Just wondeing (Little survy....)

[Simon]

Just wondering.

I will be having some Lavender corns snakes (Rich Zuchowski line) for sale next year.

Is there anyone out there that is interested in getting a few?

I will be asking for 500 dollars for males. Females 750. (I might hav hets too but then have to see what happens and then I will determine the price for these later on.

Also I will might have some Orange Candy Cane Corn (Kathy Love line) snakes for sale too.

Asking for $200 for a male and $300 for a female.

Okeetees (Kathy Loves Line)
$60 for a male and $70 for a female.

Will also have others but will update this list later.....

I really want to know if anyone is interested in getting some of these super nice looking snakes from the US blood line.

Thanks!

[gunnerslakeshor]

Simon
Now look you cant buy everyone,s snakes for $20 then ask extreme prices for your own man it just dont look right ya know. lol
Phil

[Simon]

Phil,
Yes I totally understand what you are talking about. But if you come to think about it. There is basically less than a few people in Canada that has these lines. The lavenders and candy cane corns are considered rare in the US and in Canada even worse. From what I know of right now, there are basically 13 lavenders in Canada. I have 4 of them, Ryan in Ontario has 2 of them and some in the rest of Canada. I will be also adding in a pair of adults lavs to my collection very soon. The main reason why I am asking for this price is because they are worth every single penny. If you don't believe in me, you can always go to

http://www.serpenco.com/cultivars/lavender.html

to see a pic of a lavener corn snake.

for Kathy's Okeetee and Candy Cane, you can go to

http://www.corn-utopia.com/Corn%20Utopia%20on%20the%20Web/Photo%20&%20Image%20Stockpile%20-%20CornUtopia/OKEETEE%20collage%20-%20CAPTION.jpg

and

http://www.corn-utopia.com/Corn%20Utopia%20on%20the%20Web/Photo%20&%20Image%20Stockpile%20-%20CornUtopia/CANDYCANE%20-%20CAPTIONS.jpg

for a pic of an okeetee and candy cane corn snake.

You might not trust me right now, but if you should believe in Kathy and Rich from the US. I have gotten all these bloodlines from them. If you need any references, I will be more than happy to provide them.

Since you think that this price is high, then what prices of these were you thinking of?

I have seen normal looking corn snakes that said that it might be a possible het for lavenders these were going for more than 280 Canadian.....and I was already at a reptile expo.

[gunnerslakeshor]

Simon
you dont have to justify anything to me i just made an observation is all to me it looked kinda odd yaknow.
If you can sell them at a profit great for you .
Phil

[Simon]

I know......
but it's just that it looks like I was ripping people off. These guys are very hard to find and people don't have much. As demand and supply goes, that is why these guys are worth so much.

Anyone else out there that thinks this is a way too high of a price?

[CornBall]

Simon,

I am sorry but those prices are TOOOOOO HIGH!!

My lavenders will be most likely able to breed this season, but those prices are just ludacris, I will also have double het for opal, and possibly triple het for amel, lav, anery A.

I still am not sure on pricing but there is NO WAY I will sell lavs for that high, sorry I'm not in it for the money, that's just a bonus. I was thinking 300 for females, and 250 for males, with pairs going for 500. I have even thought of 250 each male or female and pairs for 450.

I WOULD NEVER think 750 for a female or 500 for a male that's nuts, especially seeing as I got my pair for 400 Canadian.

I don't know what hets would be but there won't be many females available so they wil be alittle higher than male hets.

If your interested in maybe trading a pair of lavenders (hatchlings) when they hatch to get different blood lines. I have seen your pics and yours look very different from my pair. it would be interesting to see the different colouring. My pair show much of that pink/orange colouring in between the saddles, my male is really light to, looks like a hypo lavender.

the 200-300 for candy canes is brutal, all a candy cane is is an albino miami, that possibly was line bread in certain cases to get the colour morph that it is now. I wouldn't sell thosefor more than 100 for males and 150 females, and I still think that is alittle high.

sorry if i offended you in any way, but those prices are too high to me.

-Ryan

[Simon]

Ryan,

Don't worry at all. I am not offened in anyway. I was asking for something like this. I really liked your comment and pricing. The main reason why I asked was to see if anyone out there thinks that the price is too high.

I need to know before I can make up the price. I think that next year the lavenders will be out. I guess that you and me will be the only two that will be selling these snakes in Ontario Canada.
I was deciding the price for these so I had to ask.

As for the candy canes. I wouldn't think that the price is too high. As you can see on Don Soderburg's homepage, he sells his orange candy canes for 150 US each....that is around 240 Canadian. The reason why I was asking so much for these is because of the shipping cost that it costed me to get them up here. So around 200-300 isn't that much....
I will have lines from Rich, Don and Kathy. And these animals are really the top candy canes!

[Jeff_Favelle]

Why sell yourself short and devalue your animals? Get as much as you can for them. Then maybe people will take a little better care for them. If you treat and sell them as disposeable pets, does it not stand to reason that that's all they'll become?

[CornBall]

Yes I see that it probally cost you an arm and a leg for shipping but instead of getting them sent right to Canada, why not cross the border and pick them up at an airport. The cost on gas is no where near the price of shipping.
the candy canes are very good looking BUT on Rich's site you can get them for 50 US (about 75 Canadian) and with all corns each animal varies from one to another and your candy canes (line bread amel miamis)you could have yellow start creeping up around the saddles. I'm not saying yours have that but it could happen, hey you never know what these guys will do next.
Mike Vince is selling candy canes for 45 Canadian, I don't know where he got his stock from but thats one heck of a deal if you ask me.
Don's site is the only one out of Rich, Kathy, and himself that portrays his as orange candy canes, though Rich's look just as nice for 1/3 the price. Kathy's are alittle higher at 55 US and her best looking ones still only 75 US, that's still a minimum of 1/2 the price for corns still coming from the top 3 corn breeders in the world.
so I see that is high priced.

-Ryan

[Simon]

Well yes I know that shipping it to the US airport and picking them up there would be cheaper....but then first of all....I don't have car, secondly, I can't just go the US and come back.....I don't have the time for it.....
I am feeding my guys everyday now....Right now I have around 90+ snakes in my house waiting for their turn to be feed....and with next year's hatchlings....I'll be over run by these snakes.....so even less time to travel......

The price might be high...but then compared to the candy canes that I see here, are no where near as pretty as the ones from the US.....and besides from what I have right now, none of them have developed any signs of yellow. Rich mainly produces Red Candy canes....he doesn't want to get into Orange Candy canes. So in order to get orange candy canes, either Kathy or Don is a good source. Kathy's line MIGHT have emory blood line in it since she did purchase a snake that MIGHT have emory blood line in it and bred it to a candy cane which did actually make her orange colored candy cane better. But then because I personally don't like hybrds....so yes I might sell Kathy's line of candy cane cheaper. But Don's line is pure. The reason why I said that is because he showed me a pic of his orange and red candy cane breeding and the resulting hatchlings didn't have a sign of emory blood in it at all.

That was the reason why Don had his orange candy canes for a higher price compared to Rich and Kathy.

That is the main difference......and I have 4 candy canes from Don, 2 from Kathy, and 1 from Rich....and trust me...shipping from them....isn't fun....it's a lot of work and LOTS of MONEY!!! The price that I am going for right now is can only cover a little part of my shipping cost.....not even talking about the animal itself yet....

and I would totally think that Jeff_Favelle's point of view is right.
In order for human beings to understand and value these animals is to either make them pay. Selling them at a higher price means that these are rare animals (well in terms of Canada). In order to make people pay more attention and more care to these animals is to make them pay a higher price. I mean for a beginner....would they want to pay something like 400 dollars for a lavender and they don't know how to take care of it....and it dies.....no right? So beginners would start seaching for more information about these animals and take better care of it. If they are not beginners then they will know how to value these rare animals and how hard it is for them to get into Canada. So I woudl think that the price being a bit higher isn't asking too much.....

I paid all these money for these animals because I wanted to spread the diversity of corn snakes into Canada more....that means getting some from the US....and since I am getting them from the US, why don't I just get them from the most well known breeders? That is Kathy, Rich and Don (of course there are more out there but just pointing these 3 out.) Now...getting snakes from them is expensive.....so in order to get my investment back (don't even talk about making money back....) selling these snakes at a higher price is actually quite reasonable....

Ryan....I think that one day you and me will need to either call each other or meet each other to compromise a price for these snakes.....otherwise, the market price for these isn't going to be pretty at all....

[reverendsterlin]

hey I'm hoping for a pair of DH sunglow boas and at $1500 USD each I won't sell any offspring below what the market will bear. they used to say the albino boas would drop in price as they were produced but that hasn't happened to the extreme they expected. what ever the market will bear.

[Simon]

Thanks reverendsterlin, I totally understand what you are saying....and I agree with this too. That is why I was trying to make a survery about this and see if anyone thinks that the price is too high.

For the price and shipping of these animals, I would say that it's NOT too much to ask for. There might be others that are willing to sell for a lower price....but then I wouldn't think that many would like to do that.

[CornBall]

agreed we will need to call each other or meet to get these prices right. I to think that the market will be a mess if we don't come to a compromise, and I don't want that to happen as it has in other situations. I don't want the whole lavender/mocha mess that happened in the states happen up here but in a pricing thing (i think you know what i mean).

question: how did you get Rich to send corns to Canada, I can't count the times he has said NO to me, how did you go about this and how much did it cost you??

The rarity on these animals is high here but truthfully you can get them here though it would be a huge pain. But I also see that we should help our fellow Canadian breeders and not have to resort to buying from the states but sometimes it has to be done to get what you want. believe me I have searched Canada for certain morphs and have come up empty handed or a price that's just masive. Seeing as I have changed my plans a few months ago from something I had planned from age 5 (going to university to be a vet) to going to college THIS YEAR, to become a conservation officer my cash flow is very limited and can only afford 1-2 snakes this year (i know it's sad). but my snakes will breed this season and will aid me in aquiring specific morphs which I probally will end up going to the states for. Daytona 2003 will be fun.

I am just a hobbiest right now but breeder next year, only small scale right now, still getting my stock and it will take a while with college knocking this fast. I also think that there are other cornsnake breeders that could lend some input that we have not heard from. I sure would hate to hear to guys got together one day and said this corn will be this price and this morph another and have totally NO say. Though this would probally help money wise, I would hate for other breeders and hobbiests to see me as a complete butt hole for saying this is how it's going to be.

though I still see that we should compromise on pricing so that people (experienced and inexperienced) go to one breeder and purchase all there hatchlings on their table while the guy next to him has his table still full without a sale.

how much did shipping cost you from each of the breeders, Rich, Kathy, Don. Kathy will ship but she said around 200-300, but not sure about the others. how did they get them to you?????

I am not sure how this came out in writing as this has got my mind on over drive thinking alot on what to do. so i hope you get what i think i said. me and computers are not very good together, it probally took me ages to type this.

I hope to hear from you soon

we need to do this in person to get everything out right away, because as i type i think to many things and forget a few things i wanted to say.

-Ryan

[Gillards]

Hey Simon here is Kathy Love's Okeetee, I bouhgt a pair off of Clint Gilders $150.00 can. I would pay more $$$ Every shed they get brighter and brighter!!!!!http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/187lovesokeetee-med.jpg

[Simon]

Gillards,

Trust me. I have been working with Kathy last summer and....all I can say is.....WOW......all her okeetees are the best looking ones out there. I mean I have seen, Rich, Don, Clint, Frank, Mike and many others....but none of them has okeetees like Kathy does. She has one of the very best okeetees around. The adult pair that I will be getting from her will surely produce some nice snakes for me next year. I will try to post a pic of the adults very soon. Then you can decide on what to pay for these beauties. So you would think that $75 dollars for an okeetee from Kathy's Line would be alright yeah?

Ryan,

can you email me your phone number so that the two of us can talk about this sometime soon? I am trying to make a web site for myself and make up a name so that most people can reconize me that way. So other than making up the site and name, I would need to know about the price. You and I have Lavenders, a guy in NB also has them but only a male. So I would think that compromising the price would be very nice.
Right now I have 6 lavenders and which, 4 of them are females and 2 of them are males. So sometime soon (prediction of 2004) I should have a lot of lavenders for sale. I would also assume that in 2004 I would be flooded with the amount of snakes that I have right now.

My collection of snakes has grown to around 90+ snakes and I would consider myself as a breeder. Not quite as big as Kathy, Rich or Don but in a way small scale snake breeder. I do want to make some money back in all this investment that I have put in. So selling the hatchlings is one of the first steps that I have to do. In order to do this, I think that setting up the price is the very most important thing to do. As you have said before, I don't want to be a jerk either. I don't want to be selling a snake for 1000 dollars where other people are only selling them 20 dollars........that would mean that I will not get any business at all. So compromising the price is a must. For other snakes, I would say that the prices could vary a bit, but for the lavenders, I would say that we have to compromise.....because they are way too rare.

Send me your phone number and I'll talk to you on the phone so that we can compromise the price and set it to a market price so no one would be hurt (as you said like the US war....) send your phone number to me at candycanecorn@hotmail.com

Thanks man!!!
Hope to talk to you soon and Gillards hope you can wait for my little okeetees to hatch out next year. I will post a pic of the pair as soon as I have time.

Good Luck and Happy Herping to you all!!

[CornBall]

check your e-mail

-Ryan

[crimsonking]

Seems you guys need a few adult candy canes and lavenders up there. What else is "scarce"? Butters? Snow striped? By 2004 you'll probably be able to get anything you want 'cause someone will fill the demand if you don't. Better get busy. How are you getting shipments these days from the States? I'd be glad to help out if I can. This may sound stupid, but can you drive across the border with snakes? Fed EX?Delta Dash? I've never shipped to Canada, so I don't know. Thanks, Mark

[Simon]

Well Butters, Snow Striped, and a lot of motleys are considered as scarce up here in Canada. Basically a lot of couriers would ship live animals up here....but guess what.....there has to be a lot of paper work to be done prior and after shipping. One of the main thing that has to be done is a check by the vet...which would easily cost 200 dollars Canadian....then the paper work which would be around 100 Canadian, then the shipping cost around another 100 or so. Then there is the customs payment....which would be at lease 100 So shipping from the US to Canada, would need at least 500-600 Canadian or more....so it's super hard getting snakes from the US to Canada.

[crimsonking]

What happens in the case where a person visits the U.S. and comes back? Can he bring snake(s) he bought in the U.S. with him? Just curious 'cause I was going to give away a snake to someone in Daytona, and I would HOPE they could take it back. THX,Mark

[Simon]

I don't really know about this. But then I THINK IMHO.....that bringing along a snake or two across the boarders isn't going to be much problem....as long as it's not in the CITIES list......otherwise it's not a good thing to risk if you don't know what kind of snake it is and if it's in or not the CITIES list.....
check before doing anything like this...

[crimsonking]

Just a corn snake or a Cal. king. Thanks. It sounds like there's a lot of potential market up there!Too damn cold for me!! Are you looking to get something from Bill & Kathy, or Serpenco next week? Unless you've been to the Expo you can't imagine all the stuff. 550 tables this year. Wish y'all could come down.Mark

[Simon]

I'll be getting some corns snakes from Rich, Don, and Kathy
I'll be getting:
From Rich:
1.1 Adult Lavenders
0.1 Candy Cane
1.1 Silver Queen Ghosts

From Don:
1.1 Bloodred
1.1 Bloodred (Amel)
1.1 Bloodred (Pewter)
1.1 Candy Cane
1.1 Orange Candy Cane
1.1 Motley Anery "A" (Hurrician Pattern)

From Kathy:
1.1 Okeetees
maybe
0.1 Candy Cane

Can't make it to the Daytona show because I'll be having an exam on the 19th....which is 60% of my final mark....can't bomb this one.....so can't go.....wanted and planned on going...but now can't.....*sigh*

[SilverTongue]

hehe Don will be at the Houston show in September! :)

[Kate]

I've looked into bringing snakes across the border from the US to Canada (apparently there is a small show in Maine this year and I'm considering going). They aren't CITIES so you don't need a permit. Customs shouldn't have a problem but they are considered to be something you "bought" over there so the limitations on the dollar ammount of what you bring back still applies. Which means you have to have reciepts for each snake, proving how much you paid for them and you can not exceed your "personal amount" of cash spent on products coming back across the border. So if you only went down for the day...you'd only be able to bring 1 or possibly 2 snakes back with you.

Of course, that's the "legal" way to do it! :) just joking!

[Simon]

Hey Katie,

But all the snakes cost only around "100 US" only.....so I guess that it's "legal" right cutoms?
LOL...
a lot of people do that.....make it sound super low priced.....

[Sean_.E.]

Those okeetees ares so bright they almost have that shine like rainbow boas!

I'd pay 60 or 70 bucks for one easily!

[Simon]

Thanks for everyone's suport. I'll try and post a pic of the pair of adult okeetees that I will be getting from Kathy as soon as I get them....

[Joe]

??? question for you simon...if lavenders are $100 dollars US, a piece, how is it a fair price to charge $500 + Canadian to customers up here? in my opinion this an insane price and i feel it unjust and unfair.....

[crimsonking]

Like I said,SOMEONE will fill the demand. There's always a guy willing to make just a few bucks and sell more snakes. Down here it's ridiculous sometimes. Only a few years back,gray-banded kings were well over $100. Now it is easy to find the same snakes for $35.( I sell most of mine for $50.)It will only be 1 or 2 seasons before the lavenders are plentiful enough up there to be "in line" with U.S. prices. IMHO

[Simon]

Well that 500 dollars was just a little test to see how everyone though of the price

The real price I am looking for is around 350- 450
Also....the US price is around $150....plus the exchange rate it's around 250 or so. Getting a $100 Canadian or more than the US economy is because of the supply it has here. Also I do want to make back my shipping cost.....which isn't pretty.......

Yes it might sound a bit crazy, but then it's really hard to tell people that I am paying all these money for the snake and shipping from the US and now, just selling them at a lower price than the US. But from my own opinion, I would think that it's not that pricey...I would think that it's reasonable.

[Kate]

Simon is right about the shipping, that's for sure! I looked into having snakes shipped from the US to here and the prices are insane!

Even within Canada, we pay alot more for shipping between provinces than the US pays for shipping between states.

500$ sounds a little steep but I would certainly pay 350$. It would cost me at least that much to have the same snake shipped to me from the US. Probably more actually

Some of the big breeders in the US are charging 1000$ per pair for their new (well, new this year) morphs and are only selling one or two pairs this year. What's the difference between what their doing and what Simon is talking about doing? It's the newest morph in the area and there are 2 people in Canada doing their best to get them out to us. If we want the "latest" stuff here we're going to have to pay for it.

Sorry for kinda going off on a rant, I didn't really mean to come across as a $#*^& or anything and I hope I didn't o> . I just know if it was me who had the lavenders and went to all the trouble and expense to get them here, I would be offended if people basically told me that I shouldn't have bothered because my snakes weren't worth it.

We corn collectors have it good compared to some other snake species prices! :rolleyes:

[Simon]

Thanks Katie about the support that you have given me and Ryan.

Hope that everyone around isn't too offened by the price that we thought was a good price. Hope you all understand....

Thanks!

[CornBall]

Yes thank you very much for your kind words Katie, lets just hope that they'll go for us this year, fingers crossed!!
Cause you never know what these guys will do next.

See you all at the show in September??, I'll be there

-Ryan

[Simon]

Yes Ryan,

I am 100% sure that I'll be at the show no matter what. I still have to pic up my
1.0 50% Poss Het Caramel Ball Python from Markus Jayne
and
1.2 Salmon Boas from Todd Constable
maybe some more boas and western hognoses

So I'll am sure that I'll be there!

We have our fingers totally crossed and hope that the lavs will breed for us next year and that we will have lots of eggs and hatchlings avaible soon!

[crimsonking]

Good luck guys!

[Katt]

I was down in Daytona just yesterday and saw an adult lav. I dunno, it was one of Rich Z's one and I can say it did not impress me as much as I had hoped with the price tag they have. Pretty snakes, but I think a lot of people will be hard pressed to pay that much for a corn snake. I love corns, myself. Met Kathy Love and got her to sign her book and a business card for me, and talked with her. Frankly when I don't like the prices in Canada, I just wait until I can hit an american show and get what I want, I saw a pair of blood reds go $21 the pair.

~Katt

[crimsonking]

I wonder who got them.....;)

[crimsonking]

By the way a friend and I have what he's dubbed sunrise corns..new stuff. Dan Soderberg got some so you'll be seeing more of them around soon. I forgot to tell you Katt to pick some up. Sorry!

[reverendsterlin]

well I prefer the US prices for sure, but with snakes you have to push for the top market price, heck a normal neonate doubles it's value after just a few months spending bucks on feeders just to get your money back, breeders that hit the market with undercutting prices aren't doing anyone any favors.

[crimsonking]

Only slightly off topic,but does anyone here know what is involved for a U.S. breeder to come to a Canadian show and sell (deliver)their animals? It sounds like there are none that do. Anyone?? Just wondering, Mark

[Katt]

Are you implying Mark that I got said blood reds? Oh no not me!!! Hee hee, weren't they pretty when ya saw them? The male has a white plain belly and the female has orange mottling. I love them and what a great price! That's like $30 CAD! I saw the sunrise corn, I can't remember what the genetics are on them, but I believe they have exceptional colour when they mature. I'd really love some Love stock okeetees, but I was plenty broke at the show, next year I hope to pick up more. No big rush though.

[crimsonking]

Yeah,I might add some new blood to my Oketees too. All I had at the show were the ones you saw- Jasper Co..( Okeetee) X classic corn. Sold out @ $10.-15. ea. I am not a big fan of the lavender corns anyway, so unless I get a few at a ridiculously low price, I'll just have to do with what I've got. There's a lot of different and very nice looking "morphs" popping up each year. My advice is to work on something you can call your own, then charge whatever you like!! ha ha