How to kill a mouse

[tai_pan1]

I now have 4 corns (which I hope to breed) and the food bill is getting expensive. I've thought about raising mice so that I have a readily available, cheaper (I hope) food supply. I've always fed f/t and would like to continue to do so. My question is what is the most humane way to kill the mice before I freeze them? Any help would be very much appreciated.

Thanks,

Mike

[Pixie]

I've gotten a lot of grief when answering this question on another forum! I prefer to freeze them directly but I know it doesn't take very long this way.

The first time I did it was because my male mouse ate more than half my very pregnant female. I was so mad I just put him in a tupperware (that incidentaly had vent holes) and threw him in the freezer. I checked back in 5 minutes, almost to the second and the bugger was already stiff! Now my freezer is at the coldest it can be and I'm sure the vent holes on the lid of the small container helped. So since then that's what I've been doing, mostly with juvenile mice since that's what my corns are eating at the moment.

For my ball, I pre-kill the mice. I put them in a fabric bag and give em a good whack on the ceramic of the toilet bowl then feed to my snake. You could do something of the likes to your mice before freezing them if you think freezing them outright isn't good for you.

[Scotty Allen]

If you are only killing a few at a time, the simplest and most humane method is quickly breaking their necks. Get someone to show you how though to avoid as much pain as possible. Yes, they're only mice but they're still alive.

[tai_pan1]

Quick and painless is what I'm looking for if possible. I'm not sure how to break the neck of a pinky. Oh well, I guess I'll figure it all out.

[Scotty Allen]

I did'nt realize you were talking about pinks. If CO2 gas is not an option for you, a sharp smack on the floor or other convienient solid object works. This takes a little practice. I'll probably get drawn and quatered for this suggestion, but it won't be the first time. Also, many people will just put live pinks directly in the freezer. I'm sure this is pretty quick, but I don't like it personally. Drowning in very cold water is also fairly quick.

[jsnake0]

if you can CO2 is the best you and get canisters of it
have heard of people useing dry ice
co2 is not hard to set up small box regulator and a bottle of co2

breaking necks put side of pencil/pen across base of head pess
down and forward quickly needs lots of force
or wack them on the edge of a table

[reverendsterlin]

I wack them on the floor. A word of experience, I did raise mice and rats for a couple of years for feeders by the time enclosures, food (pro lab diet is spendy), and my time were figured it was cheaper to buy bulk frozen. Not to mention the stink!

[tai_pan1]

LOL! I'm afraid my wife and kids will fall in love with them and not let me feed them to the snakes!

[Lisa]

we buy in bulk from a supplier like mice4you their prices are amazing, you don't have to kill the mice (they arrive frozen) and you don't have to feed them or clean cages.

[Kyle Walkinshaw]

Easiest way to wack mice in to simply hold it by the tail and "wack" the back of its neck agaist the corner of a hard surface.

[gunnerslakeshor]

Ive always just put mice in a suitable container (tupperware) and poped them into the freezer its hypothermia that kills them they just go to sleep no mess or sharp broken bones to worry about.
Leave them for about 15 min then remove and bag seperately in the best freezer bags you can afford ( no feezer burn this way).
I think its far kinder than smashing them on a table. jmho.
Phil

[tai_pan1]

I heard that freezing them alive was extremely painful due to the cells in the body rupturing from the cold? Forget where I heard that.

[rattekonigin]

By the time the cells freeze and burst, the animal is long dead...it can't live once it's body temp drops a few degrees and that isn't anywhere near the freezing point. The cells have to actually freeze to burst, if they didn't people would have a big problem going outside in the winter.

[Pixie]

Death by hypothermia starts with falling asleep. When the body gets too cold the metabolic state slows to a crawl and they fall asleep. It's after that that death occurs so it wouldn't be painful per say, just cold for a while.

[vanderkm]

Death by hypothermia actually progresses through intense shivering and searching for warmth - it takes a while to get to losing consciousness. The drive to preserve body temperature is very strong, especially in young animals and I find it impossible to believe that freezing to death can be considered humane. I think people feel it is acceptable because they don't have to see the animal suffer. Freezing animals alive may not be messy, but immediate unconsciousness is more humane.
Carbon dioxide gas is a good method for humane killing prey animals, but may not be practical for small numbers. A rodent that has had it's neck broken correctly will lose consciousness immediately from the trauma to the base of the brain and death follows rapidly. Movements that occur are reflex and not an indication of conscious pain. A strong blow to the head, appropriate to the size of the animal, will have the same result. Pinkies and small fuzzies can be rendered unconscious by a finger snap to the head without damaging the body extensively. I consider any of these more humane than freezing alive.

Mary v.

[Pixie]

I agree that death by hypothermia is not as quick as other methods like giving it a strong blow to the brain or other ways. But a lot of people don't have the ressources or money to set up carbon dioxide chambers or know how to snap their necks properly. I personally use the two first ways mentionned in this message.

I prekill my mice for my bp by whacking them hard against the ceramic of the toilet bowl and I've seen 3 that took quite a while to die (my snake wasn't hungry) after 10 minutes, I couldn't bear to see the mice twitch and move it's upper legs so I flushed them. I had whacked them pretty darn hard and usually a 2nd shot to be sure. I learned not to do it super hard to avoid a gross mess.

It's just my personal opinion but those mice seemed to be quite uncomfortable and in pain. I have frozen adult mice before and in my freezer they're hard in 5 minutes. So I believe that death would occur at around 2 or 3 minutes for them to have gotten that hard in 5. I've tried the finger snap on a small fuzzy and the thing ended up at the other end of the room and still alive.

So unless it's for my bp that only takes them prekilled for now, I much prefer freezing. Now, if anyone could teach me how to break the necks of mice properly and quickly, I'm all ears. I would rather do it this way but it's not easy to learn without someone to show you how.

[vanderkm]

The best way to learn to kill prey rodents is by having someone who is experienced show you, but failing that I can offer some suggestions. I would encourage you to practice the methods on pre-killed rodents until you feel comfortable that you have it right before trying on live ones. Prepare yourself to accept the kicking, it is a reflex result of nerves firing due to damage to the brain and spinal cord. It should stop within about a minute, but during the movement the animal is not conscious if the methods are done right (pupils are fully dilated and no corneal reflex present). The animal is already brain dead and not feeling pain.
If your fuzzy ended up across the room, it is because you weren't holding the body firmly enough and your snap was directed more to the side of the head than straight down. I use the finger snap method with pinkies and fuzzies. I place a soft towel on top of a brick on a table top - so there is a hard, solid base with a soft covering for them to grip. I grasp the rodent firmly by the hindquarters, just over the hips, with my left thumb and forefinger and hold them firmly down on the towel so they cannot move forward. The tail is too delicate (it can separate) to hold at this age. I rest my right middle finger on the right thumb, direct it downward, so that my fingernail will hit the rodent directly on the top of the head over the brain, compressing the skull between my fingernail and the brick when my finger snaps off my thumb. By using downward direction and holding firmly with the other hand, you make sure all the force is directed to the brain. You need some control to avoid rupturing the skull, so practice on fuzzies before doing pinkies - pinkies don't need much force. I place them in a container of shavings to absorb any urine, or blood and remove them when they stop kicking and freeze or feed.
For mice and gerbils, from hoppers to adults, and young rats I use the same brick, without the towel and prefer to break their neck rather than stunning them by smashing their skull since it is more controlled and accurate. I hold them by the tail, (near the base for gerbils who slip their tail skin off very easily) and place them on the brick. They will grasp the rough surface with their front feet and pull themselves forward, typically extending their head and neck and tightening against your hold on their tail. It is rare that they turn around, so usually they are perfectly positioned, but if not, I just lift them up and put them back down until they stretch out.
I use a smooth, moderately heavy, and narrow metal rod (the metal part of a screwdriver works fine) and place it across the neck, just behind the skull and press downward and a bit forward. Your movement should be quick, without hesitation and very firm - not jerky or harsh - you are not hitting them, you are using the tool to separate the skull from the neck. If you don't follow through, the animal will be curious at the touch on it's fur and will turn and be more likley to struggle. This is why it is a good idea to practice on some dead ones. You will push the rod down firmly until it is flat on the brick surface and you are sure you have broken completely through the neck. Maintain a firm hold on the tail but you don't need to pull it. The animal will kick a lot from massive nerve stimulation, but the trauma to the spinal cord renders it unconscious virtually immediately. The skin should not break, but the metal rod will be flat on the brick, with just skin in between when the neck has been correctly broken. The animal can be placed in a covered container of shavings to absorb urine, feces and any blood and then the shavings cleaned off before freezing or feeding. There is rarely much blood unless you damage the brain directly by hitting too far forward. The blood from breaking their necks is retained under the skin and shows as a bruise after death.
Killing adult rats is very difficult to do by breaking their necks in this way, due to the amount of neck muscle they have built up. I really suggest having someone show you a proper stunning method if you chose not to buy frozen or use carbon dioxide for adult rats. A sharp blow to the head is an effective stunning method, but putting a rat in a bag and slamming it on a hard surface will often not render it unconscious without several blows, resulting in other broken bones and trauma before unconsciousness sets in.
I will be happy to try and clarify any parts of this long description that you have questions on - just may take a day or so, I am not on forum every day. The most important part is to practice on some deads so that you can do it smoothly and with confidence the first time you try, so you are not jerking your hands, dropping the animal or needing to make more than one attempt to kill it.

Mary v.

[tai_pan1]

Thanks Mary.

[Pixie]

Thank you Mary for explaining how to properly kill snake prey for me and others. It's just not something that's easy to find out. I will definitively start trying your techniques on some already dead ones first to get some practice in and then when I feel ready, go ahead and give it a try on live mice. I don't have to deal with adult rats for a while so I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

Thanks again, this info is much appreciated :)

[vanderkm]

No problem, I know how hard it can be to become confident with a new skill without someone to show you. I am struggling with learning to probe snakes - no matter how often you see it done, it is different when you are the one trying to feel just how hard to push!

Best of luck,

Mary v.

[tai_pan1]

I'll save probing for later, much later.