Just Curious (Venom)

[Kappa]

Hey, I was just wondering if anyone knew which snake had the most potent venom, and which snake delivered the hardest bite. Also have any of you hot keepers ever been tagged? By what? Effects?

[JD@reptiles]

Probably an inland taipan, what do you mean by hardest bite? and i have never been tagged

[Zoe]

I thought it was the brown snake in OZ?

Zoe

[Kappa]

I may be wrong here but a naja has more potent venom then a king cobra? but the king cobra can deliever much more venom in a bite, having a harder bite?

[JD@reptiles]

Originally posted by Zoe
I thought it was the brown snake in OZ?

Zoe


The eastern brown snake in australlia is the second most venomous snake in the world.

[reverendsterlin]

I'll give some numbers
King Cobra; Ophiophagus hannah-
LD50 1.7 yield 350-500 mg
Egyptian Cobra; Naja haje-
LD50 1.15 yield 175-300 mg
Dubois seasnake; Aipysurus duboisi-
LD50 0.044 yield .07 mg
Coastal taipan; Oxyuranus scutellus-
LD50 0.106 yield 120-400 mg
Eastern Brown; Pseudonaja textilis
LD50 0.0365 yield ?
Inland Taipan; Oxyuranus microlepidotus
LD50 0.025 yield 44-110 mg
Gaboon viper; Bitis gabonica
LD50 5.2 yield 450-600 mg
potency and yield are relative as you can see, the sea snake's .04 potency yielding .07 is a much 'safer' bite than the gaboon's 5.2 potency to a bite yielding 600 mg of venom
LD50= mg of venom to kill 50% of a kilo of mice, smaller the LD50 higher the potency of venom.

[Invictus]

Either TLC or Discovery channel did a "Top 10" on venemous snakes a while ago. The Inland Taipan was #1 on their list, and Rev's number up there would definitely agree. I believe the black mamba was #3 behind the brown, but it was a while ago that this show was on.

[Bartman]

I was watching croc hunter :) and he was looking at the mamba's and he said that this was the most poinenous snake but maybe he was talking about only in australia. There was also a show on called 7 deadly strikes and the king cobra was ranked number one because it gives out the most venom, is very fast, and will continuously bite or something like that.

[SCReptiles]

There is not a simple answer to your question. Venom toxicity is messaged by LD50. That is short for lethal dose 50% or the minimum amount of venom that is necessary to kill over half of a certain test group in a lab, usually mice. The problem is, there are variable factors in venom toxicity and the LD50 of a given snake will rise and fall with these factors, so the snake with the lowest LD50 on one day, may not have the lowest LD50 on another day. In most test cases the Hydrophis belcheri (Sea Snake) has the lowest known LD50 and the Oxyuranus microlepidotus (Inland Taipan or Fierce Snake) has the lowest LD50 of all land snakes. As for the hardest bite, in terms of human deaths, the Echis ocellatus (Saw Scale Viper) kills more humans then any other snake. In terms of force it would be the Crotalus adamanteus (Eastern Diamond back) or the Bitis gabonica (Gaboon Viper). Experts disagree on which snake has the fastest strike, however, most will agree that one of these two snakes has the fastest strike in the world. The EDB has been scaled at 34 pounds and the Gaboon at 25 pounds, so either snake would carry tremendous force figuring that weight at the speed they can hit. I have never been bitten. Hope this answers your questions.

[ETET]

Considering LD50, beaked sea snake should be the most venomous and inland taipan should be the most venomous terrestrial snake. If anyone see how fast and powerful a gaboon pound on a rat or something, you never forget .....

ETET

[Mustangrde1]

The LD50 is the best source we have for now . Unfortunately it is based on Mice and not humans, Thus there are many variables that are not concidered.The inland Taipan is concidered the hottest toxin where as the sawscale accounts for more deaths.You need to also take in to concideration the country these bites occur in.Australia home of the taipan is a far wealthier country then say some in africa and the middle east where saw scales are located.Even in Pakisan where Russels are and treatment is realitively known and accessable the russels still kills Hundreds of people a year. There are numerous debates on which venom is hottest to humans but till we can line up several hundred thousand people to be bit we will never have a true to human LD50." Any volunteers lol". As to hardest hitting My bet would go to a Gaboon or possibly a large Puff fallowed for sure by and easter diamond back. Most dangerous is the one I cant see. I have been bit a few times "NEVER" by anything I have worked with or have in my collection.All bites I have had were by animals in the wild I did not see or know were there.

[JD@reptiles]

Originally posted by Bartman
I was watching croc hunter :) and he was looking at the mamba's and he said that this was the most poinenous snake but maybe he was talking about only in australia. There was also a show on called 7 deadly strikes and the king cobra was ranked number one because it gives out the most venom, is very fast, and will continuously bite or something like that.


I saw that show, it was filmed in africa. their is no king cobras in africa. maybe you were thinking the Rinkhals? the snake that got rated for the fastest strike was the puff adder.

[cobraman]

Sorry to do this to you, Scott, The temptation was far greater than even I could resist. What the heck is a "easter diamond back." ??? is this the dreaded rattlesnake that accompanies the easter bunny leaving eggs around each year??? Or do you just not believe in the easter bunny, and instead believe in the easter rattler? This must have been a shock to you to learn as you grew up that there really is no easter rattler.
Peace
Ray

[Mustangrde1]

Ray your the grinch man the grinch.The Easter Rattler I was wanting to bring me cobra eggs this easter or maybe some feeder rabbits. I shall now go cry all day for you crushing my hopes and dreams in the easter rattler.lol

[RepTylE]

mmm chocolate cobra eggs

[snakegal12345]

inland taipan has the most potent venom

[Dr. Bryan Fry]

The inland taipan has numero uno while the eastern brown snake comes in second. While the coastal taipan has less toxic venom than either one, it delivers such massive amounts that I would rate it as the 'hardest hitting' of any snake bite. While the black mamba is also devastating, it is neurotoxic blocking only while the taipans all destroy the blood clotting ability, break down muscle fibre, physically destroy the nerves (in addition to blocking them). SO, if you are lucky enough to survive a bite you may have permanent paralysis or other fun effects such as (as happened to a mate of mine) persistent urinary incontinence for almost a year!!!!!

Cheers
B

[jaybox_reptiles]

well the most dangerous snake is indeed the taipan but the brown snake is more venoumusit just dose not deliver near as much venom in a bit as the taipan so that is y they classify the taipan first and the brown second hope this helps

Jay

[Mustangrde1]

Dr Fry. when your decribing the hardest hitting. I have never seen a Oxyuranus scutellatus hit but have seen plenty of Bitis and Crotalus hits. How does the Oxyuranus compare to them?

After seeing that mpg of your see snake I certainly wouldnt want him comming after me that was great.

Thanks
Scott

[maiden_canada]

i heard steve irwin say the common brown in australia is the most venemous snake in the world, i think when i was at his zoo he had the top 3 most venemous (not dangerous) and the common brown was also #1 there too

[Dr. Bryan Fry]

Another one that you really really don't want to get hit by is the Burmese population of the Russell's viper (Daboia russelli). This particular venom, in addition to the usual massive disruption of blood chemistry, also causes uncontrollable hemorrhage of the pituitary gland resulting in its ultimate destruction. I've had case reports come across my desk showing 40 year old men who are have lost all facial, secondary and pubic hair and are now permanently sterile and impotent. Basically physiologically eight year old boys. A pretty evil fountain of youth!

As for the LD50s, here are the actual rankings. http://www.venomdoc.com/old/LD50/LD50men.html

At the end of the day though, this is all academic, dead is dead. Plenty of snakes are capable of truly devastating envenomations (and I would certainly include any large Bitis in this group and also bites by big Crotalus)

Cheers
B

[shaggybill]

Dr. Bryan, I know that neurotoxic venom causes respiratory failure by destroying the nerves that cause the lungs to breath, but how does it cause cardiac arrest?(when it does so) Am I right by assuming that the venom interferes with the electric pulses that cause the heart to beat?

[Dr. Bryan Fry]

Some venoms do. The black mamba venom includes a toxin that deliberately targets the vagus nerve of the heart (which is the hearts 'pacemaker').

Cheers
B

[shaggybill]

I have to say, I am fascinated by venom and the research of it. If I ever visit Australia, I'll have to come visit you and watch you work.

(Dont worry, the chances of me visiting Australia are quite slim indeed)

:)

[Dr. Bryan Fry]

No worries.

All the best
B