Well...I need some help

[Snip3r]

Well after the two I got yesterday...I went and got another 2, I traded the 2 worm snakes I found for them. I was begining to worry about the health of these leopards. I live in a small redneckish town. No vets around here do fecals...How can I go about doing one myself? Or is there a way to get these little fellas to eat? The two I got today seemed a little more wider, though still very thin. Ive presented crickets to them and most have began eating. One of the newer ones engulfed 4 fairly large crickets this morning. Here are some shots of them. Ive placed them in a 20tall tank. With large course gravelish sand, that way there is no smaller sand to be consumed. The tank is in the 86degree range during the day 78 at night. Im trying to 'save' these 4 little leos so I need any and all tips and such you can give me. I dont want to end up with 4 dead leos, as they are truly beautiful geckos. Here are a few shots:
http://www.angelfire.com/oz/snip3r/new1.jpg
http://www.angelfire.com/oz/snip3r/new2.jpg
http://www.angelfire.com/oz/snip3r/new3.jpg
http://www.angelfire.com/oz/snip3r/new4.jpg
http://www.angelfire.com/oz/snip3r/new5.jpg

[Sean Day]

I would try to return them and spend my money at a reputable breeder. You will spend much money getting them healthy. The person you got them from will also not take proper care of his herps if he thinks that he can sell them in this condition.

Sean

[Sean Day]

Some advice if you are going to keep them - Separate all of them into individual cages. Paper towel as substrate with 2 hides each. You MUST get fecals done and maybe a separate test to check for crypto. Without a fecal you do not no what they have, therefore don't no the proper treatment. Most domestic vets will do fecals if you ask them, I have never had one refuse. If you don't have the space or money to try to rehab them properly try to return them. It will be easier on you in the long run.

[Rebecca]

You need to take them off the sand, that'll only make things worse. I agree in seprating them. But if you got them all from the same breeder they will most likely all have the same thing. Also ask your local vet or the closet one to do a fecal it does cost money but it needs to be done. I wouldn't return the gekco's because they will just die with the orginal owner. If you don't have the time or money to rehab then give them to someone that does have the time and money. Good luck no matter what you decide! They will end up being bvery nice looking leos when they get older.

[JeffT]

Keep them ALL seperate. They are deffinately not healthy at all and keeping them together will make the situations worse. Next , like Sean said,try and get a refund, you were sold some very poor healthed animals. Really I dont see why you would buy some leopards that are that thin and sickly, you should try and buy from respectable breeders.

[JeffT]

Rebecca,

What you just said is a lot like saying, If you dont have the time and money then dump them on someone else and make it their problem. I really disagree with that. He should try and give them back to the guy that sold them to him.

[Sean Day]

Even though they are from the same breeder still separate. Having them together will cause unneeded stress and make the rehab process slower. I may be wrong but I would also think once you are treating them they would just keep reinfecting each other. Give them back if you keep them it is more incentive for that breeder to keep selling unhealthy herps.

[Icefire]

get some shoes box rubber maid they are like 1$ each
put paper towel in, 2 hide (one moist) and water

so all seperated gonna have better chance to survive since
no domination and no risk of getting 2 male

TRY any vet can do fecal exam, it cost 10$

[scott hough]

Last night, I checked the Leo, Crestie and Beardie forums (same as most nights). When I looked at your post, I asked myself how someone could buy geckos that are that skinny. I thought, they probably have crypto or some other parasite. I felt bad that you would probably loose them, and a little frustrated that someone with over 200 posts on ssnakess could think a $20 tank and 2 leos (and i've seen dead leos that looked better) was a good deal.

A few hours ago I checked the leo forum again. This time to find that you have traded some, presumably healthy animals, for more leos that obviously need vet attention. Did you not read the responses to your pictures???

You say you're "trying to 'save' these 4 little leos" yet you can't, or won't, take them to the vet. What are you thinking??? A cheep breeding project? Do you honestly think you should take these nearly dead animals and breed them? Even if you manage to get their weight up, you won’t have proper meds to treat the parasites they likely carry.

Please, do yourself a favour and listen to the people that have so kindly provided recommendations to you.

I wish you good luck with the geckos, and I truly hope that you can learn from this experience.

Leah Hough

[Snip3r]

No I thought that Id try and do something as apprently they weren't being taken care of too good with the previous owner. I would rather have them die with me trying to do something then them die without anyone giving a damn about them. The worm snakes were juss random WC ones, I had no use for them. Not even my younger 11year old brother wanted them. So I figured I would try to get them and maybe help them. I cant call the local vets (as none are open on sundays)and as I stated before I know they wont be able to do fecals, the couldn't even tell me what was wrong with a parrot when he was pulling his feathers out. All they deal with here are horses and dogs. They not even going to know what a leopard gecko is...let alone how to do a fecal. If I can even find a pet store owner who could help me in some way, you better beleive Id bring them. Do you take me as some kind of fool who would spend money on these animals just to watch them die? When I purchased the tank and the first pair of leos I wasn't sure of their condition as Ive never kept one before, when I found that they were indeed sickly and in need of care I figured I would try and help. But it would of been better off to leave them with the owner is what you're saying? I find that absurd if thats the case.

~~Snip3r

[Youkai]

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm in shock here. You pulled two gorgeous, interesting snakes out of the wild, and gave them to the creep who had these geckos?! How is that ANY better than leaving those leos in his care? I find that an incredible disrespect of, firstly, the LIFE of those two snakes, and also your native animals.

How do you know the vet can't do fecals if you don't ask? The materials used are the same as for other animals. Bacteria and parasites that should not be there stand out just the same.

And quite sadly, yes, sometimes it IS better to leave them with the owner. If he had all those animals and they died - he may stop. Not if people keep taking them.

Leave wild caught herps where they are, ESPECIALLY if you don't know what they are or how to care for them. And wow....certainly don't give them to someone who abuses animals!

[Bartman]

yea that was pretty dumb, im gonna have to agree with youkai on that one. Now you just gave that random guy to snakes that had all the freedom in the world and now they will most likely die if he treats his leopards like THAT! You should return the leopards for the 2 snakes and release the snakes back! its aint fair for the snakes, they didnt have no choice....

[Tim and Julie B]

Okay, I'm taking a different approach here. No condemning, no "you should have"s.

Do as has been suggested and seperate each into their own containers. I find that the Sterillite with lock down blue lids to be the best. Give each gecko a small water dish, two small hides(one at each end of the container) and a food dish. In the water dishes pour about one ounce of pedialite into one ounce of water. Make one hide out of a yogurt cup or something similar so that it can be kept humid with damp paer towels. In the food dish add a small amount of calcium and a few mealies and wax worms. Watch each gecko closely and keep record of their progress. Record what they eat and when, as well as how often they drink the pedialite/water solution.

I do understand that you are without access to a proper vet. Is there any close enough to you that you could gather a fecal sample from each gecko and take them in? If not, you may want to try a product called "Rid-worm". Though I don't think it's too good to try medicating without knowing cause, it may be a lst resort for you. Everything I have mentioned here is fairly inexpensive. For the most part when geckos eat, but do not gain weight worms are the culprit. There are many forms, but the rid-worm treats several types.

And remember, when medicating it is normal for reptiles to lose their appetite altogether. That's why I am going to suggest not using the rid-worm until you seperate, feed and study the geckos first. If they eat like pigs, and drink the pedialite/water and do not gain weight, they "probably" have some type of worm.

I see that you have brought these home so try and help them, and that is a kind thing to do. If they were to remain in the pet store they would surley die anyways, or end up going home with some 5 year old and her parents without any idea that they may be ill. Just make sure next time to find a vet first, as it is a very valuble resource. Take care, and good luck,

Julie

[Neo]

i think it's a good thing that u bought them from some one who wouldn't have cared for them well. i noticed that the crickets in the pics are plain.. i would dust them with some calcium. also, there's a lot of talk about your geckos having crypto.. so far every thread i've seen about a gecko being skinny people have been yelling crytpo.. just because a gecko is skinny it doesnt mean it has crypto.. you have to check for a dark spot in the belly and get a fecal done. dont panic. but yeah, i would separate them and put them on paper towels to be on the safe side. if you feel the need to panic it should be on the middle one in the 5th pic.. the rest look like they could easily recover by daily feedings.

[sapphire_moon]

Youkai, and bartman......I agree.......snip3r: You take 2 WILD snakes and give them to someone that can't take care of their own herps....just so you can have the pleasure of having something for cheap! If these leo's looked to be in bad condition with whomever you got them from, then either leave them or BUY them, DON'T trade. I am an animal lover to, and have MANY a time walked away from an animal because it was ill and I knew that I could not properly care for it! You might as well killed those worm snakes! Those WILD worm snakes that have never had to face confinement! I'm sorry if I seem harsh, but it's people like you that really P*SS me off. You get a new creature every week, don't know how to care for it, so you sell or trade it! Uggghhh......I'm done ranting..........get those POOR leo's to a vet, even if you have to drive hours....

[Neo]

you never know though, worm snakes and leos are very different.. maybe this guy knew a lot about worm snakes but not so much bout leos but i do agree that it's a risky situation and wc snakes are better off in the wild unless u know of a specific danger to it like someone's starting construction or something

however, this is a leopard gecko forum so i would like to talk about geckos and not snakes

[JeffT]

If you say you wanted to help those leopard geckos then why would you trade two RECENTLY WILD snakes to a guy that you knew wasn't taking care of the geckos. Really man, How can you have the nerve to take two healthy animals from the wild to get two sick geckos.

[Snip3r]

The fella I got the geckos from is a very good snake breeder as he is a collector. Im positive that he'll take good care of the worm snakes, if I didn't have that trust in him do you think I would endanger the health of another creature?

The leopards were his first set of lizards. He did not know the proper care methods for them as he stated when I called him during lunch this morning. There is a Vet in a town about 45 minutes away who will do fecals at $35 each. SO i am skipping school tomorrow and taking these guys over there. Just to let you guys know. Its not like I was trying to get something cheap, I was trying ot help a lot of people I notice are quick to flame someone for certain doings. Though I find none of it offensive it is aggervating when people speak while only knowing half of the story or speaking without asking questions. I have lost a lot of my respect as a member for a few certain members here for some certain comments. I do not know what any of you think or feel about me but I know how my looks have changed on some of this otherwise wonderful community.

~~Snip3r

[damzookeeper]

I agree with Tim and Julie. Although I don't know if the rid worm will actually work because I have heard lots of people talk of how they have gotten no results with it. But I don't think it hurts to try. Also If you are really stuck your vet should have a list of exotic vets in your area that you can call. I too live in a hick town and have to drive nearly 2 hours to an exotic or herp vet. Anyway, if you can't get to the herp vet maybe he can help your vet with the medication dosage. According to my vet, who is just a basic domestic and farm vet, the biggest problems is knowing what med and how much to give. If your vet can do the fecal and find out what the problem is ei. hook worms, pin worms, maybe he can call an exotic vet with the weight of your geckos and they will give him the dosage and name of meds he needs to treat the animals. It is a long shot but it doesn't hurt to ask. ;)
Good luck with them and please keep us posted. Also email or pm me and i'll give you a leo slurpy reciepy or check through old posts and you will find it in this forum. This should also help get some weight on them, hydrate them, and get some calcium and vitamins in them.

[Siretsap]

First off, he doesn't know what the leopard geckos have. So ridworm might not even work if the leopard geckos have something else. That is why many people will say taht products don't work. The only way to help these leopard geckos is to find out what they have, take a stool sample somewhere and have it checked. If you want to do it yourself, e-mail me, I will tell you what to get to do it, but you better do the test a few times to be sure and you need a good microscope for certain tests.

I would still suggest you get it done by a vet.
Maybe the geckos don't have parasital or viral infection, maybe they have an impaction or could be anything from the temp at
which they were kept to what size of food they ate.

I will not lecture you on why you took some snakes from the wild to give them to him, but I use to want to help all the sick animals I saw in petstores and breeders. Eventually you will see that it doesn't help, cause the space you free up when you take the sick animal is a space where they will put an other one in right after.

[damzookeeper]

Sorry if I made that not understandable. I meant once he knew what they had if it were worms he could try the rid-worm IF the vet could not help with meds AND it is worms.
But if the vet can call another vet who specializes in herps that would be even better as he should be able to get the dosage from this vet.

Also wanted to add, even though many have said it. They should be separated each into their own bin and all feeding and drinking monitored. This is VERY important for recovery, that they are alone and that they have little stress. Plus being alone will illiminate them re infecting each other. Some may recover quicker than others and it they are all together they could just get re infested, if it is worms. If it is crypto that is a hole new story. :(
Also you might want to up the warm side to about 88-90 degrees.

[eyespy]

Don't rule out a vet's knowledge and experience just because he couldn't determine the cause of a bird's feather-plucking. There are a few rare times when there is a medical cause such as mites, skin infection or allergy but most of the time it's a behavioral problem caused by stress. Unless he's actually at your house watching what stresses the bird out, it can be impossible to determine the exact cause. It becomes a job for an animal behaviorist or psychologist, not a vet.

Birds and reptiles share many of the same parasites and respond ot many of the same medications so if there's an experienced avian vet near you, you can be sure that accurate fecals can be obtained.

[Tim and Julie B]

The whole point of suggesting rid-worm was because he didn't know if there was a vet close enough to do fecals. In most cases that I have seen of leos who eat and don't gain weight worms are the culprit, most of which ARE treatable with rid worm. It was made clear that it was a "last resort". And as he made clear he wanted to take them to a vet, but couldn't find one close enough. Now he has and he's getting the fecals done at a rather large expense too. I for one think he's done the right thing by coming here to get advice and choosing to take the leos to the vet. Most people could care less about fecals, let alone advice from peers. He deserves some credit for his actions:D

There's no need to harp on people who come to this forum for advice. And believe me, there is a difference between helping and lecturing. In some places taking animals from the wild is common, and in some it is not. It's not our place to judge everyone based on what we think is right, or what we do ourselves. We're all here to learn, pass on knowlege and meet others with the same love of reptiles.

I'm saying this only to prevent things from getting out of hand. It's happened far too often already. People don't want to come here only to feel as though they should simply never ask another question for fear of having a strip torn off of them. And I direct this at no one in particular, I just felt the direction this is leaning in would be a bad one:D

Julie.

[Snip3r]

Thanks to those who tried to help with advice rather then jumping down my throat about such actions. Ive been trying to beef them up somewhat and they seem very ready to eat...as I noticed last night. So I went out with my father today and picked up a bottle of 'Leopard Gecko Dust Insect & Cricket Balancer" made by T-Rex. The small bottle was 25.99 at a pet store 20 minutes away. They geckos, now each to their own hide box, paper towel as substrate, two hides each, one damp one not. Each have eaten 3 mealworms covered in thisstuff (powder form) so Im finding this a pretty good improvment so far. All seem to be drinking fairly often, at will.

But yes I shall make mistakes, Im only 16...and have been collecting herps for a while with only good intentions. Right now I have:

2 Giant Ameivas
5 Ball Pythons
4 Leopard Geckos
1 Savannah Monitor
1 Guyana Red Tail
12 Rats
37 Mice
1 Red Haired Tarantula

All of my animals (less the geckos) are in top health and reguarly fed with their tanks set up the best I can do. As I said before I take care of and love my pets, I would not want to see any of them die, and I wouldn't let them die without proper care and attention, to think I would seems crazy. And to think my fellow sSnakeSs members would think that I dont care...or trying to help these geckos is wrong baffles me.

But each to their own.
~~Snip3r

[Neo]

looks like ur off to a good rehabilitation start. i would still recommend separate cages not just separate hides. this way there's less competition for food. from the size of them i'd say each of them could live fairly well in a 10 gallon your cage looks big enough to put dividers in.. maybe like cardboard just to separate them if u dont wanna go out and buy each item separately but know that leos can sometimes climb the cardboard.

[Snip3r]

Each is in their own tank...sorry I called it a hide box, I have no idea why...but yea, I went and bought 4 10 gallons after school today for them.

[Snip3r]

Well took them all in for fecals...the vet kinda told me that they didn't look to be very healthy. As I told her I knew. I dropped them off and went over to books a million...waited there for about 3 hours, went back...turns out that they were very VERY underfed with slight dehydration(sp?) she said putting them all together would not be a problem. Just to make sure they had plenti of water..and a lot of food at their hand. Keep the temp in 85 range with plenty of hide space damp and dry. She also mentioned some good vitamins to give'em in which Ill go pick up tomorrow...

[Neo]

thats good that there's no parasite infection. did your vet suggest giving baths to your leos? the leos arent great fans of it but it really helps their skin hydrate. i would still separate them just in case though so u can moniter who ate what.