sweet kill pic [Archive] - sSNAKESs : Reptile Forum

BoidKeeper

11-29-04, 08:32 PM

Looks like urine on the paper towel. I think he really is bragging about his snake killing something.
Tell me please, what is so sweet about watching something die? Slowly and painfully I might add. Feeding live is a fact of life for some ball owners but they don't take pleasure in it. Most don't enjoy the experience at all because they are too worried about their snake getting bitten to take any pleasure or enjoyment out of the experience.
Trevor

RB420

11-29-04, 08:36 PM

listen if you didn't like it why did you come into this thread? just to critisize? to act like you kno more than me or something? i have tried frozen thawed, he wouldn't eat it, i tried for almost 2 months straight offering every 6 or 7 days. needless to say he want very hungry those weeks and lost a bit of weight. the minute i dropped a live one in he gobbled it up right away. i too care about my snakes safety and well being which is why choose to let him eat rather than starve. and before swithcing back i called the store which i had bought it from ( a well established reptile specific shop) and he suggested just going back to live. and another thing is frozen thawed mice are not available in my area and i don't think driving for 2 hours for a frozen mouse is worth it AND i like to support my local store my shopping in town :D

and as to enjoyin it yes i do, not specifically because of the death of the mouse, but the display of power of the snake.

Tim_Cranwill

11-29-04, 08:45 PM

Feeding live (properly) is all fine and dandy when it's necessary but calling it a "sweet kill pic" is a bit... what's the word??? barbaric? Yeah, maybe that's the word...

I feed live to several of my snakes but I don't post pics bragging about out. Maybe you're just happy that the snake ate and that's fine but it sounds more like you're happy about the "sweet kill pic" you took.... I could be misinterpreting your point here though.

HeatherRose

11-29-04, 08:56 PM

listen if you didn't like it why did you come into this thread? just to critisize? to act like you kno more than me or something

Trevor and any other member can click and comment on any thread they wish. As I know that Trevor and Tim are both very experienced and successful herpers, I'd eagerly take any advice they have to offer with much appreciation, not hostility.

Are you going to post another 'sweet kill pic' when the mouse bites your snake?

BoidKeeper

11-29-04, 08:59 PM

I feed live to one ball too. But like I said I don't look upon it as a sweet kill every time he doesn't get bit. If you had read my first post more carefully you'd see it had nothing to do with knowing more than you, nor does it have anything to do with the feeding live issue. But yes it was indeed critical of your attitude towards feeding live.
Trevor

Matt_K

11-29-04, 08:59 PM

Heather, Stop yelling at these people!!! I'm sure he's sorry if the pic offended you..

-Matt

snakehunter

11-29-04, 10:18 PM

Hmmm, I was gonna say it would be even sweeter if it where a f/t rodent, BUT you guys kinda beat me to it. ANYWAY f/t is the way to go, and switching bp's AINT easy.

It took my fem. a good three mo. to switch, even then she is a picky eater. Just switch ASAP it is cheapier, easier and ABOVE all safer.

mykee

11-29-04, 10:21 PM

Montie, you need to grow up.

HeatherRose

11-29-04, 10:40 PM

Heather, Stop yelling at these people!!! I'm sure he's sorry if the pic offended you..

Bahaha. :rolleyes:

I wasn't condemning those who feed live, I was pointing out how disturbing it was to enjoy it. :p Jerk

Manitoban Herps

11-29-04, 10:47 PM

Originally posted by mykee
Montie, you need to grow up.

I don't know about that......what are we supposed to think when our snakes eat...ewwww? He didn't mean for everyone to be offended, he just though the picture was interesting and didn't word it right.

Matt_K

11-29-04, 11:10 PM

Originally posted by Manitoban Herps
I don't know about that......what are we supposed to think when our snakes eat...ewwww? He didn't mean for everyone to be offended, he just though the picture was interesting and didn't word it right.

I think Mykee was referring to the way Montie handled himself in his reply..

-Matt

lucky8926

11-29-04, 11:33 PM

On a less hostile note my BP just ate for the first time since I have had him!! It was a F/t rat pup. Here is the only pic I got, he drug it into his hide to eat it

:(

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v508/lucky8926/chiefs1stmeal.jpg

daver676

11-30-04, 12:21 AM

Originally posted by BoidKeeper
Feeding live is a fact of life for some ball owners but they don't take pleasure in it. Most don't enjoy the experience at all because they are too worried about their snake getting bitten to take any pleasure or enjoyment out of the experience.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Also. Did you notice that since the mouth of the mouse is open, and you couldn't see the bottom lip, that it could in fact have been sinking it's teeth into your snake? Just something to think about. When I feed live, as soon as my bp grabs the rodent and starts constricting, I usually get in there with a pencil or something to control the rodent's mouth. Then it can bite the pencil if necessary. Just something to keep in mind for the safety of your pet.

And I don't like the pic. Well. I don't like seeing pictures of anything dieing.
:rolleyes:

hhw

11-30-04, 01:35 AM

The bulged eyes, the tongue sticking out, and the urine spread everywhere indicates it was quite a traumatic death for the poor mouse...

Anyway, it can't be denied that it is exciting to see a snake constrict a rodent to death, marvelling at the finely tuned evolved characteristics of our magnificent pets. However, we should never trivialize the death of the rodents, and we should ALWAYS avoid being cruel as much as possible.

Brent Strande

11-30-04, 02:08 AM

I think that this site is beginning to criticize way too much. Where in his original post did he say that he got pleasure out of the rodent dying? From what I saw, his BP killed a mouse, and he got a sweet pic from it.

People need to get off their soapboxes before they fall and hurt someone.

hhw

11-30-04, 02:52 AM

Originally posted by Brent Strande
I think that this site is beginning to criticize way too much. Where in his original post did he say that he got pleasure out of the rodent dying? From what I saw, his BP killed a mouse, and he got a sweet pic from it.

It was the choice of words. "Sweet" was obviously used to describe the kill and not the picture, as can be seen from his first sentence. I think most people would agree the use of the phrase "sweet kill" would imply that he took pleasure out of the rodent dying. He even comments on how he loves that the tongue is hanging out.

Not to mention, the indications of the mouse's suffering before death in the picture is quite apparent. Drawing in little tear drops would not make it any more obvious that it suffered. The picture shows very little else.

RepTylE

11-30-04, 03:11 AM

I think that glorifying this aspect of reptile keeping is what adds the geek factor to our hobby. I have always thought that we should be trying to gain acceptance in society instead of reinforcing stereotypes.
I mean if you are a geek that's fine, not much chance of changing your attitude or maturity level in this forum but please don't attract attention to the act.

There are a great deal of us that would rather educate the public and legitimize our past time instead of negative imaging.

BoidKeeper

11-30-04, 05:02 AM

I think that this site is beginning to criticize way too much
This site has always been critical of, poor husbandry and irresponsible owners. Criticism as long as it’s constructive is a very good thing. However, no matter how constructive some people will always be offended. Whether it comes for here about how they care for their pets or form their boss at their jobs, some people just can’t handle criticism. As long as you have public forums that bring people together who share something in common you will have members of who group criticizing each other. The factors that need to be controlled are the quality of the criticism and the response to that criticism.
It’s mods like Heather that help to keep these things in balance. Here’s what she did. A new member post a pic of what he describes as a “kill pic”. Then a senior member posts a criticism of that person’s choice of words and describes how those words reflect upon their attitude. The new member comes back with an aggressive response. At this point the mod steps in and politely reminds the new member of the sites polices with regards to posting and informs the new member that the sites senior members speak from experience. This is what makes a site successful and keeps criticism and responses positive.
Like I said this site and others like it are not becoming too critical, they’ve always been and always will be. Perhaps a more accurate statement would be to say that the criticism on this site has been somewhat less then constructive as of late. I just may be inclined to agree with you on that. The members know who they are and as far as I’m concerned are working on being more constructive. This site is the best anywhere because of its members both critical and otherwise.
Happy posting,
Trevor

MouseKilla

11-30-04, 06:16 AM

I have to agree with you on all of that Trevor, I know the constructive criticism I have been fortunate enough to receive on this site has helped me to correct many problems that I didn't even know I had.

That doesn't mean that the helpful criticism didn't come with a whack of superior attitudes but in the end it was certainly a net gain for me. If you have to put up with some flawed personalities to gain some really good knowledge it's worth it in my mind.

As for snakes that won't touch F/T, I'm surprised that I haven't seen anyone suggest a F/K or stunned item. If those don't work I've found mouse-scenting a rat (or even switching to mice) can do the trick too.

Manitoban Herps

11-30-04, 07:37 AM

I was worried for my plains hog nose I kept for 6 months b/c it wouldn't eat f/t mice, but I didn't want to feed it live b/c all a hog nose does is start to eat the mouse from the side so if I were to feed it a live mouse there is a good chance he would be bitten, so I stunned the mouse and he ate them.

I feel that stunning a mouse is more cruel then feeding plain live.

Tim_Cranwill

11-30-04, 09:57 AM

Kevin, this has nothing to do with live feeding. It has to do with the way which the original poster appeared to glorify the "sweet kill" part of it. Not one person has criticized his live feeding. He told us early on that his BP was a poor feeder. That justifies a live feeding to 95% of ball keepers… as long as it’s done properly.

Knowing rodents have to die for us to keep our "pets" is just a fact of life. It's when people seem to enjoy that fact that you'll start to get the criticism you're seeing here.

And about the criticism, should we be holding back? Why shouldn't we express our opinions? The people criticizing are the ones that remained civil once the insults started coming. We have as much right to <u>tactfully</u> criticize posts/opinions/practices as you "non-critical" people have the right to say "Nice pic!" Receiving criticism is an important part of learning. If we can’t learn from this site, what is the point of it?

Now bashing, on the other hand is never justified or necessary. THAT’S what we need to be concerned about.

jglass38

11-30-04, 11:52 AM

Trevor is right all the way on this. I completely understand the need to feed live at times (although I think it might be a cop out to just say your snake wont eat F/T and leave it at that) but he seemed to take pleasure in the death of the mouse. Poorly word and warranting criticism.

RB420

11-30-04, 12:53 PM

ok well i think"Anyway, it can't be denied that it is exciting to see a snake constrict a rodent to death, marvelling at the finely tuned evolved characteristics of our magnificent pets" kinda sums up what i was getting at with all of this. i ddin't mean to offend anyone, but i do enjoy watching my snake kill.... but part of me does feel sorry for the little mouse...but thats just how things work in nature....again apologies to everyone i offended.

oh yeah and about his jaw being bent down and possible biting my snale. i checked very well after and no signs of any bite mark.

oh and another thing....anyone have any tips on how to get BPs on to rats? i would really like to get him on to rats, but he wont take frozen ones, or even fresh killed ones and i kno rats are more agressive and i don't really wanna feed live ones.

cjice

11-30-04, 01:19 PM

Im not sure whether your problem is switching from live prey to f/t or switching from mice to rats...Kinda sounds like both. In my personal experience, I had no problems switching from mice to rats, but I still cant get my bp to eat f/t rats or mice. I posted a similar question recently and I am still waiting it out. If your snake wont eat f/t or even fresh killed, it sounds like the bigger problem of the two is getting him to eat ANYTHING that isnt live. If you must feed live, restrain the rat with tongs. Good luck.

marisa

11-30-04, 01:22 PM

I have a ball that will only take live rats and nothing else. It's a worry for me everytime I feed her.

At this point I simply feed a smaller rat than she can take as rats are very aggresive. I also watch the entire time with a pair of tongs ready in case I need to hold the rat down or prevent injury.

As for switching over, it can be a real pain. Maybe try skipping a few feedings then offering a fresh killed small rat.

Marisa

BoidKeeper

11-30-04, 01:33 PM

FYI lucky. I see there is tape on your hide box. That is an accident waiting to happen. Ask anyone who's ever had to take tape off a snake or a snake off of tape. Tape an cages don't mix.
Cheers,
Trevor

joey

11-30-04, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by BoidKeeper
Looks like urine on the paper towel. I think he really is bragging about his snake killing something.
Tell me please, what is so sweet about watching something die? Slowly and painfully I might add. Feeding live is a fact of life for some ball owners but they don't take pleasure in it. Most don't enjoy the experience at all because they are too worried about their snake getting bitten to take any pleasure or enjoyment out of the experience.
Trevor

I'm with you alll-the-way, Trevor.

lucky8926

11-30-04, 01:38 PM

Thanks for the info trevor. After I shortened that hide it was the only way I could think of to re-attach the top. I'll get him something else ASAP. Thanks again!

BoidKeeper

11-30-04, 01:48 PM

Wal-mart has black shoe box size rubbermaids. I just but a hole in the lide and they can go in and out through the top.
Cheers,
Trevor

lucky8926

11-30-04, 01:52 PM

Do you think that will be too big? I thought the hide should be just big enough for them to fit in since they like to feel the hide touching their body. He is only 4 months old, appprox 20" long. I haven't weighed him yet but the biggest part of his body is approx 3" around.

CamHanna

11-30-04, 05:26 PM

frozen thawed mice are not available in my area and i don't think driving for 2 hours for a frozen mouse is worth it
Your profile says you are from Hamilton. I'm sure if you check a few different pet shops in your area you can find FT, no problem. You could also buy FT from a feeder breeder, I've found I like Mice4You (www.mice4you.com).

As for getting your Ball on frozen food, you can look around the Internet and find tonnes of methods. Balls feed much better when the feeder is hot. I've had good luck heating the mouse until it burst then moveing it around with tongs infront of the snake. This is a stinky and messy proceedure but it's worked for me more than once.

Good Luck

BoidKeeper

11-30-04, 05:41 PM

I didn't realize what size he was. You can also try the clay bottom of a flower pot.
Cheers,
Trevor

hhw

11-30-04, 06:00 PM

Clay bottom of flower pots work fantastic. They've got good weight to them, have a low profile, and are circular like a coiled up ball. If you're hesitant as to how to make an entrance, pro exotics has a video clip on their site on how to do it. Just hold it out and give a nice hard whack into the lip.

I use actual clay pots for my adults; in this case, due to the increased height, in order to keep the entrance small I just hold the pot up against the edge of a garbage can, and it helps to focus the force into a smaller area.

Anyway, work on getting onto f/t mice first. In my opinion, just work on it gradually. First feed live from tongs, then try prekill from tongs before finally trying a f/t. Heating up the rodent sufficiently is the critical factor for a lot of the pickier eaters, so work on that. I personally have had better luck keeping the rodents dry before feeding (I use a few old school unix workstations' ventilation exhaust), but a lot of people use hot water and have success with wet rodents (not necessarily purposefully, but you tend to get some water in the bag).