Boa keepers in the know, please read and give opinions

[daver676]

I would like people who know BCIs and BCCs to read and comment on the following information. I just want to know what you think:


One of the most valuable pieces of information on this issue is the fact that the keeper of a Boa constrictor has excellent means of directing the size of his/her boa according to his/her desire.

The key factor for this is the feeding schedule:

Please take note that adult rabbits or guinea pigs are no suitable boa food! While they may overcome such a large prey item, it is an exertion for the digestive tract and a blow for the system. Fatty liver is frequently diagnosed in animals where such feedings have been applied.

The second side effect of such enormous prey items is the growth boost in the boas. If you stick to rats, baby rabbits or baby guinea pigs, the growth rate of your boa will always be within a reasonable range.

The most significant growth of a boa takes place within its first 4 years of life. If you restrain the snake from feeding too much during this time, you will avoid the risk of getting a boa that you may consider to be too large for keeping it until its demise.

Conservative Feeding

And last but not least, the best news: Every somewhat experienced boa keeper is able to apply a feeding schedule that prevents any further significant growth in adult boas.

This means that when your adult boa has reached 6 ft in length and weighs 9 pounds (just an example), you can feed it in a way that the animal will more or less remain at this size and weight. This does not harm the animal at all. To the contrary, such animals will be more healthy and fertile than those fat truck tires that are frequently found in the terrariums of breeders who think that feeding an adult rabbit every two weeks is necessary to be successful in breeding boas.

Copied from http://www.boa-constrictors.com/com/com.html

Scroll down to the bottom of the page.

[Invictus]

Want my personal opinion? Generally, I won't even buy a boa that came from a 6' mother. A boa is a LARGE constrictor, and should be allowed to hit its full growth potential. Why a keeper would want to stunt a boa's growth is beyond me. I guarantee you a 7' male and and 10' female will produce a hell of a lot more, and a hell of a lot healtheir babies than a 6' mom and a 5' dad.

[marisa]

Yeah but if genetically the parents came from a large line, and they were just fed in a way to keep them smaller, that should have no effect genetically on the babies to be larger like the grandparents say. Right?

Ahhh genetics confuse me.

Marisa

[daver676]

Marisa,

I don't want this tread to get into a debate about genetics. I just want opinions on the first post. :)

[Cruciform]

You didn't define what kind of opinions you wanted, so now they are replying in freeform :)

[TheRedDragon]

Originally posted by Invictus
A boa is a LARGE constrictor, and should be allowed to hit its full growth potential. Why a keeper would want to stunt a boa's growth is beyond me.

Here here. I agree with that 100%.

[marisa]

Invictus' post, and then my post are DIRECTLY related to your post Daver.

I am not sure what you want us to discuss? But generally one would assume this entire website is against withholding food to a certain extent. While under and over feeding are a point of debate.... No one here wants to harm animals, so I am not sure what you are expecting.

You got my opinion. If some fool underfeeds (or overfeeds which seems to happen as often) his boa, do I have to worry about the offspring being as small as underfeeding shouldn't matter if genetically the boa comes from a large line.

Marisa

[daver676]

Originally posted by Cruciform
You didn't define what kind of opinions you wanted, so now they are replying in freeform :)

LOL! Well then.....

I just thought it was not a good thing to control a snake's size by underfeeding it. To me, reading something like the above is also like saying that a snake will only get as big as it's enclosure will allow.

[Invictus]

No, it's true... underfeeding a snake will definitely stunt its growth and I agree... this should not be done under any circumstances. If a 9' boa constrictor is "too big", get a hog isle boa.

[daver676]

Well another method to my madness with this thread was to test the accuracy of this data with keepers of boas. I have been refered to this site (www.boa-constrictors.com) on several occassions by members of THIS site when searching for info on boas.

[Scales Zoo]

I'm still waiting for someone to prove to me that boas start growing better when given large rabbits, as opposed to multiple large rats.

I'm not saying they don't, but I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that they do (with our snakes)

Feed a 5' boa 3 or 4 large rats every feeding and you can see the thing grow. That same boa could not handle a 4 lb rabbit - because rabbits are larger / lb than rats are.

Ryan

[Invictus]

Since I *stopped* feeding rabbits and switched all of my BCIs over to rats, I have noticed the most growth by far. My one year and half old has grown a ridiculous amount since being switched over to rats. So to suggest they grow better with rabbits, I doubt it very highly. The rats definitely seem to be doing way more good in my collection.

[Cruciform]

Wouldn't rats be more efficient to digest due to surface area relative to size?

The animal would then have to expend less energy in digesting, and more to growing :)

[Jeff_Favelle]

Generally, I won't even buy a boa that came from a 6' mother. A boa is a LARGE constrictor, and should be allowed to hit its full growth potential.

??? LOL! How exactly does this affect the genetics of the babies? If I chop the back legs off of my female monitors, will all their babies by 2-legged freaks?


LOL!

And there are MANY locale forms of Bci on the mainland that don't get large. Mexicans aren't huge by nature. I've had some (back in the day) that would be on MY feeding schedule, which everyone knows is EXCESSIVE, and they maxed out at 7 feet after 5 years. Genetics is genetics. You can't change them. Doesn't mean its always a runt. Not at all.

[Invictus]

I know it's not *always* a runt Jeff, but I prefer not to take my chances. There are too many runt breedings happening in my opinion, and granted - some runts can grow to be huge if fed right, but some just end up taking after their runt parents, no matter what.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Runted parents do not produce runted offspring. They just produce LESS normally-sized babies. Whenever someone posts a pic of their HUGE Ball Python, do they say "oh wow, I'm going to get HUGE eggs!!"?? LOL! No, they are excited about getting MORE eggs. Size is determinate. Its not controlled by the status of the parents, UNLESS they are genetically small to begin with. If so, then that is not bad, as that is their GENES. Nothign wrong with smaller locales of boas.

This is why you see monster females giving birth to 50 or 60 babies, not 10 3-foot monster babies!


LOL!

[JDouglas]

Great topic guys!

[JaredAren]

I think that a happy medium is best for feeding. Try to keep the boa from getting huge too early but feed it enough that it acheives "normal" adult size by its fourth birthday.

Now who is to say what "normal adult size" is? In the wild boas are much smaller than they are in captivity but they still have very healthy immune systems and they still reproduce very well. To me "normal adult size" is a matter of opinion.

In my opinion a 6 ft BCI is about just right so I feed with the intention of trying to get the boa this size by its fourth birthday. Then the boa goes on a maintenance diet.

[Piers]

Iv'e found that boas will get as big as they will get. If you power feed they just get there faster. As long as you don't "starve" the animal it will keep growing most of its life.
Boas will get 7-8 feet fairly fast but the next foot or two can take much longer. A 7 foot boa at five years can get 9+feet but it might take another 5+ years to put the extra size on.
Piers

[daver676]

Originally posted by Piers
Iv'e found that boas will get as big as they will get. If you power feed they just get there faster. As long as you don't "starve" the animal it will keep growing most of its life.
Boas will get 7-8 feet fairly fast but the next foot or two can take much longer. A 7 foot boa at five years can get 9+feet but it might take another 5+ years to put the extra size on.
Piers

But what I believe this site is saying (http://www.boa-constrictors.com/com/com.html)
is that you can keep a snake at any size you wish (whether it be 2 feet or 8) by essentially starving it by "limiting" it's feeding schedule. I think it is downright wrong, not to mention cruel. But I totally agree with a maintenence diet once the snake has reached it's full grown size.

[nicola_boulton]

i totally agree with daver676 it is very cruel to stunt growth, because all this is doing is giving the snake only enought energy to live rather than to grow. This means the boa would be less lively and go about the things boas would usually do when they are well fed?
Nicola

[Invictus]

Jeff, you can deny it all you want, but it does happen. Several times I've emailed people from both this and other forums who have BCI for sale, and I find out it's a 6' female or a 4.5' male or some other dwarfed size, and I ask how big the parents were. Gee, wouldn't ya know it...half the time, they were tiny too.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Jeff, you can deny it all you want, but it does happen. Several times I've emailed people from both this and other forums who have BCI for sale, and I find out it's a 6' female or a 4.5' male or some other dwarfed size, and I ask how big the parents were. Gee, wouldn't ya know it...half the time, they were tiny too.

Then that's most likely genetics, caused by the locale, or simply uniqueness of THAT boa. Its NOT that the parents were runted and somehow they mutated their chromosomes/gametes and passed it on to the babies. LOL!

[hip]

I see the debates are no less heated then they were in the past! Wow sure miss a whole lot when you are busy. I would stand to agree with Jeffer on his statements. I would also add there has been so much inbreeding and local crosses in the past (to gain favourable colors patterns ect) that it is hard to make a truly rock solid assumption of how big a Bci will get in different feeding situations. Genetics are always the key to any size questions. So the mother could be 9 feet and the father could be 5 feet and all the offspring could be monsters in adult life or small or there could be a blend of both you just never know what you are gonna get (kind of like that forest gump thing) I won't even get into feeding schedules prey size and the like.


Hip

[Matt_K]

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
??? LOL! How exactly does this affect the genetics of the babies? If I chop the back legs off of my female monitors, will all their babies by 2-legged freaks?


Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
This is why you see monster females giving birth to 50 or 60 babies, not 10 3-foot monster babies!


LOL!


LMFAO, funniest replies ever!!

[ReptiliansDOTca]

Jeff, you can deny it all you want, but it does happen. Several times I've emailed people from both this and other forums who have BCI for sale, and I find out it's a 6' female or a 4.5' male or some other dwarfed size, and I ask how big the parents were. Gee, wouldn't ya know it...half the time, they were tiny too.

Wouldn't these sizes be age dependant as well? I mean, just because they are one size, at one particular point in time, it does not meant they are not growing anymore.

And to try to set a set size for "BCI" is not only wrong, but ridiculous. There are just too many different locales, which reach different potential sizes, which have been cross bred too many times. And to determine the quality of a boa because it is "only six feet" is just wrong in my opinion. When I see a boa that is six feet in the first year, I have to ask myself - what in the world has it been fed?

[V.hb]

I would say a "full grown" 6.5 foot female boa is most likely a sub species, or a cross between other locals, not a pure BCI.. And even if its been underfed, and hasnt hit its full potential before birthing, I really doubt babies will be stunted as well if they're fed and kept properly... just my opinion.

[daver676]

I can see where both Invictus and Jeff are coming from.

On one hand, when you're looking into buying a boa, then you noticed the parents are of sub-standard size, then you really don't know what causes it, because you don't know the history of the parents. Perhaps it's genetic, or perhaps the parents are stunted. You wouldn't want to really take a chance either way. If the size IS genetic, then you may end up with a smaller boa (a chance I wouldn't take). Then again if it's not genetic, then I don't see why the offspring wouldn't become full size unless they arn't fed properly as well. Did you get all that? LOL!

[Invictus]

Saying that the size of the parents has nothing to do with how big a boa can get is utterly foolish. If that was the case, explain this:

I have a 1.5 year old MALE boa that was the product of a 10+ foot female and an 8' male. He is currently almost 5 feet long, and so thick I can't get my hand around his thickest part. He is on the same feeding schedule and even the same relative prey size (large rats) as a female BCI I got that is the same size as he is, and she's not only the larger gender, but is a full year older! If the size of the parents has nothing to do with growth, she should be leaps and bounds ahead of the male in size, and all of my boas of the same age would be the same size... but they are NOT.

[MormonBoa]

"And to determine the quality of a boa because it is "only six feet" is just wrong in my opinion. When I see a boa that is six feet in the first year, I have to ask myself - what in the world has it been fed?"

I agree. Any boa that is six feet in its first year is overfed will probably die within the first 6 years of its life. And to Hit more directly at the purpose of the first post, with the rabbit-rat deal, rats are much more healthier for the boas. They have a higher muscle to fat ratio that rabbits, and they have denser bones, neccesary for a boas growth. Rabbits are very fatty and not as healthy. When feeding rabbits, you must feed very sparingly, as in once a month, and i would only recomend doing this for when you are fattening up a female for breeding, or have a 7-10 foot snake. and even then you need to even out the feedings with some jumbo rats every once in a while.

[Jeff_Favelle]

I never said that the size of a boa's parents has nothing to do with the size it will get. Not once.

[quote]I would say a "full grown" 6.5 foot female boa is most likely a sub species, or a cross between other locals, not a pure BCI.. [/i]

Hog Island Boas are "pure" Bci.

[Zoe]

I was always under the assumption that no matter how much you fed a snake, it would reach it's potential size, but in a different amount of time. As in, if you feed a boa that can hit 9ft very sparingly, it will eventually hit 9 feet, but be relatively thin. If you powerfeed a boa that will probably only hit 6ft (say, a hogg isle cross), it will never reach 10ft, it will just get to be 6ft very fast, and be very fat.

And yes, a snake's lines can affect the size of the baby. If the entire line is small, then the baby will probably end up small too. But if a normal sized snake gives birth to a runt, or a snake that is underfed, it won't have anything to do with the size of the babies that snake has.

I would say a "full grown" 6.5 foot female boa is most likely a sub species, or a cross between other locals, not a pure BCI
They are all subspecies, and every ssp is a 'pure BCI'. just depends which.

[Piers]

when dealing with genetic people often overlook the genetics of the grandparents. some genetics skip a generation or two.
Since most of use never get to see the grandparents of the animals we buy, how can we know what we are truely getting.
Piers