What Snakes have you ever caught in Ontario?

[PaulBar]

Everyone,

Since I was a kid I have searched for snakes here in Toronto and up north in Ontario. I was wondering what snakes the other herpers in the forum had observed in the wild in Ontario.
Of course I catch and release all snakes since I don't believe in keeping wild caught snakes since if you do you are reducing the wild population.

Here's my list;

- Eastern Milk Snakes (dark phase near Fenelon Falls)
- Eastern Garter Snakes (near Fenelon Falls)
(for some reason I haven't seen many Garters in 2002 - I think their wild population must be down recently - perhaps the reduction of the frog population is hurting the garters)
- Redbelly Snakes (near Fenelon Falls)
- Dekay Brown Snakes (in Fenelon and Scarborough)
- Green Grass Snakes (near Fenelon - these guys are very rare I wonder if anyone else has ever caught one of these - they are like a redbelly snake but entirely green - I have only seen one
in the wild in over 20 years of searching for snakes - there is one in the ROM which was collected in the same area Fenelon Falls)

I also find many salamanders - black with yellow spots, black with blue spots. redbacks etc. And of course many painted turtles.

Please let me know which snakes you have found in Ontario.

Regards,

Paul

[snakemann87]

wow nice list, heres mine, LOL
-many garter snakes
-black rat snake(big)
-many salamanders
-many american toads

i think i beat ya.

[Kathy]

I caught a green grass snake about 8-10 years ago. It was up at my cottage (north of kingston) and just happened to see him on the beach. When I let him go in the grass, I lost sight of him almost instantly, they really blend well!

[depressor86]

ive caught a small light brown snake, looked like a milk but i have no idea, it was pretty young
also ive seen what i could have sworn to be a rattler on my street (burlington)

[Jeff Hathaway]

Ontario snake species I've found (in Ontario, alive, in the wild- DOR and captives don't count):

Red-bellied snakes, too many to count, (most recently on my own property here in Orillia)
Brown (Dekay) snakes, tmtc, (in my old backyard in Toronto, and elsewhere)
Ringneck snakes, 2, Kawartha Highlands and Georgian Bay
Smooth Green snake (the correct common name of the 'green grass snake'), 3, Rideau area, Georgian Bay, Montreal River (possibly the most northerly record for the species)
Eastern Garter, including melanistic- too many to count, everywhere
Eastern Milk, tmtc, most of southern Ontario
Northern Water, tmtc, most of southern Ontario
Lake Erie Water, tmtc, Pelee Island
Eastern Hognose, 1, French River
Eastern Fox, tmtc, Pelee Island and Point Pelee
Blue Racer, ~12, Pelee Island
Black Rat, 1, Rideau area
Eastern Massasauga, 1, Georgian Bay

Still need to find: Ribbon, Butler's garter, red-sided garter, queen

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[Jeff Hathaway]

depressor86,

If the little snake you found was uniform brown, perhaps with little black spots (not blotches), it was most likely a brown snake.

The 'rattler' was probably a milk snake- there aren't any rattlesnakes in Burlington (wild ones, anyway- who knows what's in someone's basement!).

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[depressor86]

the little snake was a very light brown with a jungle like pattern
the second, about 4 inches long was darker but very very aggresive. it coiled into a strike position and went after anything it saw move

[Jeff Hathaway]

depressor86,

Can you describe the 'jungle-like' pattern? Brown snakes have not particular pattern. Assuming that it was different from the second snake, a baby northern water is a possibility. They are found in Burlington, usually close to Bronte Creek.

Given the behaviour the second one does sound like a baby milk- they will often strike at anything, but don't mistake that for aggression! They are simply afraid for their lives, and rightly so, since almost everything will eat them at that size. Check out http://www.scisnake.com/animals/ontario_collection.html#milk to see a picture of an eastern milk to compare.

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[Swampwalker]

SNAKES

Eastern Milk Snake, Lampropeltis triangulum triangulum
Northern Red-bellied Snake, Storeria occipitomaculata occipitomaculata
E. Garter Snake, Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
N. Ribbon Snake, Thamnophis sauritus septentionalis
N. Water Snake, Nerodia sipedon insularum
Lake Erie Water Snake, Nerodia sipedon sipedon
N. Brown Snake, Storeria dekayi dekayi
Eastern Fox Snake, Elaphe vulpina gloydi Pelee Island
Blue Racer Coluber, constrictor foxii Pelee Island

TURTLES

Snapping Turtle, Chelydra serpentina serpentina
Midland Painted Turtle, Chrysemys picta marginatta
Blandings Turtle, Emydoidea blandingii
Spotted Turtle, Clemmys Guttata




FROGS

Bullfrog, Rana Catesbeiana
N. Leopard Frog, Rana pipiens
N. Spring Peeper, Pseudacris crucifer crucifer
Gray Tree Frog, Hyla versicolor

The complete list including non-Ontario species can be found at:
http://www.pipcom.com/~jstick/life.html

[Swampwalker]

http://www.pipcom.com/~jstick/milk006.jpg
Young Milk Snake
http://www.pipcom.com/~jstick/milk007.jpg
Young Milk Snake
http://www.pipcom.com/~jstick/milk008.jpg
Adult Milk Snake

http://www.pipcom.com/~jstick/massassauga1.jpg
http://www.pipcom.com/~jstick/massassauga2.jpg
http://www.pipcom.com/~jstick/massassauga3.jpg
Massassauga Rattlesnake

[Xetox]

Only been to ontario once in my life for a day, and I was 5 so I can say I have never caught one herp there :)

Am I the only one from missouri or kansas here?

[Matt]

highlights were eastern hog and eatern massasauga, only seen 1 of each
would like to see a butlers garter, but chances may be getting slimer......I'll try again this year :)

[PaulBar]

Swampwalker,

Thanks for those great pictures of Rattlers and Milk Snakes from Ontario.

Xetox, (member from Kansas City, USA)

I think you actually might be the only one from Missouri or Kansas here. Have you experienced many tornadoes?
I bet u have.

As far as Ontario goes, we have lots of wildlife up here, including many different reptiles.

I think its cool that we have people from all over North America and from the US here at Snakes.com. Despite our stupid Prime Minister and the liberal party cabinet minister gaffs about Americans, 99 % of Canadians really like Americans and the USA.

I know I do.

Cheers,

Paul

[tabastifur]

I can tell you all, that I was with Depressor 86 the day we found the so called "Young Milk Snake" and I can vouch for him and say that I was almost sure it was a rattler also. Some people believe that there are no rattlers in Burlington, but again, this is not true. Thier numbers have diminished a lot, but they are still around. The chances of seeing them are slim to none, but I believe I have. Unfortunately I didn't have the nuts to capture him for further analysis. And I probably won't ever see one again.

-Dan

[Jeff Hathaway]

Dan,

I don't mean to slight either you or Depressor86, but I have had many, many people claim to have seen rattlesnakes that turned out to be milksnakes. Some of these cases involved photos, captured specimens, etc. and one case I know of almost got published in a newspaper (complete with photo of a milk). It is easy to confuse milks, young fox snakes, and even hognose and waters for massasaugas.

I won't say there are no rattlers in Burlington- who knows what lurks in someone's collection there. However, there are no populations of wild rattlesnakes in Burlington, and it appears that there probably never were. As far as we can tell from early records, massasaugas petered out around Hamilton. I would give you better odds of catching an escaped captive rattlesnake in Burlington than a wild specimen.

If you do see another, get a photograph. If it actually is a rattlesnake, don't feel bad about not having 'nuts' or anything else- venomous snakes are best left alone unless you are experienced in dealing with them.

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[tabastifur]

Hey Jeff,

First of all, T(depressor) and I live fairly close to Hamilton in the first place, in fact, I am listed in the hamilton side of our phone book. The habitat we found him in was not a suburban area. We found him on T's street, which is located in the "boons." Literally, there could be 1000 rattlers there and no one would know because it's so far out there, and has such primie habitat. So I feel there was a strong possibily of seeing one. However I do take into account that you seem to know what you are talking about, (which is always nice to hear.) I believe had you seen it yourself, you would agree. But we'll never know of course, because that day has past.

Thanks for listening Jeff,

-Dan

[depressor86]

after looking around at different snakes i doubt it was a rattler or a milk snake, it was probably a fox snake because they coil and rattle their tails. though fox snakes live more north than burlington, its the only snake that looks like what i saw and acts that aggresive.

i live in a heavily forested area with a creek across the road. theres a huge section of untouched forest at the end of my street and its perfect for looking for snakes.

guess we were both wrong ;)

also ive looked at the milksnake pictures, really dont think it was one.

[Jeff Hathaway]

Hey depressor,

In my experience (20+ wild fox snakes observed/ captured) fox snakes rarely coil. I've only ever seen neonates adopt a defensive posture that was even close to 'coiling'. They do rattle their tails, as do milks. Milks are more prone to posturing, flattening their heads to look like rattlesnakes, etc. Juvenile milks and foxes are very difficult to distinguish from each other.

Fox snakes are found in SW Ontario and along the eastern coastline of Georgian Bay, but not normally in the Burlington area. One turned up in north Etobicoke a couple of years however, probably an escaped captive.

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[NewLineReptile]

there are rattle snake's in burlington and surrounding area's, this I know becouse my sister's friend is a vet tech that is in a partnership which studies and microchips these snake to study migration. How ever the larger population is found in Fort Erie area, and have been spotted in Missasauga.

[Jeff Hathaway]

burmese python,

I think you need to get more accurate info from your sister's friend. Check with her, and if she still says that they live in Mississauga or Burlington, please ask her to call someone on the Eastern Massasauga Recovery Team (which is the partnership you describe studying the Wainfleet Bog population near Fort Erie). She could just ask me, but then why would she believe me? Apparently no one else does...

Why do people feel the need to defend that species X (especially so when X = rattlesnake) is normally found in an area when it clearly is not?

Wainfleet bog, near Fort Erie, does have a small population, possibly the smallest of the four known discrete populations in Ontario (Ojibway is also a very small population, but they tend to find more there than at Wainfleet). It would be ridiculous to say it is 'larger' than anything. Repeated searches in previous years often turned up no specimens, as in zero! However, some have been found, and they are implanted with microchips for identification. This facilitates mark/ recapture studies, growth data, and aids in identification of specimens removed from the bog by humans. While massasaugas don't 'migrate' in the technical sense, they do have a home range which they move through during their active months. This home range is studied by surgically implanting some individuals with radio transmitters (not microchips) and tracking them with a receiver.

Individual snakes are RARELY found outside the actual limits of the bog. It is incorrect, and irresponisble, to say that they wander through the countryside all the way to Burlington or even Mississauga. The individual home range of a specimen is usually about a square kilometre, meaning they don't typically travel farther than that in their whole lives! The space from Wainfleet to Mississauga is close to the size of the entire range of the Georgian Bay population (the largest by far), through some of the most densely populated and developed land in Canada.

Let me state, clearly, for the record: There are no populations of eastern massasauga rattlesnakes in Burlington, Mississauga, or anywhere else in the greater Toronto area. Individual snakes may turn up from time to time, but these are either released captives or specimens that have been translocated, either intentionally, or not (i.e. the classic 'back of a truck' scenario). I know of one such specimen from Mississauga, and another from Etobicoke (both verified rattlesnakes, 99% of such calls are eastern milks). Here are some other snake sightings or captures from the GTA- taiwan beauty snake (in a shipping container), corn snake & florida garter (from plant shipments), tricolour milksnake, florida watersnake, saw-scaled viper, 2 burmese pythons, boa constrictor (all escaped pets), and an unknown tricoloured snake (at a truck stop). None of these species 'live' in the GTA either!!!

Believe me, I would welcome the news that a population of massasaugas had recolonized part of their former range, anywhere in Ontario (which actually appears not have included Mississauga and Burlington). But please, don't encourage such rumors without checking the facts and making sure that the information is correct. It makes it much harder to get people to realize the truth (including how much help massasaugas need in southern Ontario) and may lead to many harmless snakes being mistakenly killed (okay, that happens anyway...).

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[Nicky]

last year was great me and my cousin found

...3 black rat snakes that were around 4 feet long
...1 northern water snake that was 3 and a bit feet long
.. 1 eastern milk snake that was 1 foot long
..21 eastern garters
..10 red sided garters

but that was last year the snakes at my cottage are still underground hibernating just acouple more months

[Burmies]

Non cause I live in Nova Scotia.

Burmies

[Jeff Hathaway]

Nicky,

Whereabouts is your cottage? It sounds like eastern Ontario, but the red-sided garters are confusing. Red-sideds are only found in northwestern Ontario, near the Manitoba border. Ironically, in Ontario they tend not to have much red, from what I've been told; never seen one in the wild myself. Many easterns have lots of red in them, but they are still T. sirtalis sirtalis.

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!