Giving young Leos enough Vitamins?

[Slannesh]

Been doing some research on the net and am finding a lot of conflicting information

Just have a question for those of you who are knowledgeable about leos.

Currently I am feeding them crickets of appropriate size that are gut loaded with both Flukers Calcium Fortified Cricket Quencher and Flukers High-Calcium Cricket feed and the occasional bit of vegetable from around the house (Zuchini, carrots)

In addition I am dusting the crickets, currently at every feeding because they are both young juvies (both born in August of this year) with ZooMed Reptivite reptile vitamins.

What i'm wondering is if this is a sufficent level of Calcium and D3 for my Leos? I know a lot of people add a Calcium/D3 tray for the geckos to lick but i'm concerned about giving them too much if all three of the other suppliments I use already have Calcium in them and the vitamins have both calcium and D3.

Any advice?

Slan

[Tim and Julie B]

Hi Slan,

Great question by the way!:D I have been breeding leos for several years now and have always been concerned over the conflicting practices used by the thousands of reptile breeders throughout the world. Even published methods differ so greatly that it's almost more confusing to read up on proper husbandry and diet. You almost need to have a full library to get enough "common" information to know what is good or bad!:confused:

Thankfully most everyone here is cautious enough to do a lot of research before buying animals, and the exensive group of knowlegable breeders here on ssnakess is more than eager to share their experiences. So here goes my point of view on your question.

While I think that commercial insect gutloads can be beneficial I truly believe that providing them with the things you find at home is easier and cheaper. The added bonus is that you know exactly what you are using and can vary it so that your reptiles have the best advantages of a well balanced feeder insect. It is also important to vary the insects themselves.

Too much calcium can be as harmful as too little, but knowing just how much to use can be hard to determine. Also, you need to take into consideration the fact that females need more calcium, more often, throughout the breeding season. Even females not placed with males will lay eggs (infertile of course). Without proper supplementation the eggs will be very soft and can cause egg-binding, which in turn can lead to death.

Another factor is the role that D3 plays in the absorption of calcium in almost every reptile, whether they are getting it from natural sunlight/reptile lights or from the foods they consume. Leos, being nocturnal, require food sources that provide them with the necessary D3. I believe that it is possible to get D3 from the liver of feeder rodents (pinkies in the case of leos), but the leo has to convert it into a usable form. There's almost no point as they shouldn't eat them often enough for this to be of any use, so we turn to commercial substitues most often found in the calcium supplements themselves.

So here's what I do (now that I've rambled, hope you don't mind). I gut load crickets and mealworms using sliced carrots, apples, orange peels(all the really good stuff is in the pith-white part attached to peel), cucumber,zucchini, romaine lettuce(most nutritional lettuce I think), grape seeds(let them sit out a week to dry then grind them in a coffee grinder and add to fish flakes, a 1/4 tsp. is all you need),small amounts of broccoli stems, high-quality flake fish food(as mentioned), bran, oats(not quick cooking or instant), potato flakes, cornmeal, dry whole-grain cereals, and high-quality dry dog/cat foods(small amounts). I choose 2-3 of the "wet" foods and 2-3 of the "dry" foods and place them in seperate shallow containers(dry in one, wet in another) inside the feeder insect conatiners. I allow them to consume these items for 12-24 hours before offering the insects to my reptiles. I dust the insects once a week with a multi-vitamin supplement(I just switched to miner-all, but love Fluker's and Herptavite too) and provide all of the leos with a shallow dish of calcium/D3 at all times. They are very good at knowing whether or not they need it, and I do not find that they will over-consume calcium. For those leos that don't use the dishes of calcium/D3 as often(all will use it to some extent) I dust their insects once a week with the calcium/D3. I also give them silkworms and the occassional wax worm as well as pinkies, dipped lightly in calcium/D3, to the males once every month and twice a month to breeding females.

So far I have never experienced a calcium deficiency or excess calcium consumption. My leos grow quickly and remain very healthy, active and alert. They don't get lazy or refuse to hunt for food and stay that way into adulthood. My females always lay turgid white eggs and none have ever been egg-bound. The babies hatch strong and healthy as a result and take food very eagerly.

I hope this is usefull information to you (although I did run on:D) and I wish you the best of luck with your leos. They are amazing pets and such a joy to work with. If you ever decide to breed them it is fun, easy and so rewarding! And again, great question,

Julie B:D

[Emily-Fisher]

Wow Julie, although I can't answer Slan's question, I find that your post that you just made is unbelievable!! I just learned so much on gutloading crix from that one post that you made! Thanks! I will definately start using your method next time I buy crickets! I basically gutload 'em with apple, potato, and carrots and then dust the crickets but your method sounds much better. Thanks for the amazing post!

[Tim and Julie B]

Thank-you Emily:D I have spent quite some time trying new things and came to the conclusion that this was working far better than anything else. I know that there are others out there with more to add, and I am eager to read about them!

Julie

[Slannesh]

Exactly what I was looking for.. Going to make some adjustments to what i've been doing then I think. Thanks very much.