Baby Komodo Pic!!!!

[Skink Keeper]

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/2965BABY_KOMODO-med.JPG I took this pic at the Toronto zoo, only roughly 5 months old.

[NiagaraReptiles]

Cute little buggars, they are..........

I went to see them shortly after they were put on display. Very neat. Hopefully they produce some more in the future.

JonK

[Bartman]

Pretty big baby :D
There amazing herps...are they the biggest reptile?

[Lrptls]

no they arn't bartman, they are considerd the largest lizard by girth, croc monitors are longer. There are snakes that get much larger than komodos and crocodilians.

[reptiguy123]

That little guy has a long tail, considering that komodos are bulky and not as long as some monitors. Thanks for posting a picture of my favorite animal. I do hope, however, that all other posts about monitors go in their proper forums. This way I could've seen it before:D!

[reptiguy123]

"Hopefully they produce some more in the future."
Produce meaning come up with: wild caught, or captive-bred?

hope that question was clear.

Is it even legal for a zoo to bring a wild varanus komodoensis into captivity? Just a question.

[chappy]

Matt,

The Komodos at the Toronto Zoo were given to the zoo I believe from the government of Indonesia. The Toronto Zoo is part of the Species Survival Plan and got the Komodos for breeding purposes. The one in the picture was captive bred at the Toronto Zoo as well as a few others and I believe they have more Komodo eggs cooking right now.

[alive]

yes. the komodos were the gift from Indonesia ( if you watch the zoo diary on life network, you would learn a geart deal about the komodos in toronto zoo)

one question, would the baby komodo have a "bacteria-free" mouth? (since it doesn't eat like the wild one)

[JD@reptiles]

even the adults there have pretty much a bacteria free mouth. thats because they aren't eating dekaying flesh and rotten meat. i saw the eggs that had the komodo's when i was doing some work there. one of the eggs looked great and the other one was yellow and looked like it had no chance :( . but i was happy to have such a fun experience there.

[Quinn,Matt]

There really is no species survival plan existing for komodoensis in western zoos. CB Komodos are unwanted on the islands and most of the zoo bred offspring are destroyed because there is little or no placement opportunity for them.
Komodos are the largest and longest living monitor. Males can be longer and MUCH heavier than salvadorii.
-MQ

[Scales Zoo]

I was under the impression, that by documented length records, the longest monitors recorded are salvator (over 10 feet), komodoensis, then salvadorii, and by weight it was komodoensis, salvator, then salvadorii.

Great pictures of the Komodo, it looks like it has been growing like a bad weed.

Ryan

[ReptiZone]

That is what I thaught too Scales Zoo and as far as trying to save the species there is nothing the Toronto Zoo can do about the species if they stay in Toronto they would need to be funded to go to indoneseia and set up shop there and breed and release the animals the catch is the babys need to be treated like a W/C there for they need a huge padoc to keep the babys n and just feed them on a verry iregulare bassis then when they are a good size release them in the wild. but being in toronto they are under steril enviorments and don't have what is needed to be Wild Animals. and the stuff that could be contracted buy the rest of the wild population from the C/B babys could do Damage on a astronomical level to the wild Population. By introducing C/B bays to the wild we just contibuted to the extiction of the species.

do the reserch you will see I am right on this.


The ReptiZone
Marc & Lucie

[V.hb]

They are doing species survival to breed these guys for zoos, so one unfortunate day in the future when we dont have anymore komodos in the wild, we can still view them in zoos. So yes, it is a species survival program. Ive been a member of the zoo for a couple years now, and their newsletter goes into detail about that..

On the note of mouth bacteria, I guarentee a bite from any monitor would lead to infection, and one the size of a komodo eating meals as big as it does (in captivity or not) is gonna have a dirty mouth.

And yes, Komodos are the heaviest, followed by salvator, and i believe ornate niles are documented as heavier than crocs. Length is unsurpassed by salvadorii though.

[anders_240sx]

Yes the komodos are on species survival...and yes the mouths are full of bacteria. Though one could speculate the amount compared to a wild caught, however each keeper takes precaution when entering the pens ... there is limite contact with these komodos in the zoo.

[Quinn,Matt]

My point is that merely producing CB komodoensis stock is not benefitting naturally occurring komodos or their habitat (by merely adding numbers of species into captivity, this is not to say we are not learning anything we could implement studies on in the wild). I am not denying that they are not on a species survival plan, but, there is already breeding oversight on the islands.
Perhaps if this thread is moved to the Varanid forum Mark can step in with his length record data.
-MQ

[DragnDrop]

Oh oh... I'm kinda dense, I guess. It never dawned on me that Komodos were actually monitors, I thought it was just a nickname type thing because they're so big. Live and learn. I guess I'll move it. See you all in the monitor forum. :)

[reptiguy123]

Don't hurt yourself now:D

[JimmyDavid]

I've seen tons of baby komodo pics and footage (and real ones) and i'll tell anyone right now that the one in the picture is not pure blood. Maybe there's some (who knows) water monitor cross to it or something but it's not a pure blood. garanteed!

[ratzu]

Wrong , thats a komodo baby, guaranteed!

[Bartman]

Just wondering how you can guarentee that...

[ratzu]

I dont think you can :D

[JimmyDavid]

Ratzu, i have many reasons but i'll start with the obvious three:
1- That toe is too long for a komodo.
2- The front "arm" seems shorter than usual for a komodo.
3- The tail is too long and too compressed for a komodo. Water monitor's have those long, compressed tails because they are aquatic, but komodos have slightly shorter and rounder tails. (also tail scalation and pattern is total water's)
I don't see much more than 50% komodo there.

[jungleshadows]

Jimmy my boy what have you been looking at stick figures??

Komodos start out a total different looking monitor then they end up like. They start out resembling a croc. or lace monitor more so then the adult counter parts.

As for your big toe goes they do have that and as they grow in size and girth the body is so large the toe no longer appears elongated.

The ridge you see on the tail is also a komodo trait they do not have rounded tails. Even as adults they have a slight ridge.

The pattern is very distinct as little ones, and fades with age. So again your wrong.

Please do some research it only takes about half a brain cell to figure out thats a komodo.

[Quinn,Matt]

JimmyDavid,
I believe I am now dumber for having read your post.
-MQ

[meow_mix450]

rare!!!!!! i live near the toronto zoo, i even watch there show, not long i saw that little guy on tv, they had a problem with him, its intestine, came out, and they had to fix him up, and this is there first komodo dragon yay!!! sucess at last. Hes so big now, the last time i saw him:p

Meow

[ratzu]

WTF???I have 2 waters and I can't see anything that resembles them.

Where you are pulling this from, I haven't a clue.

[JimmyDavid]

My friends, believe me, i've WORKED with adult and baby komodos( Portugal is also part of the conservation program with Indonesia) and at 5 months those "newborn" traits should be gone in a pure blood. But hey, i'm only telling from a picture. Sure, i could be wrong (doubt it, though) but one thing is for certain, Quinn show me how much you know on the subject and then make stupid *** comments like those, ok! Stick to PetShop monitors and don't try to make someone who probably has seen more komodos live than you did on tv look stupid, because really it's pathetic... idiot.

[JimmyDavid]

The same goes to you, jungleshadows.

[Quinn,Matt]

You haven't the slightest clue who I am or what I keep.

What sort of "WORKED" are you implying?.

How many actual komodoensisXsalavator hybrids do you know of?Can you prove their blood? Or refer us to someone who can?

If you want people to take consideration with these bogus claims back your theories up with something more than twistedly unprobable speculation.
-MQ

[JimmyDavid]

Do a bit of research and you'll find that Komodo and salvator "mutts" have been recorded in Flores. I'm guessing that baby from the picture has got to have some Flores background. Can anybody track down the origin of his parents?

A true juvenile komodo should look like that one playing "stand up" with Nicole. Now check that pic in that post and compare with the "komodo dragon" from this thread.

[jungleshadows]

Once again you have proven to me how little you know.

I told you before to not compare an adult to a youngster. But yet you tell us to compare the two pictures which one is 5 months and another is an adult. By the size I would say 3 years of age or so.

My background goes through zoology, biology, zoo keeper, curator, reptile breeder. I have credentials to back myself up with.

So watch the toes you step on or you might just get knocked the f@#$ out.


By seeing one that is 5 months and lost its color does not mean they all do this. Some retain pattern longer then others. depending on how it is kept it will either grow fast or slow. There is alot of things in play there.

There is not one thing I see in the picture that makes me think it is crossed. Everything you said about it not being a komodo is proven wrong cause they do have those features.

So sorry kimmydavid you need to prove yourself more then saying your some portugal Komodo whispering wannabe.

[reptiguy123]

I'd like to know if there was a komodo hybrid or morph or anything of that matter.
The picture doesn't look like a komodo...



however, have you seen baby dragons? They are GREEN! Big difference from the bronze-colored adults. I'm not saying you are wrong, Jimmydavid. Just do research and find out the origin of this little guy for yourself.

[Bartman]

http://kevingong.com/Hiking/Images/199909TorontoZoo/C10KomodoDragons.jpg
this guy has a long tail and a big toe, but as someone on here said...they grow into it with there girth....that has to be a komodo

[Bartman]

that aint my pic btw, no clue where i got it from but i dun wanna take credit...

[meow_mix450]

well the dragons were imported from another country i forgot where

Meow

[TheRedDragon]

Awesome pic Skink Keeper! That's one cute komodo. Aside from Savs, komodos are one of my favourite monitors. :)

[Bartman]

They would deffinetly be my favourite...to bad they cant be pets, id love to own one...maybe when i own a zoo :rolleyes:

[reptiguy123]

Amen, Adam.:D

[JimmyDavid]

I'm surprised nobody noticed the fact that resting on branches is NOT usual Komodo behaviour. They are mainly terrestrial creatures. Small ones can sometimes climb trees when they are frightened but that's about it, as they grow they stay on the ground. Now, that one from the pic is not frightened, he is just chillin' up there...mighty weird! I have spent hours watching Komodo dragons at the Lisbon zoo and never even seen one resting on branches.
Of course this proves nothing, but i'm not here to prove anything. I'm just opening some possibilities (that some people try at all costs to put down like it could never be possible in a million years).

[Big_V]

From what Ive learned about Komodos for along part of their young life they spend alot of time in the trees. It seems by the size of that komodo it would still be around the age that they are arboreal as well as terrestrial. Young komodo's instinctively spend large amounts of time climbing around so im not sure that just that lizard sitting on the branch proves your hypothesis. Im not trying to say your wrong or anything because a hybrid is always a possibility but from the pictures provided and the pattern and colouring on the animal it is almost certainly a komodo baby.
Cheers,
Ryan

[ratzu]

JimmyDavid,
I don't think anyone here is putting down the possibility that komodos can breed with different Varanids. It's always a possibility, but that Komodo baby shows nothing to that effect.

Also the fact that you mention Komodo babies dont spend anytime on trees, shows again, how little you really know. Komodo babies do spend alot of time on trees and branches to avoid predation, both from other predators and larger komodos. Other species of Varanids do this as well when babies, that are considered terrestrial.

Sorry bud I have to call your bluff.

[JimmyDavid]

I NEVER mentioned that "komodo babies dont spend anytime on trees". I only said that as they grow that is a tendency that fades away. Since i never met this lizard in question i will state no more opinions of mine since i don't want to judge it from a picture.
Ratzu, check all my posts and see if i, though we were debating, ever said "you know little of Komodos". I never did because i don't know you and gave you that much benefict; but you, without knowing me at all keep saying that i know very little about the subject...
Do you feel the need to put others down?

[ratzu]

Here Jimmy this is what you wrote:

"Quinn show me how much you know on the subject and then make stupid *** comments like those, ok! Stick to PetShop monitors and don't try to make someone who probably has seen more komodos live than you did on tv look stupid, because really it's pathetic... idiot." "Same goes to you, JungleShadows"


So now you're being a hypocrite too.

I'm just calling you on the fact that you make all these outlandish claims with no evidence at all to support them. Thats called lieing.

Show me some proof that youre so knowledgeable and experienced with Komodos. Show me some pictures of you working with them.

[jungleshadows]

Hey what do you know Jimmy or David whichever one of the happy couple you are, You actually got something right for once.

"Of course this proves nothing"

Exactly my point so why even mention it as fact if it is ficition?

You came on strong saying it was something it was not, i did not feel the need to put someone down you just made it easy. LOL

I only came here to make sure the facts remained true and not made up. Stick to the facts and nothing but the facts.


"I am judge jury and executioner, and remember your under oath!"

[norman]

JimmyDavid...listen....you need to watch the discovery channel for about ten minutes to realize that that's a komodo. I know nothing of monitors, really, but even I knew that as youngsters they are arboreal. There's specials on them all the time. Chill the f*** out, man. If you've got somthing to prove, go out and buy a large, phalic car and tool around town. I'm not pretending to know anything more than I do about monitors, which is very little, but I am observing some serious self-worth issues on your part with the name calling and pointless agression.

[DragnDrop]

Let's keep calm here, no need to get carried away with name calling. This thread is interesting, it would be a shame to cut it short.

[Dark_Angel_25]

I personally don't know why it happens, that everytime someone disagrees with something EVERYBODY jumps on them.

JimmyDavid is entitled to his opinion. he stated reasons why he BELIEVES it is not a pure blood. that is all. If he was wrong, then there is a nicer way of stating that his observatoins may not be right... calling him names, and insulting him is not that way.

The basis is that everyone has the right to express what they believe, and I don't think it is necessary to jump down peoples throats because of it.

DragnDrop is right, this is an interesting thread.. so how about we keep the third grade mentality out of it... and I mean that comment to everyone....

Just my $0.02

[ratzu]

Dark Angel the reason everyones jumping down his throat is because hes wrong.

Yeah Jimmy has the right to his opinions and beliefs of course but this is not about world views, religion or favorite colors. This is about facts. Hes calling a bear, a tiger.

Plus you defending Jimmy doesnt help you in any way since he is doing alot of the name calling himself.

Just my 2 cents

[reptiguy123]

"Just my $0.02"

Dark_Angel_25, why don't you put all your pennies into something useful, you idiot!


















































Lol, just kidding, I really appreciate what you said.:D

[reptiguy123]

BTW, when are people going to run out of $0.02?

[Dark_Angel_25]

I am not defending anybody.. all I am saying is if he is wrong fine.. he is wrong.. that doesn't mean you have to call him an idiot... or anything else. all you had to say was
" Joimmy, you are entitled to your opinion, but I personally do not agree with you"

gets the same point across, without sounding like a child. Name calling is never necessary.

Reptiguy... I really do hope you were joking (although I did not think it all that funny) with your last comment about me..

[ratzu]

Uhhhhhm hello

I didnt call him an idiot. I was quoting JIMMY calling others an idiot. Go back and read the post more carefully.

[marisa]

While all of you are bickering over them bickering......(LMAO entertaining though for sure)

If you guys are really curious, which it seems to be an interesting topic....maybe someone could just call the Toronto Zoo's reptile dept....or make a point of asking about its origins during their next trip there. :D They do a "meet the keeper" of many animals, including the Komodo.

Marisa

[reptiguy123]

Sorry if you took it the wrong way; it was a joke.

Folks, the thing that Dark_Angel_25 is saying is to drop something. If I called you an idiot without saying I was only kidding, Dark_Angel_25, you probably would say that's not nice and get over it. That's what other people (not saying any names) need to do.

[reptiguy123]

No, Marisa, that would ruin it!:D

[ratzu]

Yeah Marisa. Jody"Jungle Shadows" has a pdf. file with all the info on locality, parents etc.

You can email them "Toronto Zoo" and they will send it to you

[reptiguy123]

I bet Skink Keeper never thought that this debate would come about!:)

[Bartman]

was watching croc hunter and he was on "komodo island" where they are trying to breed large amounts to keep the population up, anyway...he also agreed that most komodo's, as babies/juvis, will keep up in the trees to stay away from larger dragons that could eat them...they also do a lot of feeding in the trees...from what he said

[Quinn,Matt]

I'm calling him an idiot and liar.
-MQ

[reptiguy123]

Why?

[Dark_Angel_25]

Ratzu: I apologise, it was Jungleshadows that started the name calling or belittleling if you prefer. I got you 2 mixed up.

Reptiguy, yes that is what I meant just drop it basically, and seeing as it was a joke, it is all good :D

[reptiguy123]

Yea, look at my other posts. I enjoy saying untrue things, and then at the end, saying it was a joke and making the person feel better than before:D

[Dark_Angel_25]

MAtt Quinn: that IS a little harsh. he is stating his opinion from his experience, that doesn';t make him a liar. and personally I think that your comments are very much un needed for a good discussion/debate. you are just posting to stir up the pot, and that is not necessary. It is possible to have a disscussion or debate without bringing yourself to a 2 point IQ by name calling and putting other people down. and I am sure you know that, but choose to ignore it.

[ratzu]

Cmon now Dark angel, Matt's got the right to express himself too.

[Dark_Angel_25]

he does have the right to express himself, BUT IMO, his comments were uncalled for. what reason did he have for posting what he did?

If we can't even carry on an adult conversation on these forums, then what is the point of using them... and that was a personnal attack on someone.. it is more than just opinion.

That kind of comment falls under the 'if you can't say something nice' category, it was rude, and un called for.

[ratzu]

Ok, ok now youre trying to shove your beliefs and opinions down peoples throats. I think we get it, thanks.

[jungleshadows]

Dark Angel??? More like a gleaming ray of light if you ask me. Nothing dark about you.


Sorry if my as you called it third grade humor disturbs you. I do not remember saying anything to you though. Are you a teacher? or just someone playing mom?

I got a mom and had all the teachers I can stand. I was done with college long ago.

I did not ask you to read my posts. I made very good statements to back my opinions up. Jimmy david has not. He says the he said she said.

Sorry to offend you but I was not trying to offend you all my comments went in one direction.

But hey say something dumb and maybe i will pick on you too ;)

This topic shouldn't exist, it is a nice pic of a baby komodo. The discussion after that is merely here say. There are no facts that it is a cross. I got info from the toronto zoo. That is no cross my friend.

So the only thing keeping a good discussion as you called it is me. but hey i am mean cruel and belitting someone.

So come spank me already if it makes you feel better. LOL

[Bartman]

hey quin, seriously guy...who do you think you are. All i see every other 10 posts is "your a dumbass, your a liar", how bout you say something informative or that has to do with this post...all your doing is acting like ur 2. I was on the other side of jimmy but hey, theres no need for anyone to start tossing out remarks on a public forum...if you really want call the guy up and kick his *** :), we dont need this crap here...i know i dont want it

[DragnDrop]

It was fun while it lasted, but now I think it's starting to get out of hand with personal attacks.

Sorry to be a party pooper, but I think it's time to close this thread.