Heating

[reptiguy123]

How mant watts is a good type to have for savannah monitors? Also, what type of lamp is fit for the good bulb? One more question: how do you suspend a light fixture without it being in reach of the monitor?

[hudson]

You can't really go by watts because it's going to be different depending on the size of the enclosure and how far above the basking site the lamp is mounted. Use a thermometer to measure the temp of the basking area and make sure it's above 120. If you suspend your heat lamp inside the enclosure chances are good your sav is going to be able to reach they don't need the aid of a wall to stand straight up, I have mine on top (outside) of the enclosure so he can't burn himself.

[NiagaraReptiles]

All of my monitor enclosures, with the exception of my nursery, have light bulbs mounting inside the cage. I've never had a problem. This also allows me to attain higher basking temperatures with lower wattage light bulbs by lowering the light to within 6-8 inches of the closest surface, thus saving electricity and also not creating nearly the same ammount of heat that a higher wattage bulb would. Monitors are smarter than most give them credit for. As long as your basking spot is more than what your monitor wants, it won't play with the bulb very much. Though some species seem to like unscrewing heat lamps.....
The problem that I did have with external mounted bulbs is that the heat created by the bulb rises straight up and out of the cage through the fixture/screen. This makes regualting humidity much more difficult and increases maintenence.

Best wishes,

JonK

[reptiguy123]

Do the both of you have pictures so that I can get an idea of what the cages look like? Thanks.

[NiagaraReptiles]

<img src="http://www.niagarareptiles.com/temp/stocktank01.jpg">

This is the best pic I have kicking around right now. It should give you an idea of how my lights are set up anyway.

Best wishes,

JonK

[DragnDrop]

Jon, that enclosure reminds me of one I've seen before, but can't place. Didn't Scotty have something like that?

Oh... you wouldn't have a better picture of your cat, would you? She has very unusual colours, I'd love to see her face. :)

[reptiguy123]

Jon, how is the light attached? Is it hanging? Please post a picture of the light from an inside view. Two more questions: what is the black and white striped creature in the other cage in the upper left portion of the picture? This question goes out to all: Do savannah monitors have the same cage requirements (heat, light, humidity) as ackies and kimberlies? Thanks for all of the replies!

[reptiguy123]

One more question. Can anyone explain in deph what heat tape is and where I can buy it?

[NiagaraReptiles]

Hilde - Scotty used the galvanized steel stock tanks. I came across these poly ones and designed the tops myself. It's something that has worked very well for me the last few years. I will PM you regarding kitty pics :)

reptileguy123 - the light is screwed into a normal light socket mounted to the under side of the of plywood (i used the shallow electrical boxes with these). Since I used only 1/4" willow for the tops, I used bolts to mount the light fixture.
The black and white tail you see belongs to a baby Glauerti that I was baby sitting at the time.

JonK

[crocdoc]

I'm with Jon on the lights mounted inside the enclosure. My first enclosure was a store bought one with light fixtures on top, separated by screen from the enclosure. The heat and humidity went straight up and out and it was a constant battle keeping that lizard humid enough. Since then I've built a couple of my own enclosures and put the light fixtures inside. I haven't had a problem with monitors burning themselves. If they touch the bulb, it'll only be once.

[reptiguy123]

I know from my research that screens were out of the question from the start for monitor lizards:)

[V.hb]

An alternative to Jons enclosure (using the tubs) I found the tubs/troughs quite expensive and knew i could create a cheaper alternative that works just as well.

I made a pretty unique ackie enclosure. Its got everything they need,well everything i KNOW they need ;)

No pics but i'll describe it.. Picked up one of the 4x2x2 rubbermaid containers (its almost 4x2x2, roughly 40"X20"x20") Put a piece of pink insulation underneath the rubbermaid to shield it from a cold floor(you dont see this at all if done right) Then i constructed a 4x2x2 box out of plywood (treated concrete floor paint) and attached it with screws to the rubbermaid. It looks quite nice has a floodlamp fixture inside.

The rubbermaid is full to the brim with a dirt mixture. Ive measured the temps at the extreme bottom of the dirt, and its still around 77 degrees (this is 2 feet down) Works great!! and costed me about 125$.

[reptiguy123]

Hmmmm. I can't picture it. Can you take a picture of it for me?

[reptiguy123]

I've heard of many different ways to attach a ligh, but I could easily make mistakes with the definitions given. Just keep in mind, a picture tells a thousand words.:D

[Jeff_Favelle]

I've heard of many different ways to attach a ligh, but I could easily make mistakes with the definitions given.

If you don't know how to install a simply ceramic (YES, ceramic) socket, perhaps you should get someone to build the cage for you. Installing the light is the easiest part of the monitor cage!! Where to put it, how far from the basking spot to put it, what wattage, what type (flood, spot, regular) etc etc are FAR FAR harder questions and husbandry problems.

If you're getting stumped on installing a socket, its best that you get someone to build the cage for you. No sense taking any chances with a living creature.

[reptiguy123]

First of all, the problem IS how to attach the light on the inside. If you haven't noticed, the question that I asked on the thread starter itself was what the wattage should be. Secondly, I plan to position my light at the basking spot. This may come as a surprise to you Jeff, but people ACTUALLY ask questions to find out something! Can you believe that?! Anyway, I hope other people replying to this thread actually try to notice my problem and try to walk me through it or show me pictures, rather that sit around and criticize me. Jeff, I hope I made my point to you. I also hope the people who reply to this thread will actually help me. Thank you all who helped me and will help me in the future.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Don't cry about it. I was just trying to get your point of reference.

First of all, the problem IS how to attach the light on the inside.

Well, you just get a socket and then screw it in to the top, like Kendrick's picture showed. Then you screw in the light bulb into the socket. I don't understand what you are trying to ask.

After that, wattage, bulb type, etc etc cannot be answered by anybody, as it will be cage/species specific. You KNOW the temperatures you have to get the cage to (or at least a good range to have it at), so I don't see the problem.

As for critizing you, I wasn't. I was merely looking after the well-being of any potential animals you might or might not own. Being able to srcew in a socket is the most basic of tasks in owning a monitor. If you can't accomplish that, then you seriously need to look at owning such a tricky animal. I'm not critizing, chastizing, or anything. Its not about you. Its about the animals. You make a box, fill it with dirt and furnishings, screw in a light socket with flood light. Play around with the light until you get a 120F+ basking spot and an 80F ambient. Add monitor and then watch to make any adjustments. That's it. Its not rocket science. The hard part comes when you have to interpret the monitor's actions into what you have to do/change as a keeper. And if you are at the part where you need to see pictures of people screwing in a light bulb, then yes, I question whether or not you are going to be able to make the correct obersvations at the key times they are needed.

Sorry man, no harm intended. Its all about the animals, not you.

[NiagaraReptiles]

Originally posted by reptiguy123
I also hope the people who reply to this thread will actually help me. Thank you all who helped me and will help me in the future.

............and I'm asked why I don't post much anymore.

If you do not know how to mount an electrical box and comply with whatever means of electricity regulations are in place where you live, I would suggest having someone else do it. Electricity is not something to be messed with, for the safety of your monitor as well as the safety of you and all who may burn down as a result of a miss-wired/mounted electrical box.

I thought I gave a pretty thorough description in my previous post.

It seems to me like you like to ask questions but not listen to answers and suggestions. Of course that is your choice, but it may limit your offers the next time around........

Best wishes,

JonK

[reptiguy123]

Ok. I might have led you to believe that I didn't know hoe to screw in a simple light. I had a busy day, and was tired and not thinking things through. In fact, now that I reread my earlier posts, I laugh at what I had typed. What I really mean to ask is what heat tape is and where and how to attach that. I can manage to do simple tasks like attaching a light fixture, and completly agree with your laughing from what you have read. Jeff, I was cranky last night; you knew it:D. So basically what I am asking now is if you can attach heat tape on the inside of a tank and how to do so. I know a lot about light bulbs and other acpects of electronics, so you don't need to worry about the well being of my monitor. However, I haven't heard much sbout heat tape.


Sorry about whoever I snapped at. I usually read my posts before I submit them, but I was a bit cranky and restless last night. I hope you all enjoy a laugh at my carelessness, as well as letting me know what the heck heat tape is!!:)

[Jeff_Favelle]

No worries man. Its all about the animals, so I never get offended! :D

As for the heat tape, I wish I could help. I don't use it. Actually, I didn't know anyone used it with monitors!! That doesn't mean its wrong, it just means that in my infinite ignorance, I've never come across heat tape in a monitor's cage!!

From what I gather, heat tape would only be used to raise the ambient in a monitor cage if they were to be kept in a really cold room. I would mount the heat tape on the OUTSIDE of the cage, on the same side as the light (to KEEP the thermal gradient), and then put on a dimmer or thermostat to regulate the temps. Then the heat tape could be used to keep the ambient at 80F when the lights go out at night, or on really cold days.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help. Kendrick has OODLES of monitors and info, so maybe he's come across the heat tape thing more than me. I wouldn't doubt it.

Cheers. :D

[reptiguy123]

So, do you heat your enclosure with bulbs alone? I also heard about heat rocks being an option, but then again, do they make big enough ones for a monitor? I'm sorry if I post another thread with as much errors as this one, but it's all about the animals, right? I'm also not all that experianced with things dealing with monitors, and that is why I ask so many questions. Thanks all, and if anyone has a photo of heat tape or wants to tell me how it works, feel free to post here.

[Jeff_Favelle]

I also heard about heat rocks being an option,

Hot rocks are NOT an option.

So, do you heat your enclosure with bulbs alone?

My monitor room is 78F ambient. That's the temperature that I want my cool part of my cage to be. So I just making the basking spot 120F and the rest takes care of itself. I believe that's what most people with more than a few monitors do. I'm not sure how I would keep just one in a cold-ish room. I never encountered that problem, so I never thought about it.

Better that you ask the questions now than after getting the animal(s)!! Very commendable!! :D

[reptiguy123]

Well, I don't want my cluelessness costing the life of an animal that is so near and dear to our hearts:D. The room in question for the enclosure is about 60F, so I probably wouldn't need heat tape that desperately. However, I will probably be using a full-spectrum light with a rheostat attached. If there is anything else for regularing heat/humidity that is vital, please notify me on your own time.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Full-spectrum is garbage. Save you money and get a bigger cage and more monitors!!!

You don't necessarily need to use a dimmer with the light. Most people just mess around with the wattage and the distance to the basking spot to get their desired temps. Its takes a few days (weeks) of calibration, but its done without a dimmer or thermostat. This is very much UNLIKE snakes, I know, and it definitely took me a LONG time to get my head around monitor husbandry.

Also, there are a million ways to do things, and each situation has its own "best" set up. The trick is for you to find it.

[reptiguy123]

I think that I will try things with a single monitor before housing a group. However, I will keep in mind the things that you tell me, and work on positioning my light. Since my focus in on a light now and not heat tape, I'm thinking of putting a light that is well away from reach in the cage. How high can a sav stand if it uses the side for support? This is probably my only issue for the moment and I think I'll start out with a 75 watt basking light. Yell at me if this is wrong to start out with, because I don't want to chill or burn my pet!!

[Jeff_Favelle]

I use TWO 150W floodlights in each of my monitor cages (8 cages in total) and I haven't burned anything. Just as a reference.

Here's an old pic of when I was setting up the room...



http://members.shaw.ca/gallerya/monitor_cage1.jpg



This pic is of a feeding after the monitors had settled in. I was dangling crickets and spiders on the stick and they would grab them. The following feeding (next day) they were just taking them out of my hand.

http://members.shaw.ca/gallerya/monitor_cage2.jpg


I didn't even have time to properly monitor the temperatures and record before they started doing this:

http://members.shaw.ca/gallerya/monitor_cage3.jpg

And the damn incubator wasn't even up and running when I dug up these. The fecundity of these beasts never ceases to amaze me. The only thing that's more amazing, is how many people in Canada aren't interested in monitors. These are without a doubt, the funnest of all the animals I own. I can't believe more people aren't buying into them. Way cooler than a Ball Python or Boa morph. Oh well. More for me and Kenrick and Brandon and Ravi and Don, etc etc!! :D



http://members.shaw.ca/gallerya/monitor_cage4.jpg

[chuck911jeep]

hey Jeff!
Nice set up, nice monitor. As i can see, your a good light fixer...:medtoothy . Hope it will help other dude?

[Jeff_Favelle]

Me too Justin! And thanx! It was a alot of work to set up, but now, the monitors just take care of themselves. They really need very little maintenance!!

:D

[reptiguy123]

Is the substrate that you're using cleaned beach sand?

[chuck911jeep]

If you want a good substrat, try oaks leaves

[Jeff_Favelle]

Sand? Nooooooo. Sand is for the beach.

This is MONITOR substrate, so naturally its silty, alkaline DIRT. Nary a sand particle in it.

[Jeff_Favelle]

If you want a good substrat, try oaks leaves

Oak leaves? For a Savannah? I think you may have to re-think that man! LOL!

[NiagaraReptiles]

Wow Favelle, you use <i>TWO</i> 150 W bulbs per cage and are getting temps like 78-120?!?!

This is a perfect example of how what works at one persons house doesn't always work the same way somewhere else.......

My 4x2x4 stock tanks are heated with only one 100W flood.........and I've burned pieces of wood under basking areas into smouldering ashes :) Not on purpose, just for the record.....though the monitors still use the basking spots at that extreme temp, they do so very differently. I try to keep basking spots around 130°-140°F............but I can't remember the last time I had to use a thermometer in my cages.

Anyway, I have to go do some diggin' ;)

JonK

[chuck911jeep]

Why oak leaves isn't good for exanthematicus?Oaks leaves smell good, when squash and packed, it's ok for almost anything. Remember the time when everybody used newspaper, have you ever seen a snake or a lizard on a newspaper substrate in nature... But If you explain to me why isn't good, i'm open to criticism. Thank's Jeff

[Jeff_Favelle]

Savannah's dig. Savannah's make elaborate tunnels and chambers for more things than nesting. Its part of their life activities. Like breathing.

How do they do that in a pile of oak leaves? Might work for some Indo monitors, but not Savs. Sorry.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Kenrick, I hear ya. I just checked the bulb boxes, and they are 125W. But they both aren't on at the same time. Normal for the day, and for about 4 hours at night, the red ones kick on. This is just for November to March, to keep the cage temps from falling. Plus it heats the room ambient up and keeps the baby ones happy.

Tried both on at the same time in a test cage today and in 1/2 hour, the hot spot was 165F and the ambient was 105F!! LOL! Not very good for a monitor I would say.

But yeah, they're all on timers. In March, the red ones don't even come on at night anymore.

[V.hb]

Jeff, oak leaves work really well, aside from lots of dirt we use tons of oak leaves as well with our albigs. They burrow in dirt, and oak. Only trick is keeping the leaves moist and avoid having them dry and crumple up. Its also really easy to mix oak leaves with dirt and get a very burrowable substrate.
The smell is also a pro, as it really does smell clean.

[chuck911jeep]

good or not, i now use oak leaves for almost everything...

[V.hb]

Originally posted by chuck911jeep
good or not, i now use oak leaves for almost everything...

Me too, I use it with my frilleds, beardies, most of my monitors.

I also have dirt for them, oak leaves are kind of a finishing touch.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Jeff, oak leaves work really well, aside from lots of dirt we use tons of oak leaves as well with our albigs.

Yes, but yo don't use oak leaves by itself for your albigs, do you?

good or not, i now use oak leaves for almost everything

That's an excellent way to approach husbandry for living creatures. :(

[V.hb]

Jeff I think the point hes trying to make is most people are to lazy to get dirt, and leaf litter is pretty easy to come by in the fall.... So its either some crappy pet store sand, or oak leaves.. Id personally go with oak, but yes you're 100% right I wouldnt just use oak on its own, maybe for a baby monitor, but thats it.

Jeff, have you tried oak with any of your snakes?? It actually is pretty good stuff.

[chuck911jeep]

when i said good or not, i mean for YOU! Sorry Jeff but you have your opinion and i get mine. I still appreciate most of your post...

[Jeff_Favelle]

V.hb, I have oak leaves in 2 of my Ball cages right now, but I'm switching them back to bark most likely. I like the Oak leaves for the Carpets, but the Balls really need the high humidity, and with the Oak leaves, the water is just repelled by them and falls to the bottom. Its like using perlite! Ha ha. I would definitely use a layer (over dirt of course) of oak leaves for indo monitors and jungle species. But for Aussie monitors or Savannahs, I wouldn't bother. Dirt seems to be just fine. I'm sure the leaves won't hurt though. They might enjoy/benefit from a digging session for crickets or pinkies hidden in the leaves.

As for using oak leaves SOLELY as a substrate for Savannahs? I would say that is a result in the lack of understanding of the animal in question, and I would really feel bad for any Savannahs stuck on that substrate their whole lives. I would suggest getting Ravi's book or reading the FAQ on varanus.net.

[reptiguy123]

If I just dug up dirt in my backyard for a sav, would I have to get it treated or cleaned? I tried to use a dirt substrate once, and there were a lot of little bugs and mold in it.

[Jeff_Favelle]

If I just dug up dirt in my backyard for a sav, would I have to get it treated or cleaned? I tried to use a dirt substrate once, and there were a lot of little bugs and mold in it.

All dirt is different. There are not one in the same. Some dirt sucks, some dirt is great, and some dirt falls in between.

The dirt I have used has never required washing or sterilizing. I cannot tell you about your dirt, nor would I try to. Sorry man, I know it doesn't help you, but that's how it is. :(

[NiagaraReptiles]

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
I would definitely use a layer (over dirt of course) of oak leaves for indo monitors and jungle species. But for Aussie monitors or Savannahs, I wouldn't bother. Dirt seems to be just fine. I'm sure the leaves won't hurt though. They might enjoy/benefit from a digging session for crickets or pinkies hidden in the leaves.


There are a few Aussie species that really do well with a little leaf litter.......glauerti being on that end of the scale. I do agree with your point, Jeff, just I thought I would just elaborate a little. Have you tried throwing a pile of leaf litter in with your Ackies? I bet they, as well as yourself, would really like the outcome......though I wouldn't want to keep in in there all the time, it is great mental stimulation for them. They will enjoy it more if you throw some bugs in there too for them to hunt for ;)

As for leaf litter and African species, I don't see the point at all, nor do I see any possible benifit to this.......especially for reproductive purposes.

Anyway, that's my $0.02

JonK

[SHvar]

From 8 inches away the basking spot in my ackies cage is 188f, yet its 86f (air temp fluxuates from 86 down to 79f depending on room air temp which is usually 66-68f) ambient temp next to the basking spot. My albigs have between 156-165f basking spots using the same 45watt bulbs at around or over a foot above the basking spots. The ackies light is a ceramic fixture ($1.19 a piece) wired to 16 gauge lamp cord ($20 for 300ft) with a($1.00) plug made for 16gauge wire. The bulbs are 45 watt outdoor floods ($5.00 a piece at Walmart), I use GE bulbs because they last longer but most importantly dont have a spot center to them, although Shadow still has the last hybrid spot/flood bulbs in his cage. In the albig cages I attach the lights to a piece of plywood then suspend it from the ceiling of the cage with hooks and chains (makes the basking temp and air temps adjustable). The basking spots are plywood over dirt, I set the wood into short stacks. The ackie uses a piece of cork bark for a basking spot. Ill try to attach a pic from Sobeks cage of the basking light.

Heres a link to this pic at my website thats been under constuction for a while. I dont know when Ill get more done on it, pain in the butt.

http://varanusimages.0catch.com/_webimages/100_0998.JPG

[V.hb]

isnt 188F kind of hot? Iam quite cautious of my temps if they go over 150, due to fire hazards etc. Not criticizing you, just more out of concern of a fire?

[SHvar]

When I set it up it initially read 156, afterwards the ackie was excavating so much he raised the basking spot higher and higher until it was that close (8 inches) that the surface now was 180-188. I havent had a problem with those temps and he basks for so long sometimes (I guess if he was endangering himself hed make it lower). He uses it so I guess thats what matters. Ackies are tough little buggers and so intelligent. Even my big albig raises her basking spot some which brings the surface to 165 or so after some time of it being a bit lower. The cork bark keeps a much higher surface temp than the plywood (darker) so thats why such a difference. I guess I decided some time ago to take advice from Frank Retes on giving them options to make use as they need them, and surface temps really being only somewhat relevent but preferred differently by individuals and not going by species. It bothered me at first but after so many months it hasnt done anything to harm them.

[reptiguy123]

Is it absolutely to have a seasonal cycle? I think that I will have one basking lamp and one of the red lights that turns on only at night. Will I need to increase the daylight period in the summer and decrease in winter if I do not plan to mate my lizards?

[V.hb]

Matt, no not nessecary.. Most people dont even brumate animals that they ARE breeding. I'am trying brumation right now with my blackthroats to see if il have any success come spring (crosses fingers)
But no brumation certainly wont hurt your monitor.

[crocdoc]

hey Vhb,

You are right in that it isn't necessary to brumate, but I brumate my V varius and find (in my limited experience) that it triggers mating. Two weeks after I start warming them up and pumping them full of food the female's ova develop and she becomes receptive. This year I warmed them up a month earlier than last year (a hot week fooled me into thinking we were going to have an early spring) and they still started mating two weeks after I warmed them up.

[reptiguy123]

Well, I'm definately glad to hear that!:D The last thing I needed was to try to copy the seasonal cycle of daylight!!!

[crocdoc]

well, even if you did want to copy the seasonal daylight cycles, there are little gismos you can plug your lights into that have a sensor. When this sensor is stuck onto a window, the lights are turned off and on in accordance with the day/night cycles. A few friends use these with some of the native reptiles but I haven't tried them.

[reptiguy123]

Sounds interesting, but I don't think I'll bother with that.

[V.hb]

wow, interesting!

how long of a brumation period did you put them through, and what kind of temperatures?

[crocdoc]

the duration varies. The longest was five months or so. This past year they were down for three months, perhaps a bit longer. As far as temperatures go, I let the enclosure drop down to ambient room temperatures which, in winter, average around 14C at night to 20C by day. The coldest it got to in that room was around 12C this past winter, I believe.

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

Cool!

[reptiguy123]

What age are savs sexually mature?

[crocdoc]

it depends more on size than age. You should buy a copy of Daniel and Rav's savannah monitor book. Lots of information in there about this sort of stuff.

[reptiguy123]

Okay, thanks.