheaper than several mice and rats have more meat on them than mice do so its healthier for the snake. Thats all people are trying to say.

[joey]

When I bought my 4 month old bp, the previous owner had been feeding her live mice. I've fed her 2x since then and both times they were f/t adult mice. I've since tried to switch her to f/t rats but she won;t have it. I've tried using the tongs and dangling them in front of her--she will strike but she won't take it. I've also tried rubbing the rat down with mouse scent and putting her in a paper bag overnight with a f/t rat. NO GO.

Should I just keep trying with the rats until she finally gets hungry enough to eat or what? I don't want to offer her anything that's still alive or stunned. Maybe she's just fasting right now? Do bp's ever starve themselves or will they eventually eat?

[Manitoban Herps]

I have heard of balls striking at there prey and missing it, I tis b/c the prey is not warm enough, or so I am told.

Warm it up so it is hot, but not so hot it will burn the snakes gums.

[JDouglas]

Its funny how people are saying not to feed mice but when someone asks how to switch a ball to rats no one replies. I would be interested in what they have to say.

VPI and many other ball breeders start their balls on live hopper mice so you are not a bad keeper nor are they bad breeders. I purchased 20 morph ball pythons this year from four different breeders and all were started on mice. Out of all of these only four would take F/T rats readily. One eats live crawler rats. That leaves 15 to switch to rats.

You can scent small rats with a mouse, mouse bedding, or even mouse blood. This has worked well for most. We have also scented them with gerbils with some success. We have also fed a hopper mice and followed it down with a small rat. Also a few weeks without feeding can make a big difference in feeding response. Now, what are some other methods others have used to switch balls to rats?

[RepTylE]

I teach my rats to sing Barry Manillo songs and the BP's strike out of sheer horror and to make them stop singing. A bit unorthodox but hey it works :D

[BoidKeeper]

How to switch from mice to rats,
Offer a rat.
Offer from hemos.
Make sure it is really warm 90+
Scent it with a mouse.
Leave a f/t over night with the snake in small dark container.
Offer a f/k rat.
Offer a f/k rat from hemos.
Feed a mouse than a rat back to back.
Offer a live rat.
Offer a live rat from the hemos.
Offer a stuned rat from the hemos.
Offer a f/k rat from the hemos.
Offer a f/k rat from the hemos and then a f/t rat from the hemos back to back.
Those are just some of the things you can try.
Cheers,
Trevor