Roundup Wrap-up (Dialup Warning)

[BWSmith]

Sorry if some of this repetative, but I c/p-ed it from another post.



The final total of snakes brought in this year was 348. We were able to save 28! Given the box full of dead ones, I figure that about 10% were saved! That is not bad. We got 12 baby Eastern Diamondbacks, 12 Easterns between 2'-4', one LARGE adult female, 1 yearling Canebrake Rattlesnake, and 2 adult Canebrake Rattlesnakes. We got just about every single one he would let go. It took some work to even ONE of the adults.

THis event was larger than I could have possibly imagined! One of the coordinators gave me an estimate of 20,000 people!!!!!! At $5 a head, that adds up quickly. Not to mention over 100 vendor booths.

When I took this, we were not even withing sight of the roundup!
http://redtailboa.net/gallery/data/d3d9446802a44259755d38e6d163e820/686_p13184.jpg



It was a sea of cars! The pictures do not do it justice. I had to take 3 or 4 pictures just to get them all in! Here is one of them.
http://redtailboa.net/gallery/data/d3d9446802a44259755d38e6d163e820/686_p13185.jpg



And a sea of people. This was toward the end of the day and only showing a small portion of the grounds! i could not have imagined what we were up against.
http://redtailboa.net/gallery/data/d3d9446802a44259755d38e6d163e820/686_p13183.jpg



The Rattlesnake Pavilion from the backside
http://redtailboa.net/gallery/data/d3d9446802a44259755d38e6d163e820/686_p13178.jpg



And plenty of Roundup gear. This guy was nice enough to hold up the Children's shirt
http://redtailboa.net/gallery/data/d3d9446802a44259755d38e6d163e820/686_p13187.jpg




Of course, the Rattlesnakes are not the ONLY draw :lol: :lol: :lol:
http://redtailboa.net/gallery/data/d3d9446802a44259755d38e6d163e820/686_p13195.jpg




A couple of the snake pens
http://redtailboa.net/gallery/data/d3d9446802a44259755d38e6d163e820/686_p13179.jpg



After glad handing for a while, we talked out way into the holding area for better pics.
http://redtailboa.net/gallery/data/d3d9446802a44259755d38e6d163e820/686_p13180.jpg
http://redtailboa.net/gallery/data/d3d9446802a44259755d38e6d163e820/686_p13181.jpg

And of course, they were milking snakes for the croud (they said the venom was for research :lol: :lol: ) This shot was taken right before this guy turned around and almost stabbed me in the head with a 5' Diamondback!!!!!!!! :shock: :shock: :evil: :evil:
http://redtailboa.net/gallery/data/d3d9446802a44259755d38e6d163e820/686_p13177.jpg




And of course, they had all the Roundup Queens. Gee, how about you get them WAY too close and NOT look at the sankes freaking head!!!!
http://redtailboa.net/gallery/data/d3d9446802a44259755d38e6d163e820/686_p13169.jpg
http://redtailboa.net/gallery/data/d3d9446802a44259755d38e6d163e820/686_p13170.jpg
http://redtailboa.net/gallery/data/d3d9446802a44259755d38e6d163e820/686_p13168.jpg
http://redtailboa.net/gallery/data/d3d9446802a44259755d38e6d163e820/686_p13182.jpg




And of course, there were several booths selling snake items.
http://redtailboa.net/gallery/data/d3d9446802a44259755d38e6d163e820/686_p13194.jpg
http://redtailboa.net/gallery/data/d3d9446802a44259755d38e6d163e820/686_p13192.jpg
http://redtailboa.net/gallery/data/d3d9446802a44259755d38e6d163e820/686_p13193.jpg


http://redtailboa.net/gallery/data/d3d9446802a44259755d38e6d163e820/686_p13191.jpg

http://redtailboa.net/gallery/data/d3d9446802a44259755d38e6d163e820/686_p13172.jpg

http://redtailboa.net/gallery/data/d3d9446802a44259755d38e6d163e820/686_p13173.jpg

http://redtailboa.net/gallery/data/d3d9446802a44259755d38e6d163e820/686_p13175.jpg

http://redtailboa.net/gallery/data/d3d9446802a44259755d38e6d163e820/686_p13174.jpg




And of the saddest things. This kid's mom let me take his picture. A new generation is well on its way :cry:
http://redtailboa.net/gallery/data/d3d9446802a44259755d38e6d163e820/686_p13176.jpg



But the transaction went very smoothly. The snakes ran from $20-$50 depending on size. But I truly think that we got ALL that he would allow us. 10% is not bad for a weekend. Now comes the hard part, getting them healthy and feeding. Pics of the individuals will come soon, but for now, here is one of the little guys.

[tHeGiNo]

I don't get it, 348 snakes ripped from the wild? Why? This must do a big toll on the environment, that is a lot of snakes!

[BWSmith]

Roundups in general began when areas were first settled (usually out West) where the rattlesnake populations were very high. They felt that they were needed to lessen human fatalities. But this was only the 37th Roundup for Claxton, GA. I find it hard to believe that population control was an issue in 1967.

Yes, they were taken from the wild. And yes, it takes a terrible toll. So bad in fact, that the populations in Georgia are so thin that over half of them came from Alabama. You also have to look at the sex ratio. we rescued 28. 20 were female. Any Southern field herper knows that 90% of the snakes you catch are males. That says 2 things. 1. A large percentage of potential breeder females are gone. 2. They are still gassing Gopher Tortoise holes to drive them out (even though it is illegal).

If you think 348 is bad, look up how many THOUSANDS are killed at the Sweetwater, Texas Roundup each year.

[tHeGiNo]

And, these things are legal? Whats up with that?

[tHeGiNo]

Also, if these things are legal, why don't we start a "moron roundup" and round up all the people catching all these innocent snakes, and do as we please with them. Maybe being isolated from that kind of thing, I cannot come to terms with it, or understand the mentality whatsoever.

[BWSmith]

By the way. I tried to feed 6 tonight and 2 ate for me :D

[tHeGiNo]

I forgot to mention BW, I would like to congratulate and commend you for your effots. People such as yourself are slowly making this place a little better, for the animals.

[BWSmith]

Thanks. But we just made the trip. We had alot of donations for the rescue that made it possible to save that many.

[noncents]

GREAT JOB with the pics, the story and the snakes! From what I understand, you had to buy them from these people in order to save their lives, right? I think you did a GREAT job, but how sad is it that we're reduced to essentially paying a RANSOM to these idiots in order to buy back something that they stole from the wild in the first place?! Is there a website set up for donations?

[BWSmith]

"ransom" What a GREAT description.

THe site I set up is at www.reptileeducation.com/Roundup.htm
I included pics from the Sweetwater Roundup (they still actually have a "killing Floor"!)

[kevyn]

God those things make me sick. The senseless killing of anything sickens me. What a waste. To me roundups are further expressions of mans arrogance, and disrespect for the world around us. So many of us think that human life is all that matters. What a load...

Great work on the rescues. I'm curious how you guys acomplished this? What was the general attitude towards you guys from the participants?

Wish there were more like you guys.

[Matt_K]

Good on you Brian, your efforts have obviously not gone un-noticed, you're truely an asset to this community as well as the hobby in a whole!!

[Sunrunner]

Originally posted by Matt_K
Good on you Brian, your efforts have obviously not gone un-noticed, you're truely an asset to this community as well as the hobby in a whole!!
After looking at those pic's the best I can put together in words is I whole heartly agree!
Thanks,
Kim

[C.m.pyrrhus]

I have to add my quick 2 cents in as well.

Great job! An effert like this is not simple by any means, even as you put it you were "up against a lot." To say the least it was something not many folks can deal with.

I deal with minor dealings 'kinda' like this in Arizona when it comes to venomous species and trying to teach a bit of "snake truth" while trying to save something that is solely looked upon as evil. Not an easy task to undergo. Facing the "enemy" like you did is something that takes a lot of hard work and a lot of holding back of personal feelings...:).

Your task was much more of an undertaking and is great to see that you did a such a good job as you did...hats off to your work!!! Some good news came shining through what I feel is a horrible part of our society and its negative feelings on such an understood creature.

[MsTT]

OK, I'm going to go vomit now. Those pictures are sickening.

BW, if you need any medication for these guys let me know. I might recommend a prophylactic course of antibiotics (probably Ceftaz) as well as the usual antiparasiticals. There will be a line to walk between not stressing them and medicating/assist feeding them, and it's not always an easy one to judge.

You probably won't be able to save the ones that have been gassed out of gopher tortoise holes, not if they got too much exposure to the fumes. They may look fine, but they will drop dead in a few weeks with no apparent symptoms. Postmortem will show lung damage and may look visually a lot like paramyxo, so don't panic too quickly if gas fumes are a suspect.

[SerpentLust]

Oh wow, I'm utterly speechless. Good job, I can't believe how many females there were. And the jewelry and snake heads, it just makes me sick...I didn't think that was even legal!

[BWSmith]

Thanks everyone. UnBOAlievable went with me and contributed alot his time and money as well.

I am fortunate to have a GREAT herp vet that deal with venomous. He is making a house call on Sunday. 7 of them were nice enough to leave me fecal samples. ;) They all got soaked in Pedialite when they got here. The only real contact they have had this week was tubing them to get a good look for physical damage (a couple wounded vents and some scale rot) and sexed out. Each one is separated into individual Rubbermades on shop towels, with each numbered, sexed and nots attached. Just the logistics of vet care for that many animals at once is a little staggering.



PS. The last pic is the biggest heartbreaker to me.

[snakeskin]

incredible....

like asked before, how was the general attituse of the spectators and organisation of the round up towards you guys..

time for a redneck roundup I say :p

[BoidKeeper]

I'm so up set by this and seal hunts I don't even know where to start. At least the seal industry is an industry, this is just a slaughter.
It makes me sick.
Trevor

[Vengeance]

I don't get how this is legal? Is it legeal? I have a hard time beliving that it is.........

[BWSmith]

Sorry. We were generally overlooked by spectators. i only made a few passing comments to spectators when I heard things i could not let go. Most of the time was dealing with the coordinators and the butcher. They knew why I was there and they also knew that we had to pretty much grin and bear it or else we would leave with nothing. The hardest part is that the coordinators and the butcher are actually nice guys. Makes it harder to hate the nice guys, even if they are doing what you dispise. I still think I chipped some teeth gritting them so hard trying to put on the happy face and shake hands with so many people doing what i would spend a lifetime fighting. But if we had gone and raised hell and cursed them, none of the snakes would have been saved.

[BWSmith]

Yes it is legal because none of the native GA venomous are protected and are listed as neusance species.

[MsTT]

Warning - what looks like external "scale rot" (necrotizing dermatitis) can also be petechiations from generalized septicaemia. These animals are EXCELLENT candidates for antibiotic support regardless of which condition they have.

[BWSmith]

You are absolutely right Tanyth. My vet had mentioned that. This is why he is coming over rather than me just taking fecals to him. No telling what the poor little guys are toting around. Ya need to move closer ;0

[JD@reptiles]

i have an idea. how about we throw that fat F@$)($@ kid into the rattle snake cage they got there. and than we sneak up behind all the organizers and pin the rattle snakes to their necks :D

[Mustangrde1]

How about this Idea as Brian is to shy to ask for help from friends,,, Next time he goes to one of these events HE POST IT BEFORE TIME and we ban together and help with donations for the rescues. We talk alot about respociblity and deap care for the animals... THIS MAN PUTS HIS MONEY WHERE HIS MOUTH IS. I think that demands our respect and support.

[MsTT]

I'm in for funding and veterinary help if needed. I keep many drugs in stock that are commonly used on rescued snakes, and I will share my supply. My suggestion off the bat is going to be Ceftazidime as a general prophylactic antibiotic that has a 72 hour dosing schedule, is non nephrotoxic and can be quickly administered in an intramuscular injection to the caudal end of a snake. I give a lot of this stuff. I got pretty good at just picking up a snake's tail, pulling it out of the barely cracked cage door and whacking in a fast IM shot without even having to tube. See if your vet agrees. It's our standard protocol on rescued Easterns at the clinic I work with.

What you really need are other local keepers who can take on some of the physical work of managing these specimens. I'm not sure I'd recommend any kind of shipping or long distance transport for these already stressed specimens however. Sorry; I do wish I lived closer.

[MsTT]

Originally posted by BWSmith
You are absolutely right Tanyth. My vet had mentioned that. This is why he is coming over rather than me just taking fecals to him. No telling what the poor little guys are toting around. Ya need to move closer ;0

Okay, but short of postmortem examination there is no reliable way to determine whether external lesions/petechiations on a snake signify necrotizing dermatitis or generalized septicaemia resulting from a massive and systemic infection. Your vet needs to be bringing the microscope, because there ain't no way to tell by looking. Even the 'scope isn't going to help much for differentiating between these two scenarios.

CNS symptoms, general weakness, debilitation and the appearance of dehydration in the presence of adequate assisted fluid intake would point to a systemic cause. Speaking of which hydration is a really crucial issue for patient support, oral/soaking for the animals strong enough to drink, assisted oral for the weaker animals and intracoelomic (sterile hypotonic solution plus Ceftazidime) for the emergency cases.

Regardless of whether a snake has necrotizing bacterial dermatitis or septicaemia, it is a candidate for antibiotic support. The primary differential would be a fungal dermatitis, so theoretically you should be doing a C&S, but based on our practical experience (and the cost of C&S) I'd say go ahead and treat the situation as if it was bacterial since you are quite likely to have opportunistic bacterial overgrowth in any case.

We have a fair bit of clinical experience with this species in case your vet does not, so if you like we can share notes by phone with your vet on the best methods of anesthesia, the typical parasites found in wild Easterns, etc.

[XtremeReptiles]

BWsmith.....I'm abit confused but what do they do with the ones you DIDNT save.....tehy dont finish them off do they?

I wish I coulda been there....would bought as many as I could and released em:)

[BWSmith]

Thanks for all the info TT. I can handle basic vet care on my own (kindof have to learn when working hots), but given the vast array of ailments that could be lurking in these guys, I am leaving it up to the pros. I'll let the vet know your specific comments and recommendations since most of the hots he deals with are Agkistrodon and C horridus. I was hoping you would respond ;) As far as other hot keepers close, not many. Swampy is about 1.5 hours away, but he is scared to drive in the city :D I got one or two an hour away or so. Luckily my wife is getting much more exprerienced.

Xtreme, the remainder were killed for meat, hide, and trinkets. The rescues could not be released unfortunately because of unkown locality and risk of pathogens. I think TT has a great article on release and relocation.

[BWSmith]

I forgot (brain is on overdrive). Thank you all for the kind words and support.

[snakehunter]

DONT I FEEL PROUD TO BE HUMAN! :(

[Gregg M]

Well, you should be proud if you are respectful towards these creatures...... You should not put yourself in the same catagory as the ignorant people that partake in these slaughters....... Tell you what, I am proud to be on the same side as Brian and the others that are against the mutilation and slaughter of these beautiful animals...... You should be proud of any effort made to make this hobby better and to help in the conservation of these creatures....... We are not the same as these ignorant killers......

[snakehunter]

Im with you too, I am totally against this, Im just embarassed that my fellow humans would be so cruel/ignorant/sensless to a creature that would be less harmdull if they would just leave them the F@@@ alone!

[thirdangel]

BW -- Praise God for your efforts. I wonder how Claxton would react to a puppy dog round-up? That would fall under cruelty to animals, but this morbid stupidity is ok!

[shaggybill]

Sorry to bump this post up, but Brian, for real, next time you go to one of these things let us know so we can all pitch in and give you some more money to help save these snakes. I would gladly give some.

[BWSmith]

Thanks. It was posted on several sites and a great deal of donations came in. Unfortunately, there were circumstances that prevented me from posting here until after the event. These circumstances had nothing to do with the site, its policy, its owner or moderators. In fact, they encouraged me to do so, but respected my reasoning against it.

[Beardonicus]

How are they doing, Brian? Have you had any casualties yet? I only wish I could've helped more.

[BWSmith]

Not a ONE!!!!!! :D 9 have eaten (6 were F/T). But they are far from "out of the woods".

[Beardonicus]

Thats awesome man...its definitely a good sign if you ask me. I hope they all continue to progress well. Keep up the good work bro! :)

[shaggybill]

If you dont mind me asking, Brian, how much does it cost to save these snakes? Is it a case where the more money you have, you more you can save, or will they only sell you a certain amount?

I dont know anything about the Claxton roundup. Do they kill the rattlers once they are finished showing them off?

[BWSmith]

Money is a major factor. Luckily we had just enough to get as many as we were allowed. I think we got about EVERY one that he would sell us.

Yes, after the roundup, they go off to be "processed".

[shaggybill]

What makes me really sick is that they have captured 348 live snakes that are going to be killed, (well, all but 28! :) ), but look at all those snakes heads and rattles for sale. The total number of snakes killed has got to be insanely high. These things are rediculous.

Its like thirdangel said. Lets have a stray dog roundup. We capture some before the show and cut off their heads and sell them on wall-mounts in vending booths. And we could hold some more in a couple of pens and then when everyones done looking at them, we could chop off heads in front of everyone. Lets see how the lawmakers feel about that.

[XtremeReptiles]

I think I may start hots in a few years JUST to save the snakes...so sad:( God some people piss me the F$$$ off.

Oh your avatar is freakin SWEET Brian.... haha