I hope I saved this boa's life today...

[DLLNP]

Hey Everyone,

So last night I saw someone post a boa on kijiji for sale. It was one of those ads where you could just tell the person had no idea what they were doing... "it's 5 months old and I don't want snakes anymore"...

So I reached out to the seller to learn some more about the animal... her answers to my questions were brutal. Below is a list of husbandry and set up she had for it:

-In an exo terra 24x18x18... glass with screen= horribly dry. Flaked off skin all over the substrate, stuck shed all over the snake

-no supplementary heat or thermometer or hygrometer

- She was feeding it rat fuzzies almost EVERYDAY :angry: up to 4-5 per week

So after some arguing with her I got her to drop her $100 asking price to $60 and to throw in any supplies she had (not much there...). Luckily I had just recently moved my other boa to a larger tub so I had a 17 qt basically ready to go. I set it up (Outside my reptile room), two hides, big bowl of water, paper towel for substrate. I put the snake in the tub (its a little nippy but not too bad) and it went right for the water bowl within 10 mins, soaking different areas of its body (thank god!)

So now I have this mysterious boa. It is unsexed (although I thought I saw a tail spur, I'll take a better look in a couple days), clearly a BCI. Apparently "it carries albino genes"... I'm guessing the person she bought it from told her it is het. albino or something. It is actually quite a nice looking boa, very orange tail, pale body with pink hues. Here is a picture:

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll23/Dillllon/Photo%202016-06-10%209%2045%2023%20PM.jpg

I'll take better pictures in a couple days after it has relaxed.

She claims the boa is 5 months old... which is weird, a boa litter in December?! But it is really small, I'm guessing about 20-22" long and by eye maybe 100-130 grams.... it could have some "dwarf" blood in it I guess.. my Sonoran is 1 year old and not much bigger.

I guess I'll probably start it on hoppers if its been only eating tiny fuzzies, but I'll wait maybe 7-9 days-ish before I feed it?

I guess for now I will just keep it in a quite room, with lots of humidity and hope the stuck shed falls off... The only bad thing is I don't have an extra thermostat so its heat mat is only being regulated by a rheostat.. .hopefully that okay for now.

Also its tail is kinked at the tip... I know that could be a genetic thing but could it be from poor husbandry as well?

Any advice would be great!

Dillonn

[tastybeets]

Good save! Hope you can get him/her to thrive!

[albertagirl]

How did he even survived this long? Wow. So glad you saw the add and not someone else who would have followed her care instructions.

[Andy_G]

Wait a week before you feed it, and don't handle it until it's eaten 3 times in your care. It's definitely big enough for hoppers. Also, presence/prominence of spurs is not a reliable indicator of what sex the snake is. It must be popped or probed by someone experienced. Looks like a typical colombian BCI but who really knows the full background. A december litter is possible as you could breed boas at any time of the year, but it's a bit out of the ordinary. Make sure it's seperate from the rest of your collection as well. We would have to see a pic of the tail to judge a bit better, but as far as kinks go it's usually a genetic deformity or due to injury. Good luck with it and keep us posted.

[bigsnakegirl785]

Hey Everyone,

So last night I saw someone post a boa on kijiji for sale. It was one of those ads where you could just tell the person had no idea what they were doing... "it's 5 months old and I don't want snakes anymore"...

So I reached out to the seller to learn some more about the animal... her answers to my questions were brutal. Below is a list of husbandry and set up she had for it:

-In an exo terra 24x18x18... glass with screen= horribly dry. Flaked off skin all over the substrate, stuck shed all over the snake

-no supplementary heat or thermometer or hygrometer

- She was feeding it rat fuzzies almost EVERYDAY :angry: up to 4-5 per week

So after some arguing with her I got her to drop her $100 asking price to $60 and to throw in any supplies she had (not much there...). Luckily I had just recently moved my other boa to a larger tub so I had a 17 qt basically ready to go. I set it up (Outside my reptile room), two hides, big bowl of water, paper towel for substrate. I put the snake in the tub (its a little nippy but not too bad) and it went right for the water bowl within 10 mins, soaking different areas of its body (thank god!)

So now I have this mysterious boa. It is unsexed (although I thought I saw a tail spur, I'll take a better look in a couple days), clearly a BCI. Apparently "it carries albino genes"... I'm guessing the person she bought it from told her it is het. albino or something. It is actually quite a nice looking boa, very orange tail, pale body with pink hues. Here is a picture:

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll23/Dillllon/Photo%202016-06-10%209%2045%2023%20PM.jpg

I'll take better pictures in a couple days after it has relaxed.

She claims the boa is 5 months old... which is weird, a boa litter in December?! But it is really small, I'm guessing about 20-22" long and by eye maybe 100-130 grams.... it could have some "dwarf" blood in it I guess.. my Sonoran is 1 year old and not much bigger.

I guess I'll probably start it on hoppers if its been only eating tiny fuzzies, but I'll wait maybe 7-9 days-ish before I feed it?

I guess for now I will just keep it in a quite room, with lots of humidity and hope the stuck shed falls off... The only bad thing is I don't have an extra thermostat so its heat mat is only being regulated by a rheostat.. .hopefully that okay for now.

Also its tail is kinked at the tip... I know that could be a genetic thing but could it be from poor husbandry as well?

Any advice would be great!

Dillonn

1) Spurs will not tell you the sex. My sunglow girl (she probed female so 100%) seems to have even bigger spurs than my "adult" male. I'll have to see when she gets older. I haven't checked the anery motley yet but the other 3 all have spurs.

2) That's a small size for a 5 month old but it isn't small enough to say it has dwarf blood. My sunglow was only about 24"-25" and 100-150 grams at that age.

[DLLNP]

How did he even survived this long? Wow. So glad you saw the add and not someone else who would have followed her care instructions.


Ya I have no idea! I'm guessing the previous owner didn't really have it for too long thankfully...but yeah I was worried about that too! I can't believe that people take home animals without doing proper research.

Wait a week before you feed it, and don't handle it until it's eaten 3 times in your care. It's definitely big enough for hoppers. Also, presence/prominence of spurs is not a reliable indicator of what sex the snake is. It must be popped or probed by someone experienced. Looks like a typical colombian BCI but who really knows the full background. A december litter is possible as you could breed boas at any time of the year, but it's a bit out of the ordinary. Make sure it's seperate from the rest of your collection as well. We would have to see a pic of the tail to judge a bit better, but as far as kinks go it's usually a genetic deformity or due to injury. Good luck with it and keep us posted.

Thanks for the advice, I probably wouldn't have waited that long to try handling it so I am glad you told me! I will definitely keep everyone posted and I'll post pictures in a week or so. Ya I am hoping it is just a late litter and not stunted in growth due to poor care or something... but other than being dehydrated the snake seems quite healthy.

[bigsnakegirl785]

Ya I have no idea! I'm guessing the previous owner didn't really have it for too long thankfully...but yeah I was worried about that too! I can't believe that people take home animals without doing proper research.



Thanks for the advice, I probably wouldn't have waited that long to try handling it so I am glad you told me! I will definitely keep everyone posted and I'll post pictures in a week or so. Ya I am hoping it is just a late litter and not stunted in growth due to poor care or something... but other than being dehydrated the snake seems quite healthy.

She isn't stunted. She may be on the smaller side, but she isn't undersized. Just feed her appropriately-sized mice every 7-14 days until she's a year old and she'll be fine. :) For now, hoppers should be fine but it won't be long before she's on adult mice, so make sure you have some on hand! They don't grow nearly as fast during their first year, but they still grow a decent amount! My yearling is 30", and came to me at 20" at a month old. My other yearling came from a breeder and she's 3'-4'. If she's 3' she's on the bigger side of average for her age, if she's 4' she's rather oversized....

Boas do not grow fast at all, so don't be worried about her being "stunted," she doesn't need be huge by her 3rd birthday let alone her second or first.

She's right on track, just feed her properly and she'll grow for you. You should expect 2.5'-3' a year, 3'-4' at 2, 4'-5' at 3 and 6' at 4-6 years of age. They don't get to their truly large sizes until they're 6+ years old.

[DLLNP]

She isn't stunted. She may be on the smaller side, but she isn't undersized. Just feed her appropriately-sized mice every 7-14 days until she's a year old and she'll be fine. :) For now, hoppers should be fine but it won't be long before she's on adult mice, so make sure you have some on hand! They don't grow nearly as fast during their first year, but they still grow a decent amount! My yearling is 30", and came to me at 20" at a month old. My other yearling came from a breeder and she's 3'-4'. If she's 3' she's on the bigger side of average for her age, if she's 4' she's rather oversized....

Boas do not grow fast at all, so don't be worried about her being "stunted," she doesn't need be huge by her 3rd birthday let alone her second or first.

She's right on track, just feed her properly and she'll grow for you. You should expect 2.5'-3' a year, 3'-4' at 2, 4'-5' at 3 and 6' at 4-6 years of age. They don't get to their truly large sizes until they're 6+ years old.

Thanks! I just bumped my sonoran boa up to adult mice so I have plenty on hand. And ya I figured I would start with hoppers considering she is only used to eating and digesting (without heat :confused:) small 1-3g meals... hoppers for the next 6-8 feedings should get her used to digesting larger meals.

Thanks for the growth rate info as well. My sonoran just turned a year old and is about 24", 155g but I wasn't sure how that would compare to a mainland/columbian. And I definitely have no problem with them growing nice and slow

[DLLNP]

Also in terms of the stuck shed is the best protocol to just her be and keep the humidity high.... it will all come off in her next shed?

[bigsnakegirl785]

Thanks! I just bumped my sonoran boa up to adult mice so I have plenty on hand. And ya I figured I would start with hoppers considering she is only used to eating and digesting (without heat :confused:) small 1-3g meals... hoppers for the next 6-8 feedings should get her used to digesting larger meals.

Thanks for the growth rate info as well. My sonoran just turned a year old and is about 24", 155g but I wasn't sure how that would compare to a mainland/columbian. And I definitely have no problem with them growing nice and slow

You don't want them eating big meals. For a snake her size, hoppers should not be a small meal. Keep her on hoppers until she's big enough for small adults, however long that takes. It shouldn't take too long for her to grow big enough, however. As babies, you want to see only a small bulge with no scale separation. Don't move her up to small adults until the hoppers leave absolutely no bulge and the small adults only leave a small one. As an adult, you shouldn't be able to see a bulge.

Dwarfs do grow slower, but from what I've seen the difference doesn't really start to show until after their first birthday. Don't worry about her growth so much as making sure you're feeding her properly and her body tone is good, snakes will grow to whatever predetermined size their genes dictate if they live long enough. Underfed snakes will still eventually reach max size if they live long enough, and well fed snakes will reach that size sooner.

[macandchz]

good luck getting her back in shape. a nice rescue story.

[Snakesitter]

Great story, and kudos for taking this mystery snake in!

[DLLNP]

Quick Update before I head to the office for work:

So far the boa is doing great! She has pooped once (not a ton of urates.. but I think that was expected due to her dehydration), and most of her stuck shed has come off with the increased humidity of her new home. So far no signs of illness (knock on wood) or mites (thank god!). I had to pull her out to clean her tub, threw her on the scale and she is 106g... so that "5 month" age estimate from the previous owner must have been pretty accurate actually. I palpated her vent to tail and I'm 90% sure she is a female. Today she looks hungry, it's been about 7-8 days since her last (tiny) meal so tonight I will see if I can get her to take her first hopper...

Here is a better pic, and a good look at the kinked tail. Her skin still seems a bit dull and also wrinkled, I'll have to wait for her to have a proper shed to see her true colours. But as Andy had said, looks like a typical Columbian with potential to be het. albino based off what the previous owner told me:

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll23/Dillllon/Photo%202016-06-16%2011%2002%2031%20AM.jpg

[Albert Clark]

Congrats and job well done. However when you say you palpated her and are 90% sure it is female how are you performing this? I know sex determination is done by "popping" or "probing".

[DLLNP]

Congrats and job well done. However when you say you palpated her and are 90% sure it is female how are you performing this? I know sex determination is done by "popping" or "probing".

Thank you! I'm glad to help her, she's a nice looking snake! Here is a video of how I sexed her, I think it is decently accurate.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ndI-87ObmUQ

[DLLNP]

Not sure if that video post worked... I can see it on my phone but not my computer

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=video&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjU6d61zq_NAhWn44MKHb3pC_UQtwIIJzAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dnd I-87ObmUQ&usg=AFQjCNE7_DrIj9QWioo3-KaNhyQRQgfQXw&sig2=OAabMo7X2Bszmn807i8xVw&bvm=bv.124817099,d.aXo

[Andy_G]

Congrats and job well done. However when you say you palpated her and are 90% sure it is female how are you performing this? I know sex determination is done by "popping" or "probing".

With boa consrrictors you can actually feel the hemipenes if you palpate the vent but one must be very experienced to do this accurately. I don't know if it is possible in any other species to do. Popping and probing for the win, though.

[Snakesitter]

For rainbows, palpitating is the safest and most accurate method.

[DLLNP]

For rainbows, palpitating is the safest and most accurate method.

I had never done it before but at least I have a confirmed male here so I could compare. The "bumps" from the hemipenes are pretty subtle but you can definitely feel them!

[Snakesitter]

^^ Agreed!

[DLLNP]

Alright, so with some intense investigative research I have determined the parents of this boa (benefits of living in a small city)! The mom is a normal bci and the dad is an albino poss het anery I have suspicions of it being a bci/bcc cross). And the litter was from July 2015, so she is 11 months old rather than the assumed 5 months.

Here are photos of the parents.

Here is mom, the breeder called her a normal but what is with that pattern? Seems like there is something more than normal going on here but I could be wrong!

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll23/Dillllon/3B220CBE-E0D7-48F1-AA48-499DE35E9EF3.jpg

And dad, that would be a Kahl rather than sharp right?

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll23/Dillllon/8E4D3B6F-C03A-4777-8117-C684892705FF.jpg

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll23/Dillllon/9BA3EE56-D6CB-4B58-9004-B2F1B04165CE.jpg

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll23/Dillllon/0B937D1C-C9EC-4806-AE71-DE7DE63C886E.jpg

[Andy_G]

In regards to mom the specific abberancies that she shows can happen from time to time with normals and is often polygenetic in nature, meaning no single gene is responsible for it but multiple are, and it can be more accentuated with selective breeding but to a variable degree. Some of these abberancies can also be braught on during developmental stages by temperature fluctuations. There are some established selectively bred lines that throw abberancies, and there are certain abberancies which are more predictible in nature, but that female is a normal. Dad is certainly a kahl albino. Not much evidence of central american bloodlines that really stands out in either of these boas, nor is there any clear evidence of BCC lineage in the mix.

[DLLNP]

Oh ya definitely no CA blood in there! Thanks for the other info about the parents too!

My Bcc cross speculation was actually based off the baby rather than looking at the parents (seeing that the mother was most likely a columbian, it left me with thinking the father might have some bcc). The baby has a few interesting peaked saddles (I know bci's can get these too), but I want to do a proper scale count next shed to see where she falls on that spectrum just purely out f curiosity!

[Andy_G]

The baby you have does not like a BCC cross whatsoever IMO, and unfortunately with crosses a scale count won't usually identify much.

[DLLNP]

The baby you have does not like a BCC cross whatsoever IMO, and unfortunately with crosses a scale count won't usually identify much.

That's great to hear! I'm not a huge fan of when people cross Bci with Bcc!

[Andy_G]

That's great to hear! I'm not a huge fan of when people cross Bci with Bcc!

Most people, myself included, are totally with you there! Some of the morph crosses are extremely nice, but not something I would want to work with myself.

[DLLNP]

So far this girl has been doing fine, eating well, etc. except today I noticed a strange (or at least to me) bowel movement... I looks like urates without poop but also more crystallized than I have seen before? She has fresh water everyday (I see her drinking now and again) and humidity is 65-75%.. so she shouldn't be dehydrated. Does this look usual:

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll23/Dillllon/09A18209-33D1-40B5-9851-000E3488BAAA.jpg

[Andy_G]

Completely normal. You can tell that the paper towel was wet at some point because of the little ripples, so liquid did accompany those urates. The crystals are normal and are actually called urate crystals...it's how these animals retain hydration.

[DLLNP]

Awesome! Thanks Andy!

[PatrickT]

good job, im sure she will be better soon. glad she has a better home now.