rattlesnake question

[dunawayeric]

do you guys think that a rattlesnake caught in the wild that is about 4 feet long would eat in captivity..i would like to try next year when i get my permits..

[Gregg M]

Just buy one that is captive already......... I am gonna fire some questions at you so dont get all upset........ Have you ever kept venomous before??? Do you have any experiance with them????? Where do you live????? Is it even leagal to take a rattler from the wild where you live????? Why would you want wild caught when there are hundreds of CBB babies for sale all over the place????? Are you goona buy AV for yourself incase you get bitten???? Do you have all the tools needed to keep a venomous snake???? what kind of cage are you keeping it in???? Will you be keeping it in its own room, modified to prevent escape????? These are just half of the questions I want to ask......

[SCReptiles]

Depends on the type of rattlesnake. A 4 foot canebrake probably will eat, a 4 foot eastern diamond will be difficult to get going. If you are not experienced already, a 4 foot rattler is not a good starting point.

[fatboy]

You're gonna have plenty of people against you on this as you can already tell. What kind are you looking at capturing? I won't give you a bunch of BS, just an answer.

[JoeBradley]

Catch one and see what happens. Let us know how it goes.

[BWSmith]

Catch one and see what happens. Let us know how it goes.
**Shiver** That statement makes my skin crawl.

[SCReptiles]

Don’t listen to Joe. He likes for people to learn the hard way. Don’t even try to grab an adult rattler if you have not worked with hots before. Losing a hand is not the way to learn.

[fatboy]

Listening to people gripe at you on the internet is not a good way to learn either.

[SCReptiles]

I never griped at him. I answered his question!!!!

[fatboy]

That was not aimed directly at you.

[BWSmith]

First of all, in order to get your "permits", I am assuming that training has or will be required. I would never recommend an adult Rattlesnake as a first hot, which I assume it will be since you dont have permits yet. Copperhead is a much better choice.

Many wild caught snakes may be problem feeders in captivity. Particularly large rattlers. As Chucky said, Eastern Diamondbacks can be very difficult. They are specialists hunters, whereas Canebrakes are generalists. Even so, I have still had Canes come in that would only eat chipmunks. Don't forget that they will also have to be wormed. That puts you very close to the sharp end ........... twice.

So it MAY do alright in captivity or it may be a nightmare and even more dangerous endeavor. CB is always better. Besides, it is much more fun to grow a snake up from a baby.

[JoeBradley]

I was not talking about his experience with hots. I answered his question directly which was, "will one caught in the wild eat". Will never know if he does not catch one.

[BWSmith]

That was NOT an answer in any form Joe, it was a suggestion.

[JoeBradley]

In order for you to know if a snake that is brought out of the wild will eat you will have to catch one. Every snake is different.

Is that worded better?

[SCReptiles]

Joe, we’ll be able to tell him more next week. All 3 of us may have a lot more time to hunt. =)

[BWSmith]

What the SC group all got fired? LOL

[JoeBradley]

We are all sweating it out. They are having a house cleaning session here. They think we spend too much time on the internet instead of working.

[fatboy]

Imagine that :) We should know here in the next 2hrs.

[BWSmith]

How many of you work in the same place?
Good Lord.

[dunawayeric]

i have caught many rattlesnakes and copperheads...the snake i would like to keep is a timber rattlesnake...i live in pa..it is legal to keep one on that permit...yes it is going to be in a different house all together and the room is enclosed so it can not escape..i would be putting the capyive snake in a 200 gallon aqarium..any more qustions... if i do get one how long should it be till it eats

[dunawayeric]

also where can i buy some antivenom so that i have it if i get bit

[BWSmith]

Some can go for months without eating
all depends ont he size and health of the snake
I would also recommend against an aquarium, they are not very secure for hots. A custom cage would be much better.

[fatboy]

Neodesha cages are awsome and not too pricy really. Timber shouldn't be that bad to get eating. We have brought in one that ate the day after we caught him. BW all three of us work at the same place and in the same dept.

[Snakesafe]

Well are you still employed??

[fatboy]

So far so good. Most say to buy, but it is not cheap. Call your local hospitals and ask for the pharmacy. See if they have antivenom.

[BWSmith]

You must also get a doctor to sign off on you getting it. For enough treatment for a bed Timber bite, figure AV will run about $10,000-$15,000. Lest we fprget that bad Crotalus bites can run well over $100,000 in hospital bills. observing them int he wild is one thing, keeping them in captivity is a whole other ballgame.

[reverendsterlin]

hrmm? I haven't needed to price Crofab but even at $400 USD(I thought it was cheaper than Wyeth) a vial the 20 vial onhand usually kept would only be $8000, even a boost to 30 vials would only be $12,000. I was under the impression next time I bought I would be spending less, living here, I know I can get it in Juarez Mexico alot cheaper.

[SCReptiles]

CroFab is about $900 vial and the average envenomation will require 20 vials. Yes Eric, that is $18k. My advice is don’t get bit. Especially by a timber. The word on the street is that CroFab is not having great success with timbers or black tails. For a timber and if you can find it Wyeth would be a better bet. However, the best stuff us being produced in Mexico. It is called BioClone, but I am not 100% sure on that spelling. To import it, you will need USDA permits. You can download the applications on our site at www.venomousreptiles.org.

[dunawayeric]

well where is a good place to buy one of them good cages at..and are they pricy...i dont want to spend alot of money. cause i dont even have a snake yet and i dont know if it will even eat.

[Gregg M]

I am not trying to be a ball bag here but from reading everything you have posted so far you clearly should not have a hot snake at this point....... I usually try not to give this speach too much but if you are not prepared to house it and care for it properly then you really should just leave hots alone for a bit....... Save your money and get it proper caging and buy ALL the tools you need...... Any one can go out and hook a rattlesnake in the wild but keeping one in you house is a different story....... No one here will put you down....... It is more like leading you in the right direction so you can keep hots safely........ Venomous snakes are not something you just jump right in and do........ And leave that poor timber in the wild where it belongs....... Believe it or not you taking just one timber can have a huge effect on the wild population....... Especially in the PA/NJ area....... Go out and buy a captive cane....... They are pretty much the same snake.......

[dunawayeric]

i do have the money to buy the right caging..i just want to know what i am doing before i spend the money..the timber is the only snake that really catches my interest...and to me going out and buying one is not the same..just like you told me anyone can go hook a snake...that is the same with buying.. anyone can go buy what they want..

[BWSmith]

i just want to know what i am doing before i spend the money

There is only so much you can learn online. I would really advise training with an experienced handler. Getting the proper caging and handling equipment. And most importantly, getting the right mindset.

the timber is the only snake that really catches my interest
I don't know. Something about that statement does not sit right with me. I have sat here staring at all the you have written, and i get a bad feeling in my gut.


Whatever you do, PLEASE get the proper training, housing, protocol, and equipment. A Timber is well capable of delivering a fatal bite.

[dunawayeric]

i am not trying to make anyone mad...just trying to learn..ad i thank everyone for all the help......if i get one i will have all the proper things i need to handle one...the only thing i dont understand is why my statement about only the timber catches my eye..i have handled about every snake in pa ..and that is my favorite...any thing you dont understand please feel free to ask...

[rhodostom]

dunawayeric,

Ya know, this is only my second post here (i lurk alot), but I really have to agree with what Gregg and BW have said so far.

You stated that:

" the timber is the only snake that really catches my interest..."

I have to ask why? They are basically the same as canebrakes as was stated previously. They can be easy to get feeding, but they can also be difficult. My mentor kept a rescue animal that literally did not eat for 2 years. (It's fine now.) Are you prepared to deal with that?

Also, if you do catch one, remember they are getting ready to brumate now. Don't expect a fresh WC adult to eat much this late in the season. Are you able to brumate them as it'd do in the wild? Do you have alternate food sources for the spring if it decides not to eat a 'domesticated' mouse?

I'd highly recommend looking at something CB. Personally, I'd go for a copperhead, but they are my favs so I am a bit baised...

Good luck,
Michael B.
rhodostom

[BWSmith]

You finding a good mentor and waiting until at least the Spring to get one would make me feel alot better about this. That gives you enough time to learn much more, prepare housing, learn all the protocols and decide for sure if hots are really something you want to get into.

[Gregg M]

You are totally missing the point...... Are you really getting something out of taking a snake from the wild???? Oh and what will you do if the snake needs to be medicated??? Will you come on this forum and ask how to pin the snake and how to keep the mouth open while administering meds???? You need to be trained in all aspects of keeping venomous snakes........ Just ripping one out of the wild does not qualify you as a hot keeper..... And catching a few in the wild does not make you experianced........ I think you might be better off with a corn snake........ If you cant afford to supply the snake with what it needs and the tools to keep you and others safe from being bitten then you really should not keep venomous snakes....... Why cant you just get it through your head that you are clearly not ready........ Use your head because it could mean your life or the life of another........ Or maybe you dont care if you loose a few fingers or your life....... Like I said I am not trying to be a jerk...... I am just looking out for a fellow herper........ And also trying to protect my hobby........

[dunawayeric]

i am not trying to make anyone mad....and i thank all of you for all the info..but i dont understand why my statement about the timber being about the only snake that catches my eye...i have caught about every snake in pa..and i just like the tiber....where can i buy baby timbers at...in case i ever need to buy them......sorry if i made anyone mad at me..

[rhodostom]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I for one, am not mad at you.

However, catching a snake in the wild to look at/ photograph etc, is very different than keeping one in your house.

It is not a decision to be undertaken lightly, and we are just trying to help you, and protect our hobby that we love.

If you are seriously interested, look for other hot keepers in your area. Get a friend, a mentor, to teach you the ins- and outs of keeping. Post the general area where you live and maybe someone here knows of someone there that can help you.

I have a friend/mentor/now business partner and I can honestly say that I would have been screwed if I would have gotten into hots without his help and guidance. Even now, 4 years later we still help each other when needed and I am still learning from him.

If you are seriously interested in keeping hots in your house, seek out other keepers and learn from them. Yes, I am repeating myself. I feel that strongly about it.

By learning from them, and working with them, you will at the same time learn when and where to get the species you decide to keep.

-Michael B.
rhodostom

[SCReptiles]

Seems no one is giving you the answers that you are looking for. I will, but bear in mind my advise is to learn from a mentor and start with a copperhead as they are more forgiving. Also you need to read Venom 101. I have it in PDF format, if you have an email addy that will transfer over 2 megs, email me at HurSam@CovenantTransport.com and I will send that to you. As for tools. You will need a pair of 40” hooks, set of restraining tubes, 24” forceps, a pinning stick, and a 40” tong. All of these are available at www.tong.com. As for caging. You will need at least a 3’ cage if you intend to house a 4’ snake. The best cage for the price is available thru Neodesha. The 3’ cage is $109.95 and can be ordered on line at www.neodeshacages.com. I can email you a bite protocol, but I can not physically train you from 3 states away. In whatever you do, exercise extreme caution. This species has caused 3 adult human deaths in my area, it is not to be taken lightly. Most of my breeding stock originally came from the wild, so I understand your mindset. I prefer catching mine as well. While the timber is your goal, are you adamantly opposed to catching a copperhead and housing it for a few months prior to moving up to the timber? So long as the snake does not come in contact with other captive snakes, there is no reason you can not return him to the place you got him when you are ready to upgrade. Also, take a long hard look at these photo galleries as you make your decision.
http://www.venomousreptiles.org/libraries/Snakebite%20Photos
http://www.tongs.com/gallery/index.php?G=snakebites

[Snakesafe]

Dude, I haven't been into hots long, but I have been in long enough to know that a timber is not the way to start. My first hot was a pygmy, and my second a copper. I have them out of their cage a total of 1 time each without the person who is mentoring me there...And that person would be Chuck from SCR. Listen to the advise...Start slow and with something that won't cause immense problems should you get bit. These guys have your best interest in mind, and I don't think you have made anyone mad...Read with an open mind....

Best of Luck in whatever you decide

[Gregg M]

Hey dude , I aint mad at you........ Just trying to open your eyes...... Damn Chuck....... Just looking at those photos makes me want to sell off my collection..... Nah just kidding....... I saw worse photos before but those are pretty bad...... Bitis bites are pretty nasty to look at........

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

For the record, it may have been posted, You will have to be permitted ( Rattlesnake hunter's permit) to catch a Timber in the state of PA and that is only allowed from June to July. So if you are stopped by a warden for the snake you catch, hope ya got the paperwork on the right days..
-That is if my memory on the laws are still valid-

As for going with the snake you want, I will have to disagree with everyone saying you should go with a copper or something of the sort.. A copperhead is not the animal you want so you as with alot of people won't properly care for the animal the same as you would if you had the timber; Assumingly.. I know I wouldn't. I don't agree with getting something you do not care about, that's like me getting a monitor because I want a croc, or something along that line.. However, I do agree with being trained, most stuff you learn will be first hand, a book can't tell you everything, nor do you get the full effect from it, ie. The Russells' viper will struggle very hard when it is grasped.. Hold one and you will see that you were most likely not ready for it..
Chuck covered the equipment, though I prefer to build my own cages.. Im a handy man.. Also, have a few friends that will most likely be willing to teach you if you are willing, email me at Palustris3@aol.com and I will get back to you as soon as I get a response from the individuals..
Good luck,
Xain

[shaggybill]

Dunawayeric,
I dont think that anyone here is really going to get incredibly mad at you whatever you do. The reason they try to persuade you to start with something else is because the hobby of keeping venomous snakes is in peril. Too many people with absolutely no experiece with hots go out and buy black mambas and whatever, and they end up getting bit. This of course makes national news, and the hot-keeping hobby takes another blow. And congress moves one step closer to banning the practice alltogether.

Im not saying you dont konw what you are doing, I have no idea, but the guys/girls here are just doing what they can to protect something that they love to do. They do their best to make sure everyone is actually prepared to take this up.