Boid Registery in Canada

[Gary D.]

Would boid keepers in Canada be interested in a free registery service for breeders and keepers (big and small)?


Yes
No
Have apprehesions about security
More information needed

[ReptiZone]

Is that somthing like Gun registration or is it to help us locate breeders and dealers like if I register 4 burms and 6 retic's and later they pass a ban on thows animals are they gona come knocking on my door and take my animals away just cause it was registerd and they know where to find me or dose it have nothing to do with the government

[ReptiZone]

ya but any one can have a regesterd snake and kill it and say it died of natural causes like who would know where we there when it died and if you freeze a reptile and let it thaw B4 you bring it to the vet the otopsy will show heart failer that is a normal way of dieing or they can call it a husbandry error like there is a lop hole every where with out licencing ppl why register animals.

That is like regestering a gun with out having a gun licence you are just asking for trouble.

I understand the whole record thing man I am a freak when it comes to that I know the weight of every one of my boas meals and I weigh there fecals just to see what was retaind and at the end of the year I want to see if it is true that a snake eats 1/2 it's weight in rodents (I am just wierd like that) if ever I would sell any of my animals the sheats go with them.

But to get the government involved just so they know exacly where every reptile in Canada is so if somthing go's down they know where to start knocking. I Don't think so

If you make me pass a test that pouuves that i am certafied to keep my animals then I will regestire them but if you just want to know just for the shear plesure of knowing i don't thing ppl want that kind of privacy intrusion.

Krrc started a thread about stuff like this and I posted that there will be a lot a changes in the reptile world these days.

this is a exclent step to take but learn to crawl B4 you run away wit these Ideas

1 pass a chours
2 get the licence
3 regestir all your animals

That way when $h!t hits the fan and the cops come a knocking you can say ''you have no buissnes removing my animals I have a paper for every one and I am certified to keep them and they are all up to seep no laws have ben broken get the heck out of my house.

If you just regestire you have no proff of your competency and they can walk out with your animals an say you are not fallowing the proper code.

Anyway this just smell fishy thats all

[Gary D.]

First, this has nothing to do with any government at any level. It is more like the AKC. Although the tracking would work much like Vic outlined. This is a breeder's data base. It is 100% private, and 100% voluntary, thus if any municipality or government agency want access, they need a federal court order to seize it. Also I don't believe it is possible to do that without having having first charged a specific individual for a specific, federally indictable offense. Unless Canada as a whole makes owning boids a criminal offense. Even if something as ludicrous as that were to occur, they would not be able to seize my records, but would have to make their own manditory registery and start from scratch much like the gun registery. My records, even then, would be secure and can be destroyed at will.

The purpose of the registery is to promote the captive breeding of boids. Many small breeders and hobbiests produce, acquire or swap some wonderful high quality animals, but without having an established name like the quality professional breeeders, their animals get over looked, or looked upon as second rate. This evens the playing field , by showing the community (note not the world, only registered users) a greater variety of available stock and genetic lineage available from dedicated herpetoculturists.

For breeders and buyers alike, it allows us to track pure bloodlines of imported animals (wild caughts), and also genetic homozygous and herterzygous traits for morph breeders.

The public will also be given access to any animals posted in any classifieds once the site is built, but not any information beyond that. Infact security is enough of a concern for so many, that personal information will not be kept on the web at all. Individuals will have to relay a message through me for a member to contact them unless otherwise requested by the latter member.

Thank you for your questions and concerns. Keep them coming, as they only help me to improve the system before I launch it.

Gary D.

[ReptiZone]

well if it as you specify i see a good oportunaty for the little ppl of this hobby.

The reason I say such thing is because already in canada there is laws in some provinces that we can not have larg boids and other provinces any thing named Boa or Python is out lawed and ther are limits crazy like 2 feet man most colubrids are longer then the laws permit. So now when i see thing's like this i wonder this could be a set up from some person trying to pass some crazy law again we realy need to wahct what we vote for what we say no to cause if we start saing ''YES'' with out reading the fine print we are gone mess our selves up we wont need some lunatic to scare half the world with his 4 foot burm and make the government place a ban.

[Gary D.]

I have good friends who are actively fighting these municipal by laws as we speak. It is my hope that a recognised and respected registery might even help.

[reverendsterlin]

like anything, it could be good or bad. AKC was mentioned as an example, but look at the market on dogs. would my $1000 snake be worth less than someone else's "registered" example? I do think that in some cases we already "track" animals among groups like those whom collect locality specific variaties. I would have to know alot more about the program specifics before I would support it. Does it cost to register, if so what happens to the money? What benifit would a registrant actually get? Would there ever be a possibility of excluding people from registering their animals? Would a member be expected "rat" out unregistered animals? Would it ever become mandatory, if so what would the exact wording of the law be and who would enforce it? Lots of other questions could be asked and depending on the answers I could well say," No thanks, keep your monitoring off my animals."

[Gary D.]

Again I appreciate hearing peoples thoughts and oppinions on this be it for or against. I will try to answer some of the questions you put forth.

Q. would my $1000 snake be worth less than someone else's "registered" example?

A. I don't know, that would be up to the reptile community and the free market. It is not , nor will it ever be my intent to set or drive up animal prices. If a purchaser is willing to spend more on a registered animal, that is up to him. This is no different than people paying more for animals from known reputable breeders.

Q. I do think that in some cases we already "track" animals among groups like those whom collect locality specific variaties

A. To an extent sure, but as of now I have no information on who is breeding pure locailty specific animals in Quebec for example. Perhaps I would be interested in purchasing some of their stock, instead of just what I know is available in Alberta.

Q. Does it cost to register, if so what happens to the money?

A. At his point, there is no plan to charge anyone for the service. As I am taking on the costs fully out of my own pocket, at some point it is forseeable to be too much of a burder if the registry becomes very successful. If that does occur, cost would be minimal (approx $1.00 CDN/animal) to cover expenses such as postage, stationary, web site maintenance, etc. I make a fine living as an electrical contractor, and simply wish to better my hobby as a herpetoculturist.

Q. What benifit would a registrant actually get?

A. Many small breeders and hobbiests produce, acquire or swap some wonderful high quality animals, but without having an established name like the quality professional breeders, their animals get over looked, or looked upon as second rate. This evens the playing field , by showing the community a greater variety of available stock and genetic lineage available from dedicated herpetoculturists.

For breeders and buyers alike, it allows us to track pure bloodlines of imported animals (wild caughts), and also genetic homozygous and herterzygous traits for morph breeders.

In a more concrete sense, I will provide participants with a certificate of registeration and access/information from the registery's database upon request to help further their objectives as a breeder or a keeper.

Q. Would there ever be a possibility of excluding people from registering their animals?

A. YES. The ONLY way a person would be excluded however, is if he/she were shown to be intentionally misrepresenting their animals as something they are not. In which case they would be banned. All keepers and all animals are welcome regardless of known lineage or not, and will be classified accordingly.

Q. Would a member be expected "rat" out unregistered animals?

A. Of course not!!!! This in not a federal registery nor is any of the information contained ever to be submitted to any government agency or municipality. It is completely private for hobbiests by hobbiests. If that were ever to happen I would physically destroy the registry in a heartbeat.

Q. Would it ever become mandatory, if so what would the exact wording of the law be and who would enforce it?

A. This is completely volentary for breeders and keepers who would appreciate and use the service, and the advantages a registry could provide. I personally would fight tooth and nail to prevent any federal involvement. This is a private registry, If the government were to try to legislate anything to such an end it would have no connection with me, and no access to our data banks. As I said before I would destroy it first.


Note* Again, although this meant as a breeder information database, any animal or owner is welcome to participate regardless of the known (or unknown) lineage of their animals.

GD

[reverendsterlin]

well thought out answeres to the questions I posted, couple more though. What is to prevent law enforcement from confiscating any hard drive and pulling database info off it, whether your master or the data a member has on their puter should legislation pass banning one up to all species? Especially for those who keep high end animals, what prevents a thief from hacking the database to locate those same high end animals for theft? Not trying to be soundng negative but I don't trust government nor my fellow man. Damon Salceies cannot even let a person he knows into his facility anymore due to insurance restrictions, every room of his home is alarmed.

[Gary D.]

Sure,

Q. . What is to prevent law enforcement from confiscating any hard drive and pulling database info off it, whether your master or the data a member has on their puter should legislation pass banning one up to all species?

A. The answer to this question is a two part answer, and the second part beleive it or not , is very closely tied to the next question, so It will be answered in more depth there. The first thing to keep authorities away from the data base , is actually our legal system and our charter of rights and freedoms. As I have mentioned in previous posts, authorities cannot seize my records without a subpoena, and to get one they would need evidence supporting the fact that a fellony offense has been comitted. The only way to seize the registery as a whole then would be if keeping biods in general were a federal offense, and I bleieve that, that is far less likely to occur than you might fear. If boids were banned across Ontario or BC, then conceivably owning one would be an offense. They would need a federal warrant to approach me in Alberta to divulge information about you, and not being a federal offense they could not do so.

If federal legislation were to pass, however unlikely, I would simply dismantle the registery as a whole, and render any storrage materials or hardware physically impossible to retreive data from. Heck hard drives are cheep as are CD's destroying one is no big deal.

Q. what prevents a thief from hacking the database to locate those same high end animals for theft?

A. No personal data will ever be kept on line. Each participant will have their data and animals entered and stored on their own individual CDRWs. Therefor hacking will be impossible, likewise recovering any info from a hard drive. The only personal data on line will be there through the specific request of that individual for advertising purposes.

Another note to ponder about the benneffit of a registery service. Edmonton has a ban on pitbulls, and they are classified as dangerous animals. Now the CKC has enough influence to have that ammended to state that a Pitbull terrier registered with the CKC is exempt from this bylaw, and not considdered a dangerous animal. Dou you think if Surrey BC tried to ban Giant Poodles, that when the CKC would show up they would drop their proposal in a heartbeat. A strong registery can have far reaching influence. This is likely the reason that Vic pointed out the UK has done it for their own protection.

[reverendsterlin]

Ok, I probably wouldn't register my own (paranoia runs deep lol) but it sounds to me like something I would support for those that want it. Anyway folks like me would scream the loudest if some unexpected bad things happen, but most of my concerns have been answered with well thought out responses. Thanks Gary