A little advice is welcome

[Gollum]

I'm new to snakes, but always wanted to have some... Finally convinced those parents of mine. I'd like advice about waht kinda of species i should get consider im a beginner. I kinda like the arboricals ones.... I have a 36" x 18" x 60" free space for a cage for the moment. So i'd like some advice plz.

[snakehunter]

balls are a good snake, dont move fast, docile, and are great all around snakes, except for their being notorious for going off feed for no obvious reason. or what about a corn theyre pretty cool, and come in many morphs

[Gollum]

yeah true, but dont balls and corns need more ground space , cuz i really have a lot more height available. Are arborical snakes quite docile ?

[BurmBaroness]

Most arboreals are pretty nippy. Also, you cannot handle arboreals as much as you can the more common snakes for beginners. I would suggest you get a 20L and a corn snake as a beginner. Ball pythons for some reason always get labelled a beginner snake, which they are NOT.

[Gollum]

20L isnt that a little small , you sure you ddint mean 20gallon ? Yeah thx, ill still ask around for arboricals :)

[BurmBaroness]

A 20L is a 20 gallon, only longer instead of taller.

[Burm41]

Yea i would go on getting a ball python or corn... but keep ur other tank (the taller one) and as you get better with ur snake you can get a arborical later on but wouldnt get one as a first snake...

[RepTylE]

The added height of the tank could be a plus in that it could help prevent escapes. A corn would be my suggestion.

[jay76]

Help prevent escapes? LOL! I'd better tell my king he's not supposed to be able to climb the corner of the tank and rest along the underside of the lid ;)

A king snake would be a good choice too, if you can wait out the musking period

[ReptiZone]

I wold actualy sujest buying a book on bothe species it will be the best $40 - $50 spent in you life I swear that way you will have a general knowledge of both species that way you can pic one andthen we can fill in the blanks for ya it is way easier that way trust me.

cause trust em you dont wana get a corn and realise a ball is more for you or 2 weeks later see that a rosie boa is way cooler then both the first herp you buy realy is a reflection self it is waht you want not what we say would be good for you. My first boa was a amason tree if you dont mind being biten get a tree snake but be warnd that they are not a goog starter snake. have fun reading it is the best and one of the funnest parts your imguination realy runs away with you when you see all the options out there as a first snake.

[Gollum]

ok thx peeps, im gonna go be checking out individuals in a couple days...

[daver676]

I wouldn't recommend a ball as a first snake. I'd go with a corn snake as well.

Dave

[Gollum]

Ok , anyways, whats youre fav snake ? why ?
Just curious

[BoidKeeper]

Hog Island Boa, because they have all the feature I love about Boas with out the size. Nicer colours too!
Cheers,
Trevor

[Beardonicus]

A ball python is an awesome first snake- IF you know what you're getting. A CBB healthy well started ball will do just fine. They can go off feed for no reason sometimes, but this is perfectly normal and if you can handle that, you'll be fine!

A corn is another good suggestion. If you wanted something more arboreal you could get either an Irian Jaya Carpet python or a Jungle Carpet python. Just do lots of research and make the decsion that fits you the best! Good luck!

[Kyle Walkinshaw]

My Favorite snakes are the Jungle Carpet Python and Brazilian Raibow Boa. The boa because of the breathtaking colours and pattern, they are a little more difficult to keep, so that keeps things from getting boring and they get big without getting to a "giant" size. The python isn't quite as difficult to keep but I find them very interesting in the way they move and how they always seem very alert, they also have great colours if you get nice ones. With both those snakes, they are very nippy as juvi's so they keep you alert aswell and are always testing your reflexes:)

Cheers, Kyle~

[Kappa]

Ball Python, very docile, dont get huge and amazing colors.

[snakehunter]

hey, arent corns arboreal, cause their relative the black rat is highly arboreal, and there is alot of common ground between the two.

[Beardonicus]

lol, corns aren't arboreal and I don't think any of the North American species are either (including black rats).

[Gollum]

beardonicus, how big do irian jayas and jungle carpet get ? how handalable ? how hard to house ? ill do research, but if u could just tell me that'd be cool :)

[Invictus]

Corns are classed as semi-arboreal, because they are known to spend a good deal of time climbing looking for birds to munch on.

I DO NOT recommend a ball python as a starter snake. I would recommend a BCI before a BP. Corns are the ideal starters for several reasons:

1) Usually feeding machines.
2) Small size
3) Most docile snake alive next to a kenyan
4) No specialized humidity requirements
5) Perfect sheds every time even at low humidity (this has been my experience anyway)
6) There is no #6
7) Can adjust very quickly to any environment, and live long (25 years for some long-lived specimens.)

Need I say more? If not a Corn for your first snake, assuming you're more into Boids, I don't recommend a Hog Isle either. Most of them are foul tempered, bitey, and skittish. I'd go with a Central American BCI or the like. Same small size, more likely to be tame. If not a C.A. BCI, I'd go with:

- Kenyan Sand Boa
- Rosey Boa
- Spotted Python
- Childrens Python
- MALE Columbian BCI

That's my $0.02. :)

[GI Joe]

Invictus, Why not BP's?

[Gollum]

I try to follow the abreviations but i cant quite get the BCI and CA ... And , do you not advise carpet ?

[Steele]

read the books and pick what you want. my brb eats like a gtp and likes to clime and is not botherd by being handled

[Beardonicus]

Irian Jayas usually get 4-6 feet and are tame once out of the nippy young stage.......Jungles get slightly larger and are not always as tame. They are very easy to care for as long as you know what you're doing.

[ReptiZone]

If I am not mistaken jungels are the smales of the carpets but I might be wrong.

C.A means central american

And a BCI is a boa constrictor Imperator.

MY fave snake is a retic not a beginer snake but I still love them.
they simply look awsome and I love there impresionable size.

[MontyPython]

Invictus, I don't see why Ball Pythons are not good starter snakes, they require very little care, they sleep most if not all of the day. They can survive even with some minor husbandry mistakes. The only reason I see why they would not be considered a beginner snake is that they can go off feed during the colder months, but that is what they do! Yes it is probably frustrating to the owner, but if the owner did their research on the snake before they got it, they should know that these snakes will go months without eating and be perfectly fine...

[Beardonicus]

I agree with Monty.......balls are perfect beginner snakes IF you get a good one-CBB AND you know of their feeding habits.

Oh, and BTW-Jungles are nt the smallest carpets, that title definitely belongs to Irian Jayas.

[Invictus]

The reason why I don't recommend BPs as beginner snakes is simple: Look at the number of posts in the BP forum. A species that is "so easy to care for" should NOT have so many questions being asked, especially when the most common question is "Why won't my BP eat?"

It can be a frustrating experience, and if you end up having to force feed a BP, you should know what the hell you are doing. Because of their finnicky feeding habits, I don't recommend them. I'm not saying they should be avoided, it's just that there are several species that I would say make WAY better starters.

[MontyPython]

Actually, most of the posts in the ball python forum are pics of Balls or questions about the morphs... At least from what I have seen...

[Beardonicus]

I think that the only reason questions like that are asked so often is because balls are such a common snake and are often sold under less-than-ideal circumstances. When properly cared for by a keeper who knows the road at least somewhat, they are insanely easy to deal with. I also don't think force feeding should even be an issue, as we all know balls are designed to go for MONTHS without food with no subsequent harm to the snake. Just my opinion.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Keeping a Ball Python alive is a far cry from keeping it happy and healthy. People are confusing the fact that Balls are damn near impossible kill with them being easy to keep properly. This couldn't be further from the truth. If you are getting a snake for the VERY FIRST time, get a corn. Its just the reality. Invictus is right.

[ReptiZone]

you got that right jeff! I Talk to ppl all the time about there First snake and when they say they got a Ball python I tell them right there and then who ever told you they were easy to keep lied to you. Yes they do go off feed some times and it is natural for them to do so but you need to calculate when the last time it ate how much did it eat B4 it went off feed and what time of year it is.

This may sound weird to you but ball pythons can go off feed in the winter because they are gone breed or go to sleep for the season If I am not mistaken. Then they can restart eating just like that like nothing ever happend.

But then there is the fack that some ppl dont do exatly every thing to the letter for what they need to be done. ppl may say they are forgiving but they are not. if forgiving means they don't get upset and bite you when you scrue up well then ya of cours they will look forgiving.

But to me forgiving is having a snake that eats under all newbies conditions not to insult any one but a newbie is not alwase the most acurat person when it comes to temps and humidity with good reason it takes at least a good year of every day cage servasing to get the grasp of just how much you need to spray to get the humidity right and to get that it takes tryal and error I am sure some ppl here can tell just how many good sprays it takes each morning to get there cage up and runing in the morning they only know that simply becaus they have lernt in the past what gives too much and what dosent give enugh.

But you dont stick a ball python in a cage to learn all thows things cause the next thing you know it goes off feed in the midel of the sumer and ppl start to say it is all normal when in reality it is stresed out of its mind and when that hapends the animals can stay off feed for a good year or worst till its death. So force feeding now becomes the last option and if you have no clue how to do it you look real good then, and find a vet that will do it is not alwase a easy task. I might just be too much of an extream herper but I own 3 retic's and they are easyer to satisfy then my ball pythons(note: do not get a retic).

so I would get a corn and make it thrive and not get a ball just to make it live.

[Beardonicus]

Guys, there is an exception to every rule.....my first snake was a Ball python and he has been the perfect snake.......no health problems, eats whatever I put in front of him. He is a CBB that I bought as a baby last year and has never given me a single bit of trouble. I don't think I'm 'just keeping him alive'.......he is very healthy and happy in my opinion.

[ReptiZone]

Well you dont seem like a person that is new to the reptile hobby but you do look like you dont fully under stand Ball Pythons. not to be insulting. you say you got a ball python as your first good for you I am glad it all worked out for you.

I have owned 20 ball pythons on several difrent ocasion I allwas ahd to see becaus I has not stable when I was younger. But that is not the point here.

I presently own 1.1 and my Male is on a feeding fast right now and has ben all sumer (that is when I baught him) he has not lost alot of weight YET I will keep trying all winter but I am almost 100% sure that that will not work so he will probebly only start next sumer as long as he is not stressed at all from now till then now 2 monts in to the winter monts if he dos not at I will have to force feed him against all of my own advice but desprit times need desprit mesures.

And Mr favelle here is a breeder of high end Ball Pythons and when the time comes I will be asking him if I may have mised any feeding tricks that could make the dramatic turn around.
WHY. becaus he is one of the top ppl on this site and any info from him like gold to me as well as a few other ppl on sSnakeSs.com.

we are saying they are not good beguiner snake for good reason you may have never seen thows reasons but that dosent mean they dont exist and the last thing I wana see is a newbie with all the headachs that come with a problem feeder ball python.

Marc Doiron

[BurmBaroness]

OK, just to clarify a few things. Beardonicus, so you had a ball python for your first snake and it was all good? That's GREAT, cause you are one of the few. I have had many ball pythons, but I refrained from acquiring even ONE until I had some experience keeping different types of other snakes. They stress out VERy easily. Most common problem I see with new people owning BP's are husbandry issues, feeding issues, and shedding issues.

Husbandry issues-Yes, you can screw up husbandry, and the snake may seem "forgiving", until it decides that it is too cold to digest food and stops eating. Or it's too hot, which rarely ever happens, as most people don't keep their BP's warm enough.

Feeding issues-Feeding issues are the number 1 reason I never recommend BP's as first snakes. The BP goes on a fast, usually in the fall, for breeding. IMO, any OTHER time it stops eating, there is a problem with the husbandry. Too hot, too cold, kept in too high traffic area, too big of an enclosure, humidity off, etc. So what then? They find a "reptile" vet who proceeds to tell them that the snake MUST be force-fed, even tho it hasn't lost any weight, the vet knows NOTHING of the conditions the snake is kept in, etc. So the snake is force fed, causing a great amount of stress to the snake. And how many times will it need to be force-fed? Why, until it decides to eat on it's own! Meanwhile, nothing is ebing done about WHY the BP went off feed to start with. Force-feeding is a LASt resort, used only when ALL other potential problems have been addressed, and the snake is losing a good deal of weight.

Shedding issues-this goes back to husbandry. Too low huumidity, and you will practically have to shed the entire snake yourself. However, you don't want so much humidity that there is moisture inside the enclosure either. Lots of ?'s about bad sheds in the Python Regius forum, go check them out. Even more ?'s about feeding issues.

I love my BP's, they are awesome snakes. But not just anyone should own them, and certainly not for a first snake. Get something else to start with, practice good husbandry, good feeding schedules, and read all you can about BP's. Then, after you have some experience, you can think about owning a BP.

I'm not knocking any people who owned BP's as a first snake, I'm just saying there are lots of others to choose from, that will not stress out if you screw up, or stress YOU out.

[KingFfaj]

although this is one of the best places in the world to get info from, i would not recomend a bp as a first snake. There is a shop near me that has one, and a friend went to inquire how much it was, the shop told him not to buy it and pointed him in the direction of colubrids which i thought was good of them. Later i went to check on this bp and when i saw it i was horrified as the ppl owning the shop had it in terrible condishions, it was very dry, no hiding places, very skinney, bad substrate and they said it has not been eating for months.:( I was temted to buy the poor little guy myself just to give him a better chance. But the worst thing woz, that i didnt feel obliged to give them advise or suggestions, as it wa a familly buisness and they had diffenitly bred reptiles befor:(

[lilyskip]

My first snake was Huxley the bp. I knew about the feeding problems going into it, and when he skipped a meal, I didn't freak out and force feed or anything. I bought him CBB, he's got plenty of hides, good temps, clean water...the biggest problem I'm having is deciding if he's ready for a small adult rat yet (I've got three adult mice and a rat in the freezer, so he'll probably get the rat after he's had the rest of the mice). But if he doesn't take it, I know the techniques to try to make it work.

Balls can be wonderful beginner snakes as long as you do your research and are ready for the problems. Again, I never knew a single person who owned a snake (my family hates them), but I did ridonkulous amounts of research (at least 90 hours, and counting), and Hux is doing great. The key is being a responsible reptile owner and knowing how to take care of your snake.

[Invictus]

Again, I want to emphasize here that I don't think people should necessarily avoid getting a BP as a first snake, but I think there are much much better choices. I'm sure there are a lot of Huxley's on here who are happy and healthy because their owners took the time to make things right BEFORE they went wrong.

[Gollum]

well thx everyone but im probably getting a corn or a BCI..
i've ask the breeder a lot and thats what choices ive ended up with.

[rwg]

I think there's two kinds of first snakes. There's the first snake for someone who is going to do his/her research first, and is going to be prepared to do what is needed. BP seems reasonable for this person.

Then there's the person who doesn't have the support of this community, and only knows what the pet store clerk told them. For this person, a corn snake will probably work out best. Too bad these people dont come here for advice.

rg

[Beardonicus]

I agree that there are safer choices for a first snake than a BP, but if someone knows what to expect, then why not get one? I also think some of you should learn basic grammar and spelling before you tell me I 'don't know blah blah blah.' Just my opinion.....I was not saying BPs are the best starter snake, just sharing MY experience. Personally I think there is not set "best beginner" snake......if the person is ready and does all the things necessary, I don't think it matters what snake they get, as long as they are prepared to care for that animal in the most appropriate way.

[GeminiDragon]

Hello everyone, this is my first time to this board but I already like all the wonderful info here, I'm very interested in raising snakes and this board looks like the right place to hang out.

My main questions are directly dealing with this discussion, Ball Python vs. Other snake for a begginer. First off let me say that I have kept Green Iguanas in the past and I'm aware of humidity, heating, lighting, parasites and the like. The last GI I had was a robust eater but on occasion would stop eating for three weeks or more, so I am aware of how frustrating it can be having to worry about your animal not eating.
I really like ball pythons but was wondering if there were any comments on a rainbow boa, or maybe a red-tailed as a first snake, I'd really like to get a boa but was wondering what everyone here thought.

Over the years I have made quite a collection of cages and boxes, but I think for a snake I'll go the RubberMaid way. I've seen some great pictures posted here to spur my ideas even further.

I'm sure I'll have a billion more questions, so I can't wait to hear back from you guys ((and gals too))

Thanks,
Gemini

[Gollum]

well well i fell for a king snake ... an hybrid normal-linear. I forgot to sex it ( i know ... ) but since i have to go back in a week i'll do it ... thx everyone one for giving some adivce.... though i didnt get a corn...

[Invictus]

Welcome to the site, GeminiDragon. As for a BCI for the first snake, I say go for it, but get a MALE. Females can get really huge and are quite a handful when they are fully grown. A rainbow boa is a little harder to care for because of environmental requirements - but if you have the right environment, they are a great species. I have 2 columbian rainbows, and I love them to death.

[GeminiDragon]

Thanks Invictus,
I've been reading about red-tails and definately agree I'll be getting a male. As much as I really want to get one soon, I want to make sure I've got the proper setup. Correct me if I'm wrong but for the first year or so a RubberMaid setup would be okay, I'm still having a hard time trying to factor the humidity requirements, 70% or so is right for a red-tailed boa?

I am most definately going to prepare everything and get the reqiurement right before buying a snake, I figure I'll set everything up and monitor it for two or three weeks just to make sure the environment stays stable.

Is it true it's a good practice to remove a snake to a different enclosure before feeding time? I think I read that one a post here, something about it lowering the chance of getting bitten everytime you put your hand in the enclosure to clean or handle the snake.

If that's the case could I setup a smaller Rubbermaid with similair heating and humidity just for feeding?

Thanks,

Gemini

[ReptiZone]

I belive you are on the road to victory here you did your reserch you are gona set up a Rubermaid and monitor it B4 buying the snake a verry good practice I might add.

you will see that when you go and buy your Rubremaid that they come in a great deal of sizes. If I were you I would get the smallest Rubermaid just make sure you can fit a rock a water dish and a hide box with a news paper substrate. Ther reason I am saying the smalest is it just to quarentine your snake for 2 to 6 monts during that perioud you can go all out and buy a biger Rubermaid with reptile bark for the new substrat with a few branches and some nice rocks and a nice hide well you get the idea.

heating I was totaly against UTH B4 but I have given it a try on my BCI'S and it seam to be working like magic so you can swing in the direction also if you like.

I know I should be slaping my self for this but I realy dont know what my humidity in my cage is right now caousr I need to put some better guages in but all my animals have a full shed so I must be doing somthing right( the guages are now an my to do list) but 70% souds verry resonable.

Now consedering you have had some GI you know how to get into a routine for spraying and moniyoring heat and all the good stuff so if you wanted to sway twords the Ball python road I am sure you would do fine.

P.S Congradulation golum for geting your new king snake it may not be a corn but it is still a colubrid and that is all that realy matters. have fun with him/her.

[GeminiDragon]

Thamks for the info, I made a trip to Home Depot last night and bought a 60 quart RubberMaid with locking top & a 18'' light fixture to install for daytime light cycle. I also got a digital thermometer that has a humidity reading on it and a 10 ft. probe.

I have saved over from other enclosures a human heat pad that I bought at Walmart, however it isn't very large so I think I'll get a Dragon's Lair heat mat from Big Apple Herp in N.Y.

Also I think I'll use indoor/outdoor carpet for the RubberMaid, but was wondering if there is any danger to a snake by using this?
How should I initially clean it before I use it?? Most carpets do have funky chemicals and I don't want to create an environment that isn't healthy.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

GeminiDragon