Carpet breeders: Be careful when combatting! [Archive]

Jeff_Favelle

12-29-03, 02:42 AM

Roy, I hear ya about the Ball Pythons man! The males just go nuts! Its totally humorous!! Just last week I had 2 male Rainbows together for 4 minutes and they managed to pop the glass AND tracking out of the front of the cage!! LOL! And of course it was the top cage, so there was glass EVERYWHERE! That was a fun night as well. But the good thing about combatting males, even if they are normally nasty snakes, they aren't concerned with me during combat. I can pick them up, move them around, pull them apart, etc etc, and all they are worried about is getting to the other male to fight! Makes things a LOT easier than trying to deal with 2 ornary and BIG animals at the same time!!

Both JCP's that were fighting are now locked up with their respective females! Should be a bumper crop!

Roy, you must have some Rainbow stories like that eh?!!! ;)

djc3674

12-29-03, 02:46 AM

Jeff_Favelle

12-29-03, 03:00 AM

hmmmm....okay, so I wasn't mistaken. "Combatting" is putting two male snakes together for the purpose of fighting. Why is this done? Are you telling me, that these snakes would not breed unless they fight first?

Yes, some males can be reluctant to copulate or court females unless they have been "combatted" first. Not all males, but some. They don't really fight (no upper-cuts or jabs or headlocks). They just coil around each other and try to pin each other to display their dominance. To the victor go the spoils, you know? I've heard it can get out of hand, but I just do it for a few minutes to a male that's not in breeding sync with the rest of the collection, or with a male that I KNOW will win the struggle, so I can put him in with a pre-chosen female to make sure HE is the one that mates with her. Its all really harmless to the animals, as long as you keep an eye on them. Its natural. The unnatural part is that in captive conditions, there is no escape. So the loser could end up getting injured or other bad things might happen. Whereas in the wild, the weaker individual would just flee. Not the case within the confines of a cage.

Moral: Be careful and WATCH. Be there or........er.....be square! LOL! :D

http://members.shaw.ca/galleryb/JCM1xJCF4_2003.jpg

djc3674

12-29-03, 03:15 AM

cool man..thanks for the info, I guess ya do learn something everyday..whoo hooo...i love this site. :)

Jeff_Favelle

12-29-03, 03:26 AM

LOL! No probs man! :D

Stockwell

12-29-03, 04:16 AM

Jeff, your advice not to leave them together is damn good advice. I had two Regius bust skin open when I left them for only a few minutes.It was a minor "rip" but they can go absolutely nuts when they start that barrel rolling twisting, corkscrew stuff...They can become injured, especially given that the loser has no place to go and the victor will keep pounding on him.
It's best to only do it for 5 or 10 minutes, always supervised just like you suggest.

I generally combat all boids if I have multiple males, but some don't combat.
Kenyan sand boas don't seem to combat, but Rough scales do, but not violently, its more like those Garter snake breeding balls you see on TV. I tossed 5 mature males in with a big female the past season, and it was something to see. The males try to "twitch" each other off the female, while all the time fighting for cloacal contact.

Colubrids also have their own version of combat.
Jeff, I'm sure you've seen two male Hondurans become rather annoyed with each other if two are put in with a ripe female. The do a lot of twitching and jerking and even biting.
I've had more rack bins knocked out by combating and courting Hondos than anything else.., but then they are big strong tiangulum.

Does combating serve a purpose?...Yes, I believe it does increase the odds of successful fertile matings.
Is combating necessary for fertility? NO

Jeff_Favelle

12-29-03, 05:43 AM

Jeff, your advice not to leave them together is damn good advice. I had two Regius bust skin open when I left them for only a few minutes.

Gte out! Really? That's crazy. Normally such placid creatures too. But as you know Roy, regius are INCREDIBLY strong for their size, so when I think about, that's totally plausible! I haven't had to combat any Ball males for about 4 years now, but I do remember them destroying the cages (back when I was using cages instead of rack systems). Crazy little buggers! LOL!

That's weird that the Kenyans don't combat. And I hazard that you of all people have enough specimens to come to some fairly hard conclusions. I mean, just having 2.1 animals where the males don't combat won't tell anyone anything. But with the amount of animals you've been through, its probably a part of the loveridgei (sp???) natural history. Neat. Wonder why? Evolutionary-wise that is.

I've had more rack bins knocked out by combating and courting Hondos than anything else.., but then they are big strong tiangulum.

I hear ya man! I haven't been working with Hondos more than a few seasons, but I have noticed that those things are as strong as steel! They are like normal colubrids on ROIDS!!! I can see them popping bins out of a rack for sure! Haven't had to combat a male yet, but I probably will this year. Law of averages, you know? More animals, more situations. I look forward to it! I imagine it to be like corn snake combat x 100 !!! LOL!

Cheers,

Jeff F. :D

JKUROSKI

12-29-03, 01:09 PM

Jeff, why is it that when people confront you about your husbandry you flip out. Obviously if that bulb can be broken it poses a risk to the animals. What happens when it breaks, and then the snake sticks it's head on the element inside...I don't care how hot it gets...there is 210V behind it regardless. And they can be laserateds by the broken glass as well. Poor husbandry in my oppinion.

Jeff_Favelle

12-29-03, 02:12 PM

Wow, interesting as to where I see you think I "flipped out". I think you and I must have two VERY different opinions on what "flipping out" is. Considering that I didn't even use a single exclamation mark, I hardly see that as a spaz. But to each his/her own. Formulate your own opinion, as you already have.

Combat was done with the lights off (why the heck would I combat two nocturnal animals during the day??) and I was right there (as always). The lights are on in the cage for exactly 5 hours a day, of which I am in the reptile room for all of those hours. Nothin can go wrong, as I am there. Not to mention, they come on from noon to 5pm, a time in which ALL my animals (except the Womas) are inactive. I have over 120 animals, and I pretty much know where every single one is its respective cage at any one time. Impossible for something to happen. Yeah the glass broke, but trust me when I say that a cage covering the bulb would have been torn off as well. These guys went ballistic and are both 7-footers. I was cleaning the cage today and they even broke the branch in the cage off at one end, exposing the screws that were holding it in. Now you're going to tell me not to have branches in there? Ok then...........

Poor husbandry in my oppinion.

Yeah thanx. But I've seen your opinion before. Next thing you're going to tell me is that its Coastals breeding in the picture.

Again, thanx for your opinion, but it wasn't the intent of the post. The intent of the post was to display extreme combat in Carpets is quite normal when compared with other snakes. But as Roy pointed out, its not so different in other species (Balls and Hondos) and I've had it hapen in Rainbows and Bci as well.

Scales Zoo

12-29-03, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
LOL, ok then. The bulb is a 15W light bulb and I can stick my damn eyeball on it and it wouldn't burn. Any other husbandry aspects of mine you'd like to comment on?

No thanks, not right now.

I've read your follow up posts stating the lights are only on when you are there - which is good. The intent of my post was to warn other people about the potential dangers of duplicating your set up for themselves - as they likely would not be able to babysit their snakes all of the time the light is on, I know I can't.

Looks like your better at giving jabs, than taking them.

Jeff, you are just too darn fun to bug!
:)
Ryan

Jeff_Favelle

12-29-03, 02:43 PM

I've read your follow up posts stating the lights are only on when you are there - which is good. The intent of my post was to warn other people about the potential dangers of duplicating your set up for themselves - as they likely would not be able to babysit their snakes all of the time the light is on, I know I can't

Totally bro! I wouldn't do it unless I was there. Heck, I even leave some of the Carpet cages open for 6-8 hours during the day in the summer! WIDE open! I take the sliding glass right out! But of course I would never do that unless I was there. I know they won't go anywhere, but why chance it right?

I hear ya about monkey see-monkey do. I get emails (as do you) everyday asking me about my setup, or how I keep this, etc etc and I just refer those people to care sheets. Unless its a specific answer, I don't feel comfortable having people copy my stuff. I have honed this operation for over a decade (like you guys) and it works for MY situation, for my reptile room(s), for my climate, for my purpose (breeding healthy animals - often and always). So I totally get your drift about how other people might see a pic of mine and interpret it that I use a 100W bulb to heat my Jungles, and its on 14h off 10h, etc etc. As they say, a picture is worth a 1000 words. But whether or not those 1000 words are an accurate representation of that they portray is a different story! LOL!!!

And hey, you never called me about that thing we were going to discuss. Don told me you sorted it out (sort of). I'm not sure I had any more to add, but I'll help any way I can.

Happy Holidays man. :cool:

ranmasatome

12-29-03, 02:44 PM

wow..okay chill guys...you're starting to act like the "coastals"...lol

boa

12-29-03, 03:36 PM

Jeff why would you combat 2 males when you have 2 females for each of the males?I do belive that those bulbs should have been removed before the combat correct me if i am wroung.

Zoe

12-29-03, 03:56 PM

Jeff why would you combat 2 males when you have 2 females for each of the males?
Combatting males can put them in the "mood" - if they think their females are at risk to be mated with by another male, combatting them can make them more eager to mate, themselves.

As for the bulb, they could have been removed, but with supervision I can't see how a problem other than a broken bulb could arrise. If the shards are removed immediately, the snakes can't be cut on them. Also, without the bulb, I would imagine it's hard to inside the cage.

Zoe

BoAddict

12-29-03, 03:57 PM

shawn you combat the males to get them in the mood so that they will breed
generally used for stubborn males.

boa

12-29-03, 04:04 PM

I can see combat for 2 males with only 1 female. i would not combat 2 males if i had 2 females i would cool both males for the breeding but then again i don't work with carpet pythons.

Zoe

12-29-03, 04:06 PM

Putting a male with two females won't make him more eager to breed. The point of combatting males is to make them horny. You can have a million females for one male, that doesn't mean that he'll want to mate with them. Combatting two males can increase your chances.

boa

12-29-03, 04:14 PM

I see i have never had to combat males just cool them and let them have fun for the season.

Scales Zoo

12-29-03, 04:14 PM

I pm'd you Jeff, you are very hard to get on the phone.

If most people don't know, the reason I am so paranoid about lighting, is 3 years ago I put out a fire that had started to engulf my house - because of a light in a cage that I was not watching (we were away for the day, if we had gotten back 3 minutes later, I would have lost the house).

Ryan

Jeff_Favelle

12-29-03, 09:09 PM

No worries Ryan. I was at the lumber yard today and post office and airport. I'm getting my cell phone activated so I'll float you that number when its ready. Don and I just had a quick chat about it.

Try me at home tomorrow between 5-7pm (pacific). I'll be around.

Jeff why would you combat 2 males when you have 2 females for each of the males?I do belive that those bulbs should have been removed before the combat correct me if i am wroung.

??? Why does having 2 females change whether or not I combat the males? LOL!! I combatted the males because one was not in the mood. The other was. They fought for 4 minutes and now are both breeding.

And I have a LOT more than 2 males and 2 females, LOL! I have 4 PAIRS locked up as we speak and I'm about to put the 5th pair together right now to see what happens. I also have 2 extra females that will be bred after the current females, as well as 2 females that are getting the year off, as well as 2 MORE females that "could" go this year, but I want to heat and feed a bit longer.

So I still have no idea what you mean by having 2.2 negates the need for combat. I could have 400 Jungles and if a male wasn't actively courting females, I would still combat for a few minutes.

retic

12-29-03, 10:51 PM

wow, i've learned alot reading your comments back and forth, thanks guys, by the way Jeff great snakes and pics

morph

12-30-03, 01:39 AM

So are those coastals or jungles I'm confused???:D

Scott

Zoe

12-30-03, 02:02 AM

they are jungles

Jeff_Favelle

12-30-03, 04:35 AM

by the way Jeff great snakes and pics

Thanx Retic! I can honestly say that I feel lucky just to work with them. If I hatch any eggs because of it, that's just a bonus. These things are soooo fun to have around!

Cheers bro! :D

Jeff_Favelle

12-30-03, 04:37 AM

Ha ha Zoe, Scott was kidding.

At least I hope he was, or NO BARK MULCH FOR HIM!!! Ha ha, "bark nazi"! :p

JKUROSKI

12-30-03, 11:46 AM

Jeff, you crack me up...must be nice to have that little jungle monopoly up there. With all the little peons at your beck and call. Too bad your stock will never be as nice as what we have down here. Quantity over quality...great motto!

Scott, you never did show me a pic of that animal in question. What's to hide? Beginning to doubt yourself? Or do you just think it's a jungle cause Jeff told you it was?

Ron

12-30-03, 12:50 PM

JKUROSKI,

Do you have a pic of what you consider a "Good Quality" Jungle? I'm very interested to see what you have in your collection.

morph

12-30-03, 02:19 PM

OK you know what kills me is that Jim you have never bred a morelia in your life yet you consider yourself the foremost expert on them. Yes I know you hatched some babies but that because you bought an ugly a** gravid female in which someone else did all the work. Oh and you did manage too kill them all except one too, congratulations on that at least I won't have too compete for sales with you and the amount of offspring you are able too keep alive. So keep your advice too yourself as reading alot of stuff on the internet doesn't make you an expert it makes you a copier of alot of false info.

PS

you have know idea the beautiful babies that female JUNGLE throws she is extremely old and has had alot of clutches females as they age and have clutches lose their brightness and they muddy abit. But this is something you wouldn't know unless you have bred females a bunch of times.

Later
Scott

Jeff_Favelle

12-30-03, 02:30 PM

...and the true Jkuroski shows what he's all about...... Took long enough.

I suppose we should all be following the Kuroski method of hatching Carpet eggs, which I believe from my earlier conversation with you was 1 baby out of 26 fertile eggs? Damn, that's husbandry I wanna copy!

Jeff_Favelle

12-30-03, 02:34 PM

And I don't have a Jungle monopoly at all. TONS are produced up here every year. Henry P., Don P., Annette, etc etc. Not just me. And Jungles aren't even what I'm focused on. Balls and Bci is my main concern. But oh well. Can't have a normal conversation about different husbandry methods without making it personal in the end. As always. :(

hip

12-30-03, 02:42 PM

Jeff your second last reply reminds me of some lyrics from a song I used to play back in the 80's "Lit up a smoke and did the talking with the back of his hand" "smack" Good to see you still have the edge we all know and love. I do envy all those Jungles you have you freek But I like your BRB's the best looking for any trades? or would you rather just have some of my bank roll instead? Did i mention I have beer? so we could have a few before we talk dollars.

Happy new Year

Hip

Oliverian

12-30-03, 03:04 PM

Crazy... I never knew they would be so violent when combatting. Heck, I didn't even know they DID combat. They look like awesome snakes.

Man, someone sounds jealous. Just because you aren't good with jungles doesn't mean you have to try and put down Jeffs.

And a happy new year to all!
-TammyR

Derrick

12-30-03, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by Oliverian
Crazy... I never knew they would be so violent when combatting. Heck, I didn't even know they DID combat.

you should see what happens when you combat 2 breeders.

hehe :D

morph

12-30-03, 04:39 PM

HAHA Derrick

The funniest thing about that is Kuroski isn't even a morelia BREEDER he's a buy a gravid snake kill all the eggs but one HATCHER.

Scott

JKUROSKI

12-30-03, 05:39 PM

Morph...you're on crack...where exactly did you get your info from? No, I am not a "breeder", but I have bred Morelia before. I purchased a breeder pair the year before last and bred them myself (they were pre-cooled though). If you would like to contact the seller to assure yourself that he didn't breed them first just ask! I admit, it was my first year breeding and I didn't have my incubation stuff right. I did loose them all but one. Did you breed pythons with a 100% hatch rate the first time? And last year I had humidity issues again, resulting in a total loss of my jungle clutch and most of my coastal clutch (and I bred those myself too). Oddly 9 out of 9 of my ball eggs hatched though (you guessed it bred those too). Oh and a clutch of atbs too. I think I have done pretty well for two years of keeping!!! What you have probably perfected over a decade, I will accomplish this year for sure.

PS I do know a good looking jungle when I see one, and Jeff's aren't that, plain and simple.

JKUROSKI

12-30-03, 05:44 PM

Originally posted by Ron
JKUROSKI,

Do you have a pic of what you consider a "Good Quality" Jungle? I'm very interested to see what you have in your collection.

I sold my breeders cause they were sub par. I will get some pics up of what I currently have. And I wasn't necessarily talking about things I have, just better stock down here in general.

Tim_Cranwill

12-30-03, 05:48 PM

And YOU'RE responsible for that, Jim? What are you even bragging about anyway? I think you're making yourself look pretty immature in my opinion. Pick your battles, buddy... ;)

JKUROSKI

12-30-03, 05:52 PM

I am not bragging about anything...where exactly did I say that my stuff was better than anyone elses?

marisa

12-30-03, 05:55 PM

"Jeff, you crack me up...must be nice to have that little jungle monopoly up there. With all the little peons at your beck and call. Too bad your stock will never be as nice as what we have down here. Quantity over quality...great motto!"

Right there.

Marisa

Tim_Cranwill

12-30-03, 05:56 PM

Yup, that's it.

Thanks Marisa! :D

JKUROSKI

12-30-03, 05:58 PM

I am an American, and was referring to the USA when I said "what we have down here".

Tim_Cranwill

12-30-03, 06:03 PM

I know that. That's why I said "<i>And YOU'RE responsible for that, Jim? What are you even bragging about anyway?</i>"

JKUROSKI

12-30-03, 07:12 PM

I am not bragging about anything...I am a little upset that when I ask for a picture of Scott's snake just to settle my own curiosity, he feels the need to be an ***. All I wanted to see was a full body shot. As for Jeff, he has done the same by originally stating that there is nothing wrong with his husbandry. Exposed bulbs are a bad idea...period. And his resulting replies were arrogant, hence my comment about him sitting on top his untouchable hill and his lack of quality in his snakes. Maybe if people would just be a little nicer this sort of thing would never happen.

morph

12-30-03, 07:33 PM

Well Jim I didn't post a pic because I don't feel it neccesary You looked at that pic and and said it looks coastal, there is nothing in that pic too lead me too believe coastal. Also I have not accomplished anything in this hobby but I don't pretend too be the master either and I never will. You say our stock sucks up here but have you ever seen Don Pattersons morelia far from suck my friend.

Later
Scott

JKUROSKI

12-30-03, 07:43 PM

I am not saying the stock up there sucks...I am saying that Jeff's snakes are about average compaired to what when have available in the US. Don's animals from what his website shows are above average, but not the best I've seen. What led me to my original comment about the jungle/coastal was that it appears to have an irregular neck pattern and reduced head pattern. It was just an observation, I wanted to see the pic to be able to support or displace my original thought.

Jeff_Favelle

12-30-03, 10:38 PM

Funny you should say that Don's are above average and mine are average (even though I have only posted pics of 6 and I have 14) because Don is a good friend of mine who lives down the street. I have known him for just about ever. Now where do you think my stock came from? LOL! Quite the EYE for snakes you have there. And I guess Henry Piourun and Scales Zoo have crappy stock as well, seeing as I cherry picked Jungles from them as well. And Lazik and Sipperly must have uggo JCP's too, as that's the originators of the stock.

Not sure why this post degraded to a contest on the quality of Jungles....oh wait...yes I do! The post involved the world famous Kuroski and his amazing 26 eggs to 1 egg in less than 30 days attitude!

I'm on the top of no hill. I breed snakes for crying out loud. Its not rocket science. Why people get so worked up us beyond me. I was talking to Chris Marshell on the phone yesterday about this. How people get so mad and jealous and worked up. Its weird. Dude, you didn't like me having a light bulb in my cage. Big deal. Move on. But no, then you had to comment on what YOU think the quality of my snakes is/are? What the heck is that? That might fly on Queensnake or your "forum", but not here. And thankfully so. If we were allowed to go around taking pot shots at what we think other people's snakes looked like, I'd hate to be a part of that website. Its a community here. I have no monopoly. Just a bunch of people that have become friends and look out for one another. I'd do the same for them if some guy who killed 25 Carpet eggs was flaming them.

I didn't feel like taking advice from an amateur, especially when I know people use the same setup for Womas, Blackheads, Chondros, Emmies, Angolans, and yes, Jungles. But their stock probably all sucks as well. Nothing like the great Kuroski produces......er.....anti-produces.. (is that a word?). You better phone the 19 people that bought Jungles from me in Canada, as well the 11 Jungles that went to Japan, and the 4 that went to Germany. I guess they bought them because they were "average". Ha ha, because I know I would buy an average snake 3,000 miles away over one down the street! LOL!

Later man. This post has officially become moot. Or in the immortal words of Ralphie "DEAD".

JKUROSKI

12-30-03, 11:25 PM

Oh I have seen a few of yours...the only one that is nice is your F1. F4 isn't bad as far a pattern and color, but has some serious tipping. Who did those come from? Thanks for rubbing the loss of the clutch in my face one more time...seems like you’re just as much of an *** as I am. Guess an opinion different from yours is obviously wrong.

Jeff_Favelle

12-31-03, 03:56 AM

F4 has serious tipping because its like 14 years old. I forgave it, as any snake that age can look however it wants in my book, as long as its healthy.

Oh I have seen a few of yours

I have a bit more than a "few", some of which have never been photographed yet. So judging my collection based on seeing 40% of my Jungles is quite laughable. But that's ok. It won't affect anything. When people from 2 other CONTINENTS view pictures of my animals and purchase them, I am not worried about some dude from Texas. Not by a long shot.

I only flame when flamed first. I never said you had below average animals, and I never said that my country's animals beat yours. Those were your words. I sank, but not quite to your level. When Tim C. and Marisa call someone out for acting inappropriately, then I know something is wrong. Those two people are two of the most level-headed humans I know. If they ever said I was acting like I jerk, I would believe them.

And Jim, this thread DEAD! No one is learning anything new about Jungle husbandry at this point. You've made your point that 15W bulbs are deadly weapons against Jungles (even though I temp-gunned them to only 84F, LOL!!). I made my point that I believe them to be a useful tool in my cages. And I prove that by producing a GANGLOAD of Jungles. Comment on the husbandry all you want. Please do. That's why these forums are here. For debating how to better keep our animals. But leave you're petty comments at the ranch on how you think I don't produce better Jungles than the United States of America. Especially when YOU don't contribute to that production. That, in my eyes, is bad netiquette. Telling people they have average breeding stock on a public forum? What purpose does that serve?? I don't feel bad about the egg comment I made at all. Normally I would. In fact, when it happened I gave you EXTENSIVE advice on how to correct it. You asked if Scott had 100% hatch rate his first time. I can't speak for Scott, but I know I did. With all three clutches that year! I seriously feel you have to TRY to kill a Jungle egg. They are bullet-proof. But again, I tried to help you.

I don't breed for anyone but myself. I think ALL animals are beautiful. And thank god, so do a lot of other people. Helps to keep me in business! I must thank you for the great advertisement here. If I had any animals left, they'd be sold like hotcakes. 5 emails and 3 PM's tonight alone! Should have thought of this earlier!!

My ugly Jungles:

http://members.shaw.ca/gallerya/pic1.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/gallerya/pic2.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/gallerya/pic3.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/gallerya/pic4.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/gallerya/pic5.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/gallerya/pic6.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/gallerya/pic7.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/gallerya/pic8.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/gallerya/pic9.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/gallerya/pic9a.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/gallerya/pic9b.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/gallerya/pic9c.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/gallerya/pic9d.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/gallerya/pic9e.jpg

Jungle of a different "colour" LOL!!

http://members.shaw.ca/gallerya/pic_ball.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/galleryb/snakes_banner_final.jpg (http://www.jefffavelle.com)

ranmasatome

12-31-03, 04:06 AM

err guys? i think this has gone on for long enough...after reading these post i for myself realize that no one likes to be belittled and have pot shots taken at them...especially in a public forum like that in front of everyone. i think even though the both of you think very differently...it doesn't give either one a right to say who is doing the definate "right" or "wrong" thing...and then add the sumg childish comment about the other person at the end. obviously we need to give others the leeway of doing things his/her way if it works for either of your methods. i don't believe that there is such a thing as "this is bad ...period". if i decided to use a bare heating element to heat my tank....it might seem wrong..but if i am the type of guy that has one tank and no life so i sit in front of it and stare at the heating element and the snake 24hrs a day...i dont think its that bad. In the end, i'm the one that looses out anyway and not you. of course this situation is just silly extreme to make a point...i'm sure no one really does it..lol.
As for comments about Canada having inferior stock to America...really Jim that was uncalled for....think about it...seriously speaking...WHO CARES!!! if Jeffs stock is "average" and selling well for him, then goodos to him...if you think its average..dont buy them...i'm sure he doesn't really care as long as they are selling somewhere else...i'm sure someone thinks they are great...if they are buying from him. Heck i'd even breed ugly snakes just cos i love them and this hobby so much...not everything is about how "nice" or "expensive" a certain stock is...although i have to admit the monetary gain is nice...but i choose to believe that most of us are in this hobby only because we have the love for it.
Seriously guys, chill out...

ranmasatome

12-31-03, 04:13 AM

woa Jeff...you posted at the same time i did..lol..what you doing up at 4 am in the morning???..lol

Jeff_Favelle

12-31-03, 04:39 AM

LOL, I just finished feeding and changing a few water dishes. Ha ha, but it's only 1am here (west coast). Lots of time left to do some web stuff, enter in all the data, answer emails...etc etc....

Take care bro, and thanx for the email!! Too kind! :D

Dom

12-31-03, 10:27 AM

Amazing lookers Jeff.. Those are the reasons I love jungles so much!

Especially the fact that my two breeder jungle look identically to the one in the green tupperware and the really nice banded on black one ..

Best of lick to u this season

JKUROSKI

12-31-03, 11:51 AM

The post may be dead, but I'm not done yet. Every single one of your posts portrays yourself as god's gift to snake breeding. Get down off your high horse and accept some simple criticism without having to say that I am wrong. My opinion is that unprotected bulbs are bad. If they work for you, great. You justified why and how you use them and that’s good. At least others won't follow your technique without knowing how you use it. It's not about who is wrong or right, it's about opinions. You started this whole thing with your page long reply to my original post and the jab about telling you they are coastals. You started this...I got mad and jabbed back. What I said was wrong, but you and Scott really upset me when you jabbed about the jungles. They are not bullet proof, and can easily be messed up with bad humidity or incubator malfunction. The point is that you are not the only one that breeds snakes, nor are you the only one entitled to an opinion. Just shut your fingers down for a little while and let others contribute.

Dani33

12-31-03, 12:00 PM

HOLY, those snakes are incredible Jeff!

foman

12-31-03, 01:35 PM

Very nice snakes Jeff. If I could I would buy a Jungle off of you in a heartbeat, but I THINK(?) I'm done til after the bun in the oven is ready.LOL
JKUROSKI- Cali alone has more people than all of Canada! Therefore it is obvious that in the U.S there would be alot more people that work with snakes. More people=more people working with snakes=more snakes =more to choose from=ability to choose nice offspring=nice future breeders=alot of nice offspring to make even nicer babies. One big never ending cycle. Btw I have seen alot of ug snakes on the american sites aswell. What you think is ug some1 might think it is beautiful. To Each His Own.
As for Jeff thinkin he is ALMIGHTY, Not true, he is good guy, nice to talk to,helpful and he would be the first guy i would ask if i needed some snake advice.

Oliverian

12-31-03, 02:01 PM

You started this...I got mad and jabbed back.

And yet... your first post was:
Jeff, why is it that when people confront you about your husbandry you flip out. Obviously if that bulb can be broken it poses a risk to the animals. What happens when it breaks, and then the snake sticks it's head on the element inside...I don't care how hot it gets...there is 210V behind it regardless. And they can be laserateds by the broken glass as well. Poor husbandry in my oppinion.

And it progresses from there.

But on a lighter note, Jeff, beautiful snakes! I love the first pic. And the females with eggs look sweet too.

-TammyR

Derrick

12-31-03, 02:37 PM

I usually only combat breeders for 15min. It was amusing at first but its getting pretty old.

JKUROSKI

12-31-03, 03:22 PM

TammyR

I am not going to continue to justify myself; obviously you will all support your friend Jeff anyway. That first post was a result of his "Anything else you would like to question about my husbandry?" comment to scaleszoo...who is his friend from what I gather from the latter posts. It's just seemed typical Jeff (arrogant)

marisa

12-31-03, 04:39 PM

"Just shut your fingers down for a little while and let others contribute."

O.k. I will. IMHO Unless you are the Jungle Carpet "king" of the world you had NO business coming on a Canadian forum and announcing that Canada's stock is far below the states. True or no, what sort of professional would say something like that? What sort of human with any manners would say something like that? None that I know or want to know.

Frankly I don't even know you, you don't know me, but that statement was one of the most juvenile, sad, silly things I have ever seen anyone post. "Our snakes are better than yours!" When you don't even seem to be a Jungle breeder yourself. That's more than rude to Canandians if you ask me. But what do I know. Maybe the forums you frequent that are based somewhere else tolerate people belittling others snakes because of a forum disagreement, but this one most certainly does not. Thank god. So maybe you'd be better suited slinging your mud around on queensnake. Here is we have a husbandry disagreement, it stays at that, it doesn't turn into a "your snakes are ugly and mine aren't" fight.

Well that's enough out of me, I am just about to go down to the Toronto Zoo and tell them how ugly their bears are.

Marisa

Tim_Cranwill

12-31-03, 04:54 PM

Marisa, you've never even bred bears. How can you make such statements!?!?!?? ;) :D

Stockwell

12-31-03, 05:41 PM

Don't you guys get it???...this whole thread has been cleaverly engineered and word-smithed, as a master work of symbolism to demonstrate the internal anx and torment that occurs when two males combat.. and why it works on raising testosterone levels.

Now that they've busted each others bulbs they're off
getting laid now!! Lets hope they're using protection LOL

Happy Newyear everyone!!

JKUROSKI

12-31-03, 05:44 PM

Originally posted by marisa
"Just shut your fingers down for a little while and let others contribute."

O.k. I will. IMHO Unless you are the Jungle Carpet "king" of the world you had NO business coming on a Canadian forum and announcing that Canada's stock is far below the states. True or no, what sort of professional would say something like that? What sort of human with any manners would say something like that? None that I know or want to know.

Frankly I don't even know you, you don't know me, but that statement was one of the most juvenile, sad, silly things I have ever seen anyone post. "Our snakes are better than yours!" When you don't even seem to be a Jungle breeder yourself. That's more than rude to Canandians if you ask me. But what do I know. Maybe the forums you frequent that are based somewhere else tolerate people belittling others snakes because of a forum disagreement, but this one most certainly does not. Thank god. So maybe you'd be better suited slinging your mud around on queensnake. Here is we have a husbandry disagreement, it stays at that, it doesn't turn into a "your snakes are ugly and mine aren't" fight.

Well that's enough out of me, I am just about to go down to the Toronto Zoo and tell them how ugly their bears are.

Marisa

Guess you missed where I said it was wrong of me to say those things and that they came out of anger from being jabbed.

And when I said contribute, I was talking about the topic not this dead argument...

Cranwell your too funny...