Is cooling required for breeding corns?

[Tigergenesis]

I've started looking into breeding and have found a few people say they never cool. I was having a difficult time figuring out how I might cool a breeding pair (I don't have a cool room like a basement to use) and someone suggested a fridge. Then I got a suggestion that it's not required, but that same person does not provide any supplemental heat (temp gradient) to their corns anyway. I do give a gradient.

I was wondering what others think about not cooling and if anyone has any tips on how I might be able to cool w/o a basement, etc.

Also, at what age/weight, etc can you begin breeding?


Thanks!

[jjnnbns]

If you wanna cool them and right now have supplemental heating, turn it off. Won't that bring down your temps?

[Mike177]

Corn snakes are very easy to breed and alot of the time cooling is not needed but recomended. some people put corns in plastic shoe boxes then put them up in a dark closet or something simmalar for the cooling.

[Tigergenesis]

Originally posted by jjnnbns
If you wanna cool them and right now have supplemental heating, turn it off. Won't that bring down your temps?

It would lower my temps on the warm side to equal the cool side temps, but not as low as I've been reading they should be cooled to (my room temp would be 72-74). Is that enough?

[marisa]

You don't need to cool.

I bred my snow pair last year, they had never been cooled. I got 20 fertile eggs in total.

Even without cooling they know the seasons. I waited for the days to start getting longer, around march....then after she had a shed, I threw her in with the male 3 times.

Marisa

[crazyboy]

you do not need to brumate corns but it makes the males have more viable sperm and it also rests the two for a tiring process.
i beleive , am not sure, that they should be brumated in teh high 50's to low 60's

[Tigergenesis]

So if I don't cool (at least not to the low 50's, etc) can I just keep the temps the same as they are year round? Do I keep feeding them on their regular feeding schedule up until the first attempt? And what about feeding after mating while she's hopefully gravid and waiting to lay eggs?

I was thinking of trying the fridge idea but was worried about ventilation.

Thanks!

[crazyboy]

you can just keep the temps the same as what they are year round. as for feeding i dont know

[marisa]

Yes I just keep the temps the same.

As for feeding. yup feed them when they will eat. Same as normal. The male might go off feed because he is interested in breeding, not eating. The female should continue feeding heavily even while gravid, but they stop normally near laying time. This is also normal.

Marisa

[Tigergenesis]

Wow, this way sounds much easier.

When you say the 'female should continue feeding heavily even while gravid' does that mean at some point her feeding should be increased or are you saying she will continue eating as normal?

And when not cooling, how do you know when they are ready to try breeding?

And after she lays her eggs should she be feed more than usual to get her caught up or just resume normal feeding amount/frequency?

[sheffiec]

I want to breed hybrids, whoever is ok with this please give me advice on breeding. Specifically I keep the male and female together since we bought the male in the beginning of June. The species are Jungle Carpet Python and Coastal Carpet Python. Now first of all will they breed if they have not been hibernated and are always together with normal temps of such species and humidity? Next they have been in a stressed environment possibly for the last two weeks. The reason is the male, Mortecai, escaped, which left a hole in the screen so we had to put Medusa in a room that was gradient from 79-82 as high. but we eventually put the old tank in there with lighting system so she can go in. She stayed in there the whole time. We found Mortecai warm around the washer last Tuesday. So they were in that room together with the tank for about a week almost. This past Saturday we fed them and Mortecai ate, but Medusa didn't. We put them in the new large tank Sunday and Mortecai nipped Medusa twice, but then later they fell asleep together on high part of cage where it is about 89 right now. I need to know why he striked Medusa? I hear that male and female snakes hold their heads up high to show interest in breeding, Medusa was doing that a lot near Mortecai when they were in the room together in the beginning. I appreciate your patience in reading this message, and I hope you can give me soem advice and help with this.

Thanks,
Cassandra

[marisa]

Cassandra/sheffiec

I suggest your repost this in the python forum. Colubrid breeding is not the same as pythons.

Tigergenesis- I don't really feed her "more" I just mean she keeps eating up until about a week or two until laying. After laying I offer her the normal amount of food, maybe two prey items. It just depends. Last year I was giving her two prey items after laying as she had lost a bit of weight, this year though she lost almost nothing and one prey item sufficed.

As for knowing when they are ready.....like I said they know the season. Usually March/April....the female will shed, and normally after a shed is the best time to try. The males like normal will be active during this season and probably go off feed, although they don't all stop eating. My guy stops eating in early spring for round one, but after she has laid one clutch and I am re-breeding her for the second clutch, he eats all the way through and still breeds her.

Marisa

[Tigergenesis]

Thank you soooo much everyone for your help. I was beginning to get frustrated tyring to figure out how to cool. Now I'm really excited. I didn't know you could try to get them to breed again after laying one clutch.

Just curious, whey don't you cool them? Just because it's not required or are their risks to cooking you wish to avoid?

One more q: as my snakes are kept in tanks/cages, I"m assuming for the breeding or at least while I'm waiting for her to lay her eggs they should be moved to rubbermaids? If so, what's a good size?

Again, thank you!

[marisa]

I did not cool them the first year simply because I had no where to do so. This past winter i DID cool because I wanted to make sure my room got cold enough and I wanted some experience with it so I could breed my kings next year. There are risks to cooling but then again their are risks to breeding. I can't say I "almost" lost my female this year, but she did have complications.

I am sure the snakes can be bred in their current cages. I usually just throw my female in with my male or vice versa. When she has her pre lay shed, put a next box in her enclosure.

Marisa

[Tigergenesis]

You just keep making my day! LOL.

Since I have lights in my enclusre during the day, I was thinking that at the very least I could do the following (while continueing to feed)-kind of a semi cooling: perhaps begin by at least turning off the supplemental heat in their cages, later discontue using their lights (just allowing the light that comes in the window to light the room) and then later perhaps move them to separate rubbermaids into my closet where it will be darker and a bit cooler (certainly not near the 50/60 degrees) and quieter. Then after mating reverse the above steps until they are back in their cages as usual. Would this be okay (again continue to feed (or try to feed if they will eat) or just not necessary?

[vanderkm]

Some caution on the plan to turn off supplemental heat while continuing to feed - if they are being fed, they need a heat gradient approaching normal in order to digest. If temps are going to drop, not a good idea to continue offering feed.

Cooling is not even required, like Marisa said - to get breeding. Also, if you were cooling you would increase the temps and get them back up to feeding before breeding, males will often not feed after coming out of cooling until after a couple sheds when they are sure breeding season is passed. Females will usually feed readily when coming out of cooling, through breeding and until their pre-lay shed, though they want smaller meals as they get closer to pre-lay shed.

If you are considering breeding, it is really worth it to get The Cornsnake Manual by Kathy Love. It is quite cheap, contains tons of really great information and I think most of us that have corns go back to it again and again for the basics as well as detailed info on breeding process and complications. It is a worthwhile investment.

mary v.

[Tigergenesis]

Thanks. I already have this book, but it mentions cooling them before breeding and am not sure what to change or leave alone with their instructions if not cooling.

Thanks for reminding me about needing the heat for digestion. Using the method I was proposing, I don't think the temps would have gone below 72 degrees in my closet. One guy told me he still feeds his corns, but cools them to a similiar temp (he never uses supp heat and just let's the snakes get room temp as his cooling). So I was thinking about doing the same. If this is too low, then I'll nix that idea.

Thanks again.

[marisa]

I would just go the simple way. No cooling, no changes.

When you start adding more variables, you start adding more risks and chance of problems.

If you find for some reason your corns will not mate this coming spring, then maybe next year try cooling. But I would just start putting them together in early march until you see a few matings. You'll know if the female is ready because she will stretch out and allow the male to "touch" her and climb over her back....my female gets very nasty when she is not in the mood and she whips around, tail rattles etc to tell the male to leave her alone. When she is ready, I usually see her straighten herself out within 15-20 minutes, most of the time its faster though.

Also sometimes when my female is being nasty about it, I once in awhile leave them together anyways and his persistance eventually wins her over. LOL

Marisa

[Tigergenesis]

Sounds like a plan! How many times should I put them together? If I see them in the act is that good enough or should I put them together some more times just to be sure?

Any tips/advice on removing and incubating the eggs? and what to use as an incubator? Seems I'm getting some good tips that aren't in the books, caresheets I've been reading.

Thanks!

[marisa]

I put mine together for three successful matings so far. This year and last. I am sure more wouldn't hurt, and in many cases one mating is all that is needed. So it's up to you. The female will start refusing to breed after a bit though as she will be gravid.

As for tips on incubating the eggs I am only on my second year breeding and incubating, so my experience is just that, just my experience.

But what I did last year was the "warm shelf method" I sat the eggs on vermeculite on a warm shelf on the rack. Temps fluctuated but did not go below 75 or above 85. The eggs took 87 days to hatch!!!

This year I am using a styrofoam cooler. it has two bricks inside and on the bricks the eggs box (shoebox rubbermaid) sits. It has a Ebo Jager submersable (sp) aquarium heater set to 83. This method is working great. Hold humidity, heat and the eggs will hatch much faster at this higher, stable temp.

Marisa

[Tigergenesis]

Wow - thanks again!

I'm wondering if I can do like you did with the cooler, but instead of a cooler just use a sterilite tub (it's actually currently used as a quarantine tub) - still put the eggs in a shoebox, but use a heating pad?

[marisa]

I am sure you could. The reason most use Styro boxes is because they are so insulated, most temp fluctuations are kept to a minimum.

A heat pad might work, but I have never used this method so I am not sure. If you did use a pad, a thermastat would be mandatory as it is with the aquarium heater.

Marisa

[Tigergenesis]

One final (for now, LOL) 'THANK YOU!'

[Invictus]

I would just like to also add that my Charcoal male bred my Miami female with no cooling, and she laid 11 good eggs and 1 slug. Not bad for her first clutch though! The eggs are due to hatch in a couple of weeks.

[Tigergenesis]

Congrats! I don't see many people post pics of Miami's - are they not that popular?