nile monitor

[derek]

hi all. i am considering getting a wardrobe and putting a sheet of glass for the front and putting a nile monitor in there. is there any thing i should know before i do this? does anyone have any good (or bad) experinces with nile monitors. is there another monitor lizard that you would recommend for a first time monitor keeper? (i currently have 5 leopard geckos,uromastyx,corn snake and a ball python) thanks for your time and why would you recommend this type ?

[Linds]

The caging idea is a good one, but not for a Nile monitor. They need very spacious enclosures (er even a room of its own...lol :p). Niles are poorly suited to the pet trade, and I hate seeing them available, especially at such a low price. They are large, agressive animals that very, very few keepers can successfully keep. I could go on a rant about these guys, but its late so here is an excellent page on them: http://proexotics.com/FAQ_answers_Why_dont_you_sell_Niles.html

If you want a *big* lizard I would recommend going for a Water monitor instead. They get *huge* but are much more agreeable in temperament and can make very pleasing captives if their needs are met :) My favourites are the blackthroat monitors by far. They are great if you can provide the necessary space. Same with white throat monitors. But all of the above mentioned to require ALOT of space. Great beginner monitors that dont reach the massive size are Ackies. Usually max out about 24" and are great for both experienced and beginner monitor keepers :) Good luck with your decision! ;)

[NiagaraReptiles]

I agree with Linds, Ackies are by far the best choice for a 'first' Varanid.
See my reply on ************* for more info on Niles.

.......and just to elaborate a little on Linds' comments, all of the species she's mentioned attain lengths of 5'+ and can be very difficult and expensive to provide for in captivity.

JonK

[Dom]

I totally agree with you guys .. U should really give it lost of though before jumping in with the larger monitors.. Don't get me wrong they are amazing to work with but the size potential is what draws me away from them ..

As for the dwarfs .. If u can afford them, I'd say go for that in a second .. I wish i could! I know Niagra Reptiles have got some amazing ones! I wish I was rich!

Might I suggest also the ever too popular savanahs.. they make excelent first monitos are extremelly easy to find and have a size pottential of about 4 feet max .. great temperment as well (cb that is)

If u are intersted, I may have a savanah and a water for sale ..

let us know on what u decide

[Dragoon]

Hello!
I also posted my story and a long reply on the "other" forum.
I wish you would be more specific as to what you want in a varanid.
Do you wish a breeding project? Something large? Something "friendly" Something colorful, a good display animal, something not too big? something not expensive?

Please do a lot of reading before getting one. And it always helps to talk to someone who has that particular animal to see what its like as a pet. Better yet if you can visit the animal.

I have a nile. He just loves eating new people. Come on over. :eb:

[hydrosaurus]

Nile monitors are not that bad...... they have a bad reputation as most people who attempt to keep them have no idea what they are doing... if you truely want a nile, i still recommend buying either a savannah, or a water monitor to get use to the size, mass and strength of a larger monitor.
and Linds.... I think its better off someone who is planning on purchasing goods to construct an enclosure for their nile is a better suited owner than a pet store the nile is sitting in.

just because certain people boycot them doesnt mean idiots wont buy them.
i find niles the most fascinating monitor (by far) they are probably the most intellegent of all of the monitors ive dealt with, and the most defiant. they will stand up to you, and will be territorial.
buying an ackie in my opinion doesnt open you to a life of larger monitors..... its like buying a beardie with a fork tongue. they look pretty but they are a gem in a keepers collection, not really a center piece.

[Dom]

I find it very avkward that Niles have a worst reputation than the waters. I have worked with many Niles and out of all the ones I have worked with, only one of them was vicious, a 6+ feet Ornate Nile weighing at 80+ pounds - I AM NOT KIDDING ON WEIGHT and size - he is a genetic anomalie.

But when it comes to Water monitors, I have work with so many nasty ones that I tend to think that they should be the one to have the bad reputation instead of a good one. Don't get me wrong, I have seen many awesome puppy tamed waters but many more nasty ones!

MAhh - just my though on the large monitors!

And Hydrosaurus (whats ure real name?) I feel you for the coment on Ackies .. there real little beauties but u have not exeperience what a monitor is until u have worked with the big ones!

:)

[Linds]

Hydrosaurus,
I am saying that they don't belong in pet stores, and by placing them in pet stores they are open to people not knowing what they are getting into. It is the same story as iguanas and sulcatas. These animals are constantly being mistreated, miscared for, and dumped off because animals in pet stores are often purchased on a whim and the eprson doesnt know what they are getting into. These animals are NOT pets, therefore they are ill-suited to stores and the pet trade. Very few people can successfully keep a nile. People don't think that these animals will require a room-sized enclosure as adults, and I have never even heard stories of tame niles before...

[Dom]

Very well said Linds ..

As I have said, out of the 4 niles i have worked with, 3 are puppy tamed .. I imagine like any other animas some are good and some are bad.. Maybe we just got lucky.

[NiagaraReptiles]

Husbandry has a direct effect on behavior/temperment with monitors. I would be willing to wager that I could "tame" (I really don't like using that word when talking monitors) any monitor, regardless of how mean they are. If you don't provide them with adequate temperature variants, for an example, their metabolizm slows down, thus you get a slower, "calmer" animal. This is also why we see so many stunted and obese monitors in captivity. they are kept under inadequate conditions and fed more than they can metabolize.

I am not saying that this is the case with every "tame" monitor that has a reputation for being aggressive, but I have found it to be the cause in many circumstances that I have come across.

I agree with Linds as well. Many of the larger species should not be as readily available as they are. In more cases than not these animals are bought in ignorance of what they grow to be and are either mistreated (often unknowingly) or discarded.

This is one of the main reason's I push Ackies as being a great starter Varanid. They stay small and are much easier to provide for. They also give a glimpse of what monitors can/should eat/act like under appropriate conditions.

There was a comment made about everyone not having $400+ to shell out on a monitor. If this is the case, SURELY a larger monitor should not be purchased as they will far outweigh the initial cost of an Ackie just in feeding, let alone proper housing.

Just my thoughts,

[hydrosaurus]

Nah honestly... for every monitor enclosure ive made ive paid maximum of 150 dollars for a double decker 8X4 melamime cage and materials.

the monitors are cheap..... espeacially savannahs, and food is cheap too. i find mice cheaper than insects to purchase.
its just a personal opinion.
ackies are expensive....... on top of the fact youd have to buy a tank, and tanks cost alot. and if you dont buy a tank you custom make an enclosure which also costs money.

[NiagaraReptiles]

You're right, tanks are expensive (assuming you meant aquariums). Personally I don't like using aquariums for Varanids. I've tried it, and it just makes things more difficult, especially with insecure animals.

That is a pretty cheap price if you can build cages that size for that amount of money. So why would you think buiilding a small cage would be more expensive? :) Sure there are ways to make thinkgs more expensive (I seem to be talented at that), but it doesn't have to cost a lot.

I think that we are both biased and that is really all that we are 'arguing' :D

I'm going to look at your <i>V. doreanus</i> pics now.....

[hydrosaurus]

ya i do like ackies dont get me wrong.... i just found it easier to get a savannah.....ackies are not as common, and ahealthy savannah is a great pet.

[hydrosaurus]

I hope i didnt offend you or anything.

was just trying to get apoint accross that ackies cost alot espeacially if you decide monitors are not for you...
i may be emailing you soon about purchasing one of your pairs if you still have them...

[NiagaraReptiles]

My concern with Sav's being so readily available and inexpensive is that there really is a lot of bad information out there on them. I think it is absolutely cruel to not give these monitors what they need to be monitors. How many situations have you seen that involve astroturf, or pine shavings, etc.....Sav's don't recognize these things at all. What they want is a burrow to call home. They spend a great deal of thier life underground in burrows, retaining moisture and avoiding the extreme heat. They come out when they need the heat, absorb it very quickly, and back underground they go.

Or how about "My Sav just LOVES to soak in his water dish".......Sav's rarely ever have the opportunity to even catch a glimpse of standing water in the wild (in most areas). They get and retain moisture from their food and thier burrows.

Sorry about long winded reply here. I just wanted to give examples and back up what I'm saying. It's amazing how much bad information is out there. And it's not just with Sav's, it's with almost any Varanid. Ackies ahve been the gateway to modern Varanid husbandry. They are small enough that they are easy to provide for, and to give them what they need to be monitors.

No worries, I don't get offended very easily through text. I hope that I didn't come across negatively through my posts towards you either.

If you are interested in some ackies, give me a shout. I do still have 2 pairs available, but I'm not sure for how long. I can also take pics of both pairs should you wish to see them. The older pair was a hold back, cream of the crop.....but I've since come to my senses and decided I don't need to keep more Yellow ackies (I'm running out of space :))

[lance]

i once wanted to get a nile
the pet store told me it being an ornate that it would remain small and managble
well after going to another site and checking thier monitor forums and asking lots of questions I found out otherwise
and I decided to stick to my beardies and leo's for now
not saying don't get a nile just saying check them and thier needs out first because at an adult size they need a hell of alot off room and food
i've heard the good and the bad sides of thier temperment and even the one's that had "nice" niles said they were'nt that common and do you really want an 6" 80lbs mean aggressive reptile on you're hands
this is just my oppinion youre free to make up youre own mind and i'm not trying to downsize what anyone else here is saying

[Dom]

JonK,

I gotta tell you, Your post are really good and very interesting! Its good to have someone put the right information out there.

As for the Savanah's, I completly agree with you. Their husbandry on the web is completly wrong. I have just finished building a new cage for my Sav's.. (giving it 2 weeks for the varathane smell to die off completly) and as soon as it is ready, I intend on creating burrows for them mainly with dirt and sand and lots and lots of rocks .. I will try to replicate as much as I can their natural habitat although it is quite hard for such large monitors.. my cage size is 6wide 4 deep and 2 high.. I think its got lots of potential..

If u have any suggestions at all please let me know .. I am still debating on heatting .. Probably 3 large heat pads on one end with a top heater and that side and a small heat pad on the other extremety .. not too sure though..

As for the water bowl .. even though technically - I could put a water bowl one day a week I find having one in there all the time convinient .. they use it as there washroom - easy to clean.

I valu you oppinion .. please feel free to critizize my plans and let me know what u think would be best for them..

Thanks JonK

[Dom]

More on heating - I am aiming for a HUGE gradient difference .. with my high end heat source very very high .. at least in the 100 and low end in the high 60's to low 70's ..

Let me know what u think ..

[NiagaraReptiles]

Hey Dom,

You cage plans sound ok with the exception of one thing......let your monitors create the burrows, it's what they do best. Altimately several feet of substrate would be the best for them, and they will use it, but it can be difficult to provide that in a home. I wouldn't suggest less than 18 inches of dirt for them. This still gives the the opportunity to dig and burrow, and should be able to provide them with the security they need. Keep in mind that your substrate will always have to be moist enough to hold a burrow or it is useless to the monitor. This can be easily controlled by the ammount of ventalation there is on the enclosure. Sceen, mesh and such are very bad for use in Varanid cages. in a cage the size of the one you mentioned I would install 2, maybe 3 8-10 inch adjustable vents (all in a row at the cool end). I say adjustabel because at different times of year you may want more or less ventalation.

I would also suggest avoiding the use of rocks in the enclosure. I can think of a few situations where people have lost thier monitors due to a rock collapsing on them. Just use the deepest amount of dirt that you can and you can use logs/corkbark/wooden strucktures for obsticles on the suface for them to hid under, and hunt in, etc. Unfortunately it sounds as though you designed your enclosure withough considering the burrowing factor. Hopefully it will work out.

As for heating, though Sav's can likely tolerate temps in the 60's, you avoid any unforseen problems by raising that up a little (around 75°F-80°F for a low temp is good). For the heat source, Personally I think heat pads are next to useless with monitors. This more from the monitors perspective. It's in the wild, it's underground in it's burrow (where they spend most of thier life) and it decides it wants to heat up (for whatever reason). What do you think it's going to do? It's not going to look for a warmer burrow, it's going to go up to the surface where the sun is shining down, make sense?

I use heat lamps for all my Varanids (simple flood lights from the hardware store), nothing more, nothing less. For an animal the size of a Sav I'd suggest a bank of 2 or 3 heat lamps in one spot. The goal here is to provide a basking spot larger than the monitor so it can evenly heat it's entire body, and also if one bulb burns out and you're not around to notice it, they stil have a source of heat. If you have an intense hot spot that is only a small protion of the size of the animal, it will heat him unevenly and this is when burns occur. Reptiles bask to increase thier core temperature (for various reasons). if you have a realy hot basking spot that is concentrated on a small area of the animal, it will take longer to raise it's core temp, but it's skin will be burning. I hope that made sense to you readers :)

A basking spot for any monitor should be a minimum of 130°F, though I find that 140°F-150°F seems to be the most effective. My monitors have the same choices every hour of every day. I let them do what they want to do when they want to do it. It is very difficult to know what they need (specifically) and when they need it, so i feel that forcing things on them is only a recipe for disaster.

Ok, I think I got a little carried away again, but oh well :) I'll leave it at that for now and if you have any other questions, I'd be happy to offer my opinion/experiences.

Best wishes,

[Dom]

Really interesting post! Thanks so much for all the advise ..


I had in mind the whole borowing part when i built the cage! i will be able to give them a good 18 inches of dirt at places in the tank..

You really have gotten my way of thinking a bit different for their cage conception .. thanks man!


If I have any other questions, i will pass them you way .. Again thanks so much for the info - I trully aprreciate the help and you time for the post!

Take care
Dom

[NiagaraReptiles]

holy crap I wrote a lot!

I didn't look at it until now :).....you are very welcome Dom, and I hope that I made you think a little. It's that 'new' angle on monitor husbandry that has given me the success that I have had, and I am still learning. It's definately the reason why monitors are being bred more often now than they ever have been before.

Best wishes with everything,

[rustysreptiles]

I happen to think (my own opinion, I hope not to affend anyone) That the sale of nile monitors turns into more niles into rescue. I think that if you are to buy a nile you should have to have a professional handler tech you about there care (and conservation). But the pet trade is and probably always be the pet trade.
I do think that they make great pets as long as they are givin the right care. (along with all monitors)