new to hots

[johnnyjohnjon]

I will be getting a dusky pigmy rattlesnake on friday, and I can't seem to find many caresheets on the web anywhere. I have heard that room temps are fine, will I need a basking light? or just a heat pad? now I want to set up a naturalistic enviroment for it. I was thinking some sand mixed with reti bark, and then a handfull of pine needles on top of that. then build a rock terrace thing, fro a hide and a large water dish for soaking. now is the pygmy more venomous than a copperhead? and I will be using a 55 gallon tank that will be two feet high, have a locking screen lid, and I will use tongs to clean the cage. along with thick leather gloves. now if there is anything I am forgeting please let me know thanks. and I don't need a lecture trying to talk me out of it... I am ready for this. and is there a better starter species than a pygmy? thanks for all the help. I will also have a snake bite kit ready and there is a hospital less than a mile away from my house and I have checked and they do have anti venom for this species.. thanks again john

[Mustangrde1]

Johny. Dont use the pine needles. If you want natural looks to it i would just go collect some leaf litter off your yard and wash it in a pillow case and then dry it on low in the dryer, it does work and cleans off most parasites as to their requirements.I keep my big girl very basic there is a thread with her pic titled { shoestring of pain} One large waterbowl, eco-earth for substrate and a nice rock with plastic plant in it for a hide area.she gets a large mouse or medium rat once every two weeks.Here is one of the best sites on Pygmys on the net or anyplace ive found.
http://www.stetson.edu/artsci/biology/pigpage.shtml

[SCReptiles]

The venom of the pigmy is more toxic then the copper I believe, but they inject a much smaller amount. To the best of my knowledge there are no confirmed deaths from pigmy bites. I would second what Scott said about the bedding. You have to be careful about introducing parasites into the enclosure. I have heard of people micro waving the bedding to assure they are all dead. I just newspaper, so I don’t have to worry about it too much. There is no need to tong your snake. It’s easy to injury such a fragile snake with tongs. Since you have such a large enclosure, I would recommend you use a lock box of some type. You can put the box in the cage and “sweep” the snake into the box with a hook or stick, then use the hook to close the lid. Will be safer for you and less stressful for the snake. I think the research says the pigmy likes temps at about 78 and anything over 85 is stressful. I heat pad/rock on one side will do. The snake requires no sunlight, so he will not need a “basking spot” to be healthy. What type of snake bite kit do you have? If you have the old wal-mart cut and suck kit, quickly throw it out. They are very outdated. Many experts, such as Jim Harrison at the KY reptile zoo say there is no first aid that is helpful, only get to the ER ASAP. I still carry the Sawyer extractor and intend to use it should I ever be bitten, it may remove some venom. Good luck to you. I currently have 8 pigmies, in my building. 7 duskys and one NC red. They are very rewarding and the species that I recommend everyone start with.

[johnnyjohnjon]

ok on anouther forum everyone has about talked me out of it. I mean I am sure that they don't even keep hot snakes but they all freaked out about it. so is a pygmy that hard to keep without getting bit... I figured that small size meant that I could stay a few feet away and be in no danger. also if I used two foot tongs to feed it with I should be in no danger. so what should I expect out of this snake. I know they are fast and quite aggressive. and the lock box is a good idea. I thought that you have to start somewhere and I figured a pygmy would be a good chioce. any other tips ou have would be great.

[unBOAlievable]

Hey Johny,

If you have almost been talked out of it then maybe your not ready to keep one. It comes down to your choice of whether the risk involved is worth the outcome should something happen. Being bitten is a reality even to the safest keeper. To think you never have to be close to the snake is a good concept, but in reality they can become ill, retain eyecaps, or even get mouth infections and veterinarians that work with venomous are hard to find. So it comes down to you to fix the problems. Ask yourself, are you ready to deal with these issues should they develop. If not, are you really being fair to the snake if you are not able to care for it.

If you go ahead and get one anyway, at least search for a seasoned venomous keeper to show you the ropes for your sake and the snakes.

[BWSmith]

You have already gotten alot of good information. I will say that there is no shame in changing our mind. You don't have to "think" that you are ready for hots, you have to "Know" that you are ready (if there ever is such a thing). If you are wavering on the issue, then i would suggest waiting a while longer to really mull it over and come to a solid conclusion.

Room temps is a subjective term. But yes, about 80 on the hot side should do well. DO NOT use a heat rock. A heating pad will work fine, I usually use lights for my heating. I know that ou want it to be a naturalistic terrarium, but I would advise against this at this time. This is your first hot (I am assuming). There is alot to learn and you don't want much in the way of distractions. You should probably be able to use tongs or 24-36" hemos to remove about anything in the cage. Trying to hook a Pyg out ao crevice does not sound like fun to me. So for the time being, I would try to keep it very simple. I keep mine on cypress mulch with a shallow water bowl and a couple hides.

You did not mention hooks. Be sure to have 2 Midwest Ultralight hooks (or equivilent). Why 2? Because Pygs tend not like to be hooked and they can get you doing quite a juggling act. I think we are all assuming that it is an adult. Be sure that this is the case. Baby Pygmies are a dangerous chore.

While the Pygmy is considered sublethal, they still have very powerful venom. It is notorious for causing a tremendous amount of tissue damage often resulting in lost digits.

along with thick leather gloves. now if there is anything I am forgeting
Don't forget to throw away the gloves :D They give a false sense of security. there are no gloves that are snake proof, just snake "resistant". Don't risk a bite for convenience.

Due to potential feeding problems, often being difficult to work with, and their tenacious nature, I would not recommend a Pygmy as a first hot (This coming from someone who went that route personally). As I look back, I really wish that I had started with a copperhead rather than a Pygmy.

[Matt]

Due to potential feeding problems, often being difficult to work with, and their tenacious nature, I would not recommend a Pygmy as a first hot (This coming from someone who went that route personally). As I look back, I really wish that I had started with a copperhead rather than a Pygmy

Having kept both, i would agree 100%
I believe Copperheads to be much easier to work with as a first hot that pygmys.
good luck!

[Gregg M]

I started with a ball pythonXrattlesnake that was het for venomoid....... :D.....LOL

[BWSmith]

Just as a side note.

Babies are a nightmare. They are very tought o get feeding (mainly do to the size and the fact that theyare "programmed" to eat frogs at that size). And I think that they are born with adult fangs LOL Anyone who has had to force feed a baby Pyg can attest that the fangs are the same size as the freaking head! I sway back and forth on whether I even want mine to breed.

[Mustangrde1]

Pigs although small can get to a respecatble size I know of several from 26 to 34 inches and at that size pack a hell of a punch and they as a rule do not ride hooks to nicely.If your heart is dead set on one keep everything as simple and lack of clutter as possible.Get the experiance and knowledge behind you on the habits and behavior before setting up a very elaborate cage for them.they are wonderful animals but just because they are small does not lessen the danger.

[fatboy]

If you're brand new a copper is the way to go. I own 2 pigs and I have one copper. The copper is a good start to learn the different techniques in venomous husbandry. None of the Pigs that I have dealt with ride hooks very well if at all. The only time you'd use tongs inside of an enclosure is to get a water bowl or to close the lock box.

[johnnyjohnjon]

ok so what are the pros and cons for both pygmies and coppers?

[Jungle Jen]

I learned with a very experienced handler before getting my first hot. I definately think experience before aquiring one is very important. I started out with copperheads, and although I don't have experience with pigmy's, I think copperhead is the way to go.
BWSmith is SO right when he said to throw away the gloves. A snakes little hypodermic needle like fangs can go through gloves with ease. I always have hooks in both hands, and only use the tongs for feeding, picking up feces, or handlng the water dish. One of the reasons I have hooks in both hands, is in case something were to fall, or drop, the instinct for me to catch it with my hands is stopped by the fact im holding the hook. Accidents can and do happen, and I try to take every precaution there is, including lock box's. If you do decide to get into hots, I wish you the best of luck!:)

[zero_point_one]

I am in my second year of hot training and have a different tale than most people. I'm learning because my husband is an experienced hot keeper and I need to know. No problems with having them in our home, love them, admire them, wouldn't trade them for the world, but taking my time to learn how to handle them. Education is the key - no matter what kind of snake you have.

While keeping hots, you'll sometimes be thrown into a situation that requires a steady hand and a lot of concentration. Now, you didn't mention having tubes. I had the wonderful experience of giving a 4 foot cottonmouth an injection. My husband tubed her (not exactly easy) while I gave the injection. She bucked at one point and sent the needle flying at my face. Luckily, it only grazed my nose.

I'll say the same thing as everyone else, learn with a seasoned hot keeper. They can teach you the best techniques. You never know when your hot might need medical attention and finding a vet who treats snakes is hard, but try finding one who will treat venomous. Good luck.

[fatboy]

Originally posted by johnnyjohnjon
ok so what are the pros and cons for both pygmies and coppers?
Be more specific on your questions. A pigmy is smaller than a copper, but it is easier to double hook a copper. I had a Pigmy make me look foolish last night cause he just wouldn't ride a hook and if you are in experienced this is a bad thing, you could get nervous and do something foolish. My copper can be tailed or double hooked. I wouldn't recommend tailing if you are new to it though. Much better to learn tailing from an experienced hot keeper. The copper is longer and has a longer strike range but since she is longer you have more snake to work with making it easier on hooks in my opinion. You can email me directly if you would like. I will be at work for the next 7hrs: cambar@covenanttransport.com.