Do you wash your hands after handling herps?

[ChunkyMunky]

I am curious of how many people out there do? When I got my first snake, I would ALWAYS wash my hands after handling. Now, a couple years down the road, i rarely do. If im cleaning up feces, of course ill wash hands afterwards lol. I'm just talking about after "handling".

Take care.

Dan.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Every single time. But I do it with anything man. If I take off my shoes, I'll wash my hands. LOL! I probably wash them 30 times a day!

[michaelman25]

you must be ocd i am 2

[chong_python]

I have a huge bottle of hand sanitizer in my herp room, So when ever i do anything in there i just use some of that before i leave.

[NiagaraReptiles]

I have a Purell Dispenser on the wall in my herp room. Depending on which animals I'm cleaning or handling I use it more often than others.........

JonK

[Bartman]

Unless I touch something gross then I wash, but if im just holding my snake or whoever, then no...I never wash.

[Invictus]

Same here. I'm not OCD nor am I overly paranoid. :)

[AtlanticReptile]

I always do, just to be safe.

Nick

Atlantic Reptiles

[RepTylE]

I always do with antibacterial soap. I'm a hand washer anyway, lol. A kid I knew wayyyyyy back told me about getting sick from his herps and it stuck with me. I know that he probably didn't use good husbandry practices like I do but you never know and getting sick isn't what I got into herps for.

[ChokeOnSmoke]

I always do as well. At least I think I always do.

[Brent Strande]

I don't believe in germs... they're made up by the soap companies to sell their product... have YOU ever seen a germ? ;)

[Dani33]

I always do. If I don't and than think about it, I feel nauseous - lol. I have to wash them with soap and water too. Hand sanitizer doesn't feel clean enough to me. I'm chronic I guess.

[ydnic]

yeah I do

I have hand sanitizer by my enclosures and in my igauna room that I use but thats just until I make my way over to the sink to wash with soap - but I can`t even touch anything in public - ie door knobs, railings, ect

[Bartman]

I personally think hand sanitizer, or at least purell (sp) is a load of crap. I was told by someone that by now the bacteria has mutated to be immune to it and all you’re doing is mushing it around your hands. I personally think soap and water is the best way to wash your hands...

[Invictus]

I personally think that washing your hands after handling a snake is just propagating the myth that all snakes carry salmonella, and that you will get sick if you don't. Just what we need... more myths being spread and more cause for people to calls snakes "dangerous".

[ydnic]

i dunno I think the chance that there is pee or something on it (i don`t bath my snakes daily) is a good reason to wash up

but I just don`t like pee lol

[concept3]

If im going to handle another herp I will, but not if i olny handle the one. I would lick anyone of my snakes or lizards to prove the point I wont get sick from them. But then again Im on Brents side Ive never seen a germ so I dont beleive in them LOL.

[Bartman]

I think that myth comes from turtles, gators, or anything aquatic because they swim in their crap all day so germs would build up. I dont think its the same for snakes/lizards unless the tanks a real mess or its sitting in its crap.

[marisa]

I think hand washing after holding a reptile is just plain good hygiene. LOL. Not myth pushing.

I am not saying you should or shouldn't wash your hands. Either way, whatever is good for you. For me, I definitly wash my hands after holding a reptile, petting my dog for a good amount of time, touching the cats, fish stuff, eating, holding money, etc. Simple hand washing is effectively the best way to prevent common bugs that go around as well. Not to mention I just happen to like clean hands :)

I also use Purell in the herp room.

Marisa

[ydnic]

yeah - lol

I guess I do kiss my snakes some times when they are being cute - my iguana too

so i guess umm - yeah my hand washing is just a problem i have

[chong_python]

lol, the sanitizer i use i find works. it says it kills 99.9 % of germs ( for what thats worth )... when you put that on your hands it almost burns. But its just until i can find a sink. Id rather use a bit of that on then nothing at all. And as for germs mutating and becoming immuned seems a bit far fetched you know one of those a friend of a friend stories lol

[Invictus]

Hey, don't get me wrong, if the reason I'm handling my reptile is because it is being cleaned, hell... I dunno where he's been between the time he took a crap and the time I handled him! That's good cause for a handwash. But for routine handling, I don't bother. If the cage is clean, the reptile probably is too.

and ydinc - I kiss my snakes occasionally too, and I don't give a damn what anyone says about it! lol

[Matt_K]

Originally posted by Bartman
I personally think hand sanitizer, or at least purell (sp) is a load of crap. I was told by someone that by now the bacteria has mutated to be immune to it and all you’re doing is mushing it around your hands. I personally think soap and water is the best way to wash your hands...

Yeah, it's sooo much crap that it's what they use in the hospitals... :confused:

I guess im just friggin weird then.. I wash my hands BEFORE I pick up a snake and after I put it back.. If im handling more then one snake, i'll wash my hands with my Purell between every snake.. I don't do it cause im worried about getting anything on ME, I do it as a caution of getting something on them, whether from another snake or something I picked up on my hands througout the day.. Better safe then sorry..

-Matt

[lostwithin]

Good answer invictus, I'll go with that as well. But in all reality it just doesn’t fizz on me any more, I don’t even think about it, I mean how many thousands of people pet the dog and don’t even think about it and I’m sure most dogs are much dirtier then my snakes.

Devon

[Artemis]

I do, myth or no myth, I dont want salmonella, and it is a possibilty, whether or not a guarantee, so it's not worth the risk to me. I wash my hands a lot anyways, just a good idea in general.

Artemis

[HeatherRose]

I personally think hand sanitizer, or at least purell (sp) is a load of crap. I was told by someone that by now the bacteria has mutated to be immune to it and all you’re doing is mushing it around your hands. I personally think soap and water is the best way to wash your hands...

If bacteria's had enough time to become immune to alcohol-based hand sanitizer, then it must have had more than enough time to become immune to soap ;)

Aside from that...salmonella in herps is far from a myth!

http://www.stopgettingsick.com/Conditions/condition_template.cfm/2313/251/1

http://www.icomm.ca/dragon/salmonella.htm

http://www.spcaofpinellas.org/new_petbehavior/SalmonellaReptilesandYourHealth.htm

One quote from the end link states:

"Several studies have been conducted to determine the extent of Salmonella infections in certain species of reptiles. Roughly 16%-92% of the snakes and 36%-77% of lizards (including iguanas) surveyed had Salmonella. Turtles and tortoises had rates of 12%-85% testing positive. Reptile owners can have their pet tested for Salmonella bacteria. Several tests are sometimes required to accurately determine its presence. If the results are positive, successful treatment is often difficult to achieve and may result in your pet carrying a resistant strain of salmonella."

-Heather

[Bartman]

I was told, which isnt the best argument back :p, that they do mutate to become more immune to the sanitizer. Dont quote me on that as I dont know if its true, but thats what I was told...

Just because they use it in hospitals, doesnt mean it works..it most likely does, but people use a lot of stuff that supposedly work.

As for the salmonella, how does it exactly show up on certain lizards/snakes? Not trying to question these facts, just curious why some have it and some dont. What I was saying is it could have something to do with husbandry issues. i.e not cleaning feces.




edit: I personally think that alwasy washing your hands blah blah is something pushed on by society and is now just something you do and it will keep you clean. I bet most bacteria, which could get you sick, could enter your system either way. If you touch a dirty public handrail or something and then go wash your hands, I doubt it will stop it from getting you sick. Dont most virus's move through the air anyway?

I agree it will aid in preventing sometimes, but it forsure doesnt stop it....

[Matt_K]

Originally posted by Bartman
Just because they use it in hospitals, doesnt mean it works..it most likely does, but people use a lot of stuff that supposedly work.

Right.. So if there's a better product out there for them to use, they're going to ignore it cause they THINK purell works?? You do realize how sanitary hospitals are, right???

[Bartman]

Yes, but they use soap and water, or that special type of soap I always see surgeons using in movies :p

I just dont think purell really works......well at least not anymore.

[HeatherRose]

"The most common source of Salmonella infection is improperly handled food. Salmonella bacteria can be harbored in the gastrointestinal tracts of many species of animal, including poultry, cattle, and pigs, presenting a risk of contamination of meat and eggs during processing. Salmonella can also be carried by pets (including cats and dogs), but especially reptiles and amphibians. As high as 90% of reptiles are natural carriers of Salmonella bacteria, harboring strains specific to reptiles without any symptoms of disease in the reptile. While it is true that many pets can carry Salmonella, the problem with reptiles (and apparently amphibians) is that they carry Salmonella with such high frequency. It is prudent to assume that all reptiles and amphibians can be a potential source of Salmonella"

^^^For the lazy among us, to summarize, salmonella is naturally harboured in the gastrointestinal tract of some animals, and at a higher frequency in some herptiles.

Just because they use it in hospitals, doesnt mean it works..it most likely does, but people use a lot of stuff that supposedly work.

You can think it doesn't work...but Alcohol is an ANTISEPTIC. It kills germs, period. I could *think* humans don't need oxygen to live all I like, but science would prove me wrong...as it does here.

[Bartman]

Thanks. Sort of proved me wrong their.....:p

But I dont at all agree with this line..

"It is prudent to assume that all reptiles and amphibians can be a potential source of Salmonella"

I know that I dont have enough reptiles to say that ive never gotten it and I dont wash my hands after handling, but I havnt. I just dont really like when people say assume. I can assume lots of stuff. Ive also handled a ton of different animals at work (reptiles/amphibs) and have yet to even get a cold, thank god, for the last year id say.

[Matt_K]

Originally posted by Bartman
Yes, but they use soap and water, or that special type of soap I always see surgeons using in movies :p


Yes, and in Movies, Giant Poop monsters come out of the toilet...

http://www.dogma-movie.com/pics/strip/images/golgothan1.jpg

I just dont think purell really works......well at least not anymore.

:confused:

[Bartman]

I wasnt saying anything about movies being right, I was just saying they use, which they DO, that soap. I know its no normal soap you find at shoppers.

Im trying to imply that soap and water is ten times better then purell or any of that crap. It even says it doesnt kill all germs..so id rather just flush em down the drain then "kill" them.

[HeatherRose]

AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA DOGMA :D

""It is prudent to assume that all reptiles and amphibians can be a potential source of Salmonella"

I know that I dont have enough reptiles to say that ive never gotten it and I dont wash my hands after handling, but I havnt. I just dont really like when people say assume. I can assume lots of stuff. Ive also handled a ton of different animals at work (reptiles/amphibs) and have yet to even get a cold, thank god, for the last year id say."

Yeah, but that is just the same as cooking your burgers all the way through, because we tend to just assume they could ALL have e. coli.

-Heather

[Derrick]

I wash my hands before handling them. I'm probably dirtier than them.


yes, yes I'm a dirty old man:p

[sweet]

I wash my hads because I see what comes out of my snake, yuk.

[Bartman]

Ok, let me summarize what my key point of washing your hands is.

Im saying soap and water is better then purell and I think its all bs. Id say it did the best when sars hit canada because people thought it would kill everything. I say washing them off your hands rather then mushing them around is better then purell.

Im also saying that washing your hands is pushed on by society so much that we just think if we dont do it we will get sick.

[marisa]

"I know that I dont have enough reptiles to say that ive never gotten it and I dont wash my hands after handling, but I havnt. I just dont really like when people say assume. I can assume lots of stuff. Ive also handled a ton of different animals at work (reptiles/amphibs) and have yet to even get a cold, thank god, for the last year id say."

It's not really the simple act of handling that causes salmonella. It's by possibly getting the animals feces into your mouth via your hands that transfers it. Animals simple track through there feces once in awhile, you hold them, don't wash, later eat. Boom salmonella.

Of course not every reptile has it, but it's a proven fact SOME do. Our job as educated reptile owners is not to "de-bunk" and fight every single seemingly negative aspect of reptile ownership, but to look at the negative points (because there ARE some) and then educate others on how to avoid them, or the consequences of them. Totally ignoring that snakes DO and CAN harbor salmonella is not helping. But educated on hand washing, fecal testing, etc DOES help.

This is all just IMHO and salmonella or no, I am still a hand washer. :D:D:D:D

Marisa

[CDN-Cresties]

Anitbacterial soap provides an enviroment where weak strains of bacteria die and those resistant bacteria become even more resistant. ITS EVOLUTION BABY!!! :)

http://waynepaulson.topcities.com/HelthL30.htm

[Matt_K]

Originally posted by Bartman
I wasnt saying anything about movies being right, I was just saying they use, which they DO, that soap.

I know, i just wanted to post a pic of the poop monster from Dogma! :D

[Bartman]

:p HAHAHA..that was a great movie!

[daver676]

I always wash before handling, and usually after. I always wash after I have to pick her up after making a big mess.

[smallball]

Really, why not take the time to wash your hands. I don't know about cleanliness with the rest of herpers but I think taking the few moments to wash my hands after holding my snakes is probably not a bad idea.
Just my thoughts on the subject

Br@d

[Lrptls]

i have this wonderful little blue bottle called wipe out, its a nice little liquid i just rub in my hands for about 3 seconds and it evaporates, i use it almost every time i even put my hands in a herp cage.

now, i wont bother using it after handling amphibians but i usually use it after the lizards and snakes. i always use it after touching turtles or even simply turtle water because for some reason i just dont trust those little shelled critters.

if i do any cleaning of their cages, even just water bowls i will use it.

[Bartman]

Yea, dont get me wrong..ill forsure wash my hands after cleaning's or after dealing with rats (feedings).

Thats hygiene, but I dont think touching another person or touching a snake is any different.

[wetlander]

I try to ....but sometime I forget. I always do when handling turtles in captivity but I usually don't think about it when I handle one in the wild.

I think the purell is better than antibacterial soaps. From what I remember in the reports, the problem with the soaps, either hand or dishwashing, is that the soap usually doesn't stay in contact long enough to kill all the bacteria so resistant strains can emerge. With purell it stays on your hands so it has a better chance or killing all or most of the germs

[Boidbrain]

I wash my hands before and after handling my snakes, rats, mice, and my wife's dog. But what about the fact that you turn the faucet on, wash your hands, then turn the faucet off. Any germs on your hand before you turn the water on could get back on your hand when you turn the water back off anyway. Just something to think about.

[Invictus]

Remember also that even if a snake is harboring salmonella, it doesn't mean you are going to get it. It has to be VERY concentrated to be able to affect the human body. We do have immune systems, ya know.

I don't do it probably for the same reason that I eat my steak blue rare - I have better things to do with my life than live in fear of what "might" happen. I use common sense, but I don't allow paranoia to consume me. Generally speaking, I wash my hands before I eat anyway, but as I said, unless my snake has made a mess in its cage, I don't bother washing after routine handling.

[Linds]

I ALWAYS wash my hands after handling reptiles, and in between handling eachother. I use dishsoap and follow up with 99% rubbing alcohol occassionally. I have a crappy immune system and am unwilling to take any chances like that, nor am I willing to take any chances of getting my herps sick.

Originally posted by Dani33
I always do. If I don't and than think about it, I feel nauseous - lol. I have to wash them with soap and water too. Hand sanitizer doesn't feel clean enough to me. I'm chronic I guess.

LOL with good reason. Hand sanitizer is only 65% or something alcohol, which cannot kill many things. Even 99% pure isopropyl alcohol is only capable of killing some bacteria... it is incapable of killing bacterial spores, fungus, or yeast. I think its strength on viruses is questionable. So in essence, its better than nothing, but not necessarily good enough in some cases.

Originally posted by wetlander
I think the purell is better than antibacterial soaps. From what I remember in the reports, the problem with the soaps, either hand or dishwashing, is that the soap usually doesn't stay in contact long enough to kill all the bacteria so resistant strains can emerge. With purell it stays on your hands so it has a better chance or killing all or most of the germs

Proper handwashing *should* ideally be 10 minutes, but even a few minutes is sufficient. Purell is just alcohol, and the alcohol evaporates in 30 seconds, so it doesn't remain on your skin at all. Anitbacterial soap really shoudln't be used unless it has to be, due to the problems with bacteria progressively developing resistances to it. Many people don't need to use it in their day to day lives, but do so as a result of the media scaring them in to such.

[Bartman]

Anitbacterial soap really shoudln't be used unless it has to be, due to the problems with bacteria progressively developing resistances to it. Many people don't need to use it in their day to day lives, but do so as a result of the media scaring them in to such.


That was exactly my point. I assumed that purell was the same sort of idea, but that could just be wrong.

[SpiderLord]

i have ocd...it really sucks...i wash my hands ALL the time...i also am autistic, and i have asburghers...im messed up

[concept3]

ANY egg laying animal has the potential to carry salmonella. The reason it is most commonly assosiated with miss handeled food is because some of the food we eat is raised in A LOT more discusting conditions than any of our (well at least mine) animals are kept in. Have you ever been inside a chicken coop? Well if you have you will realize they keep 50 chickens in a ten foot by ten foot box, thus creating unsanitary bacterium thriving environments. Same goes with pigs, chicken and turkeys, this is why you cant eat it raw like beef. If you maintain your snakes environments the chances of salmonella showing up are reduced dramaticly. Not saying they CANT have it but more than likely DONT.

[mudflats]

I wash my hands. Because if i am handling the snakes its for cleaning purposes. Handling feces here and there, some thawed rats, feces still wet and warm (chick feces smells the worst on your hands). So i tend to wash after that. Washing before handling to prevent spreading anything on you is also great i try to remind myself. But them giving me disease, i laugh at that. Salmonella is an excuse for parents to not buy there children reptiles, and in fact 30% of all canines tested where carrying salmonella. I have caught water turtles with algea on there backs, i have touched my mouth after that so many times, hell i bet if you added it all up it would be the equevlent of me eating the algae on there backs. Only "disease" i have gotten from a herp was getting scratched by the claw of a wild gator. Horrible bacteria on them toes, like a komodo dragon. Got a horrible infection. but other then that i protest in the whole hand washing after handling herps unless you have feces or food items of theres on you.

[rwg]

A few thoughts...

As high as 90% of reptiles carry salmonella in their feces. For comparison, I read that with domestic cats it's estimated to be around 30%, also in the feces. It is a pretty safe assumption that your reptiles carry salmonella. Aquatic herps get a bad rap for it because they swim in their feces, so it's much more likely that you will come in contact with fecal matter during handling. Pretty much guaranteed in fact.

You are unlikely to get sick from salmonella unless you either come in contact with a sufficient amount, or your immune system is compromised. The very young and elderly can be at risk for example.

A large part of the cleaning you get from washing your hands is due to the machanical aspect. You basically physically rub off the germs, and they go down the drain. This is why in hospitals, doctors use soap and water, but they have protocols about how long they should scrub their hands.

Purell: Alcohol is not one of the ingredients scientists and the medical community are concerned about when they talk about resistant bacteria strains. There are statements to that effect found on the net if you look.

I use purell between animals at the zoo when working there to prevent transmission between animals should there be anything "going around". My kids (5 and 2 1/2) always wash with purell after handling at home. I try to use purell after handling, but occasionally forget at home. My pet theory is that I'm self immunizing against salmonella, but I have no science to back that up. :)

rg