Starting with hot snakes..

[Kyle Walkinshaw]

Hey, I was just curious if anyone could tell me how I could go about trying to get the permits for keeping venomous snakes. Other than catching wild Massassaugas (not keeping) in the summer I have no real experience with any hot snakes and would like to hear some suggestions of what would be a good thing to start with. I am 16 years old and I am currently keeping several colubrids and boids and have been for the past four years and as my collection is growing I am looking for something a little more challenging. Any help would be very much appreciated.

Thanks, Kyle-

[Nightflight99]

http://www.venomousreptiles.org/libraries/download/1373/mini-savannah000.jpg

Hi Kyle,
it is great to learn of your interest in venomous reptiles. As you know, the keeping of venomous snakes is a very unique and elite sector of herpetoculture, and demands a great amount of knowledge, experience, discipline, and - most of all - common sense to succeed in. You must also be fully aware of the fact that even though you may reduce the risk of ever being envenomated to a minimum by using adequate tools and handling methods, you will never be able to eliminate it entirely, and accept a basic risk by working with these animals.

There are many different opinions on how you should get started with venomous snakes, and mine is certainly not worth more than anyone else's. However, most experienced venomous keepers will agree that a slow, step-by-step approach is the one that will lead you to achieve your goal in a relatively safe and responsible manner.

My suggestion is to set a goal and an outline of steps that will take you there. Your first step should be to check the legal status of keeping venomous reptiles in your area. I'm not very familiar with Canadian legislature, but in the United States, you have to consider federal laws, state laws, and municipal laws. If it is legal, then you are often faced with a number of requirements that you must fulfill, usually ranging from age requirements to facility requirements. Once you have determined the scope of your plans, you can begin by volunteering at a zoological institution or experienced private keeper's facility to get some hands-on practical experience with venomous snakes. This is a crucial part of preparing yourself for keeping these animals yourself, and one that is all too often being neglected. Ideally, you should seek mentorship under the wings of an expoerienced keeper who will teach you the various handling methods, safety procedures, and everything else related to the subject. In the meantime, you may choose to keep a non-venomous species that you treat exactly as if it were venomous. This will help you practicing handling methods and procedures, and will help you to become accustomed to using the tools as natural extensions of your body whenever you do anything around the animals.

Once you have acquired a substantial amount of knowledge and experience, you may plan to obtain your first venomous snake. Your mentor will probably be able to determine whether you are ready or not, as you may not always be able to do so yourself. The topic of the first venomous species is just as debated as the approach that leads there. Personally, I believe that you should go with something that is of average size, more or less easy to keep, and non-lethal. This will ensure that any mistake you may make will most likely not be your last one. My recommendation is to start with a Northamerican copperhead (Agkistrodon contortrix) or a species of pigmy rattlesnake/massassauga (Genus Sistrurus). These species are small to midsized, beautiful, hardy, and are unlikely to kill you, although Sistrurus c. catenatus has been documented to cause fatalities. Another possibility would be to start with a mild rear-fanged colubrid, such as a false water cobra (Hydrodynastes gigas) or mangrove snake (Boiga dendrophila). While bites from these species rarely seem to involve more than localized symptomatic, there have been documented cases of severe envenomations with both of these species, and the animals should therefore be treated accordingly.

Nevertheless, even a bite from Agkistrodon contortrix can be excrutiatingly painful, and lead to severe necrosis and edema, which may require amputations in some cases. It is very important that every venomous keeper prepares for the worst case scenario to the best of their abilities, which includes proper health insurance (treatment for venomous snake bites can quite easily topple $100,000 US), bite protocols, antivenin locations, and other relevant information.

This topic is quite complex and is virtually impossible to be treated appropriately within the scope of a single forum threat. Please feel free to ask all the questions you may have regarding this matter. Working with venomous reptiles is certainly not for everyone, but it is a highly fascinating and rewarding work when done safely and responsibly.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,

---Nightflight99

[BWSmith]

Venomous is something that you have to have your whole heart into. There is no place for interest, it has to be a passion. I would recommend finding a venomous keeper and training with them before even thinking of getting into it. I would also wait until you are over 18. What happens to the snake when you go to college? Can't keep a venomous in a dorm. I would frown on even keeping one in an apartment. It becomes a danger. Soon Venom 101 by Allen Hunter will be coming out (as soon as I finish editing it). It is the comprehensive guide to keeping venomous. Read it, then reread it before thinking about getting one. And be sure to read "Bitten by the Big One" at www.venomousreptiles.org. Just a few thoughts off the top of my head. Oh, and check out http://www.redtailboa.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=Forum&file=index&action=viewtopic&topic=8483&22 Good luck.

[cobraman]

Very nice work, Brian!!!
Blessings
Ray

[Kyle Walkinshaw]

@BWSmith

I have already decided I won't be actually owning any of my own hots for many years until I am done school and own my own house and all that kind of stuff. I've also been looking around for "hot snake keepers" in my area so I could learn about the proper care and safe handling and all that. Thanks for the concern, and would you happen to know anyone that keeps hots in the Mississauga - G.T.A area??

Thx again,

[BWSmith]

LOL! I have NO IDEA where that is!!! :) My first bit of advice for starting down the right path is to join the Southeastern hot Herp Society (www.venomousreptiles.org) Here you gain access to some of the greatest minds int he world and get to network with ven keepers everywhere you can imagine. :)

[Matt]

kyle.
just wanted to throw my 2 cents in real quick.

I live in mississauga, but am currently working at a reptile zoo with over 100 hot species.

I really think a couple things are important....and this is just my opinion

1. I wouldnt recommend anyone under at least 18 keeping hot....i know you said you were going to wait a while and thats great. I think you should read and reasearch alot before getting into it.

2. I dont wanna start an agrument here (please), but am a FIRM believer in anyone keeping hots, keeping their OWN supply of antiserum on hand. It is difficult to obtain permits to get this, but i believe is anyone is serious about it, they should take the time and get the antiserum.
I know nobody plans on getting bit, but the fact of the matter is, if you do, it is irresponsible to go running to the nearest person or zoo that does keep it.

anyways, thats my opinion....if you wanna talk more about it, i am in mississauga, you can email me.

later

[BWSmith]

That is one advantage of only currently keeping native US hots. CroFab pretty much handles them all (except for Coals of course). There is also the Florida AV Bank in Miami Dade. They service the entire world and that is their sole purpose.

I do agree in keeping keeping AV on hand, luckily, I dont have to. Hospitals carry it.

[Matt]

BW,
thanks for pointing that out!
I fully agree, most hospitals in the US and Canada will have Crofab on hand, so their is no need to keep it.

still an expensive mistake....
$1500 each vial for Crofab, I think thats enough insentive to avoid getting bit :)

thanks

[BWSmith]

Especially since the initial dose is 6 vials followed by another 6 admined every 2 hours for 12 hours. That is 12 vials for an average bite. I have a firend that took a hit off a copper and they gave him 20!